DirecTV's New DVR for 2005 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 17 Old 11-29-2004, 01:50 PM - Thread Starter
Newbie
 
fmolina's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: New York
Posts: 14
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
New DVR may have video on demand

By David Lieberman, USA TODAY
NEW YORK Nov 29/2004— DirecTV is preparing to offer a digital video recorder (DVR) service in mid-2005 that could duplicate virtually every feature now available from current partner TiVo, plus provide video on demand similar to what's offered on cable, say executives of the company preparing the software.
About the only TiVo function the new service will not have, they say, is the ability to jump over commercials. That's an unadvertised TiVo feature users can activate with programming instructions widely available on the Internet.

The new service "will be simpler and faster" than TiVo's, says Abe Peled, CEO of NDS Group. His company plans to deliver its DVR software to DirecTV by April.

DirecTV remains tight-lipped about the NDS-powered DVR it will offer. Spokesman Bob Marsocci simply says that DirecTV plans to introduce "an alternate DVR product and service in the first half of next year."

It also won't disclose who's making decoders — the satellite receiver/DVR combo box — equipped for the new DVR service, although South Korea's Humax is known to be one company on the list.

Yet, comments by Peled and other executives about the NDS product offer a preview of what could be one of the key battles in the fast-growing DVR market. These computerlike devices enable users to easily schedule and record TV shows on a hard drive, as well as pause and replay live TV.

Rupert Murdoch is picking the fight. His News Corp. controls both NDS and DirecTV and is eager to see the new DVR service succeed. NDS also provides DirecTV's encryption technology and a DVR service for Murdoch's British Sky Broadcasting satellite service.

But TiVo can't afford to let DirecTV go. More than 61% of TiVo's 2.3 million DVRs belong to DirecTV subscribers who pay an extra $5 a month to get the TiVo service from the No. 1 satellite company. TiVo doesn't have many alternatives: Cable operators and EchoStar's Dish Network offer their own DVRs.

That's one reason TiVo shares fell 11% last week after it reported that 75% of its new subscribers in the third quarter came via DirecTV.

If DirecTV puts its marketing muscle behind NDS, then "TiVo is going to get hurt, obviously," says Vamsi Sistla, director of broadband research at ABI Research.

Peled says that a big selling point for his DVR is in the way it handles pay-per-view (PPV). With TiVo, users must agree to pay for a PPV movie before recording it for subsequent viewing. But the NDS system will enable DirecTV to signal a user's DVR to record several movies, making each available for viewing at any time.

Customers "pay when they watch (the movie), not when they record it," Peled says.

He adds that his system "will be less expensive for DirecTV" than TiVo and that the savings could be passed to consumers. "We are not a consumer brand. We don't own the customer data the way TiVo does. And we don't sell advertising that we send to the box."

TiVo declined to discuss the NDS challenge. But it told analysts last week to beware of what could be "vaporware," unfinished software.

"NDS has delayed their product offering into later next year," TiVo CEO Mike Ramsay said. "I think we have got a fairly clear runway with DirecTV that we certainly want to take advantage of. ... When it is time to compete, we will focus on that, too. And I think we'll do very well."
fmolina is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 17 Old 11-29-2004, 04:19 PM
RZ
Senior Member
 
RZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Staten Island, NY
Posts: 364
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Comments??...

New DVR may have video on demand
By David Lieberman, USA TODAY 11/29/04


NEW YORK — DirecTV is preparing to offer a digital video recorder (DVR) service in mid-2005 that could duplicate virtually every feature now available from current partner TiVo, plus provide video on demand similar to what's offered on cable, say executives of the company preparing the software.

About the only TiVo function the new service will not have, they say, is the ability to jump over commercials. That's an unadvertised TiVo feature users can activate with programming instructions widely available on the Internet.

The new service "will be simpler and faster" than TiVo's, says Abe Peled, CEO of NDS Group. His company plans to deliver its DVR software to DirecTV by April.

DirecTV remains tight-lipped about the NDS-powered DVR it will offer. Spokesman Bob Marsocci simply says that DirecTV plans to introduce "an alternate DVR product and service in the first half of next year."

It also won't disclose who's making decoders — the satellite receiver/DVR combo box — equipped for the new DVR service, although South Korea's Humax is known to be one company on the list.

Yet, comments by Peled and other executives about the NDS product offer a preview of what could be one of the key battles in the fast-growing DVR market. These computerlike devices enable users to easily schedule and record TV shows on a hard drive, as well as pause and replay live TV.

Rupert Murdoch is picking the fight. His News Corp. controls both NDS and DirecTV and is eager to see the new DVR service succeed. NDS also provides DirecTV's encryption technology and a DVR service for Murdoch's British Sky Broadcasting satellite service.

But TiVo can't afford to let DirecTV go. More than 61% of TiVo's 2.3 million DVRs belong to DirecTV subscribers who pay an extra $5 a month to get the TiVo service from the No. 1 satellite company. TiVo doesn't have many alternatives: Cable operators and EchoStar's Dish Network offer their own DVRs.

That's one reason TiVo shares fell 11% last week after it reported that 75% of its new subscribers in the third quarter came via DirecTV.

If DirecTV puts its marketing muscle behind NDS, then "TiVo is going to get hurt, obviously," says Vamsi Sistla, director of broadband research at ABI Research.

Peled says that a big selling point for his DVR is in the way it handles pay-per-view (PPV). With TiVo, users must agree to pay for a PPV movie before recording it for subsequent viewing. But the NDS system will enable DirecTV to signal a user's DVR to record several movies, making each available for viewing at any time.

Customers "pay when they watch (the movie), not when they record it," Peled says.

He adds that his system "will be less expensive for DirecTV" than TiVo and that the savings could be passed to consumers. "We are not a consumer brand. We don't own the customer data the way TiVo does. And we don't sell advertising that we send to the box."

TiVo declined to discuss the NDS challenge. But it told analysts last week to beware of what could be "vaporware," unfinished software.

"NDS has delayed their product offering into later next year," TiVo CEO Mike Ramsay said. "I think we have got a fairly clear runway with DirecTV that we certainly want to take advantage of. ... When it is time to compete, we will focus on that, too. And I think we'll do very well."
RZ is offline  
post #3 of 17 Old 11-29-2004, 04:39 PM
tji
AVS Special Member
 
tji's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,071
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Ain't Rupert great.. Incorporate DVR from another of his companies, rather than sticking with the customer favorite Tivos.

Eliminate the commercial skip feature, so you can't bypass the commercials on his networks.

What "innovations" can we expect from Rupert next?


Tivo needs to get their CableCard HD PVR out as soon as possible. I can't believe they don't have it yet. If the companies won't keep Tivo, go straight to the customers.
tji is offline  
post #4 of 17 Old 11-29-2004, 05:23 PM
Member
 
grodgers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: NJ
Posts: 152
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally posted by RZ
Comments??...

Yep - my comment is"

"It is still vaporware"

I've got D*/TiVo - had it for 18 months. I tried digital cable with Motorola HD/PVR box (DCT-6208) - and then bought RCA DTC-210 box for HD. Oops... :-)

Ordered HR10-250 HD D*/TiVo today, and will drop the nearly-new DTC-210 on EBay.

I can't live without TiVo - and the Motorola software/guide was just pathetic (IMHO) in comparison. YMMV of course.

Gary
grodgers is offline  
post #5 of 17 Old 11-29-2004, 06:32 PM
AVS Special Member
 
jones07's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Phila Pa.
Posts: 4,850
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Rupert Murdoch is starting to do to Tivo what he does best. TiVo CEO Mike Ramsay is putting up a brave face but he knows what coming.

WeÂre doomed. It will never work
jones07 is offline  
post #6 of 17 Old 11-29-2004, 08:13 PM
AVS Special Member
 
bdraw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Tampa FL 33629
Posts: 2,543
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Tivo is not the only one that is sceptical. I will believe it when I see it.

So far other than ReplayTV no other DVR has even come close.

It seems so simple on paper doesn't it NDS?

Ben
How good could it be if it isn't HD?
Engadget HD
bdraw is offline  
post #7 of 17 Old 11-29-2004, 11:56 PM
 
HDHTPC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Silicon Valley Area Posts: 14,303
Posts: 889
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Will it do HD? If not, why mention it in the HDTV recorders forum?
HDHTPC is offline  
post #8 of 17 Old 11-29-2004, 11:58 PM
 
HDHTPC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Silicon Valley Area Posts: 14,303
Posts: 889
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
The articles don't mention any HDTV capability...
HDHTPC is offline  
post #9 of 17 Old 11-30-2004, 12:08 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
rogo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Sequoia, CA
Posts: 30,246
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 190 Post(s)
Liked: 528
"He adds that his system "will be less expensive for DirecTV" than TiVo and that the savings could be passed to consumers."

There isn't any logical reason this is true. In fact, I'd argue that given that Tivo's design has been used in more units than any other PVR to date, it's the least expensive PVR to build -- especially with two tuners -- that exists.

"We are not a consumer brand. We don't own the customer data the way TiVo does. And we don't sell advertising that we send to the box."

Right, and the advertising makes the product less expensive for DirecTV so that's like saying, "Our car costs less to drive because we don't bothered investing in any of that pesky fuel economy."

Mark

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working.
rogo is offline  
post #10 of 17 Old 11-30-2004, 03:19 AM
AVS Special Member
 
jones07's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Phila Pa.
Posts: 4,850
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally posted by rogo
"He adds that his system "will be less expensive for DirecTV" than TiVo and that the savings could be passed to consumers."

"We are not a consumer brand. We don't own the customer data the way TiVo does. And we don't sell advertising that we send to the box."

Mark
And this is how Rupert Murdoch will spin this to joe six-pack consumer. Like Murdoch or hate him the guy is a master. I almost feel sorry for TiVo, That light at the end of the tunnel is a...................well you know the rest

WeÂre doomed. It will never work
jones07 is offline  
post #11 of 17 Old 11-30-2004, 06:34 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Chris Gerhard's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 6,065
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 11
I am a 7.5 year DirecTV subscriber and over 4 years now with the DirecTV TiVo. Surely one of two things has to happen. Either NDS will actually deliver a PVR comparable to TiVo and with a couple of HMO like features that DirecTV has refused to pay TiVo to add or NDS will not be able to come up with a PVR that will make the DirecTV subscribers happy and DirecTV will renew with TiVo or at least allow TiVo to continue to offer a product in competition. I will be very surprised if the NDS PVR is even close but if I am wrong, I will tip my hat to Murdoch. If he tries to force acceptance of an inferior product, he is going to have problems. I plan on using my TiVos with DirecTV for another 5 years minimum, regardless of the NDS product. I have never cared about HMO or video streaming or folders or any of the other must have features that some seem to want. TiVo works remarkably well and nothing else is close for use with DirecTV.

Chris
Chris Gerhard is offline  
post #12 of 17 Old 11-30-2004, 06:44 AM
tji
AVS Special Member
 
tji's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,071
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally posted by rogo
"He adds that his system "will be less expensive for DirecTV" than TiVo and that the savings could be passed to consumers."

There isn't any logical reason this is true. In fact, I'd argue that given that Tivo's design has been used in more units than any other PVR to date, it's the least expensive PVR to build -- especially with two tuners -- that exists.
I'm a Tivo fan, but I was not real impressed with the initial pricing at $1000. I don't see a lot of cost savings being passed on there. I'm not sure if it's Tivo or DirecTV doing the gouging, or maybe both, but the initial box was priced out of the mass market.
tji is offline  
post #13 of 17 Old 12-01-2004, 10:23 AM
PVR
 
PVR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,761
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally posted by fmolina
New DVR may have video on demand

By David Lieberman, USA TODAY
NEW YORK Nov 29/2004— ...

Peled says that a big selling point for his DVR is in the way it handles pay-per-view (PPV). With TiVo, users must agree to pay for a PPV movie before recording it for subsequent viewing. But the NDS system will enable DirecTV to signal a user's DVR to record several movies, making each available for viewing at any time.

Customers "pay when they watch (the movie), not when they record it," Peled says.
I am surprised that no one has commented on the above statement.

They spin it into a benefit, but to me it reads that you will have to pay, and pay again each time you watch the same recorded PPV.

With the current TiVo, my understanding is that you pay once to record it, then you can watch it repeatedly without having to pay again.
PVR is offline  
post #14 of 17 Old 12-01-2004, 10:37 AM
tji
AVS Special Member
 
tji's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,071
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally posted by PVR
I am surprised that no one has commented on the above statement.

They spin it into a benefit, but to me it reads that you will have to pay, and pay again each time you watch the same recorded PPV.

With the current TiVo, my understanding is that you pay once to record it, then you can watch it repeatedly without having to pay again.
Yes, industry players have been talking about cracking down on the length of time you can store PPV movies for a long time. It would not be surprising to see even Tivos with severe limits on how soon after purchase you have to watch the movie and how long it can stay on the hard drive. To me this would make PPV movies effectively useless. I typically set a movie to record around 3AM, then watch it when I have the time - which could be the next evening or weeks later.

I'm sure they can come up with calculations that show this is costing movie makers $45Billion per year, or something ridiculous like they usually come up with. But, to me this seems like they are solving another non-problem, and only angering customers.


Also - that feature is probably only feasible for SD movies. Caching any HD movies would quickly eat up the majority of the PVRs hard drive space. Once they have terabyte drives in these things, it will be more realistic.
tji is offline  
post #15 of 17 Old 12-01-2004, 12:29 PM
AVS Special Member
 
SonomaSearcher's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Petaluma, CA
Posts: 2,632
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally posted by HDHTPC
Will it do HD? If not, why mention it in the HDTV recorders forum?
Good question.

Apparently, the answer is no and I will be moving the thread on that basis.

However, if someone knows differently (not speculation), please let me know.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
SonomaSearcher is offline  
post #16 of 17 Old 12-02-2004, 12:38 PM
AVS Special Member
 
miimura's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Cupertino, CA
Posts: 1,345
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
It looks like DirecTV is enabling a similar feature on the SD DirecTivos too. I just got a special menu item on mine that demos a new feature. It's "Starz VOD". If you subscribe to the Starz Super Pak you can elect to subscribe to the "Starz VOD" and your Tivo will automatically record newly released movies before they show up on the regular Starz schedule.

The way DirecTV controls the software on the Tivos, if they really wanted the new paradigm of record first, pay later if you view, they could implement it on the Tivo platform.

- Mike
miimura is offline  
post #17 of 17 Old 12-02-2004, 06:42 PM
Senior Member
 
Pradeep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Rochester, NY
Posts: 498
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally posted by tji
Yes, industry players have been talking about cracking down on the length of time you can store PPV movies for a long time. It would not be surprising to see even Tivos with severe limits on how soon after purchase you have to watch the movie and how long it can stay on the hard drive. To me this would make PPV movies effectively useless. I typically set a movie to record around 3AM, then watch it when I have the time - which could be the next evening or weeks later.
I believe they are going to use Macrovision technology to do just that with the HD-Tivo next year, in a delightful software upgrade, there were several articles about it.

http://www.cnn.com/2004/TECH/ptech/1....ap/index.html

Problem with these devices that are flexible in software updates is that in the end the thing could turn out to be a very different beast from when you originally bought it.
Pradeep is offline  
Closed Thread Digital Recorders (PVRs) General

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off