DCT6412 III HDMI won't work (sometimes) - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 340 Old 02-26-2006, 05:41 PM - Thread Starter
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I know this has been discussed before - but I can't find an answer by searching.

My DCT6412 Phase III works fine over HDMI to my Sony projector - but if I switch it through my AVR (Denon 4806) I get mostly nothing with an occasional "you don' t have HDCP" error message. My other HDMI sources work fine through the Denon.

I know other have seen similar problems. Anybody found a fix?
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post #2 of 340 Old 03-19-2006, 11:48 AM
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This has been a problem for quite a while. There have been many posts various forums. I am most familiar wiuth in the thread regarding the Pioneer VSX-72 and 74 receivers -- which switch HDMI but not the Moto 6412's. Here's a post from the Pioneer thread that's somewhat informative.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...13#post6245013

It's the not receivers' fault -- has to do with the HDMI/HDCP handshaking being done by the Moto 6412 with a "repeater" device such as a receiver -- Pioeer, Denon, Yamaha -- doesn't matter which.

I am attempting to work with a Comcast engineer who has volunteered to help with this issue. If I get any useful information or results I'll start a new thread on the subject.
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post #3 of 340 Old 03-19-2006, 05:53 PM - Thread Starter
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Through some back channels - I have confirmed that this is Motorola's problem. Apparently they are working on a fix. I was hoping to find out if anyone had found one on their own.
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post #4 of 340 Old 03-19-2006, 08:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Wolfe View Post

Through some back channels - I have confirmed that this is Motorola's problem. Apparently they are working on a fix. I was hoping to find out if anyone had found one on their own.

Sorry, but I have not found a fix on my own. I'd love to hear about one.

Also -- as mentioned in my previous post -- if I get anywhere with the back channels I am trying to work through I'll be sure to post whatever I find out.

Andrew --- please be sure to post if/when you hear anything from your back channels.

Maybe we should just keep this thread alive as the "offical" Moto 6412 HDMI info thread. That way we can have a common spot for any and all info about this major problem area.

Thanks.
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post #5 of 340 Old 03-20-2006, 06:16 PM
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The power of the internet......

Just received my Moto 6412 III and spent forever getting everything 'hooked back up' in my entertainment center only to start configuring my Yamaha 2600 to find a "We don't like HDMI repeaters for HD content" msg.

Thought I'd hop online and see what I could find out and I end up here right out of the shoot googling dct6412 III hdmi


I was excited to get the model with HDMI as my provider's site showed the model with DVI (previous generation) figuring "Oh, this make setup sooo much easier"



Rant.....
Stop making technology the bad guy, it just frustrates, annoys, and vexes Joe Consumer. I love the idea of HDMI! That one simple cable to solve the 'rats nest' that is the wiring situation of my entertainment center. Oh the simplicity of it all.
Only to be CRUSHED by limitations on the technology under the guise of 'protecting content'.
Is it not a joke anyway? Aren't there devices to solve this problem (If not, I'd bet the house there will be)
I sorry for ranting but I'm finally able to get into being and Audio/VideoPhile only to be sullen by the freaking hoops I gotta jump thru, Sheesh....



I'm sure the DVR capabilites for HD content will make it all worthwhile, but man at first blush, I will just appreciate my Replay GUI all the more.

If a solution were to be worked out or otherwise present itself, speculation on how it would get applied? A unit with that Version firmware? a push from the CableCo? USB thumb drive? Is there any precedent for this sort of 'fix'

....I should be enjoying HD content instead of being online, thanks for letting me vent.
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post #6 of 340 Old 03-21-2006, 02:43 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kepy View Post

The power of the internet......



I'm sure the DVR capabilites for HD content will make it all worthwhile, but man at first blush, I will just appreciate my Replay GUI all the more.


Believe me, nobody finds it harder than I do to give up the Replay. I was CTO at Sonicblue when we developed the 4000 and 5000 series. With the 6412, I had to give up commercial skip, networking, and a decent UI - but the improved picture quality trumps everything else.

Anyway - the UI on the 6412 is not nearly as bad as the TV-guide UI on my Sony DVR. It's truly awful.
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post #7 of 340 Old 03-26-2006, 11:44 AM
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I am new to both this forum and the world of avs, but am having the same problems with my DCT6412 III and would be most appreciative if someone out there knew something I could do. After hours on the phone with comcast, the lady told me that hdcp was intentionally disabled on the dct6412 III, and that I am only allowed to use the component outputs... I think she didn't know what she was talking about, they never do.
Please offer some kind words of advice, I have a JVC RX-D702B and a V Vizio P50HDM. I would very much like to use these three items together via HDMI, if anybody knows anything, you will be making my day.
Thanks.
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post #8 of 340 Old 03-26-2006, 03:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by siehead View Post

I am new to both this forum and the world of avs, but am having the same problems with my DCT6412 III and would be most appreciative if someone out there knew something I could do. After hours on the phone with comcast, the lady told me that hdcp was intentionally disabled on the dct6412 III, and that I am only allowed to use the component outputs... I think she didn't know what she was talking about, they never do.
Please offer some kind words of advice, I have a JVC RX-D702B and a V Vizio P50HDM. I would very much like to use these three items together via HDMI, if anybody knows anything, you will be making my day.
Thanks.

As mentioned in previous posts in this thread (and also many other threads -- see the link in post #2 in this thread) this is a general problem. There is no current fix.

The Comcast lady was wrong about HDCP being disabled. If you connect the HDMI from the Moto box to the TV it should display just fine. IF HDCP weren't enabled you wouldn't see anything this way either. I have read the HDCP spec and I believe the problem is that the 6412's HDCP is only enabled for display devices and not for "repeater" devices such as a receiver.

Until Motorola fixes the problem there are only a few things you can do -- none of which is what you really want, but it's all you'll be able to do for now --

1. If you want to switch all video through your receiver you can still use the reciever's HDMI output to your HDTV, except that you will need to use the component output from the Moto 6412 box to your receiver and let the receiver upconvert it to HDMI. This is probably the best option in that all video is going through the receiver and you have just one connection between it and the TV. The only drawback is it doesn't give you pure digital from the cable box to the TV.

2. If you want pure digital from the cable box to the TV via the HDMI output of the Moto 6412 there is no way to plug it into the receiver and have it work. So you will have to plug it directly into your HDTV. If your TV has 2 HDMI inputs you can plug the receiver's HDMI into the other one and then use the TV to switch between the cable box and the receiver for its input source. i.e., use the TV's remote to switch between the TV's HDMI 1 and HDMI 2 inputs depending on whether you want to watch TV or some other video source that's going through the receiver.

3. If your TV only has one HDMI input, and you want to use it for the cable video, then you will need to use component input on the TV to connect the receiver and not use the receiver's HDMI at all. The you would switch the TV input between HDMI and its Component input. I think this is the least desirable option of the 3, but it's your choice.

Obviously since you won't be using the HDMI from the Moto to the receiver you won't be able to use it for audio, so you will also need to connect the optical digital audio from the Moto to the receiver -- unless of course you want to use your TV for audio !!

There may be other options to connect your system -- maybe someone else has a better idea. But since the Moto box's HDMI will not work with a receiver, it's a question of picking the least bad of the options -- given your preferences and other video signal processing needs/options.

BTW -- I am working with a Comcast engineer (via e-mail) who has a contact at Motorola. I'm trying to find out if they are even working on this problem, and if so, when they might have a solution. I'll post to this thread anything I find out.
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post #9 of 340 Old 03-26-2006, 06:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skipsterut View Post

As mentioned in previous posts in this thread (and also many other threads -- see the link in post #2 in this thread) this is a general problem. There is no current fix.

The Comcast lady was wrong about HDCP being disabled. If you connect the HDMI from the Moto box to the TV it should display just fine. IF HDCP weren't enabled you wouldn't see anything this way either. I have read the HDCP spec and I believe the problem is that the 6412's HDCP is only enabled for display devices and not for "repeater" devices such as a receiver.

Until Motorola fixes the problem there are only a few things you can do -- none of which is what you really want, but it's all you'll be able to do for now --

1. If you want to switch all video through your receiver you can still use the reciever's HDMI output to your HDTV, except that you will need to use the component output from the Moto 6412 box to your receiver and let the receiver upconvert it to HDMI. This is probably the best option in that all video is going through the receiver and you have just one connection between it and the TV. The only drawback is it doesn't give you pure digital from the cable box to the TV.

2. If you want pure digital from the cable box to the TV via the HDMI output of the Moto 6412 there is no way to plug it into the receiver and have it work. So you will have to plug it directly into your HDTV. If your TV has 2 HDMI inputs you can plug the receiver's HDMI into the other one and then use the TV to switch between the cable box and the receiver for its input source. i.e., use the TV's remote to switch between the TV's HDMI 1 and HDMI 2 inputs depending on whether you want to watch TV or some other video source that's going through the receiver.

3. If your TV only has one HDMI input, and you want to use it for the cable video, then you will need to use component input on the TV to connect the receiver and not use the receiver's HDMI at all. The you would switch the TV input between HDMI and its Component input. I think this is the least desirable option of the 3, but it's your choice.

Obviously since you won't be using the HDMI from the Moto to the receiver you won't be able to use it for audio, so you will also need to connect the optical digital audio from the Moto to the receiver -- unless of course you want to use your TV for audio !!

There may be other options to connect your system -- maybe someone else has a better idea. But since the Moto box's HDMI will not work with a receiver, it's a question of picking the least bad of the options -- given your preferences and other video signal processing needs/options.

BTW -- I am working with a Comcast engineer (via e-mail) who has a contact at Motorola. I'm trying to find out if they are even working on this problem, and if so, when they might have a solution. I'll post to this thread anything I find out.

how extremely helpful and informative you have been. fortunately my tv does have two hdmi inputs, so I believe I will just run one directly to the tv from the box, and go buy an optical digital audio wire to connect my box to my receiver. so much for fewer wires. Hopefully this is just going to be a temporary workaround. In reality, the I don't notice too much loss when using the component output to my receiver, probably because of JVC's upconversion. Still very depressing though. It is also tough to spend so much time on the phone with people that do not know what your problem is.
Thank you again for your help, and do keep me updated if motorola ever catches on to their shortcomings and does something about it.
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post #10 of 340 Old 03-26-2006, 10:36 PM
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siehead --

Connecting the 6412 directly to your single HDMI input on the TV is OK if you don't have another video source to deal with. But assuming you also have a DVD player, then you might want to think about option 1 and just live with the component output from the 6412 being upconverted to HDMI by the receiver.

To my eye it's difficult to tell the difference between HD via HDMI and HD via component. And with option 1 you not only have the advantage of one common switching point for all your video signals, but also -- if your DVD player happens to have HDMI or DVI (either now or in the near future) -- you will be able to preserve the digital video from that source through to the HDTV.

In any case you will need the optical audio cable for the audio from the 6412. IMHO you don't need to spend a fortune for these (or any other interconnects). I have all Acoustic Research Pro II series (their mid-tier line) and like them very much. Good value IMO. For optical audio I have the PR 181 cables (6 foot).

I got mine online from beachaudio.com and was very pleased wiht both the price and the customer service (quick delivery and low shipping charges). (NOTE: I have no connection with beachaudio.com Just used them to buy my AR interconnects and was very satisfied.)

But before buying one -- call or stop by Comcast and ask if they have one you can have. I have seen other posts where Comcast has provided optical audio cables -- they're not always available but if they are, then take advantage of the freebie. Also -- if you decide to connect the 6412 via component be sure to get the cable from Comcast instead of buying one. They have given me 3 very good quality component cable sets. They come as 5 cables in one run -- 3 for video and 2 for audio. I don't use the audio, since it's easy to just peel off the audio cables and leave the 3 video cables alone.

Good luck. Let us know how you make out.
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post #11 of 340 Old 03-28-2006, 01:40 PM
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Thanks for all the helpful advice, there seem to be many kind people in this forum. My TV has two HDMI inputs, so I might as well use both. I guess now I am just upset with motorola, I understand that this is a new technology and therefore I need to wait out the difficulties, but really, how hard should this have been to predict?
Anyway, thanks again for the help. Hopefully motorola will do something about this problem sometime soon.
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post #12 of 340 Old 03-28-2006, 06:22 PM - Thread Starter
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Just a few followup comments:

1) Comcast gave me a 6' optical (toslink) cable with my 6412

2) I am using the component out from the 6412 and converting to HDMI in my AVR. I have to admit - I can't see the difference.
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post #13 of 340 Old 03-29-2006, 10:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skipsterut View Post

This has been a problem for quite a while. There have been many posts various forums. I am most familiar wiuth in the thread regarding the Pioneer VSX-72 and 74 receivers -- which switch HDMI but not the Moto 6412's. Here's a post from the Pioneer thread that's somewhat informative.

***

It's the not receivers' fault -- has to do with the HDMI/HDCP handshaking being done by the Moto 6412 with a "repeater" device such as a receiver -- Pioeer, Denon, Yamaha -- doesn't matter which.

I am attempting to work with a Comcast engineer who has volunteered to help with this issue. If I get any useful information or results I'll start a new thread on the subject.

Just to confirm what you all already know, a motorola representative got back to me and wrote:

Siehead,

The problem is with HDCP, its copy protection, there is nothing we can do until a new firmware becomes available that can resolve
it, we do not know when it will become available, we have been told it is being worked on. The HDCP protocol "thinks" your receiver
could be a recorder and enacts the copy protection protocol.

If you have any further questions, feel free to reply to us here, or call us 24/7 at 1-877-466-8646. Thank you again for choosing
Motorola and have a nice day.
Charles Dawley
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post #14 of 340 Old 04-03-2006, 09:57 PM
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All,
just so your aware, i too am having the same issue. After some MAJOR ranting to my cable rep and the "mostly" ignorant support at Comcast......

THE FIX .... Well, they have a new unit called the DCT700, which positively reports to fix the issue. But, there are few in production, and is supported in a limited amount of locations.

I apologize if i sound irritated, but this has been pissing me off for awhile, especially after spenidng a total of 7k in gear in hopes to harness the sweetness of pure digital and less cable clutter, among alot of other pains just to find out some fat headed money maker decides to hang the "High Definition" carrot over our faces, makes us feel good for charging us for it, then expects us to compromise for analog, its pure crap, i mean who the hell in this day and age is going to get a High Def cable box without having other equipment and a receiver to enjoy surround sound? Did someone drop the ball on market research? If they want to make it up to the consumer for their dumb @$$ oversights, maybe they should have a STB with DVD built in...

And honestly, im hoping someone with any clout at all from comcast reads these posts to understand truly how pissed off consumers are about all the non-standard standards.... Do they think about the cost of all these components? Cables? all just to find out they dont play together!! ahhhh i feel better, sorry folks
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post #15 of 340 Old 04-05-2006, 11:10 AM
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Originally Posted by meich View Post

All,
just so your aware, i too am having the same issue. After some MAJOR ranting to my cable rep and the "mostly" ignorant support at Comcast......

THE FIX .... Well, they have a new unit called the DCT700, which positively reports to fix the issue. But, there are few in production, and is supported in a limited amount of locations.

meich --

Man-oh-man I sure understand and share your frustration -- as well as all the other posters in this thread. Thanks for sharing what you found out from Comcast.

I did a quick google for "dct700" and there is plenty of info about it. Even though it is an all difital STB, unfortunately it doesn't appear to be a replacement for the dct6400 series (or the dct3400) series DVR's. So I doubt that it will help us much -- even if it were more widely available. Probably need to chalk this up to ignorance on the part of the Comcast person you spoke to.

My back office contact has gone "dark" on me, so I don't really expect to get very far with him. I'm going to try other avenues and I'll report back to this thread if I get any more news one way or the other.

andrew -- Have you gotten any word from your Moto back office contact????
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post #16 of 340 Old 04-05-2006, 07:21 PM
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*sigh* Well as of tonight I am now among the many in this thread experiencing this issue. Fun stuff!

DCT6412 III connected to a Denon AVR-4306 via HDMI passed through to an NEC-HT1100 projector is a no go
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post #17 of 340 Old 04-06-2006, 03:46 PM
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I'm having the same problem as everyone else here with my "DCT6412 III" trying to run it through a Pioneer 74TXVi receiver. I too am in disbelief that it doesn't "just work." At least I tested out the connections before I spent the time an energy running cable through my wall conduit.

Unfortunately, my plasma only has a single HDMI input. So I guess until there is a fix for the "DCT6412 III" box, or I can get my mitts on one of those alleged newer boxes, I am going to have to use the component out from the DVR. Thank goodness [strike]my receiver will do video upconversion from Component to HDMI[/strike] so I'll still be able to run a single HDMI cable to the Plasma.

As problems in the world go, this is not a terribly bad problem to have, but still... Booooo!

P.S. I just asked Motorola about this issue via the contact form on their website. If I learn any additional info that's not already above, I'll paste it in.

P.P.S Oh... and I was wrong above. The Pioneer Elite 74-TXVi will apparently NOT convert the component video signal coming into it to then otput via the HDMI cable. Total bummer. I wouldn't really mind this, but my plasma is across the room from all the components, so cabling through a conduit is less than easy. Motorola has really crapped the sheets on this one...
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post #18 of 340 Old 04-06-2006, 10:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skyeflye View Post

I'm having the same problem as everyone else here with my "DCT6412 III" trying to run it through a Pioneer 74TXVi receiver. ...

... So I guess until there is a fix for the "DCT6412 III" box, or I can get my mitts on one of those alleged newer boxes, ....

As discussed above "alleged" is the operative word. There really is no newer box The dct700 mentioned by the Comcast rep is not even close to the 6412 III in terms of functionality -- even if it did fix the HDMI/HDCP problem -- which it can't since it doesn't even have HDMI output. (see below). So the dct700 is not the answer -- don't hold your breath waiting for one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by skyeflye View Post

P.S. I just asked Motorola about this issue via the contact form on their website. If I learn any additional info that's not already above, I'll paste it in.

That's great. Please let us know what you find out.

I'm also continuing to probe for answers from Comcast/Motorola. Fortunately, my back channel source at Comcast has started to reply to my e-mails (and has even escalated them to the Chief Engineer in my region) -- so maybe I'll have some answers soon. Here are some quotes from e-mails I received re: the specific issue of the dct700 ....

Quote:


Skip --

I am unable to verify that the DCT700 would fix any problem with the HDMI/HDCP issue. Although, the DCT700 only has either an RF/Coax or Composite/Baseband output - it does not have an HDMI output.

http://broadband.motorola.com/consumers/products/dct700/default.asp

The DCT700 is an all digital cable box (it does not have an analog tuner; this is why it is so small), and you are correct that it would not replace a 6412. The 6412 is the DVR box.

Looking at the Motorola website, it looks like they have an all digital HD / DVR (QIP6416) - that does have an HDMI output.

http://broadband.motorola.com/catalo...0408-001-a.pdf

I apologize that I am unable to provide any additional information at this time."

BTW -- I don't think the 6416 does anything different than the 6412 regarding HDMI/HDCP -- it's primary benefit is a 160GB hard drive (vs. 120) -- and Comcast has told me that they will not be using it (in my region at least).

And then there was a follow up e-mail .....

Quote:


Skip,

Please see below, this is from our Director of Engineering (in Utah).

-----Original Message-----
Subject: RE: DCT6412 HDMI/HDCP repreater problems -- one last cry for help

I believe they were referring to the DCT 3412, the ADS DVR it does have the advanced interfaces. The issue is more one of industry standards implementation between consumer devises, I doubt the firmware for the 3412 is very different than the existing DCTs from a 5c flag point of view."


Since it seems pretty clear at this point that there is no technological fix, my next step will be to get answers to the following ---

1. Verify with Motorola that they are aware of the problem.
2. Verify with Motorola that they are working on a solution.
3. Determine an ETA as to when the solution will be available.
4. Establish the means by which the solution would be implemented
(e.g., will a firmware upgrade just be downloaded to existing STB's, OR - would the entire STB need to be exchanged - OR ?)

I'll continue posting to this thread anything I find out.

I ask the same of all other interested parties. Let's use this as the common meeting place to address this issue and get some answers from Comcast/Cox, etc and more importantly -- from Motorola.
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post #19 of 340 Old 04-06-2006, 10:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skyeflye View Post

P.P.S Oh... and I was wrong above. The Pioneer Elite 74-TXVi will apparently NOT convert the component video signal coming into it to then otput via the HDMI cable. Total bummer. I wouldn't really mind this, but my plasma is across the room from all the components, so cabling through a conduit is less than easy. Motorola has really crapped the sheets on this one...

You SHOULD NOT have any problem with the Pio Elite 74 upconverting component video (or any other video source) to HDMI. I have been doing it with a Pio 72 for 6 months. No problem with 4 video sources -- 2 cable boxes (an old Moto 6412 II, a new Moto 6412 III) via component, a Panny DVD player via component and an old JVC VCR via composite -- all upconverted to HDMI OUT with one cable to the HDTV. Must be something wrong with your setup -- or a defective AVR (Probably not)

If you PM me I'll send you my phone number - and do what I can to help. Another option -- I have found the Pio Elite tech support group to be quite good. I have used them a couple of times with good results -- 800-421-1804. Probably would save time to just call them as opposed to exchanging e-mails, etc. But I'm more than happy to help if you want me to.
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post #20 of 340 Old 04-06-2006, 11:03 PM
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Thanks a ton for all your work, skipsterut!

I'm not very optimistic about whatever reply I might receive from Motorola, but I'll post whatever they reply to me in here. Oh, and I gave them the hyperlink directly to this thread in the message I sent to them as evidence that there are obviously many people that are negatively affected by this issue.

I'm really curious as to how any firmware update would be deployed as you are. I assume the cable provider would be able to do it remotely...at least on request, but they probably wouldn't deploy it automatically since it would likely wipe your system (recorded shows, scheduled recordings, favorites, etc.).

I really hope they can fix this...and soon! At least knowing that others are in the same boat makes me feel a little better (sorry though).

Oh wow, just saw the message directly above. Thanks a lot for the offer. Do you mind if I call right now? LOL. That's VERY encouraging that you've gotten it to work on your 72. Thanks again!
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post #21 of 340 Old 04-07-2006, 09:50 AM
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OK, Motorola replied to me. It's not very helpful, but at least it seemed authentic (not a "canned" reply) and it does add a bit more info to the equation.

Here's what I wrote to them:

Quote:
Originally Posted by skyeflye sent this to Motorola View Post

Hello. Does Motorola have any plans to update the firmware on this device so that I can route its HDMI signal out _through_ my Pioneer 74TXVi receiver and then from it to my Plasma screen? There is apparently a problem with the HDCP "handshaking" and the DCT6412 III can not handle negotiating an HDCP flagged signal through an intermediary device. If possible, please provide me with an ETA on when newer firmware for this device will become available that will hopefully resolve this issue. I have found that that this issue continues to affect many, many people (just one recent example of a small forum discussion on this issue: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7444047). We are all really looking forward to a fix for this issue. Thanks for all your hard work.

And here's their reply:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Motorola responded with... View Post

Hello. Thank you for choosing Motorola.

I apologize for the inconvenience for this, but as of right now, they haven't told us when an update will become available. The main problem isn't with us, it's the HD network channels, they're having a time of trying to come up with a universal software implement for this. Have a little patience with this, because the public is demanding this be resolved and they're working on it right now.

If you have any further questions, feel free to reply to us here, or call us 24/7 at 1-877-466-8646. Thank you again for choosing Motorola and have a nice day.
Charles Dawley

So it seems that if it were entirely up to Motorola, this wouldn't be a problem. Motorola makes it sound as if it is either the "movie channels" (or perhaps even more likely, the movie studios...the content owners) that are causing the delay with their chicken-little attitude toward DRM. My current bet is that this probably all has to do with licensing and legal issues. So it's not necessarily just a technical problem.
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post #22 of 340 Old 04-07-2006, 11:55 AM
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Good luck with getting a response from Motorola. My experience is recounted at in the Audioholics thread on HDMI and AVR receivers (link on their front page). Since I can't post the specific URL, here's a copy of my last posting:
************************************************************ ***
The latest, this time from Motorola about the problems with HDMI and AVR receivers. I asked when they (Motorola) would have a fix for Comcast to implement.
****************
Unfortunately, this is proprietary information. We do not have
any information on the updates. You would need to keep in
contact with your provider to find out when an update is available.
Motorola is constantly striving to better their products but
your provider is the best place to keep up with the latest
firmware.

I do apologize for the inconvenience and I hope you have a
pleasant day.

If you have any further questions, please feel free to reply to
this email or call us 24/7 at 1-877-466-8646. Thank you again
for choosing Motorola and have a nice day.

*************

Well, I can't say this message contributed to my having a "nice day."

So Comcast is dependent on Motorola, Motorola treats news of a fix as a trade secret and suggests I ask Comcast....

Bob
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post #23 of 340 Old 04-07-2006, 12:03 PM
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I'm glad I found this thread as I am close to purchasing a Pioneer VSX-72TXV. I have both a DCT6412 II and III. Part of what I want out of the new AVR is the ability to run one wire for video and audio. I'm not interested in going back to component cables. This "issue" certainly puts that goal in jeopardy.

While I understand that the Motorola DVR is the problem, a few questions came to mind as I read through this thread. What is the AVR doing, or not doing, that plays a part in this issue? I currently have a Gefen HDMI switcher that works find with the DVRs and my TV. Does the AVR show that it is getting a signal from the DVR? Dobly Digital at least?

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post #24 of 340 Old 04-07-2006, 12:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ktulu_1 View Post

I'm glad I found this thread as I am close to purchasing a Pioneer VSX-72TXV. I have both a DCT6412 II and III. Part of what I want out of the new AVR is the ability to run one wire for video and audio. I'm not interested in going back to component cables. This "issue" certainly puts that goal in jeopardy.

While I understand that the Motorola DVR is the problem, a few questions came to mind as I read through this thread. What is the AVR doing, or not doing, that plays a part in this issue? I currently have a Gefen HDMI switcher that works find with the DVRs and my TV. Does the AVR show that it is getting a signal from the DVR? Dobly Digital at least?

Until the handshaking problem is fixed (and deployed) you won't be able to accomplish your goal with an AVR (Pioneer or otherwise) in the system. As you can see by the posts above -- and MANY others in other forums -- the issue is well-recognized, but no one has a good answer from either the manufacturers or the cable companies as to if/when they will fix it. It is not clear (at least to me) who even owns the problem. Some info says it's the cable companies that need to implement firmware already provided by the box manufacturers, while other info says it's still being addressed. Here's a link that was just forwarded by someone to a "sticky" forum just recently started by Clint DeBoer at audioholics.com.

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums...ad.php?t=21194

Based on my research and understanding of the basic preoblem I don't agree with everything Clint says, but those are just details. The bottom line is that there is no current solution and we have no idea when there will be.

P.S. Go ahead and buy the Pio 72. It's a great unit. I have one and love it. Have you considered the 74? I don't need the extra 10 wpc, but wish I had the 74's firewire and USB ports for a future HTPC setup I am considering.
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post #25 of 340 Old 04-07-2006, 12:58 PM
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Just to hopefully clear up the potential problems I may have caused with my incorrect messages above. The Pioneer Elite receivers stating with VSX-72 and VSX-74 WILL ABSOLUTELY transmit any incoming video signals on any inputs out through the HDMI output. There is no "upconversion" (resolution modification) involved, just (I assume) a analog-to-digital conversion so the signal will be compatible with the HDMI spec.

What it will NOT do is "downconvert" any signals coming in through the component and HDMI inputs and send that signal out through any of the lesser video outputs. But that's what the manual explicitly says anyway.

I was just having strange software issues with my particular cable box. But it's all good now, and the 74TXVi is all that and a bowl of grits! Thanks, Pioneer!
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post #26 of 340 Old 04-07-2006, 02:08 PM
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Quote:
This Problem lays with the Cable box. It is not an HDCP issue. It has to do with HDMI 1.0 compliance. Neither Scientific Atlanta or Motorola boxes were originally designed to recognize a "REPEATER" (a repeater is a switching device in the HDMI format). Among other things it is able to pick off the audio bitstream from the HDMI signal. [These receivers are] much more than just a switch!


skipsterut, thanks for the info and the link. That post answers my question exactly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by skipsterut View Post

P.S. Go ahead and buy the Pio 72. It's a great unit. I have one and love it. Have you considered the 74? I don't need the extra 10 wpc, but wish I had the 74's firewire and USB ports for a future HTPC setup I am considering.

We'll see about the 72. I might be able to get by until September or so when the new Pio AVR comes out. I don't need the extras on the 74. No iLink devices and my HTPC uses DVI>HDMI and s/pdif. What else can USB and firewire do for my HTPC?

I'm going to keep an eye on this thread and watch see how this all plays out.

Jeff

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post #27 of 340 Old 04-10-2006, 06:32 AM
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I have been searching this forum for the same problem that I am having and this sounds similiar. I have Cox cable and have the Motorola 6416. Initially when I tried to hook up the HDMI to the TV got a message "copy protection has been compromised use component cables" and then a green screen. Now I just get a green screen everytime I try to use the HDMI. I tried a new cable and no help. I tried a different cable box and no help. Everything works fine with cable card and component cables. Tried every variation in the order of powering on cable box and TV. Green screen is all I get.

I am hooking the HDMI directly from the cable box to TV.

Cox cable tells me that they do support HDMI as of Jan this year.

Anyone have any ideas?
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post #28 of 340 Old 04-11-2006, 05:20 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jet757f View Post

I have been searching this forum for the same problem that I am having and this sounds similiar. I have Cox cable and have the Motorola 6416. Initially when I tried to hook up the HDMI to the TV got a message "copy protection has been compromised use component cables" and then a green screen. Now I just get a green screen everytime I try to use the HDMI. I tried a new cable and no help. I tried a different cable box and no help. Everything works fine with cable card and component cables. Tried every variation in the order of powering on cable box and TV. Green screen is all I get.

I am hooking the HDMI directly from the cable box to TV.

Cox cable tells me that they do support HDMI as of Jan this year.

Anyone have any ideas?

This is a different problem. Does your TV have an HDMI input or are you using a DVI adapter? Generally the Motorola works with a direct connection to the TV.
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post #29 of 340 Old 04-14-2006, 10:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jet757f View Post

I have been searching this forum for the same problem that I am having and this sounds similiar. I have Cox cable and have the Motorola 6416. Initially when I tried to hook up the HDMI to the TV got a message "copy protection has been compromised use component cables" and then a green screen. Now I just get a green screen everytime I try to use the HDMI. I tried a new cable and no help. I tried a different cable box and no help. Everything works fine with cable card and component cables. Tried every variation in the order of powering on cable box and TV. Green screen is all I get.

I am hooking the HDMI directly from the cable box to TV.

Cox cable tells me that they do support HDMI as of Jan this year.

Anyone have any ideas?

I just developed the same issue with two Motorola 6412's and a Sony 32 LCD. The HDMI outputs for both 6412's were working fine, and then I added a Monoprice HDMI switch for the two 6412's and a Mac mini. Now all I get is a green screen, even if I go directly from the 6412's to the LCD. Still trying to troubleshoot...
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post #30 of 340 Old 04-14-2006, 11:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patrick415 View Post

I just developed the same issue with two Motorola 6412's and a Sony 32 LCD. The HDMI outputs for both 6412's were working fine, and then I added a Monoprice HDMI switch for the two 6412's and a Mac mini. Now all I get is a green screen, even if I go directly from the 6412's to the LCD. Still trying to troubleshoot...


Are the Motorola 6412's still set to output a 1080i (or 720p) signal? Try changing the output setting to another resolution and see if you still only get green. If not, then switch back to 720p or 1080i and perhaps that will sort of "reset" the HDCP protection. (??) Just a guess, but I suppose it's worth a try. It that doesn't work, then call COmcast and have reset the boxes. Ask them to do a firmware update. It's an extra thing they can do and it won't happen unless you ask (at least that's what a Comcast rep told me when he firmware-updated mine).

Also, just FYI, during the firmware update, there is a stage where the Motorola 6412 displays a zero (0) on it's display. The Comcast rep told me that the zero was supposed to go away after a minute or two and be replaced by a "1". But that never happened during my firmware update. After waiting a few minutes longer than usual, he thought that something may had gone wrong, with the update, so he had me unplug the 6412 and plug it back in, and then turn it on to try tuning some channels. To our surprise, the update had installed fine and all the channels look and sound perfect. So that may happen to anyone else who gets a firmware update as well.

And obviously, the firmware update does NOT solve any of the main HDCP switching problems that this thread is really about.
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