Whither the capacitors in Panasonic recorders? - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #31 of 88 Old 03-25-2011, 04:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pacofortacos View Post

Try just soldering a jumper wire from the cap to the next component - follow the failed trace and see where it goes. They all go somewhere

I agree with this, try and find a component with wires that run through the board and tack a tiny wire to it, maybe use a single strand of a stranded wire.
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post #32 of 88 Old 03-26-2011, 11:36 AM
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I have a old telephone underground cable that has thousands of tiny single strand copper wires in it. Got it in the late 70's and still occasionally dig it out just to snip some jumper wires from to use for fixing broken traces on circuit boards. It's what the factories even sometimes did when they needed to fix something or just didn't have enough room to make all the traces go where needed.
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post #33 of 88 Old 03-28-2011, 09:23 AM
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I have seen this kind of wire on PC boards many times. I think it's mostly from rework though, rarely straight from manufacture.

Luke

Evil is charming and beautiful. It makes you doubt yourself. It asks for one small compromise after another until it whittles you down, and it functions best when no one believes in it.-JOA
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post #34 of 88 Old 04-12-2011, 01:06 PM
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Thank you all for your recommendations.

Before attempting to re-do it, I desoldered "problematic" legs from 2 capacitors, and I made pictures. Removed copper trace and pads are on positions C1412 (left up on the PCB) and C1271 (down middle-right on the PCB). I put red ovals around areas and holes with removed copper traces/pads.

On position C1412, the picture did not go so well. It looks that it's still copper there, but actually, there is an orange plastic board visible around both hole, and the piece of copper trace was removed with a pad to solder capacitor's "+" leg.

I also made a picture of the fuse. It has a small "bump" inside (on the thin "string".)

I wish I was more careful, but it happened.
LL
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post #35 of 88 Old 04-12-2011, 01:21 PM
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I bought schematic diagram online; however, I do not know where to connect (using jump wire) C1412 to bring the connection back to "life" again? Those four resistors (if I am correct with their classification based on their name - R1415, R1414, ...) need to be attached to C1412 somehow. Do they all need to be connected to C1412, or just R1415? And what about a conection to L1451?

For position C1271, should the wire go to C1270 and L1270 using "loop" in the middle of a jump wire around C1271 leg? Would it be all?

I tried to follow that light green paths and "+" line on schematic diagram, but I am not sure whether it is what I should only follow. I never did jump wire, and I am not an expert in this field. I would not want to ruin the PCB more than it was actually damaged.

I marked with red areas where are completely broken/removed copper traces and pads around holes for "+" capacitor's legs.

Is there anyone here able to solve this "mystery" of connection by jump wires in order for me to save the dvd recorder?
Or is there any website that shows similar procedure to follow in similar situation?
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post #36 of 88 Old 04-12-2011, 02:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rekoj View Post

I bought schematic diagram online; however, I do not know where to connect (using jump wire) C1412 to bring the connection back to "life" again? Those four resistors (if I am correct with their classification based on their name - R1415, R1414, ...) need to be attached to C1412 somehow. Do they all need to be connected to C1412, or just R1415? And what about a conection to L1451?

Because the trace between L1451 and R1408 (and the other resistors in parallel) seems destroyed, you need to make a physical wire connection between those components, and include C1412 in the connection. See this picture to show the wire and the 3 connection points.




Quote:
Originally Posted by rekoj View Post

For position C1271, should the wire go to C1270 and L1270 using "loop" in the middle of a jump wire around C1271 leg? Would it be all?

Likewise, because of the damaged trace, you need to make a physical wire connection between D1271 and C1270, and include C1271 in the connection. See this picture to show the wire and the 3 connection points.



Be careful not to apply too much heat to the components.

That which may be known of God is evident within man, for God has shown it to them, so that they are without excuse. (Romans 1:19-20)
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post #37 of 88 Old 04-12-2011, 02:57 PM
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Also use a very thin wire to bridge the contacts, insulated would be best. First tack solder one side then bend wire and solder the other side. If need be you can resolder the first side again once the other side is solid. Your soldering iron should be not much more than 20 watts and have a fine point.
If you don't feel comfortable soldering such small wire or contacts you might be able to have a small repair shop do the soldering for a nominal fee, you don't want to cause any more damage that may be non repairable.
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post #38 of 88 Old 04-12-2011, 11:50 PM
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Thank you tomwil and all you guys for your help. Your pictures and recommendations were great help. With all your recommendations and little help of a more skilled friend with jump wire technique, my dvd recorder is fixed and everything is as it was. After all, I can say, I fixed it again for the 4-th time.

You cannot imagine how happy I was when after putting everything back, I saw the unit to work just few minutes ago.

Thanks again.
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post #39 of 88 Old 04-13-2011, 05:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rekoj View Post
Thank you tomwil and all you guys for your help.
It was actually a pleasure to help. You had provided a description of the problem, clear pictures, and schematics/circuit diagrams to aid in diagnosis.

It really helps when this information is provided, especially when time and resources are scarce. Members who put forth some effort providing details rather than just asking questions usually can expect a more professional response.

It appears you solved your resistor question (yes, any of the parallel resistors could have been used for a connection; sorry I wasn't clear about that), and now have a functioning unit. Congratulations!

That which may be known of God is evident within man, for God has shown it to them, so that they are without excuse. (Romans 1:19-20)
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post #40 of 88 Old 04-13-2011, 10:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rekoj View Post

Thank you tomwil and all you guys for your help. Your pictures and recommendations were great help. With all your recommendations and little help of a more skilled friend with jump wire technique, my dvd recorder is fixed and everything is as it was. After all, I can say, I fixed it again for the 4-th time.

You cannot imagine how happy I was when after putting everything back, I saw the unit to work just few minutes ago.

Thanks again.

I have been following this discussion closely, and am glad it all worked out for you. It is gratifying to know that these things are not magic, and a little know-how and a decent soldering station can make them work properly again. For those who think soldering PC boards is not for the average person, think again, AND apparently we can all ignore the "No User Serviceable Parts Inside" warnings.

Luke

Evil is charming and beautiful. It makes you doubt yourself. It asks for one small compromise after another until it whittles you down, and it functions best when no one believes in it.-JOA
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post #41 of 88 Old 04-14-2011, 06:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomwil View Post

It was actually a pleasure to help. You had provided a description of the problem, clear pictures, and schematics/circuit diagrams to aid in diagnosis.
It really helps when this information is provided, especially when time and resources are scarce. Members who put forth some effort providing details rather than just asking questions usually can expect a more professional response.

As they say: "One picture is better than thousand words.” It applies specifically for situations when a person does not know exact terminology for a specific field. I can follow instructions very well, have my own judgment, but there are times when pictures speak better than words and help is needed even for "obvious things," especially if I never did some particular types of repair before.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Church AV Guy View Post

It is gratifying to know that these things are not magic, and a little know-how and a decent soldering station can make them work properly again. For those who think soldering PC boards is not for the average person, think again, AND apparently we can all ignore the "No User Serviceable Parts Inside" warnings.

Funny, when I was putting back my dvd recorder back to its home theater system (looking for proper connection of some cables for front and back speakers, etc. that are part of this unit), the same sentence “Do not open the unit, there are no user serviceable parts inside.” caught my attention. My own response at that time was: Yeah, sure. If I would believe that, I would be off over $500 until now by paying 4 times $130 flat-fee for each repair to service center in IL in last 4 years (twice replacement of 2 capacitors, once unplugging and plugging cables to dvd burner that were probably loose causing dvd recorder's inability to read and recognize any dvd media at all, and now replacement of capacitors again with jump wiring). And having at least once the contents of HDD wiped out as a part of repair.

It is only frustrating that sometimes unexpected issues come up, and fixing it involves more effort and skills then it seemed to be needed in the first place.

I hope that my pictures and help of all of you guys will encourage more people in similar situation in the future to attempt repairs they would think they were not capable of.
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post #42 of 88 Old 04-18-2011, 12:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rekoj View Post

...Funny, when I was putting back my dvd recorder back to its home theater system the... sentence Do not open the unit, there are no user serviceable parts inside. caught my attention. My own response at that time was: Yeah, sure...

It is only frustrating that sometimes unexpected issues come up, and fixing it involves more effort and skills then it seemed to be needed in the first place.

I hope that my pictures and help of all of you guys will encourage more people in similar situation in the future to attempt repairs they would think they were not capable of.

My feelings exactly. Don't be afraid. Replacing capacitors isn't really rocket science.

Luke

Evil is charming and beautiful. It makes you doubt yourself. It asks for one small compromise after another until it whittles you down, and it functions best when no one believes in it.-JOA
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post #43 of 88 Old 04-19-2011, 07:35 PM
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Yes, you are completely correct. Replacing capcitors is not a rocket science. I did it many times before. However, until the last time, I was always able to manage the replacement withour damaging PCB.

Now, with all help from members in this thread, I know that even jump wire is also doable by an average person. Sometimes, it is only better to have a friend who can show it in person how to do it.
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post #44 of 88 Old 04-20-2011, 10:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rekoj View Post

Yes, you are completely correct. Replacing capcitors is not a rocket science. I did it many times before. However, until the last time, I was always able to manage the replacement withour damaging PCB.

Now, with all help from members in this thread, I know that even jump wire is also doable by an average person. Sometimes, it is only better to have a friend who can show it in person how to do it.

Damage to the PC board is usually from excessive heat. If your soldering iron is too hot, or you leave it on the pad for too long, the trace can detach from the board, which is what I think happened to you. Then you have to use a jump wire to rework the board. As you experienced, this too is not excessively difficult--definitely do-able.

Luke

Evil is charming and beautiful. It makes you doubt yourself. It asks for one small compromise after another until it whittles you down, and it functions best when no one believes in it.-JOA
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post #45 of 88 Old 08-26-2011, 02:25 PM - Thread Starter
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If a recorder has been disconnected from it's power source for an extended period it might appear to be dead shortly after reconnecting the power source. In another Forum it has been suggested that if this happens some capacitors might have failed or be starting to fail. Leave the AC power cord connected for several hours and then attempt to power up the recorder. If problems persist check the capacitors to determine if replacement is necessary.

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post #46 of 88 Old 12-06-2011, 08:02 AM
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Hello,
I have DMR-ES46V lightly used and I started recording videos from mini-dv camcorder, after the first few minutes of recording, recorder showed a message saying it found some error in the disc and it needed to restart to fix.

It started to show up the message hello and U61 message click-clack, sound for 5-7 times. So, I opened and tried to cleanup the lased head and rubber hub. still the U61 error showed up. It looked like one of the capacitor is leaked, I have taken a picture of this and if any one can look into this and confirm.

I have not used the soldering iron so far.. So I need help to find out if someone can repair this in Springfield MA/Hartford CT area.
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post #47 of 88 Old 12-06-2011, 12:44 PM
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The goo on the largest capacitor in your photo looks more like glue than leakage. Leakage is generally around the top X of the capacitor and looks more like white battery acid than brown goo.
AFA repair, mickinct is Mick in CT, not sure who close he is to you but he's done many Panasonic DVDR repairs so you might want to send him a PM.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/priva...ewpm&u=7545541
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post #48 of 88 Old 12-06-2011, 12:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjeff View Post

The goo on the largest capacitor in your photo looks more like glue than leakage.

Agreed that it is probably glue, as shown in this post:


That which may be known of God is evident within man, for God has shown it to them, so that they are without excuse. (Romans 1:19-20)
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post #49 of 88 Old 12-06-2011, 07:52 PM
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Thanks jjeff and tomwil for your responses. I am pm-ing mickinct to see if he can help.. in the mean time will do more reading one the U61 message.
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post #50 of 88 Old 01-02-2012, 02:19 PM
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My Paniasonic DMR-ES20 got a case of the 00000's. When I plug it in it won't do anything except ZEROs, if I hold the power button it will go into standby mode. When I press it again it goes to HELLO and stays there. I've read all the posts on this site regarding power supply capacitors and covered all the pictures and links. My unit does not appear to have a split top, "bad boy" capacitor. Could it still be the problem? Here is an overall picture. What do you think?
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post #51 of 88 Old 03-10-2012, 12:55 PM
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This information really helps. I appeciate all the hard work you guys put into show the steps and photos. Now I know my compacity is ok. I too saw the yellow goop and that it was bad. After seeing photos of one that really is bad I see mine are ok. My problem is the display is hardly readable. I took case off and cleaned inside black display cover hoping it woule let the light s shine bright but it didn't help. I already checked and the display under set up is already set on bright. Anyone have suggestions for that?
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post #52 of 88 Old 03-10-2012, 04:06 PM
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A dim display is a sure sign of capacitors failing. Not all failed capacitors exhibit the white residue, some may just dry out and become weak. A couple of my ES-30v's have a display where the red(or is it orange??) displays are very hard to read. I just live with them because I don't want to spend the time repairing it but I believe a thread over at Videohelp.com had info on what capacitors caused the dim display problem(if it hasn't already been mentioned in this thread).
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post #53 of 88 Old 06-08-2012, 02:31 PM
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Last Saturday I heard a loud pop from my Panasonic DMR ES-10 and it went dead.
I looked inside and found that the top of the 820uF 10volt capacitor was bulged and split, and there was white residue on the lid above the capacitor position. Fortunately I had a replacement on hand with the same specs and was able to change it out which fixed the problem. None of the other caps showed any signs of bulging or leakage.
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post #54 of 88 Old 08-26-2012, 12:54 PM
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i have a panasonic dvd recorder model no. DMR-E85H the power supply is out the repair shop said they cant get parts for this unit . can you help me out
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post #55 of 88 Old 08-26-2012, 03:21 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kavasports View Post

i have a panasonic dvd recorder model no. DMR-E85H the power supply is out the repair shop said they cant get parts for this unit . can you help me out

See this post and the post just following it:

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1422452/trouble-with-panasonic-dmr-es35v/0_60#post_22262622

"A ROSE BY ANY OTHER NAME WILL SMELL AS SWEET. BUT IT DOES NOT FOLLOW THAT WHATEVER WE CHOOSE TO CALL A ROSE WILL POSSESS THE ROSE'S FRAGRANCE."

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post #56 of 88 Old 08-27-2012, 09:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kavasports View Post

i have a panasonic dvd recorder model no. DMR-E85H the power supply is out the repair shop said they cant get parts for this unit . can you help me out

As jjeff has suggested, you can do this yourself. I have done it, on my church's E85. If you aren't confident in your soldering or PC rework ability, send a PM to MICKINCT. He will be able to help you. As you have found out, Panasonic is of NO help whatsoever, are they.frown.gif

Luke

Evil is charming and beautiful. It makes you doubt yourself. It asks for one small compromise after another until it whittles you down, and it functions best when no one believes in it.-JOA
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post #57 of 88 Old 11-30-2012, 04:50 PM
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My EZ27 has been dead for months. It refuses to recognize an inserted DVD and the display is really dim. I figured it was the power supply and then I found this thread. Took it apart this evening and found this (it's numbered C1270):



Looks bloated and blown to me. Will try to get a new capacitor installed tomorrow. Never done any electronics work before but I've got nothing to loose. Wish me luck.

This forum is great!
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post #58 of 88 Old 12-01-2012, 06:12 AM
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My Panasonic DVD recorder (don't know the model number, it's not in front of me, but it's an early one with no hard drive and cost me about 5 or 6 hundred when it was new) has also been dead for a few years. When plugged in I can sometimes get the display to light up, but it wont power on, and i can't eject tray. Fan won't spin, but when I unplug it the fan spins for a fraction of a second. I opened it but don't see any bloated or oozing capacitors. Anyone have any ideas?
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post #59 of 88 Old 12-01-2012, 12:48 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stoney Jackson View Post

My Panasonic DVD recorder (don't know the model number, it's not in front of me, but it's an early one with no hard drive and cost me about 5 or 6 hundred when it was new) has also been dead for a few years. When plugged in I can sometimes get the display to light up, but it wont power on, and i can't eject tray. Fan won't spin, but when I unplug it the fan spins for a fraction of a second. I opened it but don't see any bloated or oozing capacitors. Anyone have any ideas?

Leave it plugged in for several hours before attempting to power it on. That way the capacitors will have time to build up a "charge" unless they've "dried up" in which case there might not be any visible irregularities.

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post #60 of 88 Old 12-01-2012, 04:57 PM
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Got one trace a little hot and it lifted of the board a bit but I think it'll be OK 'cause it's working after putting in a new capacitor. No telling how long it'll last but at least it isn't getting tossed in the trash.
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