Whither the capacitors in Panasonic recorders? - Page 3 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #61 of 83 Old 12-18-2012, 02:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DigaDo View Post

Leave it plugged in for several hours before attempting to power it on. That way the capacitors will have time to build up a "charge" unless they've "dried up" in which case there might not be any visible irregularities.
Tried it but nothing. I'll try to post some pics if that'll help.
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post #62 of 83 Old 02-26-2013, 02:32 PM
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i have a panasonic recorder model no. dmr e85h i replaced the power supply capacitor when i turned it on it went out again . what could be the problem
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post #63 of 83 Old 02-26-2013, 04:19 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kavasports View Post

i have a panasonic recorder model no. dmr e85h i replaced the power supply capacitor when i turned it on it went out again . what could be the problem

What, specifically, do you mean by "went out."

Did you take care to observe polarity when you replaced the capacitor?

Did the fuse fail when you reconnected the power?

After reconnecting the power did you let the recorder sit for several hours so the capacitor could build-up a "charge" before powering-up?

"A ROSE BY ANY OTHER NAME WILL SMELL AS SWEET. BUT IT DOES NOT FOLLOW THAT WHATEVER WE CHOOSE TO CALL A ROSE WILL POSSESS THE ROSE'S FRAGRANCE."

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post #64 of 83 Old 03-21-2014, 09:23 AM - Thread Starter
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Time to "bump" this thread to make it easier to find.

"A ROSE BY ANY OTHER NAME WILL SMELL AS SWEET. BUT IT DOES NOT FOLLOW THAT WHATEVER WE CHOOSE TO CALL A ROSE WILL POSSESS THE ROSE'S FRAGRANCE."

--Benjamin Breckinridge Warfield (1917)
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post #65 of 83 Old 05-02-2014, 05:11 PM
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I have two Panny dmr-es20's that quit at almost the same time, one at home, one at church. All walking zeros on the display. Eject and on buttons are non-responsive. Hold down the on button for 10 seconds and the display goes to HELLO and freezes. Opened the one at home, the main cap looks ok, one smaller one might have a slightly domed top. No splits in the relief grooves. How do I tell if the caps are good? Which ones usually fail? My first choice would be a repair.

What might be a good (economical) alternative to record a mixed, live video signal from a s-video cable input? Video capture card or some sort of a USB dongle to a computer? That would save me the step ripping the DVD to HDD to further edit and eventually burn a final DVD. Better yet would to be able to record directly to an external HDD.

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post #66 of 83 Old 05-05-2014, 07:16 PM
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I opened up the church's ES-20 unit and found two suspect caps, c1280 (680m 10v) and c1400 (470m 16v), both had slightly domed and split tops. My unit had c1400 domed but not split. So the plan is to replace both c1280's and c1400's as well as the main larger caps (100m 350v) in each unit, although they both looked OK. Found them online at RadioShack. Only problem is that the c1280 is not rated for 105C temp. Hope that is not a problem.

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post #67 of 83 Old 05-05-2014, 11:12 PM
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When I replaced the caps in my E85, I used better quality ones from Digi-Key. They were a bit more expensive, but they don't have a minimum order.

Luke

Evil is charming and beautiful. It makes you doubt yourself. It asks for one small compromise after another until it whittles you down, and it functions best when no one believes in it.-JOA
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post #68 of 83 Old 05-08-2014, 09:20 PM
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Great forum and great thread.  I have a DMR-EH75 that died about a month ago and found this thread.  I took a peak at the caps on the board, but really did not see a problem.  Finally last week I took the time to take her apart and start pulling caps.  I found that 5 of them where bad, capacitance values were off by about a factor of 10.  There was no leaks and just the slightest sign of buldging on the 5 bad caps.  I actually started getting concerned that my RLC meter was broken until I started pulling caps w/o any sign of buldging and they were perfect.  $1.50 at digikey paid for all the bad caps and she is working great again.

 

Many thanks

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post #69 of 83 Old 05-09-2014, 01:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Church AV Guy View Post

When I replaced the caps in my E85, I used better quality ones from Digi-Key. They were a bit more expensive, but they don't have a minimum order.
I went to the Digi-Key site, but was overwhelmed with all of the choices, many of which had large minimum purchase quantities.

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post #70 of 83 Old 06-17-2014, 08:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ole Anderson View Post
I opened up the church's ES-20 unit and found two suspect caps, c1280 (680m 10v) and c1400 (470m 16v), both had slightly domed and split tops. My unit had c1400 domed but not split. So the plan is to replace both c1280's and c1400's as well as the main larger caps (100m 350v) in each unit, although they both looked OK. Found them online at RadioShack. Only problem is that the c1280 is not rated for 105C temp. Hope that is not a problem.
Hi Ole Anderson.I too am having the similar problem with my Panny DMR-ES20 recorder.Flashing 0000's when off, then constant Hello and nothing else when powered on.Could you please tell me where the C1280 Capacitor is located? I can't find it anywhere on the Power PCB or Main PCB in the Service Manual.I can locate the C1400 and will replace it but so far no luck locating the C1280.

Also how did your repair work out ? I've been scouring the net for info on this model and have found out that blown caps is a very common thing for certain model Pannys like the ES-15,16,20 etc.I've already thrown out a couple of ES15 and 16 models foolishly because i didn't bother to try and fix them with the help of great folks like you on the internet.If i could salvage this ES-20 that would be awesome.

Thanks for your contribution.
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post #71 of 83 Old 06-17-2014, 11:56 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WpgJetsFan View Post
Could you please tell me where the C1280 Capacitor is located? I can't find it anywhere on the Power PCB or Main PCB in the Service Manual.I can locate the C1400 and will replace it but so far no luck locating the C1280.

The pen rests on the C1280 cap:
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"A ROSE BY ANY OTHER NAME WILL SMELL AS SWEET. BUT IT DOES NOT FOLLOW THAT WHATEVER WE CHOOSE TO CALL A ROSE WILL POSSESS THE ROSE'S FRAGRANCE."

--Benjamin Breckinridge Warfield (1917)

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post #72 of 83 Old 06-17-2014, 01:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DigaDo View Post
The pen rests on the C1280 cap:
DigaDo thank you for your reply and terrific pic of where C1280 is l ocated.Seems like my recorder layout is quite different from your pic.I did another check for Service Manuals and found there are about 4 different model versions of ES-20, mine is DMR ES-20DEBS.I'm attaching a pic of the Power Board PCB from a similar view as yours.On your recorder is C1280 the same size as the 2 capacitors to the immediate left? If so i'm assuming it might also have the same u rating and voltage.On my recorder the 2 matching capacitors on the left (they are vertically aligned while yours are horizontal) are C1270 and C1271.The third matching capacitor on mine is above and to the left where the blue pen is showing C1272.If your C1280 matches the two to the left then i'm assuming your C1280 is the same as my C1272.
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post #73 of 83 Old 06-17-2014, 02:18 PM
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I'm going to guess from your "Jets" reference and ES-16 that the OP is in Canada. I'd think a Canadian ES-20 would be similar to a US but it sounds like not. Part numbers, including Capacitors should be silk screened onto the boards near the part so if our Jets fan doesn't see a C1280 it's possible that for whatever reason his may not have that part, or it may indeed be a different part #
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Last edited by jjeff; 06-17-2014 at 02:21 PM.
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post #74 of 83 Old 06-17-2014, 03:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjeff View Post
I'm going to guess from your "Jets" reference and ES-16 that the OP is in Canada. I'd think a Canadian ES-20 would be similar to a US but it sounds like not. Part numbers, including Capacitors should be silk screened onto the boards near the part so if our Jets fan doesn't see a C1280 it's possible that for whatever reason his may not have that part, or it may indeed be a different part #
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Hi Jeff as i stated in my last post after seeing DigaDo's pic of where C1280 is i did a check for DMR-ES20 service manuals and found 4 different versions.My version doesn't have the C1280 listed in the parts list so it's a fact that mine doesn't have it.If C1280 matches the 2 capacitors to the left in DigaDo's recorder then i think i have the comparable part marked as C1272,it's in a slightly different position than C1280 , but then so are all the other parts in this area of the Power Board PCB.
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post #75 of 83 Old 05-26-2015, 10:16 PM
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My Panny E85H died. After a couple hours of a power outage, it never was able to turn back on. The fuse is still good. I had already done a Radio Shack replacement of four capacitors (C1260, C1261, C1270, and C1271), but now another has definitely blown with a split top (C1413) and one more is bulging a little (C1262).

Is is recommended to go with larger spec'd capacitors than the originals? I replaced the 680uF 10V and 16V ones with 1000uF 35V Shack ones a few years ago, and those still look fine. The current one that definitely needs replacement is 1500uF 6.3V and the bulging one is 220uF 10V.

Radio Shack doesn't sell decent replacements that would fit for those two, so I'm going to have to order online. That opens a whole world of choices at someplace like Digi-Key.

Since I can pretty much choose whatever I want, and they're all around a buck a piece or less, what's a good recommendation for these two replacements?

I know I shouldn't go much higher than 22mm in height to avoid hitting the hard drive and C1413 can be around 10mm in diameter while C1262 should stay around 5mm to fit between my two fat Shack caps. Otherwise, I can get 2000 hour ones or 10000 hour ones or 1800uF instead of 1500uF, 10V instead of 6.3V, etc. There are multiple manufacturers. Do I even care about ripple current, impedance, or other specs? Is there an advantage with no down-side to choosing aluminum-polymer caps instead of straight aluminum ones? Again, since I'm not buying a million units, price within a few bucks is not an issue (shipping will probably dominate the cost).

Thanks in advance for any thoughts or suggestions!
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post #76 of 83 Old 05-27-2015, 04:52 AM
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I'll address your voltage and capacitance questions, maybe someone else like Mickinct or Digado might know your questions about types of capacitors and which one might be best, designs have changed since I was working a lot with capacitors.
For voltage, other than size(the higher the voltage the larger the size) there is no disadvantage of going with a higher voltage, the higher the voltage potentially the longer the life. As for as capacitance, I'd try and order your replacements as close to the original design as possible, if you need to go a bit larger that would be fine but I wouldn't really go smaller than original design but I guess 10% would be OK.
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post #77 of 83 Old 05-27-2015, 11:11 AM
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Thanks. I think I'll go with higher voltages and the same capacitance. C1150 (56uF 35V) is also slightly bulging, so I might as well do that while everything is apart. I think I'll go with these (two each just in case something gets screwed up, and the parts are still less than shipping

1189-2333-ND CAP ALUM 56UF 20% 50V RADIAL

1189-1152-ND CAP ALUM 1500UF 20% 16V RADIAL

1189-1154-ND CAP ALUM 220UF 20% 16V RADIAL

Subtotal $2.74
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post #78 of 83 Old 05-27-2015, 01:13 PM
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Yes capacitors are very cheap, which makes me mad that mfgs. cheap out on them so often
I mean when you can purchase 3 capacitors for less <$3 @ at the manufacturing level were probably talking 20 cents per cap for decent ones with the cheap Chinese ones they like to use for only a few pennys less! And because they cheap out and save literally pennies at the mfg. level the majority of customers probably end up throwing away the product just several years after manufacture, what a sad waste of resources
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post #79 of 83 Old 05-27-2015, 01:48 PM
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I got six (two each of the parts listed above) for $2.74 plus $2.86 USPS first class shipping plus $0.41 in sales tax equals $6.01. The tax cost more than the unit price of the smaller uF ones (33 or 35 cents).

Hopefully these will work nicely. I'll report back here once I've made the repair.

Yeah, I agree that they shouldn't cheap out on these parts, but since my E85H was built in 2004, it might also be part of the capacitor plague issue where Panasonic, etc., didn't realize they were getting improperly formulated caps. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacitor_plague

My popped 1500uF is an Elna, which isn't supposed to be a cheap brand. Even if it wasn't part of the plague, it's 11 years old so I guess nothing lasts forever

On the other hand, device manufacturers probably don't want people keeping these things forever. There are usually enough feature upgrades to push sales, but a failure (even a fuse or capacitor) often pushes the "use it until it breaks" crowd into buying something new.

Sometimes, however, the newer devices have missing features. If there was a Tivo OTA or DTV Pal kind of device with 1.3x playback, I probably wouldn't keep using this E85H (watching news or Kimmel at 1.3x seems like less of a waste of time than regular speed). I suppose playback speed can be adjusted with VLC on a HTPC or laptop, but I'm getting off topic...
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post #80 of 83 Old 05-27-2015, 04:01 PM
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I also really like the 1.3x speed, I also use the 2x with sound for quiet parts of a movie when no one is talking. As soon as the dialogue starts I revert back to 1 or 1.3x. I really wish Tivo's 2x(or whatever the first search speed) had sound but alas they mute the sound
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post #81 of 83 Old 05-30-2015, 09:51 AM
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It was a success! After replacing the three (one really needed it and two were bulging so who knows if they were actually failed), I plugged it in. Nothing. Mild sadness, but I had read someone say it took a while to charge up. A couple of minutes later, PLEASE WAIT appeared. Then it told me there was a disk error, but that was because I forgot to plug in the HDD's power cable. Oops. After plugging that back in, it again took a couple of minutes to PLEASE WAIT and then do a SELF CHECK, but now it works just fine. I also had to remember to plug the DTV Pal into Line3, not Line1, but all the timers and recordings survived. The clock was even correct. Here are a few photos for no particular reason. I tried to capture the bulged ones as well. The fat blue ones are the Radio Shack ones from a previous "recap" a few years ago.
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post #82 of 83 Old 08-17-2015, 05:56 PM
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Major frustration!! 2.5 months later... another power outage... power comes back... wait a few hours... E85H won't turn on... how freaking annoying!!! I guess I really should have had some kind of UPS/APC for this thing.

I opened it and checked the fuse, which is fine. I looked at the caps and none of them appear to bulge even a little. I've previously replaced all the common problem ones after they'd blown or bludged per the few posts above, and I don't know if replacing them again would do anything. Maybe just reheating the solder on them would do something? Or do you get three phases of death on these? First one set of caps, then another set, then final death?

I guess I'm down to voodoo troubleshooting where I'll try leaving it unplugged for a day or two and see what happens. In the meantime, any other suggestions?
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post #83 of 83 Unread Today, 05:53 PM
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It was the MR1521 chip (IC1150) with the little heatsink. Instead of replacing it myself (Chinese sellers of the chip want only $4 but take a few weeks to get it here, and US sellers want over $10 per chip), I found a guy on ebay who could replace the chip and also test the other capacitors. He did a great job for only $45. I shipped him just the power board (under $6 for priority) and his return shipping is included in the $45 to diagnose and repair the board. He verified that my capacitors were OK, his soldering was precise, he added some fresh thermal paste to the little heatsink, and he got it shipped back quickly.

If anyone is looking for such a service in the future due to bad caps or other chips, you can search ebay for E85H and sort by price low to high to find "Panasonic DMR E85H Just Send Power Board." He's got one left here (but he relists them): http://www.ebay.com/itm/Panasonic-DM...item464036c428

If you don't see one listed or you want to work outside of ebay for some reason, he can be contacted at watchguy1960@comcast.net or http://www.ebay.com/usr/watchguy1960time

He's sold three in the last few weeks, so it's a surprisingly popular service for such an old piece of equipment. His feedback for this service has several "it works" comments.

Anyway, my E85H lives once more, and this time I plugged it into a new battery backup UPS surge protector, so it should hopefully survive a few years this time between repairs.
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