EH55 DVD drive failure, no error indicated - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 38 Old 12-08-2008, 08:08 AM - Thread Starter
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Well, after all this time with Panasonic DVD recordes, I finally had my first failure. I was burning a +R DL disk, these always take a long time, and left for church. When I got back about two hours later, the EH55 was powered off, which I thought was suspicious. When I powered it on, there was a message saying the copy was unsuccessful due tot he disk, and it suggested I try another one. It would not recognize the new disk I put in, so I put in a normal -R blank. It didn't recognize that either. That was when I realized it was making an unusual series of "beeping" noises of differing pitches, AND it thinks a disk is predent in the DVD drive when it is empty.

No error code is displayed, but the DVD drive is useless.

The HDD works fine, and all other functions seem intact.

After eight DVD recorders, I was probably due for a failure of some kind.

A trip to the repair center is called for I guess. Is this the correct address?

Panasonic Service Center
1590 Touhly Ave
Elk Grove Village, IL 60007
1-888-439-2676

Luke

Evil is charming and beautiful. It makes you doubt yourself. It asks for one small compromise after another until it whittles you down, and it functions best when no one believes in it.-JOA
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post #2 of 38 Old 12-08-2008, 08:48 AM
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That is almost identical to what happened to my EH-75 that I started in another post.
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post #3 of 38 Old 12-08-2008, 09:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Church AV Guy View Post

Well, after all this time with Panasonic DVD recordes, I finally had my first failure. I was burning a +R DL disk, these always take a long time, and left for church. When I got back about two hours later, the EH55 was powered off, which I thought was suspicious. When I powered it on, there was a message saying the copy was unsuccessful due tot he disk, and it suggested I try another one. It would not recognize the new disk I put in, so I put in a normal -R blank. It didn't recognize that either. That was when I realized it was making an unusual series of "beeping" noises of differing pitches, AND it thinks a disk is predent in the DVD drive when it is empty.

No error code is displayed, but the DVD drive is useless.

The HDD works fine, and all other functions seem intact.

After eight DVD recorders, I was probably due for a failure of some kind.

A trip to the repair center is called for I guess. Is this the correct address?

Panasonic Service Center
1590 Touhly Ave
Elk Grove Village, IL 60007
1-888-439-2676

The usual error code might be U61 without a disc in the DVD drive or U88 with a disc in the DVD drive. If those errors were shown on the machine's front panel it might indicate a problem with the laser assembly or the Digital PCB.

If there are loud clunks from the DVD drive I would again suspect a dirty lens or failed laser.

Perhaps the beeping noises are related to DVD drive motor operations, one for the motor that spins the shaft that causes the laser assembly to run up and down the rods, another that spins the spindle, and another that operates the disc tray mechanism. A less likely problem is a failed ribbon cable contact between the DVD drive and the Digital PCB.

Have you attempted to play a commercial DVD or a burned, finalized DVD?

With these hard drive models the best approach is the $130 flat-rate repair through the Panasonic Service Center in Elk Grove Village. The street name has no "l" in it. Otherwise the information is correct.

"A ROSE BY ANY OTHER NAME WILL SMELL AS SWEET. BUT IT DOES NOT FOLLOW THAT WHATEVER WE CHOOSE TO CALL A ROSE WILL POSSESS THE ROSE'S FRAGRANCE."

--Benjamin Breckinridge Warfield (1917)
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post #4 of 38 Old 12-08-2008, 10:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mullyman View Post

That is almost identical to what happened to my EH-75 that I started in another post.

Information concerning the best place to have a Panasonic serviced is found here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...8#post14451738

"A ROSE BY ANY OTHER NAME WILL SMELL AS SWEET. BUT IT DOES NOT FOLLOW THAT WHATEVER WE CHOOSE TO CALL A ROSE WILL POSSESS THE ROSE'S FRAGRANCE."

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post #5 of 38 Old 12-08-2008, 10:27 AM - Thread Starter
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I have opened it up and observed what it's doing, and it moves the optical head four times, back and forth. It starts slightly away from the center hub, and then moves until it contacts the hub, then moves back again. After four of these back and forth movements, the spindle motor engages for a moment (diffferent sound). then it does it all again. All the while, as long as the tray is not open, the machine thinks there is a disk in the drive. Manually moving the read mechanism to either extreme or a center position had no effect. There has been NO error message on the display, unless it cam and went very quickly.

I haven't tried to put in a finalized or commercial disk, so I should do that, but it seems rather hopeless to me at the moment. I'll try it thought. Nothing ventured, nothing gained.

This sounds like a sensor failure in the drive, and that I presume is not exactly a fix-it-yourself issue. Assuming no one has any brilliant insight into resetting this macine, I plan on sending it off as soon as I get all the content off it. Yes, it means playing it back and re-recording it on another machine, but it's better than losing the content, and it HAS to be much better than the VHS transfers I have been doing lately.

Luke

Evil is charming and beautiful. It makes you doubt yourself. It asks for one small compromise after another until it whittles you down, and it functions best when no one believes in it.-JOA
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post #6 of 38 Old 12-08-2008, 11:15 AM
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One other thing to try is a CD. I had a combo player give out the other day. It wouldn't read DVDs of any type but did read CDs. I know this isn't a good option for you but you might want to try it for the heck of it. The read head on my player does just what yours does. Either way I think sending it in for repair is in your very near future.
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post #7 of 38 Old 12-10-2008, 02:16 PM - Thread Starter
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When I call Elk Grove Village, all I get is a recording. I have left messages to have them call back but they haven't done so yet. It has been more than a day since my first message. Am I making a mistake? Should I be selecting a number rather than just leaving a message?

Any help?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DigaDo View Post

A number of other posters have had some difficulty getting through. If their phone system is automated you may want to try a "number" to see if you may get a "live" person. I wonder if front office staffing has been cut back.

So, do I keep trying or is there better advice? Someone with recent out-of-warranty repair experience?

Luke

Evil is charming and beautiful. It makes you doubt yourself. It asks for one small compromise after another until it whittles you down, and it functions best when no one believes in it.-JOA
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post #8 of 38 Old 12-10-2008, 03:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Church AV Guy View Post

Well, after all this time with Panasonic DVD recordes, I finally had my first failure. I was burning a +R DL disk, these always take a long time, and left for church. When I got back about two hours later, the EH55 was powered off, which I thought was suspicious. When I powered it on, there was a message saying the copy was unsuccessful due tot he disk, and it suggested I try another one. It would not recognize the new disk I put in, so I put in a normal -R blank. It didn't recognize that either. That was when I realized it was making an unusual series of "beeping" noises of differing pitches, AND it thinks a disk is predent in the DVD drive when it is empty.

No error code is displayed, but the DVD drive is useless.

The HDD works fine, and all other functions seem intact.

After eight DVD recorders, I was probably due for a failure of some kind.

A trip to the repair center is called for I guess. Is this the correct address?

Panasonic Service Center
1590 Touhly Ave
Elk Grove Village, IL 60007
1-888-439-2676

How long have you owned this DVD Recorder?
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post #9 of 38 Old 12-10-2008, 10:24 PM - Thread Starter
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I've had the EH55 about a year and a half. My E85 is a lot older and still working fine.

Luke

Evil is charming and beautiful. It makes you doubt yourself. It asks for one small compromise after another until it whittles you down, and it functions best when no one believes in it.-JOA
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post #10 of 38 Old 12-11-2008, 02:57 PM - Thread Starter
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I was in the process of writing a nasty-gram to Panasonic Customer Care about the lack of getting a person at Elk Grove when I got a call fro mthem, finally! They gave me instructions, which amounted to put it in a box and send it in, no RMA, no accessories. Include a page with contact information and a detailed description of the problem and $130 payment, and that's IT!

Okay then.

She DID say that they have been overwhelmed with telephone calls since the week prior to Thanksgiving, and there have been few people assigned to phone call follow-up. Go Fig! I guess you don't really have to call, just send 'er in.

Luke

Evil is charming and beautiful. It makes you doubt yourself. It asks for one small compromise after another until it whittles you down, and it functions best when no one believes in it.-JOA
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post #11 of 38 Old 12-13-2008, 05:11 PM
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Crap, just had the drive failure as well with the repetitive grinding noise and then indicator showing media inside when it's empty!

Justin
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post #12 of 38 Old 12-13-2008, 05:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JustinCheckin View Post

Crap, just had the drive failure as well with the repetitive grinding noise and then indicator showing media inside when it's empty!

Grinding or scrubbing noises usually indicate that it's time for the DVD drive's rubber hub to be cleaned.

Clunking noises usually indicate that the lens is dirty or has failed.

Hub cleaning advice and photos are found in this and the following posts:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...8#post14479898

"A ROSE BY ANY OTHER NAME WILL SMELL AS SWEET. BUT IT DOES NOT FOLLOW THAT WHATEVER WE CHOOSE TO CALL A ROSE WILL POSSESS THE ROSE'S FRAGRANCE."

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post #13 of 38 Old 12-29-2008, 05:19 PM - Thread Starter
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The UPS web site told me that my DVD recorder was received by Panasonic, Elk Grove Village, on Dec 19th. I had included a personal check with the unit for the $130.00 flat-rate repair. I just got a letter from them saying that I need to give them a credit card for any repair cost in excess of the $130, plus tax and shipping/handling.

Is this new, or did I do something wrong? I obviously want my recorder repaired, but I thought the $130 covered the repair cost plus the shipping. Is there tax on the repair from the state of California?

Any ideas?

Luke

Luke

Evil is charming and beautiful. It makes you doubt yourself. It asks for one small compromise after another until it whittles you down, and it functions best when no one believes in it.-JOA
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post #14 of 38 Old 12-29-2008, 05:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Church AV Guy View Post

The UPS web site told me that my DVD recorder was received by Panasonic, Elk Grove Village, on Dec 19th. I had included a personal check with the unit for the $130.00 flat-rate repair. I just got a letter from them saying that I need to give them a credit card for any repair cost in excess of the $130, plus tax and shipping/handling.

Is this new, or did I do something wrong? I obviously want my recorder repaired, but I thought the $130 covered the repair cost plus the shipping. Is there tax on the repair from the state of California?

Any ideas?

Luke

Others have reported receiving this form letter when the office staff does not read your letter advising them that:

1-you want the $130 flat-rate repair for which you have enclosed payment, and
2-you provide a description of your machine's problem(s).

Contact them at 1-888-439-2676 (or whatever inside contact number they have given you) to call their attention to your request for the $130 flat-rate repair. You must insist upon the $130 flat-rate repair. Do not agree to an estimate as that leads to being charged at the actual parts, labor and shipping rate that can easily escalate into a very expensive repair.

The $130 should cover everything, parts, labor and return shipping. There should be no tax as you are not an Illinois resident.

"A ROSE BY ANY OTHER NAME WILL SMELL AS SWEET. BUT IT DOES NOT FOLLOW THAT WHATEVER WE CHOOSE TO CALL A ROSE WILL POSSESS THE ROSE'S FRAGRANCE."

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post #15 of 38 Old 12-30-2008, 07:59 AM - Thread Starter
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Now I am even more uncertain. I called the repair center and mentioned that I got this letter and before I could say anything else, I was told to forget about it. The unit was being repaired. I started to say that the letter said if I didn't respond within 15 days the machine would be returned unrepaird, but the lady on the phone interrupted and said disregard the letter. A heck of a place they're running! I DID get an e-mail address for the Elk Grove Village location.

camerarepair@us.panasonic.com

Just in case anyone is interested.

By the way the only mention of Elk Grove Village, IL, was the return address on the envelope. The envelope said "Panasonic Camera & Digital Service Center" and so did the letter.

DigaDo, thanks for the information! Really!

Luke

Evil is charming and beautiful. It makes you doubt yourself. It asks for one small compromise after another until it whittles you down, and it functions best when no one believes in it.-JOA
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post #16 of 38 Old 12-31-2008, 09:49 AM - Thread Starter
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I sent Panasonic an e-mail asking for a clarification because of the contradictory information I got from phone conversations and the letter. Here was their reply:

Quote:


Good Morning,
The status of your unit at this point is that your unit has been completed and repaired and it's in Quality Control. Quality Control is in charge of checking every detail function the unit has to make sure it's working properly. Once the unit passes QC it will be shipped out to you. We are looking at your unit being shipped out no later then early next week, due to the holidays coming up. There will be no charge to you for this repair. If you have any further questions, comment or concerns feel free to email or call us at 888-439-2676.

Thanks for your time and support
Panasonic Digital Service Center

I assume that they mean no FURTHER charge. This is very good news indeed.

Luke

Evil is charming and beautiful. It makes you doubt yourself. It asks for one small compromise after another until it whittles you down, and it functions best when no one believes in it.-JOA
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post #17 of 38 Old 12-31-2008, 10:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Church AV Guy View Post

I sent Panasonic an e-mail asking for a clarification because of the contradictory information I got from phone conversations and the letter . . . I assume that they mean no FURTHER charge. This is very good news indeed.

Thank you for sharing that e-mail. This provides insight, reinforcing our confidence that the technical experts at the Panasonic Digital Service Center are conscientious, competent and thorough.

The front office staff still need to work on their operational/processing procedures.

"A ROSE BY ANY OTHER NAME WILL SMELL AS SWEET. BUT IT DOES NOT FOLLOW THAT WHATEVER WE CHOOSE TO CALL A ROSE WILL POSSESS THE ROSE'S FRAGRANCE."

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post #18 of 38 Old 01-02-2009, 10:54 PM - Thread Starter
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Panasonic repair got it wrong again. this time in my favor! They said that they expected to have mt EH55 shipped no later than early next week. Well, it arrived TODAY. Unless they sent it by Relativity-Express, it must have been shipped before that e-mail was sent to me.

I have been extremely busy, so I haven't been able to test it yet. I'll let you know tomorrow.

Luke

Evil is charming and beautiful. It makes you doubt yourself. It asks for one small compromise after another until it whittles you down, and it functions best when no one believes in it.-JOA
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post #19 of 38 Old 01-03-2009, 11:44 PM - Thread Starter
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Well, I've run it through it's paces, at least the ones I use, and it has passed completely. The hard drive contents were intact.

The paperwork inside claimed the drive and control board were replaced. The $130 was listed as payment, and no further payment was required. That was pretty fast service right in the middle of the Christmas season.

The only thing that I use that I haven't tested yet is +R DL recording. I do it so rarely, it might be a while before I have some content to test it on. With -RAM reads and writes, and -R writes working, I have little fear.

Luke

Evil is charming and beautiful. It makes you doubt yourself. It asks for one small compromise after another until it whittles you down, and it functions best when no one believes in it.-JOA
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post #20 of 38 Old 01-04-2009, 12:02 AM
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It's nice to hear about good experiences with repairs for these machines. The burner on my Toshiba RD-XS35 was also successfully repaired last year, but not nearly with the celerity you experienced.
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post #21 of 38 Old 01-04-2009, 08:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Church AV Guy View Post

Well, I've run it through it's paces, at least the ones I use, and it has passed completely. The hard drive contents were intact.

The paperwork inside claimed the drive and control board were replaced. The $130 was listed as payment, and no further payment was required. That was pretty fast service right in the middle of the Christmas season.

This is very good. The corporate Panasonic Digital Service Center at Elk Grove Village Illinois is the only place to have a high-end Panasonic repaired.

What might the replacement of the DVD drive and the Digital PCB cost at a local "authorized" repair shop?

First they would have to order a DMR-EH55 Service Manual through Panasonic Parts, probably priced around $80, a cost that would have to be passed along to the customer. While they wait for the Service Manual to arrive (and since they've never seen an EH55 before) they would have to figure out how the machine is supposed to work. They downloading and study the Operating Instructions. Then, after the Service Manual arrives they would have to study it, say two or three hours to wade through the awkward translations. Then, hopefully, they already have the correct diagnostic jumper/extension cables and the correct diagnostic devices. Then there would be more study of the Service Manual. Once they managed to figure out what parts are needed they would have to order them from Panasonic Parts, more waiting.

What do those parts cost a local "authorized" shop? The DVD drive (Panasonic calls it a RAM Drive) and the control board (the Digital PCB portion of the "module") are listed this way on the Panasonic Parts order page:

RFKNEH55P RAM/DIGITAL PCB MODULE 633.20

$633.20! Then there's the waiting until the parts arrive. Then it's back to the Service Manual for more study. Then there's the installation with testing to follow.

The $130 flat-rate repair through the Panasonic Digital Service Center is a bargain. The experts and all the parts to restore a Panasonic to new functional condition are located at Elk Grove Village.

"A ROSE BY ANY OTHER NAME WILL SMELL AS SWEET. BUT IT DOES NOT FOLLOW THAT WHATEVER WE CHOOSE TO CALL A ROSE WILL POSSESS THE ROSE'S FRAGRANCE."

--Benjamin Breckinridge Warfield (1917)
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post #22 of 38 Old 01-04-2009, 08:28 PM - Thread Starter
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Agreed. Absolutely.

Luke

Evil is charming and beautiful. It makes you doubt yourself. It asks for one small compromise after another until it whittles you down, and it functions best when no one believes in it.-JOA
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post #23 of 38 Old 01-13-2009, 03:13 PM
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For flat cost repair, is it possible to use Panasonic account for shipping to IL, if so how?

You got to be nuts; you want me to pay to watch commercials?
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post #24 of 38 Old 01-13-2009, 03:24 PM
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Pack the dvdr up, with a letter describing its problem and that you want the flat rate repair, include $130 payment, and take it to a UPS STORE, where they should have a shipping account number. Note, the STORE is NOT the same as your regular UPS agent or office. You can find your nearest UPS Store on line, I don't remember whether the Panasonic website or ups search.
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post #25 of 38 Old 01-14-2009, 10:22 AM - Thread Starter
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Correct. The UPS stores should have the corporate account available for you to ship your unit back. I live in a town far from (80+ miles) the nearest store, so I just paid for the shipping to them myself. They did not charge me anything for return shipping, which means the $130 covered that too.

Luke

Evil is charming and beautiful. It makes you doubt yourself. It asks for one small compromise after another until it whittles you down, and it functions best when no one believes in it.-JOA
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post #26 of 38 Old 01-26-2009, 10:46 AM - Thread Starter
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Just as a final follow-up, it took a while but I eventually got some program material that required a DL disk (or two regular ones) [gotta love PBS Masterpiece Classic!]. If you remember from the original post, my EH-55 "broke" or quit working while making a DL disk, so there was a slight concern. Well, the process of making the DVD +R DL went, as expected, painfully slow, but it worked exactly like it was supposed to. The Elk Grove Village repair department did well, at least by me.

Luke

Evil is charming and beautiful. It makes you doubt yourself. It asks for one small compromise after another until it whittles you down, and it functions best when no one believes in it.-JOA
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post #27 of 38 Old 02-21-2009, 04:37 AM
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Well I`ve had my Panasonic DMR-EZ28 DVD recorder for over a year and up until earlier tonight it performed very well. I tried to put in a blank DVD-R and it didn`t load up like normal. The drive made a clunky clunky noise with a sound like errrnt errnt errnt ...errnt errnt. Home from a gig (it`s early, or is that late?!) I took the cover off and the sound is actually accompanied by serious clunky vibration. Even opening and the drive closing with no disc the same thing happens and it says in the display cannot read disc or something (some disc error note). I think I may have worn the thing out! Before the gig I did go back to Best Buy and bought another one, same model for $235, and now I have this broken one which I`d like to get fixed as I`m sure the new one will go out someday just like the old one. Though I think $130 is kinda high for a repair, the drive does look expensive with all the circuitry on the bottom. I was hoping to just buy a replacement drive and plug it in (I can do that as long as the multi pin connector comes off easily without breaking the many pin contacts). I guess $130 IS cheaper than the $235 plus tax fro a new one. But damn, I was thinking a new drive for it can`t cost more than 60 bucks! ...ohh well, what can ya do? *sigh*

I had a real nice Sony RDR-GX7 $800 DVD recorder (when they first came out) too that the drive went out and said disc error messages. I swear that unit is much higher quality than anything they make these days, the unit is just so solid and much more to it on the inside. When it was working it made such high quality recordings, even in standard mode, let alone high quality mode. Things are made cheap these days, less circuitry, let alone heft (I may be wrong but that`s my opinion). I still have it. I wonder if it would be worth the cost to get that one fixed?

BTW, I stumbled upon this site by googling for Panasonic DVD drive repair, heh. : )
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post #28 of 38 Old 02-21-2009, 05:36 AM
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If I had to venture a guess I'd say your spindle needs cleaning. If anyone smokes in your house, you have excessive dust or you handle the disc by the hole in the middle of the disc, any of these activities can contribute to a dirty spindle. The + side is it's relatively easy to clean once you've taken the cover off the unit and then the DVD drive. Here's a link talking about spindle cleaning, IMO it should be done yearly, maybe more often depending on use.
http://club.cdfreaks.com/f106/fixing...t-help-210507/
Agreed you could send it in for $130 and that would be cheaper than the $235 new but for less than 1/2 hr you should be able to get things working again.
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post #29 of 38 Old 02-21-2009, 06:10 AM
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jjeff has given you the info on how to clean the Panasonic: this is a very common issue with that brand and cleaning usually does get them up and running again. The Sony RDR-GX7 is another story: I'm afraid you have a paperweight on your hands, since Sony no longer stocks repair parts for the burner. When initially sold, the Sony had problematic firmware and it was ridiculously picky about what discs it would burn, and as they age these problems intensify. Try looking at other AVS threads and see if you can snag the firmware upgrade from someone, I think that thread was updated last week. Also, try ordering some TaiyoYuden (TY) Premium 8x DVD-R media online from supermedia store or rima: your Sony was engineered specifically for the TY dye formula and if its functional at all should still be able to record on it. The 16x media sold in stores today is incompatible with almost everything other than new PC burners, if thats what you're using the Sony probably can't digest it.
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post #30 of 38 Old 02-21-2009, 09:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesman View Post

Well I`ve had my Panasonic DMR-EZ28 DVD recorder for over a year and up until earlier tonight it performed very well. I tried to put in a blank DVD-R and it didn`t load up like normal. The drive made a clunky clunky noise with a sound like errrnt errnt errnt ...errnt errnt . . . I took the cover off and the sound is actually accompanied by serious clunky vibration. Even opening and the drive closing with no disc the same thing happens and it says in the display cannot read disc or something (some disc error note) . . . Though I think $130 is kinda high for a repair, the drive does look expensive with all the circuitry on the bottom. I was hoping to just buy a replacement drive and plug it in (I can do that as long as the multi pin connector comes off easily without breaking the many pin contacts). I guess $130 IS cheaper than the $235 plus tax fro a new one. But damn, I was thinking a new drive for it can`t cost more than 60 bucks! ...ohh well, what can ya do? *sigh*

When "no read" is displayed and you hear "grinding" or "scrubbing" noises that usually indicates that the DVD Drive's rubber hub needs cleaning. Jeff has given you a link to the procedure. Be sure to position the roller/slider (at the rear of the disc tray) to the far left before securing the DVD Drive lid. More advice and photos are found in this and the following posts:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...8#post14479898

If you hear "clunking" or "chugging" noises, especially with U61 or U88 errors, that usually indicates that the lens is dirty or the lens assembly itself has failed. The lens may be cleaned during the rubber hub cleaning procedure. Other less likely problems may be with the Digital PCB or a ribbon cable (if one has been disturbed) or a power supply capacitor. All these problems and their remedies are described in other threads.

Panasonic calls the DVD Drive a "RAM Drive." Here is the part number and the replacement cost for the DVD Drive if purchased through Panasonic Parts Company or a local "authorized" repair shop:

VXY2010 DVD-RAM DRIVE $382.02

The $130 flat-rate repair through the Panasonic Digital Service Center in Elk Grove Village Illinois includes parts, labor and shipping. If you ship your EZ28 to Elk Grove be sure to describe the all the problems with the machine so they will find and correct everything that's amiss. Elk Grove is the only place that has Panasonic experts that return a machine to new or better than new functional condition in a prompt and efficient manner:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...8#post14451738

The VXY2010 DVD Drive is used on other 2008 model year Panasonics (DMR-EZx8x models) so these interchange with a DMR-EZ28. Parts machines may often be found on eBay at a reasonable cost. Read condition descriptions very carefully. Remember the distinction between "grinding/scrubbing" and "clunking/chugging" when considering a parts machine.

"A ROSE BY ANY OTHER NAME WILL SMELL AS SWEET. BUT IT DOES NOT FOLLOW THAT WHATEVER WE CHOOSE TO CALL A ROSE WILL POSSESS THE ROSE'S FRAGRANCE."

--Benjamin Breckinridge Warfield (1917)
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