Panasonic DMR-EH75, TVGOS, Cablevision Brooklyn NY - Page 6 - AVS Forum
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post #151 of 173 Old 10-08-2010, 10:29 AM
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Yesterday I received a response from Rovi CE Tech Support to the diagnostic questionnaire I completed. I found it to be, well, appalling. The email appeared to be a collection of canned responses and not applicable to the situation at hand. I don't believe that I'm breaching any confidences by posting most of it here:

We have received word that Time Warner in your area is in the process of switching to an all digital network. The device your using (DMR-EH 75) is an analog DVR. If it is the case that Time Warner has indeed made the switch this would be why you have no listings. You will need a converter box in order to pass our data and see TV Guide listings.

To our knowledge, Artec is the only company that manufactures a box currently available that passes our data. This is not a recommendation or endorsement of these products.

For more information, use the following resources.

www.artec.com Artec website for information and ordering their converter box


In my response to this email I reiterated that the TV Guide channel is still on TW Manhattan in analog, that the scrolling TV Guide list disappeared too, and the major analog channel removal occurred last year.
I also pointed out that Artec (actual url is http://artectv.com) makes ATSC-to-NTSC over-the-air converters, nothing that will work on QAM cable.
I asked whether Rovi's contractual agreement with TW cable had been terminated.

I am discouraged.
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post #152 of 173 Old 10-08-2010, 11:33 AM
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Thanks radiotron. Based on your update, this is what I wrote to Rovi...

Someone on the AVS Forum passed along the gist of the Rovi reply re. TVGOS problems for Time-Warner having to do with "analog to digital switch" This would appear to be wrong or less than accurate in that the TVG analog (ch18) is coming through just fine in TW Manhattan South!

The problem lies in the willingness (TW) or ability (based on whether Rovi is supplying the data & hardware support) to carry said data. That's an entirely different matter. Which is it? The answer really matters to the frustrated users who have only enjoyed about 2+ months of service since the last big outage caused by TW's termination of service via TVG ch51. TW reassigned the channel and stripped the data that was transmitted via this digital channel perfectly for years. Please clarify because given Rovi history of clear-headed support over the years, them now saying "analog to digital switch" under these circumstances is like saying "take two asprin and call me in the morning" Please clarify.

Thanks,
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post #153 of 173 Old 10-11-2010, 07:31 AM
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1. The below is part of an email which Rovi sent to me on 10-7. Rovi does seem to accept , in principle, that the TVGOS info is getting to TWC in NYC, that TWC is supposed to insert it into an analog channel, and that Lionsgate TVG channel will let TWC use its analog 18 as a carrier
However we will escalate this information to our broadcast engineers (f)or further investigation. As soon as more information is made available this case will be updated.
2. My guess is that Rovi accepts that there really is a transmission problem more readily when there is no cable box involved, which is my situation. I have only a built in CableCard slot on the other input of the split of the TWC cable output. In 2005, Rovi's predecessor, Gemstar, finally accepted that RCN NY was actually not transmitting the OTA analog TVGOS data (and got RCN to correct it ) since I had then a direct connection, period, to the RCN cable. It turned out, amazingly, that RCN was converting All the digital OTA stations to analog and sending all those out so the actual OTA analog channel that carried the TVGOS via its VBI was never sent out.
3. Pauld2007, when I got a TV Guide Channel 51 via my Cablecard, until a few months ago, it was definitely the analog version, not the digital one. I could tell because it was the only channel via the Cablecard whose audio shrieked going through the optical input of my amplifier.
4. If I ever do get an update from Rovi, I will post the info here.
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post #154 of 173 Old 10-27-2010, 02:34 PM
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Anyone hear back from Rovi as to why TVG data has stopped on analog ch18? I've written them a couple of time but no answer yet.

A footnote - now that I've been using the manual timer to record I learned something about my eh55. The chronic problem it had of aborting recordings (usually about 5 or 9 seconds into it) *never* happens with the manual timer, it only happened with scheduling recordings via TVGOS, go figure.

Paul
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post #155 of 173 Old 10-28-2010, 10:17 PM
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I had received a reply from Rovi around Oct 18. It read as follows:

There appears to be an issue with the TV Guide data passing through the cable service. Our broadcast engineers are working this issue with the cable provider's engineers. We will update you as more information becomes available.

So it would appear that Rovi is finally convinced that there just might be something wrong. I wonder whether they've contacted TW Cable about this yet... I do know that there's still no TVGOS data on any of TWC Manhattan's analog channels as of today.
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post #156 of 173 Old 10-29-2010, 11:48 AM
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We also have an analog Panasonic DMR-EH75. Comcast in Houston still transmits analog data. (I might add that having analog transmission is what keeps us loyal to Comcast.)We have been having issues with the analog tvgos data since Oct 13th.

I had prematurely posted in another section of the forum that our issues were resolved. Sorry if that was misleading to any forum member reading my post. We actually only got one day of tv guide listings. Diagnostic screens still show data transmission numbers are still increasing, the clock continues to be updated, and we see our host channel.

Sent an updated email to Rovi today with the information above. Hope to hear Rovi is working on resolving. Something appears to have been changed.
There appears to be many people affected by this issue.

Good luck all.

My two cents: The good people here are only trying to keep devices working that are in many cases less that 5 years old! I believe companies have a responsibility to maintain product functionality.
It is a cop out and irresponsible to blame the digital conversion for all the problems. Much confusion is caused by lack of communication between the providers of tvgos, the hosting channel, the content providers, and manufacturer of devices.
I hope a someone can come up with a solution to allow people to continue to using their devices so that we can keep them out of a landfill.
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post #157 of 173 Old 11-01-2010, 10:57 AM
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I'm sorry to hear that people in other cable systems are having problems with TVGOS.
Here in Time Warner Manhattan Cable-land there has been no VBI data available since mid-September. This problem is different from previous outages in that this is not intermittent or garbled data, this is a total lack of data.
If you have a Panasonic DMR-EH75 or EH55, you can enter the "G* test" mode to see whether there are good or problematic VBI data packets being received.
A handy way to do this is to first tune the unit to the host channel, then press "schedule" on your remote, arrow up to the menu bar, arrow left to set-up and arrow down once. Avoid the temptation to press the "enter" button, but rather key in the following code: 971397135. You will be greeted with a test screen. The VBI test will be displayed along with some other tests. The VBI test will take about 20 seconds to complete. Pass or Fail will be displayed on the left and good or bad packet counts will be displayed in the central portion of the screen. I have found that the next step is very important to perform: after the test has completed (Pass or Fail) press 2 on the keypad to run the VBI test a second time and allow it to complete (another 20 seconds). If you don't do this, TVGOS enters a failure mode which will take about 10 minutes of your time to get out of. Very annoying!
HoustonUserSue: please let us know whether you get any results. I have observed that when the local TVGOS data inserter is working, but there's no guide data being transmitted there is a low packet count (4 to 16) when there's no operational inserter (which appears to be the case here in NY city) there's no packet count at all.
Good luck to all.
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post #158 of 173 Old 11-02-2010, 10:59 PM
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radiotron,
Thank you for the information on this Factory Test. Both Flash and VBI tests were shown to "PASS". The packet statistics for VBI were also all good. We repeated the test a few times and recorded from 40-80 good packets in 20 seconds (with no bad or fixed packets)
Our loss of tvgos this time is different from previous outages. We appear to be actually getting data. After rebooting (by the next day) the tv guide version updated, the host channel was found, the time and date were found, and station identification logos were obtained.
In past outages we didn't get any data at all. Past outage reasons include Rovi outages, Comcast not sending the tvgos data, and the host channel not sending the tvgos data.
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post #159 of 173 Old 11-04-2010, 12:35 PM
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I contacted the NYC Dept of Information Tech. and Telecommunications
http://doitt.nyc.gov
They wrote me back (summarized in my ltr to Rovi). The NYC DOITT office also says that TW claimed I was the *only* person complaining about this. "I also inquired as to similar related complaints and the Time Warner Engineers said they had no others to report."

If you haven't complained to Time-Warner would you do so now please. I found the regular TW chain of command useless and disinterested. Only the TW dept that answers to the city has been remotely responsive. That doesn't mean they've done anything or are informed but at least they listen and pretend to care.

My contact in that TW dept is Bob Riedinger 718-661-6168 robert.riedinger@TWcable.com
Another person at that # is Ms. Edwards.

Here is my letter to Rovi...

Dear CE Tech support,

As best I can see your reply does not square with the TW answer relayed to me that follows. They claim the wrinkle is not the cablecasting but the way they *get* the data (satellite) from you, which is it? Furthermore all things analog seem to be a dead-end so why not concentrate on a digital solution?

I wrote the office of NYC government dept (of Information Tech. and Telecommunications) that regulates the Time-Warner cable franchise regarding the Sept. TVGOS data outage. They wrote back saying "The (TW) Engineer’s are telling me the channel once used to carry the necessary data is now digitally received via satellite to Time Warner Cable" Besides the seeming contradiction I pointed out (above), I wanted to ask you if this can explain away the fact that for about three years (until this May) I got my TVGOS data via a DIGITAL channel (TVG ch51) from TW? None of this adds up, I feel lost. Can you help clarify the situation?

On a personal note, how does Rovi feel about working with TW to restore service which must have been difficult, (the transition to analog ch18 this summer was very difficult for me) only to see the "solution" last for a little over two months?

Sincerely,

Paul D....

>Time warner has changed the way they broadcast the analog signal. At the moment we do not have a way to insert our data into this broadcast. Our engineers are currently working on a solution.

>Thank you
>CE Tech support
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post #160 of 173 Old 11-10-2010, 09:45 AM
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radiotron et al,

It's quiet here. Have you guys thrown in the towel on Time-Warner? Are you looking at other carriers?

I'm not ready to give up but it's hard to make an informed argument when I don't don't have all the facts from Rovi. (Or the "facts" seem contradictory.)

Paul
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post #161 of 173 Old 11-10-2010, 09:58 PM
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I've not given up yet, although the response to my email to Reidinger at TW has been non-existent. Rovi CE Support sent this email just today:
Time Warner has made changes in your area. The tv guide data at the moment cannot pass through this new broadcast. Our engineers are currently working with Time Warner in order to resolve this. At the moment we have no ETA as to when this will be resolved but as soon as more information is made available we will update this case. You do not need to reply to this email

Yeah, don't call us... BTW there's no server at http://doitt.nyc.gov
As for other carriers, there's no alternative to TW in my neck of the woods, and besides, neither FiOS nor RCN carry an NTSC signal, and so are incapable of conveying analog TVGOS data.
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post #162 of 173 Old 11-11-2010, 05:36 AM
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Hi radiotron,

Glad to hear you're hanging in there. Sorry about that URL. Here is the general & cable complaint link

http://www.nyc.gov/html/doitt/html/home/home.shtml
http://www.nyc.gov/html/doitt/html/c...ice_form.shtml

The man in charge re. our issues is Peter J. Schwab Executive Director of Franchise Administration. As to Mr. Riedinger, he is charged with fielding problems relayed from NYC's regulatory office. So a complaint to DOITT should come on his radar, then he is obliged to act on it.

Here is the exact wording from the DOITT.

"The Engineer's are telling me the channel once used to carry the necessary data is now digitally received via satellite to Time Warner Cable."

Please correct me if I'm wrong but the above relayed from TW describes a problem *getting* the data from Rovi (yes?). Whereas the Rovi reply says there is a problem transmitting (or cablecasting) it, ok which is it? I suppose Rovi is in no position to criticize TW but I'd like them to put the facts on the table and correct erroneous info that is put out there.

Best,

Paul
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post #163 of 173 Old 11-12-2010, 10:04 AM
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Thanks, Paul, for the DOITT url. I sent them a complaint.

I would expect that if Time Warner wanted to, they could receive the data via whatever means all the other affiliates are using. After all, we know that other cable companies carry the data as well as over-the-air affiliates. In fact, AFAIK, WCBS here in NY transmits that data. So Rovi is saying "It's OK leaving here" and Time Warner is saying "?".

Does anybody know for a fact how that data is distributed?
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post #164 of 173 Old 11-12-2010, 12:33 PM
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Alas, still no tv guide listings and no ads using Eh75 Panasonic with analog Comcast cable. Rovi reviewed our V9 data and stated that the data looks good and we should be getting the guide listings. I was asked if I do a lot of recording and told the "The Guide needs to get one complete 3 hr download per day. " It must appear that since the data looks good, that I may doing something wrong.

Planning to send some additional data that hopefully will shed some light on the current reason for this outage and help convince Rovi that this problem is not just user error. We have had so many outages due to various reasons that my husband has the reset procedure, codes, and almost all of the diagnostic screens memorized too.

One item we plan to point out is diagnostic screen titled, Section Listings-Storage. All of the categories are zeros with the exception of Rejected. We've noticed that when the tvgos system is functioning properly the other categories in this section have numbers other than zero.

Will keep the forum posted of any progress, in case our information is helpful to others in getting their issues resolved.

Regards and good luck,
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post #165 of 173 Old 11-16-2010, 04:53 AM
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this from Rovi yesterday & my reply...

Hello Paul,

Time Warner changed the way they process the host channel, and currently they don't have an analog signal in the station which we can insert the data onto.

They are looking at their options, but we don't presently have an ETA for the fix. As soon as more information becomes available to us, we will provide you with an update.

Thank you,
CE Tech Support




Hi and thanks,

Trying to better understand this. This analog purge is becoming increasingly common, Rovi must have anticipated the switch to all-digital. It's hard for me to understand why there isn't a plan in place to deal with this. Does Rovi require carriers to maintain a legacy analog signal path somewhere in their plumbing?

I used to get the TVGOS data via Time-Warner's *digital* ch51 prior to this Spring, can you give me a thumbnail description of the analog part of that original equation where data got inserted into what would be delivered (to the TW customer) as part of digital signal?

Thanks,

Paul
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post #166 of 173 Old 11-16-2010, 06:00 PM
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To clarify, I can’t tell if the people one can get to talk to at TWC NYC are playing dumb or really are that dumb, but TWC NYC DOES use the bandwidth to still transmit over its cable 21 analog channels, primarily the ones that are also over the air, NY1 (on 10), TVGuide w/o programming info (on 18), the Food Network, 2 OTB channels, and a few more. I am absolutely certain since I split the TWC cable output to a 10 year old VCR, with only analog tuning of course, that is connected to the TV only via a video and an audio cable. I use the VCR output for Picture in Picture (when one of the channels is also carried analog) and for a fall-back when the TWC cable card in the TV stops tuning until it takes several minutes or more to re-acquire the channels that I get. Using PiP, I am looking at the analog TVGuide channel transmission (Ugly Betty) right now. When I had gotten the TVGOS data via the cable card input until mid-September, it was because TWC had the cable card tuning to just one analog channel, the TV Guide one (although maybe showing a channel # other than 18), which carried then the TVGOS data via its VBI with no problem. JS10013
Reviewing what I wrote earlier this evening, one correction is that I was receiving the TVGOS data via the CableCard input on my TV until about June From about midJuly through about midSeptember I got the TVGOS data via a split of the TWC cable directly to the non-CableCard input on the TV so it could tune to the analog version of TVGuide channel 18. Again, no TVGOS data since mid-September. Whew, what a saga.
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post #167 of 173 Old 11-17-2010, 12:10 PM
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I feel as if this is the old Saturday Night Live bit, "Generalisimo Franco is still dead". There has been no change in the still-dead status of TVGOS over TWC, and the word received from Time Warner is that they performed a major "upgrade" in September, "which eliminated a number of channels". Some upgrade!
Yes, there are still over 20 analog channels operating over TWC's Manhattan territory, and TWC could fairly easily insert TVGOS data into any one of them, but they have no incentive to do so, since there seems to be little demand. Further, there appears to be no public regulatory authority enforcing technical standards for any cable operation these days, so it looks as though we are S-O-L on this.
I understand that there is a provision for legacy analog TVGOS: a legacy analog stream is carried over ATSC broadcast affiliates and can be extracted by specially equipped set-top converter boxes (DTV-Pal and Artec brands) but, here in NY you must be able to receive WCBS-DT over the air, since the relevant part of that signal is not carried over TWC. Alas, I have no reception of WCBS in my neighborhood. Ironically, the previous TVGOS affiliate's signal (WNET) comes in loud and strong! Go figure....
I guess that Rovi is losing advertising revenue for TVGOS, since TVGOS is a feature of mostly high-end equipment, and the owners of such equipment are most certainly cable subscribers, and it looks like the trend is for cable systems to not only go digital, but to strip off any extra information on channels in order to cram as many channels as they can into whatever bandwidth they have available. In New York the last ads I could see on TVGOS were mostly for WCBS, probably part of a trade deal in exchange for carrying their data over the air.
Further, it would appear that Rovi is moving away from TVGOS for cable subscribers, as they have other products for cable set-top boxes and cable DVRs, including mult-room and multi media products (pause an "on demand" movie on your living room TV and continue watching in your car!).
BTW, Rovi's web site still lists TWC Manhattan as providing both digital and analog TVGOS data. Ah, well...
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post #168 of 173 Old 11-24-2010, 06:30 AM
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Hi, I got a reply from ROVI that mentioned "new guides" - what does that mean in our context?

Thanks,

Paul
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post #169 of 173 Old 11-24-2010, 02:57 PM
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Paul,
I don't know. One can speculate that this may be an adjunct to new set-top box software, but as you know, TW has opted for its own software which incorporates a really inferior implementation of electronic program guide.
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post #170 of 173 Old 11-24-2010, 03:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by radiotron View Post

Paul,
I don't know. One can speculate that this may be an adjunct to new set-top box software, but as you know, TW has opted for its own software which incorporates a really inferior implementation of electronic program guide.

Here in Phoenix, Cox is introducing new interactive programming guides for their own dvrs and their on demand stuff. Rovi is providing the product. So maybe that's what they meant, although it shouldn't affect the TVGOS in any way - it hasn't here in Phoenix.
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post #171 of 173 Old 12-06-2010, 05:50 PM
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Just an update that our tvgos is working again for our analog Panasonic EH75v and our cable provider is Comcast. We did another cold reboot (or reset) ~ Nov 17th. On the next day it asked for the cable provider. Answered the questions and started to see listings the following day, the 19th. We had left several messages with Comcast and was in email communication with Rovi. Rovi was glad to hear we were up, but did not accept credit for solving. We did not hear back from Comcast so is unclear if they assisted us or not.
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post #172 of 173 Old 12-20-2010, 06:48 AM
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heard back from Rovi with this question about TW-NYC. I'm kind of busy with work right now, can anyone do a re-set to confirm the outage?

Quote:


We were curious if you have been able to receive any listings with your analog device since we spoke last. As far as we know, Time Warner has switched to an all digital network in your area and you should not be able to receive listings. Please confirm.

My reply to Rovi...

Not that I'm aware of but will confirm. At the risk of soundling like a broken record, please note that I had enjoyed years of good TVGOS service via digital Time-Warner (TV Guide) channel 51 before the 2010 early summer outage when TW switched to anaglog ch18. I can't speak to the signal path between Rovi & Time-Warner during those years of good service, but it was *not* analog on my end.
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post #173 of 173 Old 04-29-2011, 12:25 PM
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Earlier this week I was pleasantly surprised to receive an email from Rovi stating that "Time Warner restored VBI data to analog channel 18 in new york city"

I'm happy to say that it's true! I re-connected my Panny DVR, set it up to search analog ch18 and within a few hours it had set the correct time. A day later it had a channel grid, and now (ta-da!) listings!

I guess I can put off buying a TIVO for a few more years.
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