Using Verbatim DVD+R DL discs - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 32 Old 08-31-2010, 10:27 AM - Thread Starter
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Hi,

I have a Pioneer 460H and a Pioneer 650H dvd recorder. When I use
Verbatim +R DL discs, it seems like you can hear the burner grind and make a little bit more noise as to compared to when burning to TY's single layer discs.

So my question is, is it harder on DVD recorders when burning to Verbatim double layer discs because of the extra layer? Does it have to burn through 2 layers, or does the burner use 1 layer, than simply go on to the 2nd layer?

If using double layer discs will shorten the life of my Pioneers, I'd rather just use TY's. But I do like the Verbatim +R DL for the extra recording space.
Thanks in advance for any info on this.

Jeff
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post #2 of 32 Old 08-31-2010, 02:02 PM
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Yes, DL and 16X discs require 75-85% more laser diode power to write than 8X DVD±R discs, as noted here.
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post #3 of 32 Old 08-31-2010, 02:04 PM
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That chart is referencing -R DLs so I'm not sure how the more common +R DLs stack up but even if the same I haven't seen a R disc anything less than 8x now days. In that case it looks like a wash between 8x Rs and 2.4x DLs, and if using 16x Rs it looks like you're better choosing the 2.4x DLs.
I also notice a much longer wait time(time from inserting disc to when you can write to it) with 2.4x Verb +R DLs but I haven't really noticed much noise difference. If anything I'd think it might be quieter with the 2.4x media, since things don't have to move so quickly with the slow burn speed.
Personally I try and avoid DLs, mostly because of the cost, but with very long movies(>3hrs) I do use them to get a better picture quality.
Note on Panasonics(using the FR speeds, which is basically all I use for movies) I must break my movie into 2 titles because FR isn't geared for DL media. If I want my movie in a 2.5hr speed (and set FR to 2.5hrs) the first title stops recording after 2.5hrs, then for the remaining part of my movie I set FR to 2.5hrs again but this time manual STOP it at the end of the movie. Not ideal and I don't think Pioneers(or older Toshibas) would have this problem since they use the MN method for in-between speeds(which I really envy).
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post #4 of 32 Old 08-31-2010, 05:52 PM
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I've burnt quite a few Verb +R DLs in my Pio 640, and haven't noticed any increased noise from the unit.

One oddity I have found is that if a single title extends into the second layer, and you try to use a thumbnail from the part that is on the second layer, you will actually get the last frame of the first layer as a thumbnail. But, if you pick a thumbnail from a title that is entirely on the second layer, you get the thumbnail you picked.

Since the Pio will not duplicate DL discs, I often make both a DL copy, and a two disc set of the same title, breaking between scenes.
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post #5 of 32 Old 09-01-2010, 12:14 AM
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There is a near-endless list of things DVD recorders are "supposed to be able to do", which they in practice only do very grudgingly, or not at all well. One of those things is burning DL media, which was marketed early on as the equivalent of a "T200" videotape for DVD recorders. Most recorder mfrs took one look at what a pain in the ass it would be to burn DL media in a standalone, and said "no thank you". Panasonic and Pioneer were about the only ones who bothered. As jjeff noted the Panasonic does not properly coordinate some of its recording features with DL media. And Pioneer did not have reliable DL burning until the the 640 and later models (like a lot of mfrs, Pioneer claimed its 2005 models could do DL but it didn't really work).

Even on the recorders that are allegedly designed to burn it, DL is a pain. It confuses the hell out of their simplistic brain-dead operating systems, and its weird burning requirements stress the burner mechanics and laser to the limit. For all practical purposes, the only use for DL media is in a PC, and then only if you're desperate to back up a long commercial DVD onto a single disc. DL is a kludge, pure and simple: unless you absolutely positively must have a very long playing single disc, don't bother with it, especially in a recorder: split long movies or projects across two single-layer 8x premium discs and avoid the headaches.

The Sony-supplied burner used in the Pioneer models that accept DL media has some similar flaws in common with Panasonic's burner design: the tiniest bit of household dust sucked into the burner is sufficient for it to lose its grip on DL media or 16x single-layer media. Unlike Panasonic, however, the Pioneer burner cannot be opened or cleaned by the user: if you keep feeding it 16x or DL media, you will wear it out. Once the burner goes, the machine becomes a doorstop: Pioneer does not fix these anymore, and even when they did new burners often cost more than the entire recorder. The burner in the x40, x50 and x60 Pioneers is normally almost silent: grinding noises are a sure sign that dust has begun to contaminate the drive mechanics. At that point its best to just use single-layer 8x DVD-R in the unit to prolong its lifespan. I have a 540 and a 640 that began grinding two years ago, but they are still quiet and reliable with 8x DVD-R or DVD-RAM discs.
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post #6 of 32 Old 09-01-2010, 08:15 AM
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DL recording, in itself, is not a kludge, there is just a lot of bad DL media out there. The only quality DL media that works reliably is the Verbatim +DL. Since the price came down to reasonable levels, I have been using them in approx. equal quantities compared to T-Y Premium 8X DVD-R. I find them to be totally reliable and haven't had a single bad burn.

I agree completely that DL burning on a stand-alone DVD recorder is a very sub-optimal process. DVD+DL allows for the setting of the layer break. Most PC burning applications will optimize it to put equal amounts of data on both layers, thus keeping the data away from the outer edge of the disk where failures always start. Stand-alone DVDR's do not optimize and simply fill up one layer before starting on the second. They have to do this to allow you the flexibility to add more content to fill the disk.

- kelson h

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post #7 of 32 Old 09-01-2010, 08:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CitiBear View Post

Unlike Panasonic, however, the Pioneer burner cannot be opened or cleaned by the user... Once the burner goes, the machine becomes a doorstop: Pioneer does not fix these anymore, and even when they did new burners often cost more than the entire recorder. The burner in the x40, x50 and x60 Pioneers is normally almost silent: grinding noises are a sure sign that dust has begun to contaminate the drive mechanics.

While I'm not familiar with Pioneer recorders I'm wondering if one of Jeff's suggested procedures for hub/spindle cleaning with Panasonic recorders would be practical for use with Pioneer recorders.

In another thread I summarized Jeff's suggested procedures so:

CLEANING THE LENS AND RUBBER HUB/SPINDLE AREA WITHOUT OPENING THE CASE AND REMOVING THE DVD DRIVE LID. Jjeff has suggested two good procedures that do not require opening the case or removing the DVD Drive lid...:

1. The first procedure uses saliva to moisten the clear hub area of the underside of a DVD, then place the DVD into the disc tray and allow the DVD to spin-up. Then repeat that procedure. This procedure should remove most of the dust, debris and other soiling from the rubber hub. Then use any of several lens cleaning discs for that purpose.

2. The second procedure is depicted (in the attached photo) showing an unmounted 2007 model year DVD Drive. Extend the disc tray and disconnect the power cord with the disc tray extended. Manually position the disc tray around half way out. This should affort somewhat limited access to the lens, rubber hub and spindle area. Then, moisten the end of a long-handled cotton swab with 91% isopropyl alcohol. (Long-handled cotton swabs are sometimes found where hobby or medical products are sold.) Use a flashlight to observe the lens and rubber hub areas. Then, gently roll the moistened swab over the lens once only. Following that, roll the swab along the rubber hub. The rubber hub will turn freely as the swab rolls. The swab should also be moved front to rear across the hub in order to remove stubborn dust and debris. Then manually close the disc tray or reconnect the power cord and press the open/close button to close the disc tray.
LL

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post #8 of 32 Old 09-01-2010, 08:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelson View Post

The only quality DL media that works reliably is the Verbatim +DL.

That is one of the few general facts everyone on this forum absolutely agrees with. But here again, Verbatim +DL is still DL. I have used it in my Pioneer 460 a few times, it does work about as well as any regular disc would, but I don't want to make a habit of it. Just because of the typical downward spiral of the Sony/Pio burner when using anything but 8x single layer: I've had quite enough of that with my 640 and 540. Another possible glitch:Verbatim +DL, good as it is, is still "+" format, which Panasonics are none too fond off even in single layer (they're optimized for DVD-R and DVD-RAM). There's always a "gotcha" somewhere, somehow with all of these recorders. The 2006-2008 Pioneers (and their sister Sony models) were ironically the best-optimized recorders for using DL media: their software handles DL rather intelligently. Too bad this is let down by the burner mechanics and laser, which would rather not be bothered: talk about the left hand not knowing what the right hand is doing...
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post #9 of 32 Old 09-01-2010, 09:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelson View Post

DL recording, in itself, is not a kludge, there is just a lot of bad DL media out there.

In theory, it was a nifty idea, in actual consumer hands its a kludge: anything that can only be made and sold reliably by just one shift of one factory of one supplier means the original concept is seriously unworkable. It was years before pressed commercial DL discs from Hollywood studios settled down and became universally playable, recordable DL with its funky dye layers was even more troublesome. Well-made DL like the Verb +R DL can be fine in the right burner, especially with PC authoring, but in recorders its tricky. The media category itself is also contaminated by the same economics that trashed single-layer DVD and CD-R: no one wants to pay for quality.

Price pressure is deadly for quality and consistency. Single-layer media degenerated over three years ago to the point where its basically TY or nothing, unless you were up for playing Russian Roulette with retail Verbatim spindles or could track down the superb 8x Verbatim DataLife Plus series. The same pressure applies to DL: making good DL costs more than consumers will pay, leaving just one supplier willing to do it, in this case Verbatim. The question is how long they will continue: as Kelson notes "prices for Verb +DL are now reasonable," but "reasonable" for Kelson or me or Joe Shmoe most likely translates as "unsustainable" for Verbatim. Given their recent total dumping of single-layer retail production to CMC, I don't expect Verbatim +DL to remain premium quality for much longer: if you're a die-hard DL user, stock up now.
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post #10 of 32 Old 09-01-2010, 10:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelson View Post

...The only quality DL media that works reliably is the Verbatim +DL. Since the price came down to reasonable levels, I have been using them in approx. equal quantities compared to T-Y Premium 8X DVD-R. I find them to be totally reliable and haven't had a single bad burn.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CitiBear View Post

That is one of the few general facts everyone on this forum absolutely agrees with. But here again, Verbatim +DL is still DL... Another possible glitch:Verbatim +DL, good as it is, is still "+" format, which Panasonics are none too fond off even in single layer (they're optimized for DVD-R and DVD-RAM)...

Quote:
Originally Posted by CitiBear View Post

In theory, it was a nifty idea, in actual consumer hands its a kludge: anything that can only be made and sold reliably by just one shift of one factory of one supplier means the original concept is seriously unworkable... The media category itself is also contaminated by the same economics that trashed single-layer DVD and CD-R: no one wants to pay for quality.

Price pressure is deadly for quality and consistency. ...making good DL costs more than consumers will pay, leaving just one supplier willing to do it, in this case Verbatim. The question is how long they will continue: as Kelson notes "prices for Verb +DL are now reasonable," but "reasonable" for Kelson or me or Joe Shmoe most likely translates as "unsustainable" for Verbatim. Given their recent total dumping of single-layer retail production to CMC, I don't expect Verbatim +DL to remain premium quality for much longer: if you're a die-hard DL user, stock up now.

I hate to keep harping on this, but my experience with JVC/T-Y DVD-R DL blanks has been very good. At least for the moment, there are two manufacturers. I know that at least Supermediastore, Rima and Meritline has them.

Of course, everything else you have said is correct, and applies to both manufacturers.

Luke

Evil is charming and beautiful. It makes you doubt yourself. It asks for one small compromise after another until it whittles you down, and it functions best when no one believes in it.-JOA
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post #11 of 32 Old 09-01-2010, 12:01 PM
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I have a LG DR787T standalone recorder i bought a few tears ago. It'll burn anything, +/-R's, + DL, AND RAM discs. I only use it to burn +DL discs since i got my PHIL/MAG units. I use Verbatim + DL's. and have never had a bad burn in 4 yrs. of use,and have never heard any chugging or grinding noises ever. The only problem iv'e had with this recorder is that it seriously over heats,but with a fan blowing over it, it stays as cool as a baby's behind. G. 3:02 PM.
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post #12 of 32 Old 09-01-2010, 12:18 PM
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I have been using RiDATA +R DL with both of my Panny DMR-EH 55's for a few years with no issues or problems. I might have one disc every so often in a 25 pack spindle that will not format properly but it isn't a constant issue. I started using these as they were the only ones available locally at Fry's that are ink jet printable. Also have had no issues with Memorex 16x DVD-R single layer, also ink jet printable. I even dug out an old disc I had burned five years ago and it played perfectly. I still have a supply of both to use up, but will try the JVC-TY discs when it is time to buy more as I see they also have printable discs. I record a lot of motorsports and even after editing out the commercials find a lot of programs are over three hours in length and prefer to archive on a single disc.
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post #13 of 32 Old 09-01-2010, 01:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CitiBear View Post

The 2006-2008 Pioneers (and their sister Sony models) were ironically the best-optimized recorders for using DL media: their software handles DL rather intelligently. Too bad this is let down by the burner mechanics and laser, which would rather not be bothered: talk about the left hand not knowing what the right hand is doing...

For some reason I was under the impression that the Pioneer models that supported DL were DVD-DL not +DL. I recall Pioneer users complaining how hard it was to find -DL media.

- kelson h

The bitterness of poor quality lasts long after the sweetness of the low price is forgotten . . . life is too short to drink bad wine

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post #14 of 32 Old 09-01-2010, 01:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CitiBear View Post

Well-made DL like the Verb +R DL can be fine in the right burner, especially with PC authoring, but in recorders its tricky.

For a number of reasons, including the lack of layer-break flexibility and the inherently low quality burners that seem to be used in DVDR's, I do not advocate burning DL on a stand-alone DVDR. However, many do and with great success.

- kelson h

The bitterness of poor quality lasts long after the sweetness of the low price is forgotten . . . life is too short to drink bad wine

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post #15 of 32 Old 09-01-2010, 01:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelson View Post

For some reason I was under the impression that the Pioneer models that supported DL were DVD-DL not +DL. I recall Pioneer users complaining how hard it was to find -DL media.

The Pio 640 does both -DL and +DL. It's just -DL seems always harder to find than +DL.
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post #16 of 32 Old 09-01-2010, 01:55 PM
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Originally Posted by wajo View Post

It's just -DL seems always harder to find than +DL.

I can confirm this. I had a very hard time getting any -R DL disks, for a long time. Like many others, I too mostly use Verb. +R DL disks in my Panasonic DVD recorders. I have nver had a bad burn with them, but I use them infrequently--only when "necessary".

The DVD recorders do seem to make additional noises when burning +R DL disks that they do not normally make when burning -R disks. It does not sound serious though, just positioning sounds.

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post #17 of 32 Old 09-02-2010, 05:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelson View Post

For some reason I was under the impression that the Pioneer models that supported DL were DVD-DL not +DL. I recall Pioneer users complaining how hard it was to find -DL media.

This was true only of the 2005 models, the European/Asian 530 model and the North American 531-533-633. Pioneer sort of retro-fitted them mid-production with -DL (but not +DL) capability: some of these machines are barely adequate at -DL, while others are totally useless. It depends on when your particular unit was made, and even the ones that came with a yellow sheet stuck to the top of the cabinet with supplementary instructions for -DL recording aren't too reliable with it. Of course, the 530 series had far more serious shortcomings beyond DL burning issues, they were very flakey machines overall. It was because of these issues that Pioneer stopped going it alone and began co-producing the 2006-2008 models with help from Sony (primarily to quickly get a reliable -/+R, -/+RW, -/+DL, and DVD-RAM drive into their recorders).

The Pioneer 540-543-640, 450-550-650, and 460-560-660 will work perfectly with virtually any disc you throw at them while they are still new, or in what I call "the honeymoon phase". But after about a year, the burner starts getting cranky and picky about media- more so if you've been in the habit of feeding it store-bought 16x media non-stop. After a year or so, you'll find 16x DVD-R or +R impossible to finalize or burn to completion, and burning success rate with DL may drop to about 50/50. From that point on, reliable results are only obtained with 8x DVD-R and DVD-RAM. Having years of experience with Pioneers taught me those things, so when I got my later 460 and 560 recorders I made a choice not to ever use 16x media in them, from day one. Because of this, they have chugged along nicely thru hundreds more burns than my 540 or 640, with no weird noises or burning problems. They burn the occasional +DL just fine, as long as I observe the various caveats about thumbnails, editing and layer breaks. But with Pioneers now irreplaceable, I'm much more interested in prolonging their durability than getting bent out of shape over DVD running time: the whole "gotta have 210 uninterrupted minutes at SP or I can't enjoy what I recorded" idea doesn't bug me as much as it does others here.
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post #18 of 32 Old 09-02-2010, 05:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Church AV Guy View Post

I hate to keep harping on this, but my experience with JVC/T-Y DVD-R DL blanks has been very good. At least for the moment, there are two manufacturers. I know that at least Supermediastore, Rima and Meritline has them.

Thanks for the reminder, ChurchAVGuy! A lot of us tend to forget TY even makes DL discs, I was fairly sure they did not, probably because I'm used to thinking in terms of "Verbatim +DL or forget it". I still think the Verb +DLs hold an edge, but if you own a Panasonic or other recorder that prefers -DL, I doubt you'd find anything better than TY -DL. Its funny how I just go on auto-pilot when I bulk order my TY/JVC 8x DVD-Rs, I don't think I've ever bothered to look at what else they have available!
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post #19 of 32 Old 09-03-2010, 12:57 PM
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T-Y makes only DVD-DL and not +DL. From a technical standpoint, on a stand-alone DVD recorder +DL vs. -DL is a wash since a DVDR cannot (won't) optimize the layer break position. On a PC burner, +DL has it all over -DL because +DL allows the burning software to optimize position of the layer break whereas -DL does not. Even though I prefer T-Y Premium media over all else, when it comes to DL I use the Verbatim +DL over the T-Y -DL.

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post #20 of 32 Old 09-07-2010, 10:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CitiBear View Post

Thanks for the reminder, ChurchAVGuy! A lot of us tend to forget TY even makes DL discs, I was fairly sure they did not, probably because I'm used to thinking in terms of "Verbatim +DL or forget it"...

That was my position for many years until I found the T-Y -R DLs. The Verbatim +R DL disks have served me well. I will not say a bad word about them. I don't think I ever had a coaster with them.
Quote:
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T-Y makes only DVD-DL and not +DL. From a technical standpoint, on a stand-alone DVD recorder +DL vs. -DL is a wash since a DVDR cannot (won't) optimize the layer break position. On a PC burner, +DL has it all over -DL because +DL allows the burning software to optimize position of the layer break whereas -DL does not. Even though I prefer T-Y Premium media over all else, when it comes to DL I use the Verbatim +DL over the T-Y -DL.

The only differences I have found is, whenever I put in a +R DL disk (Verb.) my Panasonic's all say it has a bad or unusable format, ask for the disk to be reformatted before I can wite to it. Also, the -R DL disks from T-Y have about 1% more space. Other than those two (admittedly minor) things, there is no obvious difference. They both take about the same time to burn. I was merely pointing out that there IS an alternative to Verbatim.

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post #21 of 32 Old 09-07-2010, 01:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Church AV Guy View Post


The only differences I have found is, whenever I put in a +R DL disk (Verb.) my Panasonic's all say it has a bad or unusable format, ask for the disk to be reformatted before I can wite to it.

Even +R(and RW) discs need to be formatted before the first use in a Panasonic. Some RAMs do and some do not, I think it has to do with if they were intended for computers or standalone recorders.
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post #22 of 32 Old 09-07-2010, 01:32 PM
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The only differences I have found is, whenever I put in a +R DL disk (Verb.) my Panasonic's all say it has a bad or unusable format, ask for the disk to be reformatted before I can wite to it.

It is normal to have to format a DVD+R DL. Both of my EH-55's require it to be done before burning. What I don't understand is why when burning a DL disc my Pannys makes a temp copy of the original program on the hard drive before burning to disc and it takes an average of 40 minutes for the burn to complete when the program is finished.
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post #23 of 32 Old 09-07-2010, 01:54 PM
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Originally Posted by indybill View Post

What I don't understand is why when burning a DL disc my Pannys makes a temp copy of the original program on the hard drive before burning to disc and it takes an average of 40 minutes for the burn to complete when the program is finished.

I'm not sure what you mean, but if you are asking why you cannot record directly to a DL DVD(you must first record to the HDD and then HS copy to the DL DVD) I'd guess it was done that way so they had more control over where the layer break would be. The newer EZ Panasonics don't have such a limitation(they also don't have a HDD) but personally I'd rather record to the HDD first, for one thing it cuts down on laser burn time. If first recording to HDD you also have a second chance if your burn fails, if your burn fails on a direct to DVD burn you're SOL
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post #24 of 32 Old 09-07-2010, 04:00 PM
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Kelson, what PC authoring software are you using to burn your DVD-DL disks? Iam using Nero 4 and DVD Flick (which seems to work better on my sony external usb burner).I would appriciate any feedback from you and any other AVS members on this topic.Al
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post #25 of 32 Old 09-07-2010, 04:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by indybill View Post

The only differences I have found is, whenever I put in a +R DL disk (Verb.) my Panasonic's all say it has a bad or unusable format, ask for the disk to be reformatted before I can wite to it.

It is normal to have to format a DVD+R DL. Both of my EH-55's require it to be done before burning. What I don't understand is why when burning a DL disc my Pannys makes a temp copy of the original program on the hard drive before burning to disc and it takes an average of 40 minutes for the burn to complete when the program is finished.

From the manual, page 49:

Quote:


Regarding copying to DVD-R DL (Dual Layer, single-sided) and +R DL (Double Layer, single-sided)

When not using high speed copy, titles are temporarily copied to the HDD at normal speed and then copied at high speed to DVD-R DL and +R DL. The titles that were temporarily copied to the HDD are then deleted. You cannot copy to DVD-R DL and +R DL in the following cases.

-When there is not enough free space on the HDD. (When copying to a new blank DVD-R DL and +R DL, if you fill a new disc when copying to it, the equivalent of up to 4 hours of free space in SP mode is needed on the HDD.)

-When the number of titles recorded to the HDD and the number of titles to be copied to the DVD-R DL and +R DL is greater than 500 in total. When playing a title recorded on both layers, video and audio may momentarily cut out when the unit is switching layers.

The EH55 cannot make a non-high-speed copy to a DL disk. If you select such a copy mode, it MUST make the re-encoded copy you are requesting to the hard drive, and only after the title is rebuilt and completed can the machine copy THAT (new) copy to the DL disk at high speed. The way to avoid this is to make the original copy of your content to the HDD in the manner you want, and then HS copy THAT to the DL disk. Only once did I do it using re-encoding, and it lost my chapter marks, which irritated me a lot. It also took twice as long, which made me dislike that mode even more. I haven't used that copy mode since. I just HS copy the titles as they are to the DL disk.

Luke

Evil is charming and beautiful. It makes you doubt yourself. It asks for one small compromise after another until it whittles you down, and it functions best when no one believes in it.-JOA
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post #26 of 32 Old 09-11-2010, 08:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjeff View Post

I'm not sure what you mean, but if you are asking why you cannot record directly to a DL DVD(you must first record to the HDD and then HS copy to the DL DVD) I'd guess it was done that way so they had more control over where the layer break would be. The newer EZ Panasonics don't have such a limitation(they also don't have a HDD) but personally I'd rather record to the HDD first, for one thing it cuts down on laser burn time. If first recording to HDD you also have a second chance if your burn fails, if your burn fails on a direct to DVD burn you're SOL

I think what I'm trying to say is when the original program is already on the hard drive, why is it necessary to make a temporary copy. Although I may only burn one or two DL discs per month the only way to complete the process is for the recorder to again copy the original program and then wait an average of forty minutes for the burn process.
Most of the time I do use flexible recording from SP speed on the hard drive so a program is copied optimally to disc
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post #27 of 32 Old 09-13-2010, 09:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by indybill View Post

I think what I'm trying to say is when the original program is already on the hard drive, why is it necessary to make a temporary copy. Although I may only burn one or two DL discs per month the only way to complete the process is for the recorder to again copy the original program and then wait an average of forty minutes for the burn process.
Most of the time I do use flexible recording from SP speed on the hard drive so a program is copied optimally to disc

I explained it above. It's your selection of copy mode that causes the machine to make that temporary copy. If you use HS copy, it won't do that.

Luke

Evil is charming and beautiful. It makes you doubt yourself. It asks for one small compromise after another until it whittles you down, and it functions best when no one believes in it.-JOA
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post #28 of 32 Old 09-14-2010, 10:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Church AV Guy View Post

I explained it above. It's your selection of copy mode that causes the machine to make that temporary copy. If you use HS copy, it won't do that.

OK, thanks. Next time when I have a program under four hours that can be copied using high speed mode I will try it.
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post #29 of 32 Old 09-15-2010, 07:55 AM
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Hi
Are there any dvd18 what they called
double/dual layer on bothsided

inother words dual layer discs on/as a flipper
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post #30 of 32 Old 09-15-2010, 08:31 AM
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I've never seen them sold as a recordable R type of disc, of course many movies come recorded on them but that's a different type of disc. Maybe someone else has seen them......
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