Hard Disk File System investigation for the Magnavox 537, 535, 533, 515, 513, 2160A, 2160, 2080 & Philips 3576, 3575 - Page 7 - AVS Forum
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post #181 of 198 Old 03-13-2014, 10:08 PM
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DEAD THREAD ALERT!!

Finally ... 338 movies later, my 1tb hard drive is FULL!

Incentive I needed to get around to doing the external drive mod on my Maggie. Scored most of the parts a while back, including THREE of the WD Pipeline's that match the drive built into the machine. The plan is to have two primary drives AND two backup drives.

Popped it open today ... in case there's someone out there who's never seen the inside of a 537 ...



First step, remove the HDD from the chassis, then remove the HDD mounting plate from the drive. Simple enough. Here I've also attached the eSata adapter cable suggested by Peter the Geek and hooked up the external dock. All temporary, just to make sure it worked.



Here it is displaying the index from the formerly internal, original drive ...



Here's where things went a little sideways. Could NOT get the Maggie to recognize the new drives! Error 47, and the drives failed the SKIP 079 and SKIP 013 tests. Tried it several times with a couple different drives, then brainfart ... removed the adapter and dock, plugged the drives directly into the Maggie's HDD connector, and wahoo! ... initialized properly. I was able to run a couple test recordings to get the indexes built, and good playback also. Next up ... reconnect the adapter and dock, plug the now initialized drive into the dock, and everything continued to work fine. Tried a couple swaps with the Maggie powered down, and each drive now came up properly with it's own index and movie list intact. One of the new drives after initialization. Notice the recording time available!



I have NO idea why the drives wouldn't initialize in the dock - not a biggie, but a head scratcher. Next step, now that I was sure it would work, was to make the installation permanent. I replaced the stock HDD mounting plate on the chassis and velcro'd 'n hot glued the adapter to that after plugging in the Maggie's HDD connector. Also tapped the hole in the back plate for the eSATA connector. Perfect spot for it, with good clearance from all the internals.





I made a template for the eSata connector hole by just tracing the important stuff on a piece of tape. Drilled the holes for the mounting screws, then a couple 3/16" holes at the ends of the slot for the connector itself. Cut out the center with a dremel cutoff wheel, then cleaned it up. Was VERY careful to keep any metal shavings out of the chassis, and blew it out after for insurance. About a quarter inch down from the top of the back plate allows the cover to sit properly once you button it up.

That's it for now ...

One additional item ... The dock I used (Orico 6518) has a hard on/off switch. I plugged that into a switched outlet on my Onkyo AV receiver. I always use that when watching the toob, so it's a handy way to power down the dock and drive when not in use, and it'll always be there when needed, long as I remember to turn the receiver on first when firing up the system.

Life is a journey. Time is a river. The door is a jar ...

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post #182 of 198 Old 03-24-2014, 12:39 PM - Thread Starter
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There haven't been much activity on this thread for sometime now. Glad you got your system up and running with the external connector. The main problem I've had is the eSATA cable going straight into the external bay connector. Sometimes the drive wouldn't be recognized if it wasn't straight.

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post #183 of 198 Old 11-25-2014, 06:31 PM
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DEAD THREAD ALERT (again!) <G>

Just got done watching The Hunger Games - Catching Fire. Great movie!

And I'm sure you're saying ... er ... who cares?

It's HOW ... not only was it on another drive, it was on a BACKUP of that drive!

Filled up the original drive some time back and was experimenting around with backing it up. None of my backup software would recognize it due to the proprietary disk format. Windows couldn't even find it if I plugged it into the computer via an external USB adapter. Well, crud. Lot of good movies I wouldn't want to lose.

What worked was a StarTech hard drive duplicator dock.

SATA Hard Drive HDD Duplicator Dock - eSATA USB

That does a sector by sector clone of the original drive including the protected areas you usually can't get to, and couldn't care less about the format used. You do need two identical size drives, and you want to be VERY careful when you plug the "master" and "backup" drives into the slots. Get them backwards, and you have two blank drives, right? The slot labels are hard to read, so I ended up making bigger ones to help. Short version - the original drive goes in the BACK slot.

Works slick. Just insert the drives and push the PC/COPY button for a few seconds to get the thing to go into COPY mode. Press start, and the progress light will flash during the process and go steady when it's done.

Handy little tool to have. I also use it as the dock for video drives on my home theater PC. In PC mode, it acts as a dock for two drives. I've been ripping all my old DVD-Rs to those. Gives me an extra 4tb of storage.

PS ... question came up elsewhere about the Orico dock I keep attached to the Maggie - is it on all the time? NO - I've got that powered through a switched AC socket on my AVR. That's only on when I'm using the video system. The Orico doesn't "soft switch", so it powers up or done hands free. I just gotta remember to power up the AVR before the Maggie or it won't find the drive.
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post #184 of 198 Old 11-25-2014, 10:13 PM
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FWIW, what that StarTech does is just a convenient way to do what any Linux user can do with the OEM dd command and any persistent storage device attached via USB, Firewire, PATA, SATA, eSATA or SCSI. The source and target do not need to be identical sizes, as long as the target is at least as big as the source. There are tools available for Windows, Mac, OS/2 and even DOS to clone HDs in similar fashion. I was doing it on OS/2 even before a huge HD had grown to a then massive 8!!! GB.

When I do HD cloning, I connect and inspect the contents of the source, at the sector/binary level if necessary, before even connecting the target, thus avoiding catastrophic reversal.

Back to near topic, is there a setup menu in v515 software to get the HD to self-test and report summary of results? I have a v2160 with a several years old 500GB that has lately been exhibiting random hangs in playback of both HD recordings and the 6 hour buffer. The last time I had to unplug it to make it useful again. It's at the bottom of a stack, so popping the cover to remove and move its HD to a Linux PC to test is more than trifling to do ahead of actual replacement time. I've already ordered a WD5000AUDX to clone the current one to and replace it. But, that process will free up the current one to possibly extend this thread's original topic with.

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post #185 of 198 Old 11-26-2014, 05:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmazda View Post
I have a v2160 with a several years old 500GB that has lately been exhibiting random hangs...

...I've already ordered a WD5000AUDX to clone the current one to and replace it.
Will that HDD work in a 2160? I thought the 2160 and earlier models have a PATA HDD and the 2160A and later have SATA.
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post #186 of 198 Old 11-26-2014, 06:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken.F View Post
Will that HDD work in a 2160? I thought the 2160 and earlier models have a PATA HDD and the 2160A and later have SATA.
The way I remember without invading Wajo's FAQ is the V implies A, that an original 2160 cannot be upgraded to V727 while the 2160yadaA, of which I have two, can, as mine, and my 513s, have been. Even were that not the case, adapters can be used to make SATA HD work on PATA controller.

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post #187 of 198 Old 11-26-2014, 07:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmazda View Post
The way I remember without invading Wajo's FAQ is the V implies A, that an original 2160 cannot be upgraded to V727...
Thanks for clearing it up for me. I didn't realize V implied A, or that the original 2160 could not be upgraded with 727V firmware. I have a V513 and a 515 so I guess I wasn't focused as much on the 2160A and earlier models.

Good point on the SATA adapter.
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post #188 of 198 Old 11-26-2014, 12:11 PM
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Any recent firmware upgrades that will support larger than 1tb in the 537? I tried throwing in a spare 2tb and no luck getting it to initialize ...

* Only complaint I got with the Orico dock is it's a bit difficult to get the drives in and out of. You got to pull them back straight to clear the connectors, and there's really nothing to grip, especially with the half height Pipeline drives the Maggie uses. Nothing a bit of Gorilla tape couldn't cure.



The handle folds nicely into the storage box too. One word of caution ... careful not to plug any vent holes on the drive. Not an issue here as the Pipeline vents at the sides, but some drives, including WDs, might have vents on the top.

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post #189 of 198 Old 11-28-2014, 01:33 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmazda View Post
FWIW, what that StarTech does is just a convenient way to do what any Linux user can do with the OEM dd command and any persistent storage device attached via USB, Firewire, PATA, SATA, eSATA or SCSI. The source and target do not need to be identical sizes, as long as the target is at least as big as the source. There are tools available for Windows, Mac, OS/2 and even DOS to clone HDs in similar fashion. I was doing it on OS/2 even before a huge HD had grown to a then massive 8!!! GB.

When I do HD cloning, I connect and inspect the contents of the source, at the sector/binary level if necessary, before even connecting the target, thus avoiding catastrophic reversal.

Back to near topic, is there a setup menu in v515 software to get the HD to self-test and report summary of results? I have a v2160 with a several years old 500GB that has lately been exhibiting random hangs in playback of both HD recordings and the 6 hour buffer. The last time I had to unplug it to make it useful again. It's at the bottom of a stack, so popping the cover to remove and move its HD to a Linux PC to test is more than trifling to do ahead of actual replacement time. I've already ordered a WD5000AUDX to clone the current one to and replace it. But, that process will free up the current one to possibly extend this thread's original topic with.

I did a quick search and the "skip-079" does a DVD / hard drive test. The links are all broken since the forum has changed software twice since that FAQ was written. It looks like that will also format the drive so I would look for a good link before trying that. If you have bad sectors, this disk format doesn't seam to have a good way of locking those out.

If you do try to copy the old 500 Gig hard drive to the new one. You may need to tweak the size of the last file if the new drive if it has fewer sectors than the old one. Usually there is enough of a dead spot left that it shouldn't be an issue and you can just copy all the sectors over. There is a spot in sector 4 and 5 where the full disk size and the file size where all the video is stored in, post 90 has links for more information. It looks like those links still work.

From what I can tell, you could put in a 1 TByte in a 1280A but you would only be able to use 500 Gig. It will work if you copy a 500 Gig filesystem over from the old hard drive.

Link to post 90:
Hard Disk File System investigation for the Magnavox 537, 535, 533, 515, 513, 2160A, 2160, 2080 & Philips 3576, 3575
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post #190 of 198 Old 11-28-2014, 01:42 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NOSTRADIMWIT View Post
DEAD THREAD ALERT (again!) <G>

PS ... question came up elsewhere about the Orico dock I keep attached to the Maggie - is it on all the time? NO - I've got that powered through a switched AC socket on my AVR. That's only on when I'm using the video system. The Orico doesn't "soft switch", so it powers up or done hands free. I just gotta remember to power up the AVR before the Maggie or it won't find the drive.
The external SATA units I have on my 2160A are powered externally as well. The drives spindown and are put into sleep mode when the DVR shuts off. They will take a little more power than what you are doing.
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post #191 of 198 Old 11-28-2014, 02:38 PM
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On help file links (as noted on Page 1):

Due to the AVS SW change in June 2014, most but not all links herein will work if you're not logged in. If you are logged in, links should work if your User CP > Edit Options > Number of Posts to Show per Page is set to 30, the default.
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PHILIPS HD DVRs | MAG/PHILIPS SD DVDRs* | DVDR/DVR COMPARISONS | POST-DVDR OPTIONS
*Due to the AVS SW change in June 2014, most but not all links in this thread will work if you're not logged in. If you are logged in, links should work if your User CP > Edit Options > Number of Posts to Show per Page is set to 30, the default.
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post #192 of 198 Old 11-28-2014, 03:47 PM
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Links work just fine for me and anyone posting here would have to be logged on anyway so not sure why that should be such a big deal for anyone
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post #193 of 198 Old 11-28-2014, 04:01 PM
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I long ago had quit bothering to click on any of Wajo's links, because all I ever got was tops of pages. Without links working, his copious help "file" is too big to find what you're looking for. Now with posts per page back to 30 they work again.

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post #194 of 198 Old 11-28-2014, 04:07 PM
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Originally Posted by mrmazda View Post
I long ago had quit bothering to click on any of Wajo's links, because all I ever got was tops of pages. Without links working, his copious help "file" is too big to find what you're looking for. Now with posts per page back to 30 they work again.
High speed internet(preferably fast enough to stream content) is also highly suggested, without it all one does is to sit on a clock for what seems like forever.
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post #195 of 198 Old 11-28-2014, 04:36 PM
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High speed internet(preferably fast enough to stream content) is also highly suggested, without it all one does is to sit on a clock for what seems like forever.
This page saved as 280,756 bytes HTML, 158,390 bytes its main CSS file, and there is more CSS plus images plus scripts to add to those. More than 20-30k in CSS is far more than necessary, and 30 posts certainly don't contain more than a tiny fraction of the 158k HTML total. IOW, total page weight is hugely bloated, and CPU gobbling from conflicting and repeated CSS declarations layered on complicated markup and scripts. Bad as it is, it isn't atypical of large sites. I'm very thankful I'm not stuck relying on POTS for Internet. It must be brutal.
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post #196 of 198 Old 12-05-2014, 12:21 AM
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Too bad, I was hoping that someone other than me could upsize a Magnavox file system.
I want to, but man this forum is, PITA to use. Pages are so big that they load slow and until they finish you can't tell if the link you clicked is taking you where you expect instead of to the top of some long page hiding what you're looking for deep in its bowels. After Wajo's advice here recently links were working, but they seem to have mostly stopped again whether logged in or not, in 4 different Geckos, and in Konq.

Several days ago I wrote here about what I thought was a failing 500G HD in a v2160, but I remembered wrong. That is a 320G I replaced the original 160G with. What I bought to replace it is a WD Green 500G that Newegg advertised as AV-GP, which I thought meant tuned for A/V use. I also have the option to use a new WD 2.5" 500G. Both 500s are advanced format, aka 4k sectors internally, 512 bytes exposed to the interface. The third option is a 512 byte sector 7200 RPM Barracuda with low power on hours.

My current thought is clone the old 320 to the Barracuda, and put the Barracuda temporarily in the 2160 in order to get the 2160 quickly back in my buffer lineup. Alternatively I could locate and return the original 160 to duty, and skip using the Barracuda for anything in this project. Then I can take as much time as necessary to stay mentally fresh and use the old 320 to copy directly from onto one of the 500s, instead of having to make big files to copy and employ a much bigger HD to store them while working. If it turns out the old 320 actually has a problem, I might anyway be forced to create files on a big HD using ddrescue.

First thing I need to do is decide which 500 to use, if I don't just put in the 320 Barracuda and be done with it. I'm leery of using a laptop drive in a constantly on machine, much more trusting of the larger Green 500 even though it demands more power and must make more heat.

Only after I decide will I switch and clone 320 to 320, and while the clone is proceeding (or sooner) I will wipe the chosen 500, then initialize it in the 2160 as a 500, before putting the Barracuda temporarily in the 2160. Then I can take whatever time is required to locate and follow the instructions in post #90(???) to copy from the original to the 500 and make the sector edits required for the whole 500 to be utilized.

One catch is I'm not too sure how simple it will be to use 160 to 500 instructions to do 320 to 500, if I actually understand them well enough in the first place. I won't be using anything that has anything to do with Windows, only dd, and if that's not good enough, whatever other FOSS tools available via openSUSE package management if not already installed might make the large scale copying easier. DFSee is probably what I will use to perform the required sector editing when the copying is done.

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post #197 of 198 Unread Today, 01:22 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmazda View Post
Several days ago I wrote here about what I thought was a failing 500G HD in a v2160, but I remembered wrong. That is a 320G I replaced the original 160G with. What I bought to replace it is a WD Green 500G that Newegg advertised as AV-GP, which I thought meant tuned for A/V use. I also have the option to use a new WD 2.5" 500G. Both 500s are advanced format, aka 4k sectors internally, 512 bytes exposed to the interface. The third option is a 512 byte sector 7200 RPM Barracuda with low power on hours.

My current thought is clone the old 320 to the Barracuda, and put the Barracuda temporarily in the 2160 in order to get the 2160 quickly back in my buffer lineup. Alternatively I could locate and return the original 160 to duty, and skip using the Barracuda for anything in this project. Then I can take as much time as necessary to stay mentally fresh and use the old 320 to copy directly from onto one of the 500s, instead of having to make big files to copy and employ a much bigger HD to store them while working. If it turns out the old 320 actually has a problem, I might anyway be forced to create files on a big HD using ddrescue.

First thing I need to do is decide which 500 to use, if I don't just put in the 320 Barracuda and be done with it. I'm leery of using a laptop drive in a constantly on machine, much more trusting of the larger Green 500 even though it demands more power and must make more heat.

Only after I decide will I switch and clone 320 to 320, and while the clone is proceeding (or sooner) I will wipe the chosen 500, then initialize it in the 2160 as a 500, before putting the Barracuda temporarily in the 2160. Then I can take whatever time is required to locate and follow the instructions in post #90(???) to copy from the original to the 500 and make the sector edits required for the whole 500 to be utilized.

One catch is I'm not too sure how simple it will be to use 160 to 500 instructions to do 320 to 500, if I actually understand them well enough in the first place. I won't be using anything that has anything to do with Windows, only dd, and if that's not good enough, whatever other FOSS tools available via openSUSE package management if not already installed might make the large scale copying easier. DFSee is probably what I will use to perform the required sector editing when the copying is done.
If you could post sector 4 and 5 or the first 3K of the disk data, I could take a look and see what needs adjusting. It looks like MPG_SEGMPG_SEGM.DAT is already at 16 sectors so maxed out. So that file shouldn't need to grow to move from a 320 Gig to a 500 Gig. You would need to adjust the drive size numbers in sector 4 and the length of AV001_0AV001_00.MPG in sector 5. This can be done anytime after the initial copy because the MPG_SEGMPG_SEGM.DAT file is staying put. Until these values are adjusted you would only be using 320 Gigs of space.

It would be possible to get another 30 Gigs of space if you moved to a 1 T drive. Most of the space over 500 Gigs would be unusable but then you would have another 30 Gigs of video. I've been swapped this week so I didn't respond sooner. I'll take a quick look around and see what drives your talking about using.

I'm currently running a AV rated 2.5" in my 2160A. Just one screw holding it in place. It would be easier to swap a 3.5" but it can be done to a 2.5".

Last edited by PeterTheGeek; Today at 01:25 PM. Reason: Updating 1T drive info.
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I did find a WD5000AVDS at Newegg. It's listed for $56 and is video rated and 512 byte sectors. I couldn't find any 512 bytes sector 1 T hard drive but then I didn't look through all of them. The line that the WD5000AVDS belongs to has three 1 T drive only the newest one is 4K sectors. But of course that is what Newegg has in stock.
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