Hard Disk File System investigation for the Magnavox 537, 535, 533, 515, 513, 2160A, 2160, 2080 & Philips 3576, 3575 - Page 7 - AVS Forum
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post #181 of 210 Old 03-13-2014, 10:08 PM
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DEAD THREAD ALERT!!

Finally ... 338 movies later, my 1tb hard drive is FULL!

Incentive I needed to get around to doing the external drive mod on my Maggie. Scored most of the parts a while back, including THREE of the WD Pipeline's that match the drive built into the machine. The plan is to have two primary drives AND two backup drives.

Popped it open today ... in case there's someone out there who's never seen the inside of a 537 ...



First step, remove the HDD from the chassis, then remove the HDD mounting plate from the drive. Simple enough. Here I've also attached the eSata adapter cable suggested by Peter the Geek and hooked up the external dock. All temporary, just to make sure it worked.



Here it is displaying the index from the formerly internal, original drive ...



Here's where things went a little sideways. Could NOT get the Maggie to recognize the new drives! Error 47, and the drives failed the SKIP 079 and SKIP 013 tests. Tried it several times with a couple different drives, then brainfart ... removed the adapter and dock, plugged the drives directly into the Maggie's HDD connector, and wahoo! ... initialized properly. I was able to run a couple test recordings to get the indexes built, and good playback also. Next up ... reconnect the adapter and dock, plug the now initialized drive into the dock, and everything continued to work fine. Tried a couple swaps with the Maggie powered down, and each drive now came up properly with it's own index and movie list intact. One of the new drives after initialization. Notice the recording time available!



I have NO idea why the drives wouldn't initialize in the dock - not a biggie, but a head scratcher. Next step, now that I was sure it would work, was to make the installation permanent. I replaced the stock HDD mounting plate on the chassis and velcro'd 'n hot glued the adapter to that after plugging in the Maggie's HDD connector. Also tapped the hole in the back plate for the eSATA connector. Perfect spot for it, with good clearance from all the internals.





I made a template for the eSata connector hole by just tracing the important stuff on a piece of tape. Drilled the holes for the mounting screws, then a couple 3/16" holes at the ends of the slot for the connector itself. Cut out the center with a dremel cutoff wheel, then cleaned it up. Was VERY careful to keep any metal shavings out of the chassis, and blew it out after for insurance. About a quarter inch down from the top of the back plate allows the cover to sit properly once you button it up.

That's it for now ...

One additional item ... The dock I used (Orico 6518) has a hard on/off switch. I plugged that into a switched outlet on my Onkyo AV receiver. I always use that when watching the toob, so it's a handy way to power down the dock and drive when not in use, and it'll always be there when needed, long as I remember to turn the receiver on first when firing up the system.

Life is a journey. Time is a river. The door is a jar ...

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post #182 of 210 Old 03-24-2014, 12:39 PM - Thread Starter
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There haven't been much activity on this thread for sometime now. Glad you got your system up and running with the external connector. The main problem I've had is the eSATA cable going straight into the external bay connector. Sometimes the drive wouldn't be recognized if it wasn't straight.

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post #183 of 210 Old 11-25-2014, 06:31 PM
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DEAD THREAD ALERT (again!) <G>

Just got done watching The Hunger Games - Catching Fire. Great movie!

And I'm sure you're saying ... er ... who cares?

It's HOW ... not only was it on another drive, it was on a BACKUP of that drive!

Filled up the original drive some time back and was experimenting around with backing it up. None of my backup software would recognize it due to the proprietary disk format. Windows couldn't even find it if I plugged it into the computer via an external USB adapter. Well, crud. Lot of good movies I wouldn't want to lose.

What worked was a StarTech hard drive duplicator dock.

SATA Hard Drive HDD Duplicator Dock - eSATA USB

That does a sector by sector clone of the original drive including the protected areas you usually can't get to, and couldn't care less about the format used. You do need two identical size drives, and you want to be VERY careful when you plug the "master" and "backup" drives into the slots. Get them backwards, and you have two blank drives, right? The slot labels are hard to read, so I ended up making bigger ones to help. Short version - the original drive goes in the BACK slot.

Works slick. Just insert the drives and push the PC/COPY button for a few seconds to get the thing to go into COPY mode. Press start, and the progress light will flash during the process and go steady when it's done.

Handy little tool to have. I also use it as the dock for video drives on my home theater PC. In PC mode, it acts as a dock for two drives. I've been ripping all my old DVD-Rs to those. Gives me an extra 4tb of storage.

PS ... question came up elsewhere about the Orico dock I keep attached to the Maggie - is it on all the time? NO - I've got that powered through a switched AC socket on my AVR. That's only on when I'm using the video system. The Orico doesn't "soft switch", so it powers up or done hands free. I just gotta remember to power up the AVR before the Maggie or it won't find the drive.
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post #184 of 210 Old 11-25-2014, 10:13 PM
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FWIW, what that StarTech does is just a convenient way to do what any Linux user can do with the OEM dd command and any persistent storage device attached via USB, Firewire, PATA, SATA, eSATA or SCSI. The source and target do not need to be identical sizes, as long as the target is at least as big as the source. There are tools available for Windows, Mac, OS/2 and even DOS to clone HDs in similar fashion. I was doing it on OS/2 even before a huge HD had grown to a then massive 8!!! GB.

When I do HD cloning, I connect and inspect the contents of the source, at the sector/binary level if necessary, before even connecting the target, thus avoiding catastrophic reversal.

Back to near topic, is there a setup menu in v515 software to get the HD to self-test and report summary of results? I have a v2160 with a several years old 500GB that has lately been exhibiting random hangs in playback of both HD recordings and the 6 hour buffer. The last time I had to unplug it to make it useful again. It's at the bottom of a stack, so popping the cover to remove and move its HD to a Linux PC to test is more than trifling to do ahead of actual replacement time. I've already ordered a WD5000AUDX to clone the current one to and replace it. But, that process will free up the current one to possibly extend this thread's original topic with.

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post #185 of 210 Old 11-26-2014, 05:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmazda View Post
I have a v2160 with a several years old 500GB that has lately been exhibiting random hangs...

...I've already ordered a WD5000AUDX to clone the current one to and replace it.
Will that HDD work in a 2160? I thought the 2160 and earlier models have a PATA HDD and the 2160A and later have SATA.
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post #186 of 210 Old 11-26-2014, 06:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken.F View Post
Will that HDD work in a 2160? I thought the 2160 and earlier models have a PATA HDD and the 2160A and later have SATA.
The way I remember without invading Wajo's FAQ is the V implies A, that an original 2160 cannot be upgraded to V727 while the 2160yadaA, of which I have two, can, as mine, and my 513s, have been. Even were that not the case, adapters can be used to make SATA HD work on PATA controller.

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post #187 of 210 Old 11-26-2014, 07:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmazda View Post
The way I remember without invading Wajo's FAQ is the V implies A, that an original 2160 cannot be upgraded to V727...
Thanks for clearing it up for me. I didn't realize V implied A, or that the original 2160 could not be upgraded with 727V firmware. I have a V513 and a 515 so I guess I wasn't focused as much on the 2160A and earlier models.

Good point on the SATA adapter.
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post #188 of 210 Old 11-26-2014, 12:11 PM
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Any recent firmware upgrades that will support larger than 1tb in the 537? I tried throwing in a spare 2tb and no luck getting it to initialize ...

* Only complaint I got with the Orico dock is it's a bit difficult to get the drives in and out of. You got to pull them back straight to clear the connectors, and there's really nothing to grip, especially with the half height Pipeline drives the Maggie uses. Nothing a bit of Gorilla tape couldn't cure.



The handle folds nicely into the storage box too. One word of caution ... careful not to plug any vent holes on the drive. Not an issue here as the Pipeline vents at the sides, but some drives, including WDs, might have vents on the top.

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post #189 of 210 Old 11-28-2014, 01:33 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmazda View Post
FWIW, what that StarTech does is just a convenient way to do what any Linux user can do with the OEM dd command and any persistent storage device attached via USB, Firewire, PATA, SATA, eSATA or SCSI. The source and target do not need to be identical sizes, as long as the target is at least as big as the source. There are tools available for Windows, Mac, OS/2 and even DOS to clone HDs in similar fashion. I was doing it on OS/2 even before a huge HD had grown to a then massive 8!!! GB.

When I do HD cloning, I connect and inspect the contents of the source, at the sector/binary level if necessary, before even connecting the target, thus avoiding catastrophic reversal.

Back to near topic, is there a setup menu in v515 software to get the HD to self-test and report summary of results? I have a v2160 with a several years old 500GB that has lately been exhibiting random hangs in playback of both HD recordings and the 6 hour buffer. The last time I had to unplug it to make it useful again. It's at the bottom of a stack, so popping the cover to remove and move its HD to a Linux PC to test is more than trifling to do ahead of actual replacement time. I've already ordered a WD5000AUDX to clone the current one to and replace it. But, that process will free up the current one to possibly extend this thread's original topic with.

I did a quick search and the "skip-079" does a DVD / hard drive test. The links are all broken since the forum has changed software twice since that FAQ was written. It looks like that will also format the drive so I would look for a good link before trying that. If you have bad sectors, this disk format doesn't seam to have a good way of locking those out.

If you do try to copy the old 500 Gig hard drive to the new one. You may need to tweak the size of the last file if the new drive if it has fewer sectors than the old one. Usually there is enough of a dead spot left that it shouldn't be an issue and you can just copy all the sectors over. There is a spot in sector 4 and 5 where the full disk size and the file size where all the video is stored in, post 90 has links for more information. It looks like those links still work.

From what I can tell, you could put in a 1 TByte in a 1280A but you would only be able to use 500 Gig. It will work if you copy a 500 Gig filesystem over from the old hard drive.

Link to post 90:
Hard Disk File System investigation for the Magnavox 537, 535, 533, 515, 513, 2160A, 2160, 2080 & Philips 3576, 3575
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post #190 of 210 Old 11-28-2014, 01:42 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NOSTRADIMWIT View Post
DEAD THREAD ALERT (again!) <G>

PS ... question came up elsewhere about the Orico dock I keep attached to the Maggie - is it on all the time? NO - I've got that powered through a switched AC socket on my AVR. That's only on when I'm using the video system. The Orico doesn't "soft switch", so it powers up or done hands free. I just gotta remember to power up the AVR before the Maggie or it won't find the drive.
The external SATA units I have on my 2160A are powered externally as well. The drives spindown and are put into sleep mode when the DVR shuts off. They will take a little more power than what you are doing.
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post #191 of 210 Old 11-28-2014, 02:38 PM
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On help file links (as noted on Page 1):

Due to the AVS SW change in June 2014, most but not all links herein will work if you're not logged in. If you are logged in, links should work if your User CP > Edit Options > Number of Posts to Show per Page is set to 30, the default.
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PHILIPS HD DVRs | MAG/PHILIPS SD DVDRs* | DVDR/DVR COMPARISONS | POST-DVDR OPTIONS
*Due to the AVS SW change in June 2014, most but not all links in this thread will work if you're not logged in. If you are logged in, links should work if your User CP > Edit Options > Number of Posts to Show per Page is set to 30, the default.
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post #192 of 210 Old 11-28-2014, 03:47 PM
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Links work just fine for me and anyone posting here would have to be logged on anyway so not sure why that should be such a big deal for anyone
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post #193 of 210 Old 11-28-2014, 04:01 PM
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I long ago had quit bothering to click on any of Wajo's links, because all I ever got was tops of pages. Without links working, his copious help "file" is too big to find what you're looking for. Now with posts per page back to 30 they work again.

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post #194 of 210 Old 11-28-2014, 04:07 PM
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Originally Posted by mrmazda View Post
I long ago had quit bothering to click on any of Wajo's links, because all I ever got was tops of pages. Without links working, his copious help "file" is too big to find what you're looking for. Now with posts per page back to 30 they work again.
High speed internet(preferably fast enough to stream content) is also highly suggested, without it all one does is to sit on a clock for what seems like forever.
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post #195 of 210 Old 11-28-2014, 04:36 PM
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High speed internet(preferably fast enough to stream content) is also highly suggested, without it all one does is to sit on a clock for what seems like forever.
This page saved as 280,756 bytes HTML, 158,390 bytes its main CSS file, and there is more CSS plus images plus scripts to add to those. More than 20-30k in CSS is far more than necessary, and 30 posts certainly don't contain more than a tiny fraction of the 158k HTML total. IOW, total page weight is hugely bloated, and CPU gobbling from conflicting and repeated CSS declarations layered on complicated markup and scripts. Bad as it is, it isn't atypical of large sites. I'm very thankful I'm not stuck relying on POTS for Internet. It must be brutal.
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post #196 of 210 Old 12-05-2014, 12:21 AM
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Too bad, I was hoping that someone other than me could upsize a Magnavox file system.
I want to, but man this forum is, PITA to use. Pages are so big that they load slow and until they finish you can't tell if the link you clicked is taking you where you expect instead of to the top of some long page hiding what you're looking for deep in its bowels. After Wajo's advice here recently links were working, but they seem to have mostly stopped again whether logged in or not, in 4 different Geckos, and in Konq.

Several days ago I wrote here about what I thought was a failing 500G HD in a v2160, but I remembered wrong. That is a 320G I replaced the original 160G with. What I bought to replace it is a WD Green 500G that Newegg advertised as AV-GP, which I thought meant tuned for A/V use. I also have the option to use a new WD 2.5" 500G. Both 500s are advanced format, aka 4k sectors internally, 512 bytes exposed to the interface. The third option is a 512 byte sector 7200 RPM Barracuda with low power on hours.

My current thought is clone the old 320 to the Barracuda, and put the Barracuda temporarily in the 2160 in order to get the 2160 quickly back in my buffer lineup. Alternatively I could locate and return the original 160 to duty, and skip using the Barracuda for anything in this project. Then I can take as much time as necessary to stay mentally fresh and use the old 320 to copy directly from onto one of the 500s, instead of having to make big files to copy and employ a much bigger HD to store them while working. If it turns out the old 320 actually has a problem, I might anyway be forced to create files on a big HD using ddrescue.

First thing I need to do is decide which 500 to use, if I don't just put in the 320 Barracuda and be done with it. I'm leery of using a laptop drive in a constantly on machine, much more trusting of the larger Green 500 even though it demands more power and must make more heat.

Only after I decide will I switch and clone 320 to 320, and while the clone is proceeding (or sooner) I will wipe the chosen 500, then initialize it in the 2160 as a 500, before putting the Barracuda temporarily in the 2160. Then I can take whatever time is required to locate and follow the instructions in post #90(???) to copy from the original to the 500 and make the sector edits required for the whole 500 to be utilized.

One catch is I'm not too sure how simple it will be to use 160 to 500 instructions to do 320 to 500, if I actually understand them well enough in the first place. I won't be using anything that has anything to do with Windows, only dd, and if that's not good enough, whatever other FOSS tools available via openSUSE package management if not already installed might make the large scale copying easier. DFSee is probably what I will use to perform the required sector editing when the copying is done.

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post #197 of 210 Old 12-13-2014, 01:22 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmazda View Post
Several days ago I wrote here about what I thought was a failing 500G HD in a v2160, but I remembered wrong. That is a 320G I replaced the original 160G with. What I bought to replace it is a WD Green 500G that Newegg advertised as AV-GP, which I thought meant tuned for A/V use. I also have the option to use a new WD 2.5" 500G. Both 500s are advanced format, aka 4k sectors internally, 512 bytes exposed to the interface. The third option is a 512 byte sector 7200 RPM Barracuda with low power on hours.

My current thought is clone the old 320 to the Barracuda, and put the Barracuda temporarily in the 2160 in order to get the 2160 quickly back in my buffer lineup. Alternatively I could locate and return the original 160 to duty, and skip using the Barracuda for anything in this project. Then I can take as much time as necessary to stay mentally fresh and use the old 320 to copy directly from onto one of the 500s, instead of having to make big files to copy and employ a much bigger HD to store them while working. If it turns out the old 320 actually has a problem, I might anyway be forced to create files on a big HD using ddrescue.

First thing I need to do is decide which 500 to use, if I don't just put in the 320 Barracuda and be done with it. I'm leery of using a laptop drive in a constantly on machine, much more trusting of the larger Green 500 even though it demands more power and must make more heat.

Only after I decide will I switch and clone 320 to 320, and while the clone is proceeding (or sooner) I will wipe the chosen 500, then initialize it in the 2160 as a 500, before putting the Barracuda temporarily in the 2160. Then I can take whatever time is required to locate and follow the instructions in post #90(???) to copy from the original to the 500 and make the sector edits required for the whole 500 to be utilized.

One catch is I'm not too sure how simple it will be to use 160 to 500 instructions to do 320 to 500, if I actually understand them well enough in the first place. I won't be using anything that has anything to do with Windows, only dd, and if that's not good enough, whatever other FOSS tools available via openSUSE package management if not already installed might make the large scale copying easier. DFSee is probably what I will use to perform the required sector editing when the copying is done.
If you could post sector 4 and 5 or the first 3K of the disk data, I could take a look and see what needs adjusting. It looks like MPG_SEGMPG_SEGM.DAT is already at 16 sectors so maxed out. So that file shouldn't need to grow to move from a 320 Gig to a 500 Gig. You would need to adjust the drive size numbers in sector 4 and the length of AV001_0AV001_00.MPG in sector 5. This can be done anytime after the initial copy because the MPG_SEGMPG_SEGM.DAT file is staying put. Until these values are adjusted you would only be using 320 Gigs of space.

It would be possible to get another 30 Gigs of space if you moved to a 1 T drive. Most of the space over 500 Gigs would be unusable but then you would have another 30 Gigs of video. I've been swapped this week so I didn't respond sooner. I'll take a quick look around and see what drives your talking about using.

I'm currently running a AV rated 2.5" in my 2160A. Just one screw holding it in place. It would be easier to swap a 3.5" but it can be done to a 2.5".

Last edited by PeterTheGeek; 12-13-2014 at 01:25 PM. Reason: Updating 1T drive info.
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post #198 of 210 Old 12-13-2014, 02:33 PM - Thread Starter
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I did find a WD5000AVDS at Newegg. It's listed for $56 and is video rated and 512 byte sectors. I couldn't find any 512 bytes sector 1 T hard drive but then I didn't look through all of them. The line that the WD5000AVDS belongs to has three 1 T drive only the newest one is 4K sectors. But of course that is what Newegg has in stock.
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post #199 of 210 Old 12-20-2014, 12:14 AM
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Quote:
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If you could post sector 4 and 5 or the first 3K of the disk data, I could take a look and see what needs adjusting.
I'm not 100% sure what to do, so here is everything I did with 2 320G Funai HDs removed from their DVRs tonight:
http://fm.no-ip.com/Tmp/Hardware/Disk/Funai/
tail of bash history:
big41hist.txt
from my April 2011 #1 v513's OEM 320G Hitachi HCS5C1032CLA382 made 2011-03, hdparm and smart data:
hdpd-mdr5131-hcs5c1032cla382-jq2kt1ns.txt
from same source, the first 6 logical sectors:
mdr5131-b3072.bin
from same source, dd if=/dev/sdb of=mdr5131-b3072b.bin bs=512 count=2 skip=3 which if I got the syntax correct is sectors 4 & 5:
mdr5131-b3072b.bin
from my my March 2009 #1 v2160's 320G WD3200AVVS-98L2B0 made 2011-01-11, hdparm and smart data:
hdpd-mag21601-wd3200avvs98l2b0-wcav18791785.txt
from same source, the first 6 logical sectors:
mag21601-b3072.bin
from same source, output from dd if=/dev/sdb of=mag21601-b10243.bin bs=512 count=2 skip=3:
mag21601-b10243.bin
from same source, output from dd if=/dev/sdb of=mag21601-b10244.bin bs=512 count=2 skip=4:
mag21601-b10244.bin
from same source, output from dd if=/dev/sdb of=mag21601-b10245.bin bs=512 count=2 skip=5:
mag21601-b10245.bin
log from a quick look at the v2160's WD320 using DFSee, the program I will use to both clone from old 320G HD to new 500G HD and to make whatever disk edits are required after cloning:
mag21601-320-20141219.txt

It's the v2160's WD320 I want to migrate to a 500G, probably a WD5000AUDX AV-GP made 2014-04-04 that just arrived here last week. This is the machine/HD that has had the random stalls I previously wrote about in the forum. Smart outright says the device is in good health, but from what I see in the data it seems "good" may not be entirely true. Among the smart data is shown 27036 power on hours, a little over 3 years. This DVR is rarely powered down. This HD is actually the third used in it. IIRC, magn1head.bin is the first 8 sectors from the original 160G made at the time I shipped the DVR off for warranty service.

Free space on the v513's HD is shown as 14h24m in SP. Free space on the v2160's HD is shown as 27h31m in SP.

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post #200 of 210 Old 12-20-2014, 11:41 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by mrmazda View Post
It's the v2160's WD320 I want to migrate to a 500G, probably a WD5000AUDX AV-GP made 2014-04-04 that just arrived here last week. This is the machine/HD that has had the random stalls I previously wrote about in the forum. Smart outright says the device is in good health, but from what I see in the data it seems "good" may not be entirely true. Among the smart data is shown 27036 power on hours, a little over 3 years. This DVR is rarely powered down. This HD is actually the third used in it. IIRC, magn1head.bin is the first 8 sectors from the original 160G made at the time I shipped the DVR off for warranty service.

Free space on the v513's HD is shown as 14h24m in SP. Free space on the v2160's HD is shown as 27h31m in SP.
I got some good news and some bad news.

Good news: I already had a header image from a person that posted a 500 Gig drive earlier. It has the same number of sectors that your drive has. I attached the file with the first eight sectors on it. You can just dd over the copied image of the first eight sectors of the new hard drive and it will use the full disk.

The bad news is that you have to enlarge the MPG_SEGMPG_SEGM.DAT file from 12 sectors to 16 sectors. So starting at sector number 2008037 and up everything needs to move 4 sectors higher. And sector 2008037-3008040 needs to be zeros, blank. I'm counting as first sector as 0. Looks like you have the hang of it so hopefully it will go well for you.

If you have any issues let me know.

Peter
Attached Files
File Type: zip WD5000AADS-7blocks.zip (463 Bytes, 3 views)

Last edited by PeterTheGeek; 12-21-2014 at 02:18 PM. Reason: Sector counting starts at 1 not 0. Put it back, it is starting at 0 as it should be.
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post #201 of 210 Old 12-20-2014, 01:37 PM
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Originally Posted by PeterTheGeek View Post
If you have any issues let me know.
It's still fuzzy, so here's my understanding of what to do:
1-clone sectors 1-2008036 (aka 0-2008035) from 320G HD to 500G HD
2-clone remaining sectors (2008037 aka 2008036 to end-of-disk) from 320G HD to 500G HD, beginning at sector 2008041 aka 2008040 on the target
3-edit the target
A-ensure sectors 2008037-3008040 (aka 2008036-3008039) are "zeros, blank" (ASCII 0s, or null bytes?); and
B1-overlay 6?/7?8? sectors from an initialized 500G disk; or
B2-edit the HEX sizes of MPG_SEGMPG_SEGM.DAT (s/d9 a3 1e 00 0c/d9 a3 1e 00 10/ @0x180) and AV001_0AV001_00.MPG (s/e5 a3 1e 00 00 00 22 25/e9 a3 1e 00 00 80 16 3a/ @0x1C0) (from size320to500diff.txt)

Since my last post here I collected more in http://fm.no-ip.com/Tmp/Hardware/Disk/Funai/ from installing the new 500G in the DVR and initializing it. The elder bin files were collected after initialization, but before turning the DVR back on. The younger ones were collected after turning it on, setting the clock, and making a 59 second SP recording.

Confusion 1:
The content of the zip you attached to post 30085410 is 3584 bytes, which is 7 sectors. Yet you wrote to overlay the first 8 sectors. So, how much actually should be written? Isn't what needs changing just in the 6th sector, the hex lengths of MPG_SEGMPG_SEGM.DAT and AV001_0AV001_00.MPG?

Confusion 2:
I dumped the first 6 and 8 sectors from the initialized but unpowered-up virgin to files, and the first 6 and 7 sectors from the initialized and powered up almost virgin to files. I extracted the content from your zip attached to post 30085410, and compared the 3584 byte dimg to my 3584 byte almost virgin bin file. Finding them different, I cut the last 512 bytes off the dimg and compared the result to my 3072 byte almost virgin bin, finding they too differed. I expected to find no differences, so it's unclear to me what you attached to post 30085410. ???

Confusion 3:
What is it that should populate sectors 2008037-3008040 (aka 2008036-3008039), nulls, or ASCII 0s?

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post #202 of 210 Old 12-21-2014, 02:12 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmazda View Post
Confusion 1:
The content of the zip you attached to post 30085410 is 3584 bytes, which is 7 sectors. Yet you wrote to overlay the first 8 sectors. So, how much actually should be written? Isn't what needs changing just in the 6th sector, the hex lengths of MPG_SEGMPG_SEGM.DAT and AV001_0AV001_00.MPG?

Confusion 2:
I dumped the first 6 and 8 sectors from the initialized but unpowered-up virgin to files, and the first 6 and 7 sectors from the initialized and powered up almost virgin to files. I extracted the content from your zip attached to post 30085410, and compared the 3584 byte dimg to my 3584 byte almost virgin bin file. Finding them different, I cut the last 512 bytes off the dimg and compared the result to my 3072 byte almost virgin bin, finding they too differed. I expected to find no differences, so it's unclear to me what you attached to post 30085410. ???

Confusion 3:
What is it that should populate sectors 2008037-3008040 (aka 2008036-3008039), nulls, or ASCII 0s?
Okay, I was confused as well. That file I attached was missing the first sector. I checked my other files I extracted myself and the starting sector numbers of the files are indeed start the sector count at 0, not 1. That makes more sense. I'll edit the earlier post back to starting the first sector as 0, where it was.

Actually sector 4 and 5 get updates from the larger drive move. Yes you only need the first 3K not 4K of the drive data. Most of that data is null including the last two sectors of the 4K so it doesn't really mater.

Okay, since you have your drive initialized you could just save the first 8 sectors, you already did that, before you copy the old drive data over. I did add the missing sector 0 and attached it to this post. I'll try to figure out which files you are referring to and take a look myself. You are right they should match.

The added space should be nulls, not '0's. This is the used, unused bit field for the big file at the end that stores all the video. Each bit is one 8 Meg storage allocation unit.

I hope this clears up some confusion. I got off track because the one file was missing sector 0.
Attached Files
File Type: zip WD5000AADS-8blocks.zip (465 Bytes, 1 views)
File Type: zip blank_null.zip (143 Bytes, 1 views)

Last edited by PeterTheGeek; 12-21-2014 at 02:23 PM. Reason: Forgot to answer first question on only sector 5 getting updated.
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post #203 of 210 Old 12-21-2014, 02:16 PM - Thread Starter
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Yep, the new file WD5000AADS-8blocks.dimg does compare with mag500almostvirgin-b4096.bin now that I got sector 0 added to what I posted earlier..

Sorry about that.
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post #204 of 210 Old 12-21-2014, 03:30 PM
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Back in 1990, when there many 3.5" HD manufacturers, I was using only SCSI on my own PC, and WD wasn't offering any SCSI, I instituted a policy of not buying WD products. That decision matched up with experience for more than two decades. Of all the failing HDs I had to replace wherever and however found, more were WD than all other brands combined. While it existed, I bought Quantum almost exclusively, a policy that served satisfactorily overall. Eventually after abandoning SCSI in favor of SATA, and given failure reports and experience with Seagate, I was more or less forced to abandon that policy, as the only remaining major manufacturers of 3.5" had become Seagate and WD. The 320G WD3200AVVS AV-GP I put in my #1 v2160 was my first WD purchase for personal use. My reward for that decision is failure in less than 40 months, 27036 power on hours, little beyond warranty expiration.

I used DFSee to clone the 320G's first 2008036 sectors to the 500G WD5000AUDX target, then the remaining sectors, starting at sector 2008040 on the target, which (should have) left sectors 2008036-2008040 nulls (because it had been wiped, but I forgot to confirm before proceeding). Elapsed time: 5:14:25, finding 15,998 sectors bad, 799K.

Next I used DFSee's sector editing functionality to change the 320G data for MPG_SEGMPG_SEGM.DAT (d9 a3 1e 00 0c 00 00 00 06) and AV001_0AV001_00.MPG (e5 a3 1e 00 00 00 22 25 06) to 500G data at editor addresses 0xB80 (d9 a3 1e 00 10 00 00 00 06) and 0xBC0 (e9 a3 1e 00 00 80 16 3a 06), which are on the fifth sector of the target.

Next I installed the 500G in the v2160, hooked it back up, turned it on and set its clock. It played each of the first and last recordings for the few seconds I tried, but still showed only 27h31m in SP remaining, so I turned it off.

I tried cloning with ddrescue next, directly from the WD3200AVVS to a 320G Seagate. Elapsed time, about two hours less than DFSee took, while unable to recover roughly half as many sectors, about 338K.

I removed the WD5000AUDX from the v2160, and repeated the DFSee clone and edit processes, but using the Seagate as the source. Elapsed time: 2:14:37 (h:m:sec) Throughput = 37.67 MiB/sec with no sector errors. This time I remembered to change the 320G disk size (b0 ea 42 25 e3 a3 40 25 cb 46 02 00 02) at address 0x800 (sector 4) to 500G (30 60 38 3a e7 23 35 3a 47 3c 03 00 02) before reinstalling it in the DVR.

The DVR now reports 105h17m free @SP, an increase of 77h46m. According to the manuals, the 320G in the 513 can record 129 SP hours, the 500G in the 515 206 hours, a difference of 77 hours. So it appears I did enough right. Only time will tell to what extent bad sectors on the old HD affected existing recordings. Given all bad sectors were found beyond ~70% into the disk, and in three groups, there may be very few, or even no, recordings affected. Of 129 hours possible with 320G, and 27.5 remaining available, about 101.5 have been used, or 78.7%. Most were made long ago when the disk was young, and so would be well below 70%.

It also remains to be seen whether this WD5000AUDX's advanced sector format will have any impact on functionality. For SD even in HQ mode these Funais are not capable of demanding anywhere near the throughput that current HDs can handle for HD video or other high demand I/O. I don't expect the internal 512 to 4096 and back translation overhead to be perceptible.

Many thanks to PeterTheGeek and those who helped him decipher the sector level HD content for making this kind of upgrade possible!
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Originally Posted by mrmazda View Post
Back in 1990, when there many 3.5" HD manufacturers, I was using only SCSI on my own PC, and WD wasn't offering any SCSI, I instituted a policy of not buying WD products. That decision matched up with experience for more than two decades. Of all the failing HDs I had to replace wherever and however found, more were WD than all other brands combined. While it existed, I bought Quantum almost exclusively, a policy that served satisfactorily overall. Eventually after abandoning SCSI in favor of SATA, and given failure reports and experience with Seagate, I was more or less forced to abandon that policy, as the only remaining major manufacturers of 3.5" had become Seagate and WD. The 320G WD3200AVVS AV-GP I put in my #1 v2160 was my first WD purchase for personal use. My reward for that decision is failure in less than 40 months, 27036 power on hours, little beyond warranty expiration.
Quantum was my favorite as well. Shipped a ton of those puppies all over the place. Had lots of problems with Western Digital and IBM. Had bad batches of Seagates and Maxtors. I do try to stick with Seagates as well. I have gotten Samsung and Toshiba as well and I haven't had any issues with those but I haven't bought many of them. In a revious job I spec'd computers for a photo lab film scanner and we shipped full systems with computers.

Still have a 8 GByte Quantum Bigfoot that I got from a friend that still works. That was the last of the 5 1/4" drives on the market that I know of.
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Originally Posted by mrmazda View Post
I used DFSee to clone the 320G's first 2008036 sectors to the 500G WD5000AUDX target, then the remaining sectors, starting at sector 2008040 on the target, which (should have) left sectors 2008036-2008040 nulls (because it had been wiped, but I forgot to confirm before proceeding). Elapsed time: 5:14:25, finding 15,998 sectors bad, 799K.
The four sectors that should have been nulled out are 2008037 -> 2008040 inclusive, with the first sector on the disk numbed 0. The data from the old hard drives sector 2008037 should now be on sector 2008041. Are you missing the beginning of any of your videos? It is only 512 bytes so it would only be one frame that was lost.
It looks like you got it right but just wanted to check.
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The four sectors that should have been nulled out are 2008037 -> 2008040 inclusive, with the first sector on the disk numbed 0. The data from the old hard drives sector 2008037 should now be on sector 2008041. Are you missing the beginning of any of your videos? It is only 512 bytes so it would only be one frame that was lost.
It looks like you got it right but just wanted to check.
The log shows what happened:

Code:
DFSee Linux  12.1 : Executing: clone 2008040 -f:2008036,s -d:2 -D:3
If the 2008040 means first sector to write to (which is my understanding, rather than skip over 2008040 sectors, then begin writing), the early start of both source and target means 2008037 went to 2008041. Since there are nothing but nulls from 2008033 to ~70000000, everything in AV001_0AV001_00.MPG apparently landed where it needed to. The input dialog says from first sector 2008036 to first sector 2008040, a 4 sector offset between source and target.

Apparently whatever was recorded to the HD first was since deleted and that space been nulled. Or maybe that's the space the record buffer uses, and it gets nulled on shutdown, or marked for reclamation on shutdown and cleaned up later?

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I've been thinking about the data structures you've yet to figure out. Could any of them be related to bad sector handling? Searching for "bad sectors" among your early posts turns up nothing.

Here's the output of smartctl -x on the failed 320G WD3200AVVS after having run 'smartctl -t long'. Near top it claims "SMART overall-health self-assessment test result: PASSED", yet reading down into the details it's clearly not in good condition. Besides hitting WORST for Raw_Read_Error_Rate and Reallocated_Event_Count, it shows maximum temperature has exceeded recommended MAX by 10C (though below limit by 15C), then goes on to show UNC (uncorrectable error in data) for each of its 2727 logged errors that were selected for display in detail in the log, clearly not results be consistent with reliable or "PASSED".

I ran WD's DLGDIAG 5.19 on the 320G. It claims to have repaired the errors with error/status code: 0223. I think I'll try cloning from it to the Seagate again with ddrescue. If no errors are found found doing that, I will reclone the MPEG range to the 500G.

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post #209 of 210 Old Yesterday, 10:49 PM
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I performed a second ddrescue clone to the same Seagate 320G from "repaired" WD, which averaged throughput roughly thrice last time (52095 kB/s), with only one sector error (about 90.088% up the disk).

On reflection, I wonder if DLGDIAG "repaired" by simply copying nulls to replacement sectors, copying whatever was recoverable from the bad sectors to the replacements, or actually recovered the data from the bad to write to the replacements. The process ended well short of how long the cloning processes took, less than 90 minutes. DLGDIAG's doc isn't entirely clear if any data can get lost during repair:

Code:
"DLGDIAG's Repair Drive feature allows the user to restore any errors found during the
Extended Test scan of your hard drive without destroying all data on the drive."
later CYA warning to back up first. DLGDIAG got done awfully quickly compared to how long the other programs took retrying bad sectors. Before I copy that result over to the new 500G that seems OK as is, I'd like to think I'd be better off for trying.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmazda View Post
The log shows what happened:

Code:
DFSee Linux  12.1 : Executing: clone 2008040 -f:2008036,s -d:2 -D:3
If the 2008040 means first sector to write to (which is my understanding, rather than skip over 2008040 sectors, then begin writing), the early start of both source and target means 2008037 went to 2008041. Since there are nothing but nulls from 2008033 to ~70000000, everything in AV001_0AV001_00.MPG apparently landed where it needed to. The input dialog says from first sector 2008036 to first sector 2008040, a 4 sector offset between source and target.

Apparently whatever was recorded to the HD first was since deleted and that space been nulled. Or maybe that's the space the record buffer uses, and it gets nulled on shutdown, or marked for reclamation on shutdown and cleaned up later?
Your right about the move working out even though you started one sector yearly. The important item is the 4 sector offset between the from and the to drives.

It also looks like the sectors 2008037, 2008038, 2008039 and 2008040 are null so your good there.

You've got a resized filesystem.

I didn't think the filesystem deletes data in the video file AV001_DAV001_00.MPG. From what I could tell it would just overwrite whatever was there. It does null out the other data if it's no longer valid on the disk but not the video its self. Maybe this was in the in the string of bad sectors. I have found large blocks of video from deleted titles during my testing, including video from the record buffer. Maybe there is a cleanup function running in the background sometimes and my testing doesn't let it run enough.. I don't know. Could be a function of the 51X as well, I only have two 2160As myself.

Peter
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