Pioneer DVR-210 CPRM error! - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 18 Old 10-16-2010, 08:10 PM - Thread Starter
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I wonder if anyone knows about this.. i took out the old drive that was in not only because it was starting to not want to read blank DVD's but it rejects all DVD+R discs.. Anyways I get this error now and I'm not sure on how to get around it.

I heard something about a service data disc?
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post #2 of 18 Old 10-17-2010, 12:08 AM
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The Pioneer 210 is not exactly friendly towards DIY repair attempts, you will most likely need the service remote and service dvd. What type of burner did you install as a replacement: a genuine 210-dedicated model or the generic DVR-106 made for PC use? If it was the generic, that won't work at all: it doesn't have the CPRM chip that couples to the motherboard. If it's a true 210 spare burner, you'll need the service tools, although in some cases a Pioneer recorder will allow burner replacement without the service tools. Many of us have used the trick of opening both the original dead recorder burner and the replacement burner, and swapping their green controller boards. This gives the "new" burner the same CPRM chip and number as the "old" original recorder burner. The recorder will be fooled into thinking nothing has changed, so it stops asking for the CPRM service procedure. (You can swap the boards between any DVR-106-based burners).

The burner board swap trick doesn't always succeed in the older 2003 models like your 210. If it fails, you'll need the service tools to re-marry the burner CPRM to the recorder CPRM, even when the original burner is disconnected/reconnected. Pioneer Video is out of business but you can get the service remote from Sony parts distributors as model # J-6090-203-A for about $40, or a "clone" of the service remote is available from http://remotes.com/store/pioneer/ggf1381.html (I use this one). There are a great many posts on various forums regarding "home brew" service remotes: most of these don't work, risk damage to the recorder, or risk damage to the expensive programmable remotes involved (such as the Harmony). I advise sticking with a dedicated service remote.

The service data/ID disc is available from the same site that publishes instructions for clearing the CPRM problem: www.pioneerfaq.info. From the home page, in the left hand bluegray navigation area, click on "DVR", then "Replacing HDD", then "DVRx20", then "Part 2". This will bring up the instructions for using the service remote and disc to fix the CPRM issue (the instructions say "HDD" but its the same for the burner, just ignore the final step of "initialize the HDD"). At the bottom of this instruction page you'll find a link to "leave a message": use it to request help in getting a download of the GGV-1256 or 1302 service disc.

If you haven't yet put a lot of money into repairing your old Pioneer 210, consider replacing it altogether with a like-new-refurb $159 Magnavox H2160 DVD/HDD recorder from http://www.jr.com/magnavox/pe/MAG_H2160MW9_hy_RB/. It is way more advanced than the 210 and much more compatible with todays blank DVD media (even a repaired 210 is still stuck with the long-obsolete 106 burner mechanism). Nearly everyone on AVS has moved to the Magnavox by now, its price/performance can't be beat and it has the modern tuner necessary for USA/Canadian digital broadcasts. The only advantage of the 210 (aside from being a gorgeous piece of machinery) is its bidirectional DV camera port. The Magnavox cannot play out thru its DV camera port, it just records in from it, like every other recorder. (The Pioneer 210, 310, 510, and 5100 were the only consumer dvd recorders ever sold with bidirectional DV camera ports.)
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post #3 of 18 Old 10-17-2010, 12:44 AM - Thread Starter
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yeah the drive I put in was for a PC but I had two spare Pioneer DVR-AO7U drives I put the drive in and put the jumper on master and it worked and all.. I put in a blank DVD-R and it said 6 hours remaining.. So I went to do a test record and I noticed when it got to 2 min it would pause and hang and start over again..

long story short next power cycle I got the CPRM error.. Installing the drive that came out still gave me the error.

What I like about the pioneer is it has dual outputs and the DV In/out feature..

For the time being I replaced that with a Toshiba DR430 which is a major downgrade but I don't think I need a TV tuner anymore.

Why did Pioneer video go out? I can't find any info on it..

I will check out the sites you listed but the price of that service remote for something that's really a one time thing :-/
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post #4 of 18 Old 10-17-2010, 02:26 AM
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Pioneer became a casualty of the tanked global economy in early 2009. Like many firms that had spent decades successfully focused on audio, Pioneer had difficulties transitioning to "mostly video" once the iPod craze essentially destroyed all consumer demand for midrange stereo components. They were an early leader in DVD data and video burning and recording, and invested heavily in their stunning Kuro large-screen TVs. Unfortunately the crucial USA market abandoned all interest in "deluxe" DVD recorders by 2006 in favor of integrated cable/satellite PVRs, and the morons at Consumer Reports brainwashed everyone in North America that plasma displays were "terrible compared to LCD". Pioneer had bet the farm on luxury plasma, when the economy nosedived they had no fallback products and essentially went bankrupt. Pioneer survives now only as a "living dead" brand name applied to car audio products and a handful of DVD/BD players. A sad end to one of the greatest, most innovative electronics mfrs.

The Pioneer 210 originally shipped in 2003 with a burner based on that year's 106/A06 PC burner. Check the fine print of the label on your old 210 burner: it should read as a variation of DVR-106 or DVR-A06. If it does, you will not be able to use your spare A07 burners at all, because you need to swap the original recorder burner's controller board into the replacement burner, and the board in the 106/A06 is not the same size/design as the board in the 107/A07. You would need to track down a functioning 106/A06 PC burner instead, on eBay or at surplus dealers. Some Pioneer 210s that have been previously repaired do contain the 107/A07 burner from the 2004 model 220 recorder. Again, check your original burner label closely to verify the model- if its a 107/A07 variation, you'll be able to swap its board with the one in your spare A07 drive.

You'll then be able to fix the CPRM error and restore normal operation if you get the service tools. The disc can be had from pioneerfaq for a small donation of a few dollars, which they need to help keep the site going. If you buy a remote it can easily be resold here on AVS or on eBay or Craigs List, somebody always needs a Pio service remote. If you pay $50 for a remote you should be able to get $30 back reselling. I understand how you'd feel $50 is a lot to spend for a "one-time-use" remote, I felt the same way at first. But put it into perspective: if the 210 was a VCR you'd have to pay somebody $50 to repair it anyway. And $50 pales in comparison to the $139 minimum you'd have to pay to replace the burner in a Panasonic (other brands charge twice that to replace a dead burner). Pioneer sticks you with the expense of the service remote, but at least you can then replace the burner just by exchanging the controller board with any Pioneer PC burner of the same series. All the other recorder brands use proprietary burners available only thru their factory repair centers, at a cost equal to or exceeding that of a whole new recorder. Everything's relative, subject to your budget and specific need to keep older hardware running.

UPDATE 10/24/2010: pricing for the Sony version of the Pioneer service remote has declined considerably since I last checked, to $10-30 depending on the vendor and whether you are able to order one direct from Sony's repair parts division. See my later post in answer to Hkan below.
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post #5 of 18 Old 10-18-2010, 06:38 AM - Thread Starter
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Wow that sounds bad I really thought it had really great features for the price point..

So I got the service disc I just need the service remote.. Speaking of that what's so special about the service remote anyways?

I will check the drive in the 210 but I think it was A06
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post #6 of 18 Old 10-22-2010, 10:32 AM
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A possible alternative to a service remote is a general-purpose programmable remote. A few years back when I was considering this it was possible to download the codes from the Internet for the Pioneer service remote into something like a Logitech Harmony remote. Those are more expensive than the Pioneer service remote, but can also be used as an all-in-one remote for your entire A/V system.
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post #7 of 18 Old 10-22-2010, 04:16 PM
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Going back 30 years, beginning with its analog laserdisc video players, Pioneer came up with the annoying service remote concept: a special remote sending special signals that activate secret menus required for servicing or replacing parts. Other mfrs manage to get their units into service mode by a peculiar combination of front panel button presses, or by long strings of numbers entered with the normal remote. But oh no, not Pioneer: they had to invent the ridiculous dual-remote system (one for users, one for service techs). You cannot repair the CPRM issue without the dedicated service remote (or some other device that can fake the signals). The CPRM repair also requires the service disc, which as far as I can tell is just another trap laid so no one can self-servide their Pioneer (about all the recorder does with the service disc is check that you actually have it, thus proving you're an official repair person).

Regarding the Logitech Harmony, I strongly caution against anyone downloading the Pioneer service codes into this brand of expensive remote. I have heard from too many owners who destroyed their $200 Harmonys while attempting to load the Pioneer service codes. There is something about the Pioneer service codes that the Harmony chokes on, Logitech itself now warns against trying to program the codes into their Harmony remotes. Anyone who needs a Pioneer service remote should just buy the Sony version I mentioned earlier, or one of the clones sold by various replacement remote vendors. If you insist on "rolling your own", stick to cheap obsolete programmable products like the Phillips Pronto or Palm Pilot, also consider having a JP1-type remote vendor program such a remote for you (check the JP1 remote forums). Although here again, for what it would cost for a used programmable remote and/or someone to do the programming for you, may as well just buy the real thing. At least you could always resell it as a "genuine" service remote.
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post #8 of 18 Old 10-23-2010, 07:43 AM
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I never heard of this!
The only problem I'm aware of is that the software saying data error and constantly flashing the screen, it is because the software needs to be upgraded to a newer version.

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post #9 of 18 Old 10-23-2010, 11:14 AM
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Hkan, SubaruB4 is having the same problem that someone would have if they disconnected the HDD in their DVR-520: the recorder is asking him to clear and re-enter the 9-digit code from the back panel. Even though his model 210 has no HDD, he removed the DVD drive, and the old DVD-only units ask for the same service remote/service disc/clear the 9-digit number procedure. I know this because I have replaced the DVD drive in models 210, 310, 510, and 520 and they all insist on following the same clear/enter 9-digit CPRM code you outline on your site as the "replace HDD" process.

He needs to either get a service remote and compatible DVD drive with CPRM chip, or discard his Pioneer 210 if he feels the repair is not cost effective. The DVR-210 can use the 106 or 107 drives from a broken second-hand DVR-210, 310, 220, 225 (often you find these used that won't power on, but their DVD drives are still good and you can do a transplant.)
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post #10 of 18 Old 10-23-2010, 12:11 PM
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I was refering to the Logitech problem stated in the post above mine!

You always need to reenter the CPRM code if you remove anything from the DVR. The CPRM code is not limited to DVRs with HDs.
The CPRM code is not written ón the HD!

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post #11 of 18 Old 10-23-2010, 04:01 PM
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Sorry to misunderstand you, Hkan!

Re the Logitech, I have heard from a number of owners on this and other forums that some models of the Harmony react badly when one attempts to load the Pioneer service codes into their memory banks. Whether this is because those files are corrupted, or some Harmonys simply can't handle the Pioneer code set, is unclear. In North America, Logitech received enough complaints that the Pioneer service codes are usually unavailable now from the Logitec USA website. However it is still sometimes seen on European Logitech sites and forums, my warning was to American or Canadian owners who might consider downloading the codes from outside USA.

The problem with the Harmony usually appears as a failure to load the entire Pioneer codeset, which results in the Harmony locking up and the contents of its current custom memory being erased. Often the only way to fix the harmony is to return it for mfr service. Logitech has dealt with this problem enough times to have pulled the Pioneer service code set from USA availability and recommend users avoid it. Whether a specific individual with any particular Harmony would be successful is the question: many might be OK, but there is significant risk involved. Rather than gamble with a $200 Harmony, I would recommend getting the real service remote from a Sony parts distributor for $30. Sony briefly sold Pioneer DVD/HDD recorders re-branded as Sonys, the x80 and x90 series. These use the same type of service remote, which Sony sells as part # J-6090-203-A . With Pioneer now out of the recorder business, it is very difficult to find the Pioneer-branded service remote.
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post #12 of 18 Old 10-24-2010, 04:10 AM
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Got any link for the Sony remote?

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post #13 of 18 Old 10-24-2010, 09:59 AM
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The Sony (Pioneer) service remote has actually dropped significantly in price since I first heard of it a few months ago, to under $25 at many vendors. Here are some possible sources:

If you have a friend who works for a North American repair agency, they can order the service remote VERY inexpensively direct from Sony's N.A. parts network:

https://www.servicesplus.sel.sony.co...6090203A.aspx#

As a non-professional consumer in USA/Canada, its probably much easier to just order it from second-tier remote vendors, who charge a very reasonable retail price (especially compared to the cost of a cloned replacement with the Pioneer model number):

http://www.replacementremotes.com/SO...e-Control.html

The Sony service remote is MUCH more expensive in Europe, comparable to the price once charged for the Pioneer version, but again if you have direct access to a Sony Europe parts division it will be less expensive:

http://www.findremotes.com/remote-co...rol-120633.htm
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post #14 of 18 Old 10-24-2010, 11:33 AM
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Wish I was a pro. Here's another source, not in stock at time of posting. Looks like USA only:
http://www.ued.net/ued/addItems.do?i...e=SNYJ6090203A

Not sure if you to have be a service pro to get this one.
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post #15 of 18 Old 10-24-2010, 01:48 PM
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Thanks for the links! Could be good to have if someone asks about it.
Me myself I got the original pioneer remote control bought from Pioneer EU, not cheap

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post #16 of 18 Old 01-13-2013, 04:08 PM
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CitiBear, this is a plea for advice from a newbie. I'm trying to replace the DVD drive in a Pioneer 810h DVR (the one with Tivo). Looking for the CPRM code, I find the label you describe with the bar code. But below the bar code is "CP" followed by only 6 digits. Can I generate the required 9 digit code by adding something to the 6 digits on the DVR?

Thanks

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post #17 of 18 Old 01-13-2013, 08:29 PM
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Red Aardvark, the DVR-810 (and Elite 57) are primarily TiVOs, so the 810 does not have the same CPRM mating system for its drives like all other Pioneers, and it does not have a small nine-digit CPRM label on the back panel. AFAIK, the 810 does not require the Pioneer service remote or service disc to replace either the burner or the HDD. You simply need to install another generic Pioneer burner known to be compatible with the 810, the most popular of which was the DVR-112. You should also be able to use a DVR-109 or DVR-111. These are typically available on eBay for under $50, just be sure the listing specifies EIDE when looking at the 112 because that burner was more common as a SATA version. Note the 109 and 112 are not as deep as the 105, so you might need to play with the mounting hardware and screws a little. I suppose you could look for a 106, 107 or 108 burner, these are the same depth as the 105, but more likely to be worn out. Supplies of "new" 109s and 112s still turn up, making them a better investment.

Upon removing the original DVR-105 burner from your 810, check whether there is a tiny white jumper plug setting the burner up as Master, Slave, or Cable Select. These pins are located directly to the left of the EIDE socket. If you do see a jumper in the old burner, remove it and put it in the exact same place in the new burner. If you don't see a white jumper, and all the little pins are visible, make sure to remove any jumper from the new burner. After installing the new burner, your 810 should just work normally. (I have heard of cases where this does not work, so can't guarantee you won't have any problems: sometimes the unit will play DVDs but not burn, or will only burn -R or -RW but not both. Most success stories specify the DVR-112.)

Replacing the HDD is trickier because the new HDD needs to have the TiVO OS pre-installed. Further details can be found on TiVO-centric forums that discuss vintage Pioneer, Humax, and Toshiba DVD/TiVO units.
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post #18 of 18 Old 01-14-2013, 05:30 AM
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Thanks very much. The swap worked, and as you indicated, no service remote was needed.

Cheers

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