Sony RDR HX-715 C1300 dis is dirty problem - AVS Forum

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DVD Recorders (Standard Def)

cajunboyz's Avatar cajunboyz
06:27 AM Liked: 10
post #1 of 25
11-30-2010 | Posts: 20
Joined: Nov 2010
I have the Sony 715 DVD recorder with 160gb HD. I started having a little problem. When i come to dub something from the HD to dvd, a c1300, dis is dirty error comes up.I know it is a good disc because I can take that very same disc & manually record from TV, or external source with no troubles, Sooo it's not the burner...?? IT is only finicky like this when going from HD to DVD. I have found the Prem. Taiyo yudens work a little better but they still do that above mentioned at times. Could erasing the HD & formatting it help?? I have done ALL the other things reset to factory defaults, unplug power cord overnight. It seems like a small glitch somewhere?? Any help or thoughts would be aprreciated. I DO NOT want to loose this machine, I love the DVD recorders with a hardrive.
CitiBear's Avatar CitiBear
10:39 AM Liked: 51
post #2 of 25
11-30-2010 | Posts: 3,057
Joined: Dec 2007
If the problem persistss using TY Premium 8x media, it means the burner is dying and there's nothing you can do. This "dirty disc error" malfunction is a particular issue with many older-generation Sonys, its fortunate you did not get this problem much sooner. The 715 is now old enough to begin wearing out simply from "old age", at four years most recorders do lose HDD>DVD copy functionality.

There is a small (very small) possibility that the lens in the burner is dirty and needs to be cleaned, this happens mostly in homes where owners smoke. If you're adventurous you could try disassembling the burner to clean the lens., but I don't recommend it. Cleaning rarely fixes these issues except in Panasonic recorders which have a particular known curable dirt issue in the mechanics. The "dirty disc error" in Sonys inevitably indicates either disc incompatibility or failing laser power.

Sony USA no longer stocks replacement burners, even when they did the cost was more than an entire new recorder. Unfortunately Sony no longer sells DVD/HDD recorders of 715 quality anywhere in the world, so you can't buy a new one. In the USA, the closest you can get to a 715 is the Magnavox MDR515 available for $279 from Wal*Marts website. Do not be fooled by the budget "Magnavox" brand name, the MDR515 is every bit as good as a Sony 715 and includes an excellent modern DTV tuner as well as a 500GB HDD. Magnavoxes have proven quite durable, replacement burners are inexpensive, and you can repair/upgrade them yourself. Other alternatives would be grey-market "worldwide" import recorders like the Panasonic EH-69 or Pioneer 560. These do not have tuners for USA, and the price varies tremendously depending on availability week to week. Brand new in box they typically go for $495, open box demos/returns sell for about $260. Check site like B&H, J&R, and 220electronics.

If/when you get a new recorder, you can connect your Sony 715 thru line inputs and copy over any recordings that are "trapped" on your 715 HDD.
cajunboyz's Avatar cajunboyz
11:18 AM Liked: 10
post #3 of 25
11-30-2010 | Posts: 20
Joined: Nov 2010
Thanks for the info... I don't understand how the burner could be bad,when I can take those very same disc which had the c1300 error(tryin to record fr HDD to dvd) & rcord on them on the same machine with no problem from the tv or external source??
CitiBear's Avatar CitiBear
12:12 PM Liked: 51
post #4 of 25
11-30-2010 | Posts: 3,057
Joined: Dec 2007
DVD/HDD recorders are basically cobbled-together from proprietary pieces that don't mesh well, in an effort to make a "simple" standalone consumer product. That they work for us at all is a minor miracle, because recordable DVD at its heart is a "computer+hard drive+elaborate software" medium. Blank DVD formulations have been a moving target since day one, requiring easily-upgraded or replaced burners and software to keep up. Standalone recorders are a paradox, in that they are completely hostile to these requirements. They use burners that can't be easily replaced, and burning routines that can't be updated, because of Hollywood piracy concerns. Sooner or later, usually sooner, parts of the recorder become obsolete or worn, and problems start.

Recorder burners don't generally fail catastrophically: they lose one function after another, and not always in ways you'd expect. High speed dubbing from HDD to DVD puts far more momentary stress on the laser assembly and mechanics than real-time recording, so this is the function that tends to fail first. The same disc in the same machine may indeed work fine for direct 1:1 recording, because it is slower and puts less peak stress on the system moment-to-moment. But this too eventually fails, because real-time operation uses up the remaining laser lifespan faster than quick high-speed dubs from HDD. Also the majority of DVD blanks made today are not designed for real-time recording, it works as sort of an afterthought but the discs are really optimized for high-speed HDD>DVD burning- even the TY. Then you have the brand and model specific recorder idiosyncracies: Sonys made before 2007 are famous for early burner failure with demented "dirty disc" alerts. Its best to look on the bright side, and be glad you got an extended use from your own Sony.

Unfortunately the standalone DVD recorder has always been a sort of half-assed concept. No thought was given to consistency of media mfr, or how inane anti-piracy measures would obsolete a proprietary recorder the day after it shipped. For a variety of reasons, including expensive hard to use initial models, DVD recorders never really caught on in North America in sufficient numbers to stabilize the demand. Within a couple years, consumers largely ignored them, and DVD burning became something done on a PC (primarily, ripping of movie or game discs). PC users wanted cheap fast drives and media, thats where the mfrs went, and standalone recorders became orphaned products prone to wearing out or unable to burn current media. So when a recorder like your 715 starts failing, there are no repairs or exact replacements available. Its just how things played out in the marketplace: those of use who prefer standalones are a minority with few options.
cajunboyz's Avatar cajunboyz
12:22 PM Liked: 10
post #5 of 25
11-30-2010 | Posts: 20
Joined: Nov 2010
I had read from another post of people replacing the HDD themselves on the HX 900,but having to get into service mode to format & write the new hard drive ID number in??? Just looking for a way to possible save it once it fails all together.... But all of them were having HDD errors. Just put the bracket symbol on end of url to bring up that thread


[url]http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/archive/index.php/t-702051.html[/url
cajunboyz's Avatar cajunboyz
03:04 PM Liked: 10
post #6 of 25
11-30-2010 | Posts: 20
Joined: Nov 2010
Citibear, also do you think erasing & formatting the HDD may help wipe some gitch's out ,,, will help any??
CitiBear's Avatar CitiBear
03:57 PM Liked: 51
post #7 of 25
11-30-2010 | Posts: 3,057
Joined: Dec 2007
Its certainly possible that wiping or replacing the HDD might help with your dubbing problem. I doubt it, but stranger interactions have occurred between components in these recorders. If you don't care if you lose everything presently recorded on your HDD, and you understand the service mode instructions in that thread, then sure it could be worth a try. Study the instructions carefully, because the procedure is a little bizarre (what with having to dangle wires off a particular line connection while hopping on one foot, patting your head and rubbing your stomach).

Don't be disappointed if it doesn't fix your problem: odds are against it, you've got perhaps a 25% chance it would help. The HDD would usually show obvious problems of its own before you noticed a dubbing problem with the DVD drive, such as freezing or skipping during HDD playback. It would be very unusual for an otherwise-normal HDD to cause dubbing failures, but I'll cross my fingers for you.
cajunboyz's Avatar cajunboyz
04:11 PM Liked: 10
post #8 of 25
11-30-2010 | Posts: 20
Joined: Nov 2010
Thanks, That procedure for formating was intense for replacing
the HD. Just to erase it is no problem & you don't have to get into service mode for that, You can do it from a front panel button or remote.
But i appreciate all your info, just trying to feel out there if anyone else had this problem & came up with a fix??
timtofly's Avatar timtofly
09:04 AM Liked: 10
post #9 of 25
12-01-2010 | Posts: 506
Joined: Apr 2009
I have a Pioneer 810H and I can confirm after several test, that my DVD burner will easily play DVD's, but it will no longer high speed dub from the HDD. It started making strange noises about a week ago. I burn one DVD a day on it. Finally it did a whole disk and gave me the error invalid disk. I later after restarting the DVDR was able to read that disk with no problems, so it did burn ok, it just died after finalizing it. I doubt that it is the HDD or dust. It could be either slippage, ie the rubber from the motor spindle is gummed up, the motor no longer can spin fast enough, or the burning laser has died causing the motor to do wierd speed changes trying to get a good burn. Sometimes it cannot even tell if the disk is blank and just sits there. It does read a burned disc ok though. I am curious if replaceing either the laser sled or changing out the electronics board from a similiar burner would work, or would the laser have to be recalibrated?

Since I probably will never find another burner that will work, I was thinking of maybe just setting the tivo up as a HDD machine and when I fill one Hard Drive swap it out for a new one. Or get a new Maggie and offload the shows in real time. I am glad this is just a hobby and not an obsession.
cajunboyz's Avatar cajunboyz
09:02 AM Liked: 10
post #10 of 25
12-02-2010 | Posts: 20
Joined: Nov 2010
"Magnavoxes have proven quite durable, replacement burners are inexpensive, and you can repair/upgrade them yourself. "
CitiBear, So unlike the Sony burner which cannot be replaced with off the shelf burner, Are you saying the Magnavox mdr515 burne CAN be easily replace by the owner??
CitiBear's Avatar CitiBear
12:19 PM Liked: 51
post #11 of 25
12-02-2010 | Posts: 3,057
Joined: Dec 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by cajunboyz View Post

CitiBear, So unlike the Sony burner which cannot be replaced with off the shelf burner, Are you saying the Magnavox mdr515 burne CAN be easily replace by the owner??

Aside from one or two very cheap Polaroid and RCA models a few years ago, no dvd recorder has ever used a generic off-the-shelf burner. They all have some sort of proprietary interlock to comply with anti-piracy measures. Prior to the current Magnavox models, this meant you were screwed when your recorder burner wore out: replacements were either not available at all for older models, or had astronomical pricetags averaging $250. The burner in the Magnavox models looks flimsy but has proved incredibly durable, far more than the Panasonic, Pioneer and Sony burners of classic recorders. If and when it does wear out, wajo has discovered the mfr (Funai) is willing to sell replacements for DIY repair at a very reasonable $67. This is unique in the history of DVD recorders: no mfr has ever before agreed to sell spare burners to the public, and they have never been affordably priced. I am thinking of buying one now just to store away, in case Funai changes their mind suddenly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by timtofly View Post

I have a Pioneer 810H and I can confirm after several test, that my DVD burner will easily play DVD's, but it will no longer high speed dub from the HDD.(...) I am curious if replaceing either the laser sled or changing out the electronics board from a similiar burner would work, or would the laser have to be recalibrated?

timtofly, I was going to reply to your specific Pioneer 810 post but it was unclear there whether you just wanted another 810 as a spare or were trying to repair your existing recorder. You can replace the burner in your 810, but its tricky and hinges on finding a still-working generic Pioneer DVR-106 burner that was sold for PCs the same year your 810 was marketed. Like all Pioneer models prior to 2006, the 810 used the same burner Pioneer was selling for PCs but with a modified controller board that has a proprietary recorder communication chip (depending on your specific recorder, it may also include an oddball connector instead of EIDE).

So, after you find a working 106 burner, you'd remove and swap their green internal controller boards, then put the "new" burner back in your 810 (in essence, replacing every burner part except the circuit board). Unfortunately you would also need a service remote and service dvd to complete the repair. With Pioneer now out of the recorder business, we "fans" need to find workarounds for such items. The sevice or "ID Data" disc is part number GGV1256 or GGV1302, if you contact Hakan at his excellent pioneerfaq.info website he can steer you to a download of the disc image. The service remote used to be extremely difficult and expensive to acquire, but Sony has now begun selling a cheap "clone" of it to be sure their older Pioneer-based machines can still be repaired. The part number is J-6090-203-A, in the USA authorized techs can buy it for as little as $12 direct from Sony or the general public can pay $25 from retail remote websites like this. I'll give more complete instructions in a reply to your specific 810 post.
wajo's Avatar wajo
12:25 PM Liked: 142
post #12 of 25
12-02-2010 | Posts: 14,089
Joined: Dec 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by cajunboyz View Post

"Magnavoxes have proven quite durable, replacement burners are inexpensive, and you can repair/upgrade them yourself. "
CitiBear, So unlike the Sony burner which cannot be replaced with off the shelf burner, Are you saying the Magnavox mdr515 burne CAN be easily replace by the owner??

The burner replacement procedure is described here, with photos.
cajunboyz's Avatar cajunboyz
02:12 PM Liked: 10
post #13 of 25
12-02-2010 | Posts: 20
Joined: Nov 2010
So Funai will have replacement burners for the Magnavox??? not the Sony 715??
CitiBear's Avatar CitiBear
10:37 PM Liked: 51
post #14 of 25
12-02-2010 | Posts: 3,057
Joined: Dec 2007
Burners are not interchangeable among different brands of recorders at all, so no, Funai does not supply burners for anything but the Magnavox/Phillips/recent Toshiba models they make.

The only source for a Sony 715 burner is Sony, but they don't stock them anymore (there may be a leftover burner or two at your local Sony service center, you could ask, but if they have one expect a $300 repair quote). The 715 and followup 725 series were vastly more popular in Europe and Asia, its almost impossible to track down a second-hand North American version today. The last Sony DVD/HDD sold here was the Canada-only RDR-HX780, which was really a Pioneer 560 and used the (arguably superior) Pioneer operating system. Sony and Pioneer co-produced their recorders from 2006 thru 2008, the last few were near-identical except for their remotes and Sonys exclusion of DVD-RAM recording. Both the Pioneer and Sony 2006-2008 models used Sony burners, but they're incompatible with the previous x15 and x25 Sony recorders.

Sony no longer sells any DVD/HDD recorders based on their own designs: once Pioneer went bankrupt and that partnership collapsed, Sony turned to Samsung to entirely make their recorders for them. The Samsung/Sonys are sold only in Europe/Asia, where they have received the worst reviews of any DVD/HDD recorders I can remember. Apparently they are a giant step backwards, with less functionality than a 2002 model and horrendous video quality.
camiddleman's Avatar camiddleman
01:35 PM Liked: 10
post #15 of 25
01-05-2012 | Posts: 1
Joined: Jan 2012
I own the same Sony 715. If you still have this product I can fix your problem:

The drive rubber that spins the disc is dirty (glazed). The reason it records at reg. speed is because it's easier to grip the discs @ lower speeds. There is only one sure way to correct this problem which I do regularly. If you are prepared to do this, please write back to me and I will show you how to get it working. (I've kept mine going now for over 7 years using this method).
camiddleman
Super Eye's Avatar Super Eye
04:31 PM Liked: 20
post #16 of 25
01-07-2012 | Posts: 958
Joined: Sep 2009
@camiddleman
Instead of private messaging the possible fix - why not share the info out in the open with everyone?

I'm sure you would help a few current members that may still own a 715 and I'm sure you would help the occasional 715 owner that never heard of this forum but googled looking for a fix for their slipping 715.

Feel free to put in the usual disclaimer At your own risk Not responsible for any damage this may cause etc etc.
cajunboyz's Avatar cajunboyz
08:47 PM Liked: 10
post #17 of 25
05-09-2013 | Posts: 20
Joined: Nov 2010
Cam Middleman; hit me up @ gbllcl@rtconline on the Sony 715 FIX of drive rubber that spins the disc is dirty (glazed).
Thanks
cajunboyz's Avatar cajunboyz
05:56 AM Liked: 10
post #18 of 25
05-12-2013 | Posts: 20
Joined: Nov 2010
I wish camiddleman would respond back, i would like to see his fix/procedure for cleaning the rubber glazed disc drive which has kept his Sony 715 going for years...
jjeff's Avatar jjeff
09:20 AM Liked: 98
post #19 of 25
05-12-2013 | Posts: 9,925
Joined: Nov 2007
Other than his one post camiddleman hasn't posted back, my guess is unless he's subscribed to this thread that we may never here back from him.
While I don't have a Sony I do have Panasonics and am quite familiar with what he's talking about. The bottom spindle where the disc sits has probably gotten hard and not grippy so it's not able to fully hold the disc from slipping. If you can take the drive cover off and access the spindle all you have to do is clean it with a Q-tip, a particularly bad rubber may require something like re-grip which is applied with a Q-tip, allowed to sit for a little while and then wiped off. It kind of dissolves off the top dead layer of rubber and exposes fresh grippy rubber.
If you can't take the drive apart(as is apparently the case with Pioneer DVDRs) you could try and clean the spindle with a long wooden handled Q-tip. What you do is to eject the tray and then unplug the machine. You can then gently move the tray in and out to allow a partial cleaning of the spindle. Using this method I wouldn't use regrip since you don't want to accidentally get it on something else and you also want to make sure you get it all off, something that would be hard to do just working through the front slot.
For cleaning the spindle you could use iso alcohol or what I use is the same thing I used to clean video tape heads, something that doesn't leave a residue and won't harm plastics.
krazykanuck's Avatar krazykanuck
08:52 AM Liked: 10
post #20 of 25
05-13-2013 | Posts: 19
Joined: Apr 2011
Hi cajunboyz, I bought 3 Sony 715, 2 of them were very used, and had the dreaded "disc dirty c1300" problem. As jjeff explained it's the rubber that's dirty and doesn't grip. A good sign of that happening is you can hear some "grinding" noise when the drive tries to recognize the disc. I haven't opened the drive yet, there's a lot of stuff to dismantle to get to it so what I do is I have the tray open and I take one of my bad discs (coaster) and apply iso alcohol, with a Q-Tip, on the transparent inner edge of the disc, top and bottom, and also on the inner edge of the hole of the disc. I repeat this a number of times, maybe 5. I also pass a dvd lens cleaner after I've done this to clean\polish off any the spray over of alcohol on the lens.

Afterwards I use a blank disc and apply a very light coat of the alcohol on the edges just before I want to burn the disc. Once in a while I'll repeat the "coaster" treatment

This is only a temporary fix, but has been my temporary fix for the last 4 years !!! Good luck
cajunboyz's Avatar cajunboyz
01:54 PM Liked: 10
post #21 of 25
05-13-2013 | Posts: 20
Joined: Nov 2010
Thanks for all the HELP replies thats been coming..
At krazykanuck, when you say temporary fix, did you mean you did that once & it has been working 4 years straight??? OR you had to repeat this procedure mulitple times in 4 years??? LMK
jjeff's Avatar jjeff
02:24 PM Liked: 98
post #22 of 25
05-13-2013 | Posts: 9,925
Joined: Nov 2007
I'm guessing multiple times/year. I do a similar thing with a few of my Panasonics that are towards the bottom of a stack and would take a long time to take apart. I slightly moisten my clean index finger with saliva and then run my finger around the clear inner bottom spindle area of a DVD(only the middle part and not the part that gets burned over), just a film is all that is needed. I immediately insert the DVD in the machine and I believe the saliva has just enough moisture to make the DVD stay clamped to the spindle. I've had DVDs that grind when I insert them, I take them out, do my little trick and all is well. Note I leave the DVD in the machine and record and finalize the DVD just fine. After you've done this for several DVDs you may not need to do it for many times but as soon as I hear the drive getting noisy I repeat my procedure. It seems to be kind of similar to what krazykanuck does but since I've always got saliva handy and after many years of doing this with no issues, I'm sticking to my method smile.gif

Another trick for using a machine with a slipping spindle is the brand of DVD also makes a big difference. My preferred brand is Verbatim AZO -R discs, I've also been known to use Verbatim life series(generally what you bet B&M) but I've noticed they are far more likely to slip than the slightly more expensive AZO discs. The ultimate DVDs to use for a slipping spindle are Taiyo Yuden DVDs which have a slightly tactile bottom. They are only available mail order and because they are tactile and the top is a mirror finish they attract dust and fingerprints like crazy but they do grip the spindle very well. IMO the best place to purchase them is SMS which just happens to have a sale on the best discs for DVDR use, 8x -R, currently $27.99/100 and free shipping with orders of 2 or more spindles.
For whaterver reason I can't seem to be able to add a link to the specific DVDs, click on -R then look for the 8x shinny top premium discs.
cajunboyz's Avatar cajunboyz
02:48 PM Liked: 10
post #23 of 25
05-13-2013 | Posts: 20
Joined: Nov 2010
Thanks jjeff, And a few years ago, that is what i noticed the taiyo yudons would work where as others didn't. Now, when trying to FAST burn the taiyo yudens gives that C1300 dis is dirty error, but take that same disc & it will burn just fine at normal speed.... I have FLET & STILL believe that it was something minor causing this & as mentioned above from you nice members, it seems that is the culprit... I may copy all this info & bring it to the local electronics guy & maybe he can dis assemble to get to it .??? I just dont know the amount of dismantling there is & if i could do it?? I LOVE the machine & do believ this will get me going again fo years.
cajunboyz's Avatar cajunboyz
02:48 PM Liked: 10
post #24 of 25
05-13-2013 | Posts: 20
Joined: Nov 2010
Thanks jjeff, And a few years ago, that is what i noticed the taiyo yudons would work where as others didn't. Now, when trying to FAST burn the taiyo yudens gives that C1300 dis is dirty error, but take that same disc & it will burn just fine at normal speed.... I have FLET & STILL believe that it was something minor causing this & as mentioned above from you nice members, it seems that is the culprit... I may copy all this info & bring it to the local electronics guy & maybe he can dis assemble to get to it .??? I just dont know the amount of dismantling there is & if i could do it?? I LOVE the machine & do believ this will get me going again fo years.
krazykanuck's Avatar krazykanuck
10:54 AM Liked: 10
post #25 of 25
05-14-2013 | Posts: 19
Joined: Apr 2011
It is a temporary fix, I don't use the 715 very often, one a few times a week and I keep a cleaning kit close by, the other 2 715s I use for specific projects once in a while. I've done the repeated method with a good amount of alcohol as I'm just using a coaster and it shoots an overspray of alcohol on the media side of the coaster disc. I've done this once or twice in the last 3 years and I've actually got into the habit of doing as jjeff said, just a film (no overspray) every other time when using a blank preventing overspray.
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