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post #1 of 15 Old 03-11-2011, 09:50 AM - Thread Starter
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Good afternoon.

I have been convinced that I should find a 1x1 DVD duplicator to archive programming from the less reliable "massive box store" media to TY.

Are there any current reliable and affordable machines?

SMS offers one for $126.........but is it reliable?

I would like the ability to verify that the copy is good after the burn.

What other features are usefull (not just frivolous)?

Thanks for your time.
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post #2 of 15 Old 03-11-2011, 10:27 AM
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Starting from this post, you can find a lot of discussion about these duplicators.

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post #3 of 15 Old 03-11-2011, 01:38 PM
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I didn't see it mentioned in that link(and for two pages after) but the one feature I'm looking for in a duplicator is the ability to control not only the write speed(which many but not all have) but also the read speed(which only the ~$200 models seem to have). The reason I think that's important is because if you've got a flaky DVD to start out with it may read OK at realtime or a fairly slow X but may not read at 16x(or whatever the duplicator uses).
I don't know if this theory is true but I do know I had problems with several home recorded DVDs I tried to copy on my PC. They would play through fine at realtime on my players and they would even copy HS on my computer(using DVD copying software) and pass the verification option, but when I went back to play the DVDs they skipped and locked up like crazy in spots My PC copying software has adjustments for write speed but not for read speed.
Unfortunately this feature knocks out most if not all the sub $200 duplicators and I'm not sure if I want to spend >$200 for such a product
Both Church AV Guy and Digado seem to be having luck with their ~$100 Copy Pal products(purchased from SMS I believe) so maybe my discs were just a fluke, I just don't know. If I were copying from a commercial NCP'd DVD I'm sure the Pal would work(I think the pits are easier to read than dye changes like on our DVDRs) but almost all of my copying would be from home recorded DVDs of similar quality to the ones I had the problems with.
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post #4 of 15 Old 03-11-2011, 03:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjeff View Post

...I don't know if this theory is true but I do know I had problems with several home recorded DVDs I tried to copy on my PC. They would play through fine at realtime on my players and they would even copy HS on my computer(using DVD copying software) and pass the verification option, but when I went back to play the DVDs they skipped and locked up like crazy in spotsMy PC copying software has adjustments for write speed but not for read speed...

Have you tried ImgBurn?

I just looked at v2.5.0.0 (on my antique Gateway M305CRV w/WinXP Home) and it gives me the option to set READ speed 'From' / 'To'.

GOOGLE: "burn OR write dvd set read speed" also suggested "Nero DriveSpeed". It allowed me to ADD 1X to the 'Dropdown Box', which originally only had 4X and MAX, but, 1X wouldn't 'apply'. A post on Club MyCE indicated a firmware upgrade may be necessary.

Just tossing out a few ideas for you to 'Experiment' with - see if reading @ 1X via ImgBurn actually allows you to make an error-free copy.

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post #5 of 15 Old 03-11-2011, 06:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjeff View Post

I didn't see it mentioned in that link(and for two pages after) but the one feature I'm looking for in a duplicator is the ability to control not only the write speed(which many but not all have) but also the read speed(which only the ~$200 models seem to have). The reason I think that's important is because if you've got a flaky DVD to start out with it may read OK at realtime or a fairly slow X but may not read at 16x(or whatever the duplicator uses).
I don't know if this theory is true but I do know I had problems with several home recorded DVDs I tried to copy on my PC. They would play through fine at realtime on my players and they would even copy HS on my computer(using DVD copying software) and pass the verification option, but when I went back to play the DVDs they skipped and locked up like crazy in spots My PC copying software has adjustments for write speed but not for read speed.
Unfortunately this feature knocks out most if not all the sub $200 duplicators and I'm not sure if I want to spend >$200 for such a product
Both Church AV Guy and Digado seem to be having luck with their ~$100 Copy Pal products(purchased from SMS I believe) so maybe my discs were just a fluke, I just don't know. If I were copying from a commercial NCP'd DVD I'm sure the Pal would work(I think the pits are easier to read than dye changes like on our DVDRs) but almost all of my copying would be from home recorded DVDs of similar quality to the ones I had the problems with.

I have the earlier CopyPal model purchased in March 2010 for ($99) on sale through SMS. So far I've had no difficulies with a duplicating output around 500 DVDs, mostly from 8x Taiyo Yuden Premium Line DVD-R "masters" (of a commentary program where the host regularly suggests recording his programs for freely sharing the recordings with others). The regular duplication target discs are 16x TY Value Line (TYG03), 16X Verbatim (MCC) AZO series media or 16x Verbatim Life Series (CMC) media and 16x Magnavox (CMC) media. In my area various CMC manufactured brands are often found as low as $12.99 per spindle of 100 DVDs.

My CopyPal does not provide controls for adjusting read or write speeds. Copying to 16x media is marginally faster than copying to 8x media, either speed media taking a little more than five minutes per DVD from the first beep (just before the burning starts) to the disc tray opening (with a burned and finalized DVD).

I've (perhaps) duplicated another one hundred DVDs from a variety of earlier "master" DVDs, 8x and 16x TY, 8x and 16x Maxell, 16x Sony, 8x and 16x Verbatim "AZO" series DVDs--as well as landfill grade media, 16x TDK, 16x Memorex and very few 16x HP DVDs among other inferior CMC products.

I've had a few failures when attempting to copy from earlier Memorex and TDK CMC "masters." Generally, earlier Sony and Maxell "master" media have not presented difficulties during duplication. I don't recall checking the MITs with Sony DVDs but IIRC Maxell DVDs usually had Prodisc or Ritek MITs.

Beginning in 2008 I've used 8x TY media in my Panasonic and Funai-manufactured recorders, Philips, Magnavox, PYE and Toshiba. 16x media is used exclusively for duplication or in computer burners.

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post #6 of 15 Old 03-12-2011, 07:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjeff View Post


I don't know if this theory is true but I do know I had problems with several home recorded DVDs I tried to copy on my PC. They would play through fine at realtime on my players and they would even copy HS on my computer(using DVD copying software) and pass the verification option, but when I went back to play the DVDs they skipped and locked up like crazy in spots My PC copying software has adjustments for write speed but not for read speed.


You had a lockup / skipping problem when you went back and played the DVD on what? How old is the playback unit?

I had a similar problem with random DVDs that I recorded/copied. Played fine on my PC, but not on my personal DVD player. The same DVD played fine on some other DVD players.

That somewhat problematic DVD player bit the dust about year after I started to do my own DVD recordings. The same "defective" DVDs play fine on my replacement Bluray player.
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post #7 of 15 Old 03-12-2011, 08:20 AM
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Maybe my post was a little misleading, after the copy the lockups were part of the copied DVD. They would lockup and skip in the same parts no matter what DVD player I tried(tried 1/2 dozen different ones). My original burnt DVDs would stutter briefly on most(but not all) of my players around the problem areas but that was more erratic, sometimes they would skip sometimes not. I'm guessing the lockups were recorded as part of the copy and it's not actually the copy that's locking up(if that makes sense). IOW with my copies the DVD counter keeps going even during the freezes, on the originals the counter freezes or jumps during the bad areas.
What I don't know is why the copy passed the verification process if it wasn't a 100% copy it should have failed verification
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post #8 of 15 Old 03-12-2011, 11:33 AM - Thread Starter
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The SMS CopyPal II 1x1 has a very attractive price point for those of us who want to simply backup programming on better quality media.

Is there any evidence that the dups are different in any way from the original in either video or audio quality?

Thanks for your time.

PS: Does anybody know how I can get a copy of the user manual for this unit? SMS doesn't seem to be responding.
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post #9 of 15 Old 03-12-2011, 12:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce A View Post

The SMS CopyPal II 1x1 has a very attractive price point for those of us who want to simply backup programming on better quality media.

Is there any evidence that the dups are different in any way from the original in either video or audio quality?

Thanks for your time.

PS: Does anybody know how I can get a copy of the user manual for this unit? SMS doesn't seem to be responding.

The duplicated discs are the same as the master disc.

My original CopyPal came with a one page instruction sheet.

I will paraphrase the instruction sheet:

1. Power the unit on.

2. Place the original CD or DVD in the top drive and close the tray.

3. Place target CD or DVD in the bottom drive and close the tray.

4. Disc tray will open with burned and finalized CD or DVD.

5. After duplicating disc(s) remove original CD or DVD and power off unit.

Occasionally my CopyPal will reopen one or both disc trays shortly after closing the disc trays. In that case I repeat steps 2 and 3. After briefly reading the original disc there will be one beep, after which the burning starts. While the burning is going on the CopyPal is loud. Then it quiets down when burning and finalizing has completed, after which the bottom disc tray opens with the duplicate.

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post #10 of 15 Old 03-13-2011, 05:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjeff View Post

Maybe my post was a little misleading, after the copy the lockups were part of the copied DVD. They would lockup and skip in the same parts no matter what DVD player I tried(tried 1/2 dozen different ones). My original burnt DVDs would stutter briefly on most(but not all) of my players around the problem areas but that was more erratic, sometimes they would skip sometimes not. I'm guessing the lockups were recorded as part of the copy and it's not actually the copy that's locking up(if that makes sense). IOW with my copies the DVD counter keeps going even during the freezes, on the originals the counter freezes or jumps during the bad areas.
What I don't know is why the copy passed the verification process if it wasn't a 100% copy it should have failed verification



You probably have a read error. I don't think that verification tells you anything about that. Crap in equals crap out.


I have an option to check for read errors on my PC. I have never tried it. Not sure what the defect mangement function does either.



LL
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post #11 of 15 Old 03-13-2011, 06:48 AM
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We're kind of hijacking Bruce A's thread but I did some success using the program C.T.L. recommended(thanks C.T.L.) ImgBurn. It copied a home recorded DVD which was in a very bad state. It did take several hours to read the disc and upon playback for ~ the last 10 minutes the copy stuttered and broke up but at least the copy never totally locked up or made my DVD player sound terrible as it tried to play it back.
I'm also having second thoughts about the importance of controllable read speed. It was pointed out to me that if a computer(or probably duplicator) detects errors it will automatically slow down, IOW no need for me to slow down the whole reading cycle if only a few areas are having problems

BTW CyberLink Power2Go is the preinstalled program I use on my computer to burn DVDs copied by Shrink. I always use the DATA option and answer YES to the question if it's video I'm burning. I've never used that program to copy my DVDs but I'll have to check it out. I use Shrink or now ImgBurn to copy the DVD and DVDs I copied with ImgBurn I also use ImgBurn to burn them.

I guess a good question to ask about the standalone duplicators would be, do they error out after a certain time or do they keep trying? I'm impressed ImgBurn kept chugging along ever after several hours. If it had given up I'd not been able to make at least a partially playable copy and partially playable is better than none at all.
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post #12 of 15 Old 11-01-2011, 07:34 PM
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I , too, use cyberlink, I have usually used the Express feature, what does this do (or does not do) compared to the regular burn. All I know is thatr it talked like an HOUR to copy a DL (-R format) disc...UGH....
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post #13 of 15 Old 11-02-2011, 11:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjeff View Post

...I guess a good question to ask about the standalone duplicators would be, do they error out after a certain time or do they keep trying? I'm impressed ImgBurn kept chugging along ever after several hours. If it had given up I'd not been able to make at least a partially playable copy and partially playable is better than none at all.

All three of the stand-alone duplicators I have used, had a time-out period. It was no where near the hours you cite. After a set number of read attempts, it stops and says that the source disk is unreadable or corrupt. You can see the read speed change as the duplicator attempts to access the content, going down in speed all the way to .1x if necessary (maybe even lower, but that is as low as the display goes).

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post #14 of 15 Old 11-02-2011, 02:16 PM
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All I know is thatr it talked like an HOUR to copy a DL (-R format) disc...UGH....

With my CopyPal 1:1 duplicator it takes ~27 minutes to rip and burn a DL disc(using a Verb 2.4x +R DL for the target). Copying the same DVD on my PC takes close to 15 minutes to rip and another 1hr to burn. Needless to say the only time I copy on my PC is for encrypted(not just MV'd which the CopyPal copies just fine) DVDs or when I want to reauthor or compress the original. A SL DVD copies in ~5 minutes with the CopyPal, about the same time it takes to rip on my PC, then add another 5 minutes or so to burn.
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post #15 of 15 Old 11-02-2011, 05:52 PM
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i have been using -R DL for this football season for Michigan games, I make a copy for myself and then i use my computer (cyberlink) to make a copy for a friend, i notice sometimes that while my copy seems to play just fine, (I always do a scan thru for macro-blocking or freezing) the copy i make from kine via computer occasionally will seize at the 2 hour mark, which is where the layer change takes place. Is this in any way to due the fact that I'm using this cyberlink software?
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