HDMI to Component or S-video/composite converters - Page 2 - AVS Forum
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post #31 of 72 Old 05-28-2011, 06:45 PM
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I've now tried my 3rd type of filter/converter, the MCM Digital Video Stabilizer for VHS tapes... nice metal box, runs dead cold, and now comes with 9V battery installed with 2000-hr life.

Edit: I just checked my power adapters for the HDMI and Component converters discussed previously, and they fit the jack on this unit, which can be used with an optional 9V adapter. Output power on the other adapters is 5V 1A. This unit's power usage spec is 1.8mW operating and 0.5mW in standby (it's activated by video sensing). Wonder if those 5V power adapters would work???

I used my Philips 3575 that had previously copied 9 of 14 of my comm. movies without a filter/stabilizer. I confirmed CP on one of those that didn't copy before by getting an E25 Error without the stabilizer, indicating MV protection, then confirmed stripping by copying twice from VCR to the Philips 3575... backup copies for my personal archive, of course. Viewed HDD copies in their natural 4:3 aspect on 32" Vizio 720p LCD. I also viewed in Wide aspect just to see the effect of stretching... not bad at all, just a little softer, as expected, but very watchable.

I recorded first in 3-hr-LP rec mode (by mistake), then again in 2-hr-SP rec mode. The LP copy is about as good as the VHS source, as confirmed by my very fussy wife/CEO.

She also confirmed that the 2-hr-SP copy was slightly better than the VHS original, esp. in the black screens or black objects. As I found with all my tape copying, the stabilizer didn't affect my 3575's ability to make solid, full-screen blacks more uniform and preserve the details in black objects like hair or clothing.

Of course, that ain't sayin' much when compared to a HDD recording from a digital HD channel by a DVDR user who forgot how "bad" the old days of tape were!

I have to assume that people who recently came from or are still in the VHS/analog realm would think both copies were "outstanding."

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post #32 of 72 Old 05-28-2011, 06:56 PM - Thread Starter
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That's the one that Citibear recommended on Videohelp but was shot down by you know who.......who said it "doesn't work" I'm sure it works just fine with VHS but probably not DVD which uses a different type of CP.
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post #33 of 72 Old 06-10-2011, 06:18 PM
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Tested my $25 MCM between my DVD player and Mag 2160 and it allowed me to copy 6 of 10 randomly selected comm. DVD movies. On all 10, I confirmed that they would not copy w/o the MCM.

The 6 that copied were released between 2000 and 2009.

Copy quality is excellent on 47" LCD!

* * * * * * *

Contrary to a report by another user, I also found that the 2160 will only allow buffer copy-to-HDD if the source has CP that a stabilizer can defeat... w/o a stabilizer, it won't record/copy either directly or thru the buffer.

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post #34 of 72 Old 06-10-2011, 08:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Logic Design View Post

Do you think that there would be a market for a device like the Lenkeng but that would provide much better analog video quality output? Anyone?

Certainly there is a "market", but how big and at what price and whether you'd be able to sell it without buyers jumping thru offshore hoops is another question. I would happily pay up to $199 for a higher-grade version of the $30 HDMI>Composite>S-Video converter jjeff and I grabbed during that brief Amazon blowout sale. That unit is great for $30, can't fault it at that price, even at $60 it's a nifty all-in-one that doesn't kill your wallet. Performance is "adequate" at best: tolerable on a good 32" screen for timeshifting and non-critical archiving of typical well-lit TV shows (you wouldn't want to record "Blade Runner" thru it). Again, for the money asked it doesn't suck as bad as you'd expect: with that baseline, it shouldn't be difficult to make it a LOT better at double or triple the price. But price boost then leads to...

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Originally Posted by greaser View Post

If you think that converter did on "outstanding job"then the HDFury will blow your eyes right out of their sockets!! G.

This is the attitude anyone trying to create an improved version of the "affordable" HDMI>Composite standard-def converter will run up against. Such hard-core types are way ahead of everyone else here and have long since blown hundreds of dollars stockpiling the HD Fury 2/3, various high-end component>S-Video converters, and all the wall warts and cables entailed in their use. I was crucified on the other converter thread for saying most consumers in the current culture would consider such a system ludicrous- I was called a borderline moron for even suggesting most of us would not want to connect three dangling converters at a total cost approaching that of a lifetime TiVO subscription.

But it isn't 1997 anymore: the mass market has completely abandoned home video recording aside from sealed box proprietary HD-PVR rentals. The geeks willing to put up with all this work-around-Hollywood crap just to keep using recorders were always a small percentage of the larger market, now we're such a tiny minority we're practically invisible. Given NetFlix' year-on-year growth of online discless delivery, consumers may even abandon players like they did recorders (sweet justice to idiot Sony there). Any new converter would have to appeal to the high-end geek at an exorbitant price (with full HD gaming passthru), or be affordable to the average (and aging) owner of an existing DVD/HDD recorders who just need an HDMI to decent SD 480i dongle. Factor in the incredibly annoying moving target of HDCP compliance and other unpredictable digital nasties, and the whole converter idea might just collapse altogether- what would be the point?

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Originally Posted by jjeff View Post

That's the one that Citibear recommended on Videohelp but was shot down by you know who.......who said it "doesn't work" I'm sure it works just fine with VHS but probably not DVD which uses a different type of CP.

"You know who" forgets how much I can try his patience with my replies if I disagree. He's a brilliant video technician, means well, and wants everyone to get the best results possible but his sky-high standards can be impractical or inapplicable at times. I was really surprised when he claimed the MCM filter "doesn't work" to allow VHS dubs to DVD, considering we've all been using similar filters forever. That one was a headscratcher.
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post #35 of 72 Old 06-13-2011, 05:20 PM
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If there are any of you Lenkeng/Lenkeng like converter owners out there who may be slightly less than ecstatic with the PQ produced by your converter,there is a way to noticably improve the PQ if you own some type of video filter.

Before i threw my Lenkeng converter into the dumpster,i happened to connect my Sima CT2 filter between the Lenkeng and one of my Maggies.The PQ was greatly improved.Whatever is lacking in the Lenkeng is pretty much made up for by the filter,maybe some "techie"type can explain why.All i know is that it works. G.

jjeff you have a Sima CT2 don't you? Give it a try and post your impression.
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post #36 of 72 Old 06-13-2011, 05:45 PM - Thread Starter
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Yes I could give it a try, but I find it hard to believe the Sima could actually make something look better. While my Simas don't really degrade the S-video resolution they do mess with the black level, making blacks more greyish than true black. My Lenkeng also raises the black level so I'd tend to think with the two in series my black level would really be raised, but I guess it's worth a try.
I don't have a Lenkeng component to S-video converter now(I didn't think for even $50 it was worth it to me) but I did keep the $30 Lenkeng HDMI to S-video converter. While it's PQ was similar to the component to S-video converter I figured for $30 I'd keep it for emergencies. I guess when I get time I could take it back out of it's box and use it in conjunction with my Sima CT-2. Maybe two wrongs will equal a right
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post #37 of 72 Old 06-13-2011, 05:55 PM
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The Sima brightened up the pic.to look more "normal".My non-techie guess is that it has something to do with the black level.The Lenkeng always made everything look like a dark cloudy gloomy day.The Sima "brightens"the pic. up,and the see and record will look like the Sima not the Lenkeng.I won't say the pic. is perfect,i won't compare it to higher end converters but it sure makes a gloomy day brighter!!IOW the Sima makes PQ that sucks...suck LESS. and i think it will probably work just as well on the HDMI>s-video converter as it did on the Comp.>s-video converter. G.
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post #38 of 72 Old 06-15-2011, 12:49 AM
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For the heck of it I connected my Blu-ray player to a Panny EZ17 using composite video, the player does not have S-Video out. I tried to record a Blu-ray disc onto a RAM disc. As soon as I hit the record button the recorder stopped & said cannot record copyright programs. I tried starting the recorder first, but as soon as the Blu-ray disc started playing the EZ17 stopped. This same program was available via Netflix streaming so I thought I’d try that. Got the same results & message.

I guess the lowly composite video on this “old” player cannot work for recording.
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post #39 of 72 Old 06-15-2011, 04:47 AM - Thread Starter
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Not for CP'd discs, or without a filter of some type.
Only the first generation or top of the line second generation BR players had S-video out and none of the current models do
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post #40 of 72 Old 06-15-2011, 10:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike99 View Post

I guess the lowly composite video on this old player cannot work for recording.

It has NOTHING whatsoever to do with the composite connection, but that the video stream in each case has content protection asserted, so the recorder cannot violate that and stops, or refuses to start. The error message, "cannot record copyright programs" is the clue that it's because of CP and not the connection type. There are many threads here on using filters like the Video Filter from Logic Design, the Grex, Sima, and others to accomplish what you are attempting. The recorders are compelled to honor CP if it is present in the video stream. Even my international model Panasonic recorders will not record a video stream if it contains CP.

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post #41 of 72 Old 07-13-2011, 06:22 PM
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You can add the Sony PlayStation 3 to the growing list of devices eliminating HD component outputs.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1347469

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post #42 of 72 Old 07-14-2011, 03:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike99 View Post

For the heck of it I connected my Blu-ray player to a Panny EZ17 using composite video, the player does not have S-Video out. I tried to record a Blu-ray disc onto a RAM disc. As soon as I hit the record button the recorder stopped & said cannot record copyright programs. I tried starting the recorder first, but as soon as the Blu-ray disc started playing the EZ17 stopped. This same program was available via Netflix streaming so I thought I'd try that. Got the same results & message.

I guess the lowly composite video on this old player cannot work for recording.

Speaking of COMPOSITE video (not component), does anybody know if the cheap, $1-5 composite to s-video cables/plugs work to strip copy protection??? I kinda doubt it, which is why you have to buy a filter of some sort and they cost at least $90 for the Grex.
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post #43 of 72 Old 07-14-2011, 07:43 PM - Thread Starter
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Any device converting between composite and S-video would need to be "active" not just a mechanical cable. Some specific devices output composite over their S-video connector and if you have such a device(select PC cards I believe) then a mechanical cable or plug would work but not otherwise. If your device has component outputs the cheapest filter would be something like this.
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post #44 of 72 Old 09-15-2012, 11:44 AM - Thread Starter
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http://www.amazon.com/SANOXY-HDMI-Composite-S-Video-Converter/dp/B0047PDBP0/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1347427456&sr=1-1&keywords=HDMI+Converter
Wow! been over a year since anyone has posted to this thread......anyway for anyone interested in a cheap(probably made by Lenkeng, similar to the Monoprice unit) the above link(for $37.19 shipped) seems to be a great deal.

Or an even lower priced converter if you can do without S-video. Don't know who makes this unit, haven't seen a similar Lenkeng.....
http://www.amazon.com/ViewHD-Universal-Composite-Converter-Standard/dp/B0080KN18K/ref=cm_cr_pr_sims_t
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post #45 of 72 Old 11-29-2012, 05:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjeff View Post

Or an even lower priced converter if you can do without S-video. Don't know who makes this unit, haven't seen a similar Lenkeng.....
http://www.amazon.com/ViewHD-Universal-Composite-Converter-Standard/dp/B0080KN18K/ref=cm_cr_pr_sims_t

Will the amazon "ViewHD Universal HDMI to Composite / AV Video Converter" linked above convert HDMI out from a PC computer's HDMI output to a Magnavox settop DVDR?
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post #46 of 72 Old 11-29-2012, 06:39 PM
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Yes, I use an HDMI>Composite/S-Video converter quite often to play web streams or downloaded video files into my DVD/HDD recorders. Usually I'm connecting a Samsung RV-511 laptop to this HDMI converter to a Pioneer 460 DVD/HDD. It works reasonably well, allowing me to make DVDs from downloaded files containing damage that prevents direct DVD authoring on a computer. Most of these HDMI converters are similar.
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post #47 of 72 Old 11-29-2012, 06:56 PM - Thread Starter
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Skylark, wow lots of good reviews on the converter since I first linked it, personally I wish it had S-video output which has the potential for better than composite video but with some devices like the Lenkeng(which has S-video output and composite) I don't really notice a quality difference(both aren't that great).
If you get this converter please post back your impressions, I'd especially be interested to see how it handled black or things like white titles on a black background. The Lenkengs I tried raised the black levels making blacks look more grey frown.gif
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post #48 of 72 Old 03-25-2013, 07:08 PM
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Bringing back an old thread
Currently I have a VGA to s-video converter for recording streamed games to my DVD recorder

Would I get a bump in picture quality if I used the hdmi outputs, and used a hdmi to s-video converter instead?
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post #49 of 72 Old 03-26-2013, 03:29 PM - Thread Starter
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I would guess not, not unless you wanted to spend more than $300 for a high quality one.
I haven't used a VGA to S-video converter but both the picture quality of HDMI to S-video converters I've used(sub $50 models) wasn't really anything to write home about. Better than nothing but not nearly as good as native S-video or even composite.
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post #50 of 72 Old 03-26-2013, 08:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjeff View Post

I would guess not, not unless you wanted to spend more than $300 for a high quality one.
I haven't used a VGA to S-video converter but both the picture quality of HDMI to S-video converters I've used(sub $50 models) wasn't really anything to write home about. Better than nothing but not nearly as good as native S-video or even composite.

I have an HDMI to composite/S-Video converter, and it works ...okay... but like you said, it's nothing to write home about. It *IS* functional. It isn't nearly as good as I know S-Video can be. frown.gif Maybe a much more expensive one? frown.giffrown.gif

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post #51 of 72 Old 03-28-2013, 10:45 AM
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Will it be much better than my VGA to s-video converter

None of my computers can output s-video/composite directly

Any benefit of getting a video card or some internal device that will output it directly?
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post #52 of 72 Old 06-09-2013, 08:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjeff View Post

I would guess not, not unless you wanted to spend more than $300 for a high quality one.
I haven't used a VGA to S-video converter but both the picture quality of HDMI to S-video converters I've used(sub $50 models) wasn't really anything to write home about. Better than nothing but not nearly as good as native S-video or even composite.

Would you say there is a difference between the quality of a Compenent --> composite (svideo) converter

and a HDMI --> Composite (svideo) converter

thanks
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post #53 of 72 Old 06-10-2013, 12:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billmich View Post

Will it be much better than my VGA to s-video converter

None of my computers can output s-video/composite directly

Any benefit of getting a video card or some internal device that will output it directly?

I had a laptop with a built-in composite output. It was no better than the VGA to video converter, which is to say, the picture quality was poor at best. I suspect that whatever is in the converter box was just added to the laptop. frown.gif

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post #54 of 72 Old 06-14-2013, 05:40 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billmich View Post

Would you say there is a difference between the quality of a Compenent --> composite (svideo) converter

and a HDMI --> Composite (svideo) converter

thanks
I thought both my Lenkeng converters were equally "OK", better than recording letterbox but not nearly as good as if you had access to a native non letterboxed SD output.
I'm not really using my converters since I have native SD outputs but they work nice for removing CP if thats an issue.
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post #55 of 72 Old 06-23-2013, 09:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CitiBear View Post

Yes, I use an HDMI>Composite/S-Video converter quite often to play web streams or downloaded video files into my DVD/HDD recorders. Usually I'm connecting a Samsung RV-511 laptop to this HDMI converter to a Pioneer 460 DVD/HDD. It works reasonably well, allowing me to make DVDs from downloaded files containing damage that prevents direct DVD authoring on a computer. Most of these HDMI converters are similar.

question about the above quoted converter.

does this mean that it can actualy run "in reverse"
the linked image had the video connections as the INput, not the OUTput

please let me know
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post #56 of 72 Old 06-27-2013, 06:23 AM
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Can anyone recommend an HDMI to s-video converter with HDMI pass-through?
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post #57 of 72 Old 06-27-2013, 09:06 AM
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billmich, sorry for the confusion.

Amazon, in its inscrutable wisdom, apparently changed the product SKU represented by the link I posted above. It should have led you to the generic, Monoprice-type HDMI>SV/Composite converter owned by jjeff, several other AVSers, and myself. It seems that specific unit is no longer distributed by either Amazon or Monoprice, so Amazon inanely re-assigned that link to a new reverse-direction SV/Composite>HDMI converter. That unit is indeed what you're looking for, although the reviews of its performance are not encouraging. Why specifically do you need a reverse s/composite>HDMI converter? What sources do you have that lack HDMI outputs? If you were hoping to upconvert from a VCR, these adapters won't make tapes look better (probably worse). Your best bet for VHS is to hunt down one of the few second-hand DVD/VHS combo decks that had VHS upconversion over HDMI enabled.

The thing people need to understand about these $40-$60 converters is that they simply aren't very good. On a CRT television or 27" LCD, they look decent, but once you hit 32" and larger LCD screens, performance suffers. These cheap converters are useful in a pinch, to analog-capture streaming video and other signals that resist direct PC capture, but you wouldn't want to use them in your default setup for everyday or prized recordings.

I did hunt around Amazon today to see if they ever restocked the Monoprice-type HDMI>SV/Composite converter, and discovered it is now available again under the Sabrent brand name. It is identical to the converter several of us purchased after tomwil & jjeff reviewed it a couple years ago. The Sabrent brand name has proven somewhat better at quality control than other generic Chinese electronics vendors, so I would think this unit would be at least as good as the Monoprice-sourced units. (The ones I bought look the same but have no branding whatever on them: totally generic).

I also noticed a steep price drop on another, larger converter that has been recommended "better than the Monoprice" several times by members on other AV forums. Amazon sells it here, but the 400 user reviews are not for this product (they're cross-posted from a totally different USB-powered converter.). Another converter said to be way better than the generics is available from StarTech website, I've considered trying it but it isn't cheap and I'm too lazy to deal with a possible return.
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post #58 of 72 Old 06-27-2013, 06:03 PM
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I am looking for the converters so that I can record out from the HDMI output of my laptop
And also keep any widescreen flag that may be on there

So I am specifically looking for an HDMI to s video converter
I would also like to have HDMI pass-through if possible
But I'm not looking for a $300 model

Are you understanding that I want to downconvert from HDMI not up convert to HDMI??

Thank you very much for all the links you provided in your previous post I have found them to be very helpful and I'm probably going to pick up one of them within the next couple of days
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post #59 of 72 Old 06-27-2013, 07:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billmich View Post

Are you understanding that I want to downconvert from HDMI not up convert to HDMI??

I wasn't sure before, because of your previous posts mentioning the glitched Amazon link that shows a S/Composite>HDMI converter instead of the HDMI>S/Composite converter originally listed. Your latest post cleared that up: Amazon changed the product the link points to.

My HDMI>S/Composite converters are mostly used for the task you mentioned: connecting the HDMI output of my laptops to external recorders or capture devices. Since you're not looking to spend a lot on a high-end solution, I'd suggest trying the Sabrent or ViewHD converters, both available on Amazon for approx. $50. The converter most of us posting here own is the Sabrent, the ViewHD was double the price and harder to find a couple years ago. (The Amazon user reviews for the ViewHD are actually for a different product altogether: Amazon is getting incredibly sloppy lately.) Note none of these affordable converters has an HDMI passthru: the sole output is downconverted analog S or composite. None of them can reverse direction to push analog input thru HDMI, that requires a different converter.

The converters auto-detect the input resolution, but work best from the highest res setting possible from the source. If using a cable/satellite box, you'll want to use the max resolution setting. My Windows7 laptops seem to coordinate themselves automatically with the converters: I don't see any resolution options in the display control panel. The converters tend to default to funky aspect ratios when displaying input from a PC: you may need to manually reset any software players or streaming windows to 16:9 or 4:3 to optimize the converter output..
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post #60 of 72 Old 06-27-2013, 11:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billmich View Post

I am looking for the converters so that I can record out from the HDMI output of my laptop
And also keep any widescreen flag that may be on there

So I am specifically looking for an HDMI to s video converter
I would also like to have HDMI pass-through if possible
But I'm not looking for a $300 model

Are you understanding that I want to downconvert from HDMI not up convert to HDMI??

Thank you very much for all the links you provided in your previous post I have found them to be very helpful and I'm probably going to pick up one of them within the next couple of days

I am curious. Why is maintaining the widescreen flag so important to you? It only matters under the condition that you record widescreen material to a DVD, and then play it back on an SD television. The DVD player sees the widescreen flag, and the setting of SD for the television, and then letterboxes the output to maintain the proper aspect ratio. It has no other function that I know about. Since I don't even have an SD set anymore, so it serves no purpose for me. Are you still playing your disks on an SD set? If so, I get it, but as time goes by, and fewer and fewer SD sets are being used, the widescreen flag is just becoming a nonfunctional anachronism.

Luke

Evil is charming and beautiful. It makes you doubt yourself. It asks for one small compromise after another until it whittles you down, and it functions best when no one believes in it.-JOA
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