Video Filter not working now with Sony RDR-HX715 - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 46 Old 07-30-2011, 09:08 AM - Thread Starter
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I've been using Logic Design's Video Filter stabilizer (3 months old) with 100% success with Sony RDR-HX715 HDD/DVD recorder from LG BD370 DVD/Netflix streaming player. I can record to HDD, Netflix streaming videos using the BD370 as component (YPbPr 480i) input, but not with composite input.

Now I picked up a Roku 2 XS streaming player because it has Netflix subtitles feature and can stream Amazon Instant Prime. The Video Filter does not allow the Sony RDR-HX715 to record from Netflix using composite from either the LG BD370 or Roku 2. The Roku 2 does not have component output. Amazon Instant Prime videos can record without any stabilizer apparently. Video Filter switches are set 1,2,3 up and 4 down.

Will another stabilizer like the Grex or Sima CT-200 work with composite? Or is my Video Filter defective?

PS. I case you are wondering why I like to record to the Sony recorder is that it has better scan features like the X1.5 FF with audio which allows me to watch a 1.5 hour video in 1 hour.
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post #2 of 46 Old 07-30-2011, 11:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hiker View Post

I've been using Logic Design's Video Filter stabilizer ... I can record to HDD, Netflix streaming videos using the BD370 as component (YPbPr 480i) input, but not with composite input. Is my Video Filter defective?

According to AVS member Logic Design's website, it should be able to stabilize composite.

It would probably be best to PM him, and ask. Please let us know of your results, as I have been considering purchasing the Video Filter also, but need composite to work because I use DVD recorders.

That which may be known of God is evident within man, for God has shown it to them, so that they are without excuse. (Romans 1:19-20)
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post #3 of 46 Old 07-30-2011, 01:17 PM
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The first thing would be to double check if your setup is correct (see http://home.roadrunner.com/~filter/C.../slide0001.htm). If your old setup can still record via component but the new setup cannot record via composite, it might not necessarily be the VF. One way to determine this would be to try both setups (BD370/Roku) with another DVD recorder (preferably a different manufacturer, but I don't know of many others with component inputs). If they both work, then something is quirky with your Sony and how it handles the composite signal. If the alternate recorder also has problems with the composite, then it might be safe to say the VF is not working correctly.

It may not be possible for you to test via this method, but it's really the only way to determine what the culprit is. You just have too many factors (player, player output connection, recorder input connection).

You can always PM Logic Design, or he may post here.

Has there been a new CGMS method developed that the VF cannot handle?
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post #4 of 46 Old 07-30-2011, 01:38 PM - Thread Starter
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I have contacted Logic Design. Waiting for reply after I tried a few more variations.

I tried a composite to component converter and can record. But the PQ is not very good so I don't like that solution. Everything I've tried with recording through component/Video Filter has worked. Since the same in/out RCA jacks on the Video Filter are used for composite and component I think the CGMS logic should be the same.

I do have another recorder, but it's also a Sony RDR-HX715. I'll see if I get the same results with it. At least that will make it doubtful that the one Sony has a defect with composite.

Update:
I tried my 2nd Sony RDR-HX715 and have same results.
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post #5 of 46 Old 08-01-2011, 12:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hiker View Post

I've been using Logic Design's Video Filter stabilizer (3 months old) with 100% success with Sony RDR-HX715 HDD/DVD recorder from LG BD370 DVD/Netflix streaming player. I can record to HDD, Netflix streaming videos using the BD370 as component (YPbPr 480i) input, but not with composite input.

Now I picked up a Roku 2 XS streaming player because it has Netflix subtitles feature and can stream Amazon Instant Prime. The Video Filter does not allow the Sony RDR-HX715 to record from Netflix using composite from either the LG BD370 or Roku 2. The Roku 2 does not have component output. Amazon Instant Prime videos can record without any stabilizer apparently. Video Filter switches are set 1,2,3 up and 4 down.

Will another stabilizer like the Grex or Sima CT-200 work with composite? Or is my Video Filter defective?

PS. I case you are wondering why I like to record to the Sony recorder is that it has better scan features like the X1.5 FF with audio which allows me to watch a 1.5 hour video in 1 hour.

I use my Video Filter with composite signals on a regular basis with no issues or problems. I am at work and certainly don't remember what the switch settings are, but whatyou are asking is something that it was designed to do. Logic Design willl likely answer your question. I'll try to remember to check what my switch settings are and post them tomorrow.

Luke

Evil is charming and beautiful. It makes you doubt yourself. It asks for one small compromise after another until it whittles you down, and it functions best when no one believes in it.-JOA
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post #6 of 46 Old 08-01-2011, 01:12 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm beginning to wonder whether it's happening because of some quirky aspect or over-sensitivity of the CGMS logic by the Sony DVDR. But why just failing on the composite and not component?

Church AV Guy, thanks and I'd like to know what your switch settings are but I think I've tried all combinations. Also what DVDR are you using?

Also I'd like to try another stabilizer like the Grex or GoDV! DP-X7000, but it doesn't look like any of the suppliers that I've found have an easy return policy.
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post #7 of 46 Old 08-01-2011, 05:13 PM
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I have a Roku hook up to a Sony recorder using composite video and record just fine of Nexflix. Also I own a Grex.
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post #8 of 46 Old 08-01-2011, 05:30 PM
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I would like to be able to reproduce this issue. Composite should definitely work specially if components does. The switch setting for components and composite should be the same. I am tempting to get a roku, just to test and figure out what is different about it. I have Netflix service. I think I'll order a roku 2 but it will be a week or so before I can get to it.
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post #9 of 46 Old 08-01-2011, 05:38 PM
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The Sony RDR-HX715 is a well-regarded classic model, made a couple years before Sony went insane with copy protection sensitivity. Since you have two and both are having the same problem, with either streaming source, I would tend to think it isn't the recorder. It seems more likely to be a glitch in the Video Filter (its a very high-grade box, quite possibly the best filter you can buy, but you can encounter a latent defect even with the best-quality electronics). There may be some weirdness in the NetFlix stream as processed thru your particular ISP, that the filter does not detect as a composite block but the recorder does detect. No way to know for sure unless you can borrow another DVD recorder and/or filter unit to run tests.
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post #10 of 46 Old 08-01-2011, 06:01 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks Max, great idea about getting a Roku 2. That's should help narrow it down.

Thanks marquitos306, if yours is working, gives me hope.

Thanks CitiBear, for your input.
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post #11 of 46 Old 08-01-2011, 10:47 PM
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If you're wireless, you could try turning off the security settings, or making some other thoroughput adjustments in the router.
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post #12 of 46 Old 08-02-2011, 04:31 AM
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That is a good idea...I am first going to try streaming Netflix using my Sony Blue-Ray player and recording it's output to the Panasonic unit I have. I can look at the video with the oscillosccope and see if there is anything there that I don't recognize.
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post #13 of 46 Old 08-02-2011, 05:43 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Logic Design View Post

That is a good idea...I am first going to try streaming Netflix using my Sony Blue-Ray player and recording it's output to the Panasonic unit I have. I can look at the video with the oscillosccope and see if there is anything there that I don't recognize.

I think any Netflix streaming would fail to record. At least it did for me. Both Roku and LG DVD player BD370 when streaming Netflix via composite would fail.
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post #14 of 46 Old 08-02-2011, 06:33 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Rammitinski View Post

If you're wireless, you could try turning off the security settings, or making some other thoroughput adjustments in the router.

I'm using wired Ethernet. Don't know why router settings could make a difference since it works with component and not composite, but I'll try most anything.
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post #15 of 46 Old 08-02-2011, 11:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hiker View Post

I'm beginning to wonder whether it's happening because of some quirky aspect or over-sensitivity of the CGMS logic by the Sony DVDR. But why just failing on the composite and not component?

Church AV Guy, thanks and I'd like to know what your switch settings are but I think I've tried all combinations. Also what DVDR are you using?

Also I'd like to try another stabilizer like the Grex or GoDV! DP-X7000, but it doesn't look like any of the suppliers that I've found have an easy return policy.

I am using various Panasonic DVD recorders. My Video Filter switch settings are the same as yours, UUUD. I have never used component as my DVD player recorder only has composite and S-Video inputs, and my DVD player only has component and composite outputs, so composite is the only common format I have. My Video Filter has never given me a problem, and has never failed to remove CP from any video stream. It has caused no noticeable change in picture quality.

Luke

Evil is charming and beautiful. It makes you doubt yourself. It asks for one small compromise after another until it whittles you down, and it functions best when no one believes in it.-JOA
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post #16 of 46 Old 08-02-2011, 01:17 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Church AV Guy View Post

I am using various Panasonic DVD recorders. My Video Filter switch settings are the same as yours, UUUD. I have never used component as my DVD player recorder only has composite and S-Video inputs, and my DVD player only has component and composite outputs, so composite is the only common format I have. My Video Filter has never given me a problem, and has never failed to remove CP from any video stream. It has caused no noticeable change in picture quality.

Do you use composite or S-Video? I haven't tried S-Video since none of my input sources have it.

Does the VF ever need to be rebooted? If it uses digital logic, maybe it might need occasionally. I've power cycled it to double check my tests.
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post #17 of 46 Old 08-02-2011, 01:27 PM - Thread Starter
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Max, I'm beginning to think my VF is defective or is just incompatible with the Sony DVDR.

The direct DVD recordings I normally make don't require the VF since I use an Apex AD-1500 player with hacked firmware. So to see how the VF performed with DVD recording I ran a test. Using the LG BD370 player and Finding Nemo DVD, I connected composite output through VF and into Sony DVDR input#1 and record set to HDD. It would not record, got the dreaded message "The picture cannot be recorded".

Update:
Tried yet another test. Dug through stuff and found an unmodified Apex AD-1500 player which has S-Video output and CGMS enabled. Tried recording Nemo disc without VF and got the dreaded message. Added VF (switches: 1 down, 2,3,4 up) and also got the dreaded message. Just wanted to make sure I'm getting same results with composite and S-Video, and confirmed.

Also I recorded OK, the Finding Nemo DVD from LG BD370 through component and VF into Sony DVDR.

To sum up... at this point everything I've tried works with component but not composite or S-Video.
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post #18 of 46 Old 08-02-2011, 03:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hiker View Post

Also I'd like to try another stabilizer like the Grex or GoDV! DP-X7000, but it doesn't look like any of the suppliers that I've found have an easy return policy.

The Grex does have a 30-day return policy, but it's to Israel . So far I have the Grex, Sima, Video Filter, and a unit from Svideo.com, and the picture quality is the best on the Video Filter (VF), but it comes at a cost, as it's far and away the most expensive of the bunch. The others come close in sharpness, but the color saturation is the best on the VF. It's also the most sophisticated design.

Svideo.com offers a composite/s-video filter only, but I suspect it will also work with component (if you use the same hookup as the VF). You can improve the PQ if you are going composite out, by going into the filter with composite, and exiting with s-video to the recorder. At $119, price isn't too bad, and it's built like a brick, e.g, waterproof.

If you guys think you've got it bad in the U.S., Japan just went all digital, and ALL local broadcasting, e.g, OTA, is now copy protected coming out of the wall! You can record, but you cannot copy to anything. Which is why I had to get so many filters.
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post #19 of 46 Old 08-03-2011, 10:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hiker View Post

Do you use composite or S-Video? I haven't tried S-Video since none of my input sources have it.

Does the VF ever need to be rebooted? If it uses digital logic, maybe it might need occasionally. I've power cycled it to double check my tests.

As I said, I have used composite exclusively, BUT, I have tested it with S-Video, and it worked properly. I have never tested it with component because the only DVD recorder I have with component inputs, also strips CP from the signal. I don't know if it was intentional or not, but it works.

I once had my Video Filter on for about a week straight, and it worked perfectly the whole time, no power resetting necessary.

Luke

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post #20 of 46 Old 08-03-2011, 03:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Church AV Guy View Post

I once had my Video Filter on for about a week straight, and it worked perfectly the whole time, no power resetting necessary.

My Video Filter has been going strong for three years now, and it's on 24 hours a day .

I will see how long a Grex lasts .
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post #21 of 46 Old 08-03-2011, 03:35 PM
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The Video Filter is designed to be on all the time....No need to reset at all.
There are so many different content providers out there and what they are doing about CP, that makes it somewhat difficult to understand all the issues. I have had Brighthouse Networks (previously Time Warner) for many years and a Panasonic DVD recorder with no problems at all about CP. I'll look at the streaming video from Netflix and report back.
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post #22 of 46 Old 08-03-2011, 03:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clevor View Post

My Video Filter has been going strong for three years now, and it's on 24 hours a day .

I will see how long a Grex lasts .

Three years. Yow! Unlike my Video Filter, my Sima gets pretty warm if I leave it on for hours. I got a small fan to cool it if I need to use it for an extended time. I prefer the Viedo Filter though, for the improved video quality, which is more noticeable since I got a 55" television and for the heat generation of the Sima. I have no idea how long a Grex will last, so let us know if it quits.

Luke

Evil is charming and beautiful. It makes you doubt yourself. It asks for one small compromise after another until it whittles you down, and it functions best when no one believes in it.-JOA
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post #23 of 46 Old 08-03-2011, 04:10 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Logic Design View Post

The Video Filter is designed to be on all the time....No need to reset at all.
There are so many different content providers out there and what they are doing about CP, that makes it somewhat difficult to understand all the issues. I have had Brighthouse Networks (previously Time Warner) for many years and a Panasonic DVD recorder with no problems at all about CP. I'll look at the streaming video from Netflix and report back.

Max, see my previous posts about tests I've done with DVDs. It's not only Netflix giving me the problem but commercial DVDs with CP. Both composite and S-Video fail to record but component works with any CP source I've tried. Is my VF defective?
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post #24 of 46 Old 08-04-2011, 04:48 AM
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I doubt that your filter is defective because it's been very reliable but, there is always a possibility. How long have you had it? Do the components sources work with the filter but not without it?
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post #25 of 46 Old 08-04-2011, 05:54 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Logic Design View Post

I doubt that your filter is defective because it's been very reliable but, there is always a possibility. How long have you had it? Do the components sources work with the filter but not without it?

Ordered the VF on 05/07/2011 and received a few days after that, so I've had it only 3 months.

Yes, sources (DVD, Netflix streaming) all work with VF on component and not with VF on composite or S-Video. When I remove the VF and try component, recording fails.

I have 2 DVDRs and both fail but they are the exact same Sony model. I tried to buy another DVDR but WM was out of stock on the Magnavox 515.

At this point I don't know what else to try except a VF replacement.
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post #26 of 46 Old 08-04-2011, 06:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hiker View Post

Ordered the VF on 05/07/2011 and received a few days after that, so I've had it only 3 months.

Yes, sources (DVD, Netflix streaming) all work with VF on component and not with VF on composite or S-Video. When I remove the VF and try component, recording fails.

I have 2 DVDRs and both fail but they are the exact same Sony model. I tried to buy another DVDR but WM was out of stock on the Magnavox 515.

At this point I don't know what else to try except a VF replacement.

Wal Mart was out of stock online with the Magnavox 515 yesterday AM, but instock in the PM, got one ordered. You might want to check again.
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post #27 of 46 Old 08-04-2011, 06:38 AM - Thread Starter
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Wal Mart was out of stock online with the Magnavox 515 yesterday AM, but instock in the PM, got one ordered. You might want to check again.

Thanks, just ordered
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post #28 of 46 Old 08-05-2011, 05:50 PM
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Could it be at all possible that the CGMS info is being passed on the Pb/Pr components rather than the Y on those sources? Sounds strange, but maybe try rotating those into your setups. Stranger things have happened.
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post #29 of 46 Old 08-05-2011, 06:06 PM
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I am not sure I understand. Only on "Y" components the CGMS informations is passed.
On S-Video, it's also on "Y" luminance that CGMS is contained so, there is no odvious reason why it works on components and not S-Video or Composite. I'll conduct an experiment tonight streaming Netflix with my Sony BD player and record to the Panasonid DVD recorder I have. I suspect Composite and S-Video will work. I'll make sure the firmware is the same as hiker's.
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post #30 of 46 Old 08-06-2011, 06:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hiker View Post

Thanks, just ordered

New users of the 515: you have to set the line inputs to the type of cable using the Video > Video Input menu. Default is Composite ("Video in"). Switch to "S-Video in" if you try S-Video.

Click #1 in my sig. for a list of help files.
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