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Old 10-04-2011, 03:49 PM - Thread Starter
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greets all -

is there a dvd recorder out there that will record in hi def and will work with over the air channels that i can use instead of buying ativo box and paying them 20.00 a month per chance?...it doesnt have to be hi def..it can be standard def...im just hoping thier is a better alternative than tivo out there....20.00 a month adds up quickly...appreciate any feedback..thanks
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Old 10-04-2011, 04:07 PM
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For HD, there,s a Channel Master CM7000PAL.

For SD, there's a Magnavox MDR515.

Both available thru Walmart, where you have a 90-day return window.

PHILIPS HD DVRs | MAG/PHILIPS SD DVDRs* | DVDR/DVR COMPARISONS | POST-DVDR OPTIONS
*Due to the AVS SW change in June 2014, most but not all links in this thread will work if you're not logged in. If you are logged in, links should work if your User CP > Edit Options > Number of Posts to Show per Page is set to 30, the default.
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Old 10-04-2011, 04:23 PM - Thread Starter
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thanks for the links
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Old 10-04-2011, 04:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by volkrt View Post

im just hoping thier is a better alternative than tivo out there....

If better = cheaper, then the two alternatives given are better choices.

But be aware that the Channel Master had some growing pains in it's earlier DTV Pal iteration, and isn't quite as robust as the TiVo. And the Magnavox lacks a useful guide, although if you're used to programming a VCR to record, you'll find the Maggy is similar. Yes, the $20 a month for TiVo is rather high, but it does give some flexibility over the others.

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Old 10-04-2011, 04:55 PM - Thread Starter
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ive had tivo for years along with direct tv...but frankly im sick and tired of paying for the monthly fees for tv i dont watch that much..and money is tight for me ..especially these days.....and I have no issues using a vcr...before tivo thats all i used.......
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Old 10-04-2011, 05:45 PM
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I'd get the Magnavox, then. It has a good track record. It's also probably a little cheaper.

Don't believe everything on the Interwebz! A duck's quack DOES echo!
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Old 10-04-2011, 06:36 PM - Thread Starter
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have your ever used one Tulpa?...is the mag interface like the old vcrs where u just tape it and fast forward to whatever program u wanted to watch...or does it allow you to pick a certain program u taped thru the dvd interface?
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Old 10-05-2011, 08:30 AM
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The Magnivox 515 records to a hard drive just like ativo. Instead of a list of recordings there are icons (like a computer) that represent the shows that you record along with the date and time. If the info is available will provide the name of the show, or you can name it whatever you want to.

It does not have a two week guide that list upcoming shows like ativo.

It has a timed recording menu like a vcr that allows you to chose shows weekly or daily the same way the vcr did with the added benifit of being able to name the recording however you like.
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Old 10-05-2011, 08:44 AM
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This help file shows the Title screen and describes how it works.

This help file shows the Timer Rec menu and how to pre-title recorded shows.

PHILIPS HD DVRs | MAG/PHILIPS SD DVDRs* | DVDR/DVR COMPARISONS | POST-DVDR OPTIONS
*Due to the AVS SW change in June 2014, most but not all links in this thread will work if you're not logged in. If you are logged in, links should work if your User CP > Edit Options > Number of Posts to Show per Page is set to 30, the default.
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Old 10-05-2011, 09:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by volkrt View Post

is there a dvd recorder out there that will record in hi def and will work with over the air channels that i can use instead of buying ativo box and paying them 20.00 a month per chance?...it doesnt have to be hi def..it can be standard def...im just hoping thier is a better alternative than tivo out there....20.00 a month adds up quickly...

There are cheaper alternatives, but nothing beats the reliability of a TiVo DVR and it's advanced name-based guide-scheduling capabilities for recording OTA HD. If you are only using it for OTA, the $99 TiVo + monthly subscription model is only $10/month. You can always pay the $600 upfront cost to buy a TiVo with no further fees (a.k.a. lifetime service). That is worth it if you plan on keeping the box >4yr or reselling it -- a used TiVo without lifetime is worthless other than as a parts machine.

The CM7000 DVR is a bug-ridden device without any support. It misses recordings, has a spotty guide and can't keep accurate time (uses digital TVGOS) so those shows it does record can be missing beginning or ending segments -- or in some cases the whole program. The CM7000 DVR is at the end of life-cycle and soon to be junked with the pending release of the next-gen CM7400 DVR. The CM7400 DVR will cost more ($400); may not actually do more (only fools believe the promises of pre-release specs.); and requires a $100/yr subscription fee if you want any kind of a guide other than the meager 6-12 hr PSIP data the TV stations are supposed to send out -- no option for lifetime service. Only absolute TiVo-haters will buy this vs. a TiVo.

If you want to go cheap but functional, get the Magnavox 515 for $225. Compared to a DVR, you give up HD recording (some users with large high-quality tack-sharp displays have commented to me that the PQ can be a little soft), it has only a single tuner, it has no guide functionality and is programmed like a VCR with manual date-time-channel entry. But apparently for OTA recording it is quite reliable and OTA use has none of the myriad channel-numbering & shifting problems encountered by people trying to use it for cable.

From what you have written, take a close look at the Magnavox.

- kelson h

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Old 10-05-2011, 11:38 AM - Thread Starter
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[quote= If you are only using it for OTA, the $99 TiVo + monthly subscription model is only $10/month. [/QUOTE]

thanks for the info....I do want to use it for over the wave only but every time I have called them they say its 20.00 a month to do so...can you please tell me what I need to do to get the 10.00 a month fee? ..to me 20.00 seems very steep for just over the wave tv..and dont want to shell out 600 for a lifetime machine either..thanks
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Old 10-05-2011, 12:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelson View Post

The CM7000 DVR is a bug-ridden device without any support. It misses recordings, has a spotty guide and can't keep accurate time (uses digital TVGOS) so those shows it does record can be missing beginning or ending segments -- or in some cases the whole program. The CM7000 DVR is at the end of life-cycle and soon to be junked with the pending release of the next-gen CM7400 DVR. The CM7400 DVR will cost more ($400); may not actually do more (only fools believe the promises of pre-release specs.); and requires a $100/yr subscription fee if you want any kind of a guide other than the meager 6-12 hr PSIP data the TV stations are supposed to send out -- no option for lifetime service. Only absolute TiVo-haters will buy this vs. a TiVo.

For $400 I hope that the CM7400 will have HDMI inputs, or at least that they try to fix the bugs.
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Old 10-05-2011, 01:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by volkrt View Post

...can you please tell me what I need to do to get the 10.00 a month fee? ..

Some of the electronics sellers are offering it. I know that Solid Signal.com is one (only 'till 11/15).

The Tivo is $99.99, and you have to enter the keyword "ANTENNA" when activating the unit.
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Old 10-05-2011, 01:56 PM
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Originally Posted by profhat View Post

For $400 I hope that the CM7400 will have HDMI inputs, or at least that they try to fix the bugs.

It's a DVR, not a DVDR. The only input it has is for an Rf cable for the antenna or cable co -- it has a clear QAM tuner in addition to the ATSC tuner, no analog.

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Old 10-05-2011, 02:45 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rammitinski View Post

Some of the electronics sellers are offering it. I know that Solid Signal.com is one (only 'till 11/15).

The Tivo is $99.99, and you have to enter the keyword "ANTENNA" when activating the unit.


thanks Ram...i'll give them a call today and see what they say
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Old 10-07-2011, 04:57 PM
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As far as OTA, I use a Toshiba DVDR 560 with its ATSC tuner and get great PQ from my roof antenna. I set the timer recording when I need that or just record a channel while watching another channel. In fact I also have the Toshiba VCR/DVDR 670 also and have taped using its ATSC tuner. I don't think they are very expensive right now. I usually just Google the name and check out the various stores. I will keep using these for all OTA stations and only have to do something else when my cable goes digital and then it did seem the Tivo could be a good choice especially if I can rent a Cable card for it for $1.99 a month instead of being forced to rent multiple set top boxes to be able to watch one and record other channels at the same time.

But for OTA, I am very happy with my 2 Toshibas. Just a thought for you.
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Old 10-07-2011, 06:20 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by microladyusa View Post

As far as OTA, I use a Toshiba DVDR 560 with its ATSC tuner and get great PQ from my roof antenna. I set the timer recording when I need that or just record a channel while watching another channel. In fact I also have the Toshiba VCR/DVDR 670 also and have taped using its ATSC tuner. I don't think they are very expensive right now. I usually just Google the name and check out the various stores. I will keep using these for all OTA stations and only have to do something else when my cable goes digital and then it did seem the Tivo could be a good choice especially if I can rent a Cable card for it for $1.99 a month instead of being forced to rent multiple set top boxes to be able to watch one and record other channels at the same time.

But for OTA, I am very happy with my 2 Toshibas. Just a thought for you.

thanks for the input...i think i may wind up going the tivo route if i can get it for 10.00 a month....will see how it goes
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Old 10-08-2011, 11:33 AM
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Good Luck with whatever you do. We really do need to keep finding ways to continue our recordings when we want them...no matter what we have to do, especially ways that truly fit in meager budgets nowadays.
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Old 10-18-2011, 07:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelson View Post

There are cheaper alternatives, but nothing beats the reliability of a TiVo DVR and it's advanced name-based guide-scheduling capabilities for recording OTA HD. If you are only using it for OTA, the $99 TiVo + monthly subscription model is only $10/month. You can always pay the $600 upfront cost to buy a TiVo with no further fees (a.k.a. lifetime service). That is worth it if you plan on keeping the box >4yr or reselling it -- a used TiVo without lifetime is worthless other than as a parts machine.

The CM7000 DVR is a bug-ridden device without any support. It misses recordings, has a spotty guide and can't keep accurate time (uses digital TVGOS) so those shows it does record can be missing beginning or ending segments -- or in some cases the whole program. The CM7000 DVR is at the end of life-cycle and soon to be junked with the pending release of the next-gen CM7400 DVR. The CM7400 DVR will cost more ($400); may not actually do more (only fools believe the promises of pre-release specs.); and requires a $100/yr subscription fee if you want any kind of a guide other than the meager 6-12 hr PSIP data the TV stations are supposed to send out -- no option for lifetime service. Only absolute TiVo-haters will buy this vs. a TiVo.

If you want to go cheap but functional, get the Magnavox 515 for $225. Compared to a DVR, you give up HD recording (some users with large high-quality tack-sharp displays have commented to me that the PQ can be a little soft), it has only a single tuner, it has no guide functionality and is programmed like a VCR with manual date-time-channel entry. But apparently for OTA recording it is quite reliable and OTA use has none of the myriad channel-numbering & shifting problems encountered by people trying to use it for cable.

From what you have written, take a close look at the Magnavox.

You bring out an interesting point that I have not read about the upcoming Channel Master 7400 DVR. From your comments, I understand there is a $100/yr subscription for a channel guide, other than the 6-12 hour PSIP data sent out by the TV stations. So the CM7400 DVR is $400 for the box, plus this annual fee for the advanced channel guide, unless a person is willing to go with the PSIP 6-12 hour data only, in which case it's a total of $400 only for the life of the box.

If I am not mistaken, the lifetime fee of TiVo is $500 at present (to avoid the monthly fees from TiVo). If I am not using a cable box, am I correct to assume this option will allow *both* OTA and cable recordings? I would think the answer is yes since I believe the Tivo has two RF inputs.

(Obviously, in this scenario, I understand I would only get high def recordings when using the OTA option *or* through one of the select few local cable channels that are rebroadcast in HD without a cable box on my HDTV).
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Old 10-18-2011, 08:44 PM
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Originally Posted by evan237 View Post

So the CM7400 DVR is $400 for the box, plus this annual fee for the advanced channel guide, unless a person is willing to go with the PSIP 6-12 hour data only, in which case it's a total of $400 only for the life of the box.

That's correct. $400 for the box and no more if all you want is PSIP. What you get with PSIP depends on what the stations feel like sending out. Also, sending out an accurate clock signal seems to be beyond the capabilities of most stations so if the stand-alone CM7400 sets it's clock with PSIP without a manual option, the box could be as useless as the CM7000 is in areas without a good clock signal.
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Originally Posted by evan237 View Post

If I am not mistaken, the lifetime fee of TiVo is $500 at present (to avoid the monthly fees from TiVo).

The TiVo lifetime fee is $500, but the box buy-in is only $99 so the total cost is $600, one-time. With full guide subscription, the CM-7400 box costs $400+$100=$500 out of pocket for the first year and $100 12 months later. So you cover the cost of a TiVo in only 1 yr and then keep paying forever after that -- for a markedly inferior product.
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Originally Posted by evan237 View Post

If I am not using a cable box, am I correct to assume this option will allow *both* OTA and cable recordings? I would think the answer is yes since I believe the Tivo has two RF inputs.

You don't need a cable box with TiVo, you need a cable card. That will allow the TiVo to tune in all the cable channels you are paying for -- clear and encrypted. You will see all your cable channels in the guide. TiVo has two Rf inputs for cable and OTA so you can connect both simultaneously. The box is smart enough to integrate the channel line-up and guide information of both into a single display. It is transparent to the user where the signal being recorded is coming from -- you get what you pay for with a TiVo.

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Old 10-18-2011, 08:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelson View Post

That's correct. $400 for the box and no more if all you want is PSIP. What you get with PSIP depends on what the stations feel like sending out. Also, sending out an accurate clock signal seems to be beyond the capabilities of most stations so if the stand-alone CM7400 sets it's clock with PSIP without a manual option, the box could be as useless as the CM7000 is in areas without a good clock signal.

The TiVo lifetime fee is $500, but the box buy-in is only $99 so the total cost is $600, one-time. With full guide subscription, the CM-7400 box costs $400+$100=$500 out of pocket for the first year and $100 12 months later. So you cover the cost of a TiVo in only 1 yr and then keep paying forever after that -- for a markedly inferior product.
You don't need a cable box with TiVo, you need a cable card. That will allow the TiVo to tune in all the cable channels you are paying for -- clear and encrypted. You will see all your cable channels in the guide. TiVo has two Rf inputs for cable and OTA so you can connect both simultaneously. The box is smart enough to integrate the channel line-up and guide information of both into a single display. It is transparent to the user where the signal being recorded is coming from -- you get what you pay for with a TiVo.

Kelson, I appreciate all the good information you've shared. I've got another question. I realize the TiVo doesn't require a cable set top box. In fact, it replaces it if a person has a cable set top box.

But what if I want to buy a TiVo for my bedroom HDTV that doesn't have a cable set top box? In this scenario, can I simply unhook the coax from my HDTV, hook it up to TiVo, and then run an HDMI cord back to my HDTV? In other words, can I utilize the TiVo product on my bedroom HDTV without getting into a cable card?
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Old 10-18-2011, 11:26 PM
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[I have earlier posts in this thread TAB'ed in my browser (to get back to and reply), but, since I've been replying to threads in this forum for the past few hours, I thought I'd just 'jump in' here...]

When it comes to:
  • HDTV Recording
  • Media Streamers
  • NAS
  • PC-Related DVD Creation
I've come to depend on the posts of Kelson, on the various AVS Forums, for my 'Reference'.
________________________________________

Quote:
Originally Posted by evan237 View Post

Kelson, I appreciate all the good information you've shared. I've got another question. I realize...

While I personally COMPLETELY trust Kelson's opinions / decisions / statements, it's *ONLY* because I've read SO MANY threads where he has contributed. [Thanks! ]

[IIRC, I bought my Seagate FAT+ because of Kelson's posts; I've been looking to purchase a D-Link NAS "On Sale" because of Kelson's posts; Although I have a Lifetime TiVo Series 1 14-Hour (upgraded to Dual-80GBs / 200 Hour) and *WISH* I could buy a Lifetime TiVo HD, because of Kelson's posts, sadly I have to decline $$$. ]

Before continuing to *ASK* him more questions, have you considered SEARCHing the AVS Forum for:
  • Keyword(s): *WHATEVER*
  • User Name: Kelson
On *MULTIPLE* Forums, when, after *MANY* hours of reading posts, I discover a UserID that I feel I trust, I spend *HOURS* SEARCHing the Forum Archives for their posts on topics that I'm interested in. I mean, "How the heck can *I* be the *FIRST* person to ask this question (on the *ENTIRE* Internet)?!?" On the other hand, however, *MAYBE* 'Someone' has already asked this question and [Insert UserID Here] has already answered it!?!

*MAYBE* YOU can give it a go?!?

Low Post Count <> Low Knowledge ergo High Post Count <> High Knowledge

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Old 10-19-2011, 09:25 AM
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Originally Posted by evan237 View Post

In other words, can I utilize the TiVo product on my bedroom HDTV without getting into a cable card?

Not in a satisfying way. Without a cable card the TiVo loses most of it's functionality and can only tune clear QAM. Assuming you have paid for the subscription, the guide displayed will have channels mapped to the cable card numbers which will be different from the clear QAM numbers -- you will have to find them. It will be impossible to set recordings from the guide or use any of the advanced scheduling features of the TiVo. A cable card is only $2-3/month. It really doesn't make sense to buy a TiVo for cable use and not get a cable card. It would probably be less hassle to use a Magnavox DVDR.

Although I don't mind answering your questions, let me also refer you to this in-depth post on the TiVo Premier that leads off the TiVo Premier thread in the HDTV Recorders forum. If you have any interest in TiVo this is the goto post.

- kelson h

The bitterness of poor quality lasts long after the sweetness of the low price is forgotten . . . life is too short to drink bad wine

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Old 10-19-2011, 09:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ClearToLand View Post

When it comes to:
  • HDTV Recording
  • Media Streamers
  • NAS
  • PC-Related DVD Creation
I've come to depend on the posts of Kelson, on the various AVS Forums, for my 'Reference'.

Aw shucks.

BTW -- Sorry about the FAT+. It really was a great little media player at the time we bought them, but unfortunately Seagate dropped the ball completely while WD started draining 3-pointers and passed them in the dust. Would have been nice to have had a X-tal ball. I went to the WD Live+ a while back and after the frequent FW updates ironed out the bugs, it makes the FAT+ look feeble. I'm about to go for the new WD Live-S.

I have two of those DNS-321 NAS units loaded with 2TB drives and love them. They may not be the fastest in throughput (~120Mbps) but they play real nice with both the FAT+ and Live+ to stream DVD and BD. I have sworn to myself to keep my on-line media storage capped at 8TB -- but I'm weakening.

- kelson h

The bitterness of poor quality lasts long after the sweetness of the low price is forgotten . . . life is too short to drink bad wine

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Old 10-19-2011, 05:00 PM
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Originally posted by ClearToLand
Quote:
Originally Posted by Before continuing to *ASK* him more questions, have you considered SEARCHing the AVS Forum for:[list View Post

[*]Keyword(s): *WHATEVER*[*]User Name: Kelson[/list]On *MULTIPLE* Forums, when, after *MANY* hours of reading posts, I discover a UserID that I feel I trust, I spend *HOURS* SEARCHing the Forum Archives for their posts on topics that I'm interested in. I mean, "How the heck can *I* be the *FIRST* person to ask this question (on the *ENTIRE* Internet)?!?" On the other hand, however, *MAYBE* 'Someone' has already asked this question and [Insert UserID Here] has already answered it!?!

*MAYBE* YOU can give it a go?!?

It is *never* my intent to abuse the forum gurus. Notice I also thanked him for his information. And when I thank someone, I really do mean it! Also, please keep in mind, the forum member is free not to respond.

But your comments are well taken in regards to doing a thorough search to include a person's username before asking follow-up questions While I had 'gave it a go' doing searches, it was getting late last night, and I did not do a search by username.
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Old 10-20-2011, 09:01 AM
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As a note of reference:

While this is not the Tivo section, not that there is one, but just in case any one needs this for future reference.

Tivo gets it's guide from either a Telephone Line. One call nightly to keep the guide up-to-date. Or if you have a Cable internet service that is always connected, with a router, you can hook it up to get info through an internet connection.

While this avoids all the hassle of the current DVDR recorders finding the data through local stations, it introduces it's own set of characteristics like the phone line usage and local calls or if one has limited internet access. Just for everyone's FYI.
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Old 10-20-2011, 10:26 AM
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Tivo gets it's guide from either a Telephone Line. One call nightly to keep the guide up-to-date. Or if you have a Cable internet service that is always connected, with a router, you can hook it up to get info through an internet connection.

With the TiVo Premier, the phone jack connection was eliminated. The Tribune guide information is downloaded exclusively via Internet. Makes sense when you consider all the Internet services you can connect to with a TiVo -- i.e. Netflix, etc.

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Old 10-20-2011, 02:54 PM
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With the TiVo Premier, the phone jack connection was eliminated. The Tribune guide information is downloaded exclusively via Internet. Makes sense when you consider all the Internet services you can connect to with a TiVo -- i.e. Netflix, etc.

Guess no Premier for me I still use a landline(something many people seem to be eliminating) and basically all new computers are also omitting the RJ11 phone jack guess I'm living in the stone age Dial-up works fine for me but I'm sure the giant telecoms are PO'd I only spend $100/year for my internet Yes that's $100 for my entire internet/TV bill(free OTA with enough channels for me). I know people that spend >$100/month Oh and free cell phone courtesy of work
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Old 10-20-2011, 05:01 PM
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Guess no Premier for me I still use a landline

That's amazing that you can get away with using just your phone line and a modem for your Internet. I'm surprised that phone access still exits. More power to you.

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Old 10-20-2011, 05:29 PM
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It would be interesting to see how many people still use the phone option for Tivo, I'd have to think the numbers are dropping by the day. AFA dial-up internet, I personally know of no one else using this method(I'm sure their are still a handful left) but nothing like in the days of AOL when they ruled the roost. Even our friends in the boonies of Canada have HS internet, satellite is their only choice and they have it.
AVS runs ok on dialup but not things like larger Windows updates. I update my Laptop when WiFi is available but my desktop is quite out of date for larger updates
Contrary to popular belief Tivo doesn't just update during the night. They run on ~ a 30 hour update schedule(I think they do this to lessen the number of dial-ups) which means it can be anytime during the day. Surprisingly we've only run into conflicts a handful of time(picking up the phone when Tivo is downloading something) and Tivo won't try when the phone is off the hook. The downloads generally only take 1-2 minutes(although someone with tons of cable channels may take longer).
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