Recorder Market Is Unsettled Everywhere, Not Just USA/Canada Anymore - Page 7 - AVS Forum
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post #181 of 289 Old 02-15-2012, 06:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Dartman View Post

I think the other things you can leave at default. It also has a train and display/set levels box so you can try different settings till it works best for you.

Thanks for posting your settings. I tried using Ad Detective with the default settings a few times but it never seemed to work right for me. I figured if I have to keep tweaking the settings and correcting it each time, it wouldn't be worth the effort. I normally just scroll through the shows by rolling the mouse wheel and manually cut out the commercials as I go. Doing it that way is nearly as fast as correcting the Ad Detective cuts.

I tried your settings but it still didn't find the commercials correctly. It cut out the first few minutes of the show and left the first commercial break in. It only cut the first two commercials out of the second break.

How does "Train Using Current Set" work? Does it learn from your manual edits?
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post #182 of 289 Old 02-15-2012, 06:46 AM
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Originally Posted by ClearToLand View Post

I feel rather confident that I speak for *MANY* other 'LURKers / DREAMers' when I ask you *NOT* to take any details of your 'Experiment' *PRIVATE*!?!

Sorry, there was no intent to hide anything. I just thought the VRD settings details were just something too specific and probably not of general interest. I didn't want anyone complaining that this was just an exchange between Dartman and myself and we should take the whole thing private. My mistake, people are always reading what others write and learning from it. We are guilty of hijacking bear's thread and turning it into a discussion of alternate recording experiences from several of us who have actually been on that road, transitioning from DVDR's, for a while (sorry bear, but from our PM's I get the message you are totally OK with this).

When it comes to the topic at hand of "archival burning of TV programs to optical media in the post DVDR era" you can split the workstream as follows:
  1. Recording the program to HDD
  2. Editing to remove commercials, etc.
  3. Re-coding to compress or convert HD to SD (optional)
  4. Authoring to DVD-Video or AVCHD for DVD-R -or- BDMV for BD-R
  5. Burning to media
For a long time DVD recorders executed that workflow in a single box that was relatively straight forward to operate. Unfortunately they didn't keep up with the technology of the times after the DTV transition -- no HD recording, no cable card support. So even though people have the opportunity to stockpile DVDR's to keep going long past their demise, there will be some fraction of people that don't want to stockpile SD technology and want to advance into HD recording and cable-card support. In the post DVDR era, [1] may or may not involve a PC, but [2]-[5] are all PC-centric. And if you want to burn disks, you definitely have to do [2]-[5]. So far we have been primarily discussing [1]-[3]. At some point I'll summarize all this into one digestible post that we can discuss from there and get into [4] & [5].

- kelson h

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post #183 of 289 Old 02-15-2012, 08:42 AM - Thread Starter
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Excellent summary post, Kelson!

While this thread has, for the moment, drifted into a conversation between just a few people regarding a couple PC-centric recording solutions, I don't hear any complaints. The information being exchanged is good solid stuff that many "lurkers" are probably bookmarking for future reference (I *have* heard that in PMs from a few of 'em).

My initial post beginning this thread was simply a "heads up" to let us long-time DVD/HDD recorder fans know that Europe and Asia had finally begun following North America into consumer apathy toward the product category, and could no longer be counted on to subsidize mfr'g costs or the possibility of more advanced models ever appearing here again. Even the much-anticipated BluRay/HDD upgrade has fizzled out, having morphed into a cheaper but less-versatile disc player/HDD timeshift design now gaining popularity overseas. That may well arrive here, but recorders with ability to transfer HDD content to any sort of disc are apparently history on a global scale now.

So the recent discussions here detailing PC workflow and accessories/software to emulate (or surpass) DVD/HDD or BD/HDD functionality are relevant to my initial topic, and welcome in this thread. I hope this thread can remain "current" for another few weeks, or at least long enough to collect a good cross-section of recorder replacement ideas employed by members who've already made the transition. If nothing else, it will provide a set of "guidepost" member names for those about to begin surfing the various HDTV recording and HTPC subforums.
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post #184 of 289 Old 02-15-2012, 10:34 AM
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I'm here, keep up the good work. I'd be contributing but my first attempt to test out VRD on my computer here at work failed miserably, and my free time at home is so scarce that I haven't had a chance to do much else.

The only thing I'd suggest is that while this thread has taken a life of its own, slightly skewed from the thread title, the sticky thread about recording options has remained relatively stagnant...so maybe it would be beneficial to move or at least summarize the discussion into the sticky thread.
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post #185 of 289 Old 02-15-2012, 10:51 AM
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This discussion has been enlightening to me--and I'm not transitioning or even planning to transition to a media-PC based system. It's actually reinforced for me that I probably made the right decision to stockpile a few spare DVDRs, so I *don't* have to face this issue......until my life situation changes somehow so I'd have the time to sit down and learn the HTPC technology. Not that I can't--I'm just not ready to invest the heavy initial intellectual startup cost!

I can stick with the DVDR route for a while longer because (a) I get really good DTV reception where I live and (b) my largest TV is only 32" so the problem of spreading an SD image over a lot of flatscreen real estate isn't a problem.

Still good to be learning abou the "other side"
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post #186 of 289 Old 02-15-2012, 11:08 AM
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I still feel that the TV/Video/transmission/technology/copy protection/regulation/etc. is still in major flux and while there are no real options besides a PC solution at this point, there might be a more convenient standalone solution that emerges shortly down the road. Or, toward the other extreme, regulation and industry constraints would push to a point where fair use recording of HD content would be all but impossible, leaving us back to the SD-only option we currently have with DVDRs. I will investigate the current technological hardware and software landscape, with a keen eye on the ever-changing future. This may preclude me from making any firm commitment on a particular solution, unless I find something that I feel will become long-tem and viable.
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post #187 of 289 Old 02-15-2012, 11:32 AM
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Originally Posted by doswonk1 View Post

This discussion has been enlightening to me . . . It's actually reinforced for me that I probably made the right decision to stockpile a few spare DVDRs, so I *don't* have to face this issue

That in itself is a valuable finding.

- kelson h

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post #188 of 289 Old 02-15-2012, 01:42 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by dare2be View Post

I still feel that the TV/Video/transmission/technology/copy protection/regulation/etc. is still in major flux and while there are no real options besides a PC solution at this point, there might be a more convenient standalone solution that emerges shortly down the road.

That has already happened in Europe and will likely migrate here, as I described in my first post and again earlier today: a single-box BluRay/DVD player with built-in HDD PVR with full HDTV recording from off-air tuner only. No editing or dubbing to disc, because global mass market is no longer interested and because "powers that be" want to discourage removable-disc HDTV recording anyway. No HiDef recording from cable or satellite in North America, for the same reasons it doesn't work with present DVD/HDD recorders: too many private cable companies undercutting standards, and satellite being private commercial vendors. (In Europe the new Disc Player/HDD recorder boxes CAN record in HiDef from satellite because satellite providers are either gov't-run or required to meet a single tuner standard that generic recorder mfrs can supply without worries of proprietary lockouts. There is no cable.)

The standalone disc/hdd recorder, as we have known and loved it, is now history as a consumer product: not just in North America, but everywhere. DVD/HDD recorders are almost extinct in the European/Australian/NZ markets and are totally gone from Japan. The followup BluRay/HDD recorders bombed, leaving Europe with only a handful of increasingly-feature-stripped Panasonic models. A few deluxe BluRay/HDD recorders survive in Japan, but most have been discontinued, including all made by Funai. A couple BD/HDD models may continue almost indefinitely in Japan itself, because a significant number of Japanese are still keen on burning discs. But these models won't be exported in future: Europe and North/South America mass market has moved to temporary timeshifting and no disc burning.

The hard-core video collectors have switched to archiving recorded files on PC and media player HDDs, made more attractive now that a "small" HDD is in the terabyte range. Mobile viewing has shifted to phones and iPads instead of portable DVD players. The people who don't want to give up discs are either still using their old recorders, or learning to do it with PCs. Feature-rich, private EPG driven, networkable subscription recorders with no built-in disc burning continue as TiVO in North America and Humax elsewhere. It remains to be seen if TiVO jumps in with a combo BuRay player/TiVo unit, but I doubt it: previous attempts at DVD/TiVo were unsuccessful.
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post #189 of 289 Old 02-15-2012, 01:45 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by dare2be View Post

The only thing I'd suggest is that while this thread has taken a life of its own, slightly skewed from the thread title, the sticky thread about recording options has remained relatively stagnant...so maybe it would be beneficial to move or at least summarize the discussion into the sticky thread.

That "new" sticky thread has remained stagnant because it was unnecessary, redundant, and its very existence unwelcome to a great many members who are none too happy at the prospect of the stifling, unevenly censorious, disorganized chaos of its progenitor dragging into the indefinite future under the guise of a "new, more relevant" sticky title, distracting newcomers from forum topics that would be more immediately helpful to them. The earlier sticky had long since degenerated into a repetitive mess hostile to "outsiders," while still trying to suck every newbie and every remotely-related video recording topic into itself. The respect and pride it once engendered in most AVS recorder forum participants has been lost irretrievably, because of poor direction and management choices of late, and they are leery of its unpleasant effects continuing on as a zombie, undead, "new" sticky. No one has been fooled, everyone here knows exactly what that "new" sticky really represents: some are willing to go along with the charade, many others are not. Time will tell.

I know from other posts that you disagree with this view, and you have a perfect right to. This does not change the fact that the "new" sticky is five years too late to be relevant to its own title, and is a contradiction of its own terms. In a previous post, you took umbrage at my saying "DVDRs have been gone since 2007, this new sticky would have been applicable then but is pointless and unnecessary now." You pointed to the continued existence of DVD/VHS recorders on Best Buy shelves as a counterargument, but that was disingenuous of you. You know perfectly well the original sticky that birthed this "new" one was dedicated to a single specific incarnation of the DVD/HDD recorder concept: no one there was interested in DVD-only or DVD/VHS combos. You also conveniently forget, the only reason that sticky existed and thrived was because every other DVD/HDD recorder had been pulled from the USA market at the time it was created five years ago.

The "new" sticky title is misleading. I said before elsewhere, and will say again here: "DVDR" is AVS shorthand for "DVD/HDD" recorder (not DVD-only recorder, not DVD/VHS recorder). "DVDR" recorders have been "gone" since Panasonic, Pioneer, Sony, and Toshiba abandoned the USA market in late 2006. They've been "gone" from Canada since Sony dropped the last lingering RDR-HX780 in late 2008. So, to title a "new" sticky thread in 2012 as "Options To Record When DVDRs Are Gone" was grossly inaccurate and borderline insulting. "DVDRs", in the overall sense, have been gone for several years. The correct, honest title for the new sticky should have been "Options To Record When The Magnavox 515 Is Gone." The fact that it was not titled honestly speaks volumes, and has had a definite deterrent effect on some members who might have otherwise posted to it.

That "new" sticky has no purpose other than to continue the unpleasant tactics of the soon-to-slowly-fade Magnavox sticky thread. All of the people who were concerned about DVDRs being "gone" have either already migrated to thread topics devoted to PC or TiVo alternatives, or already long-since bought a Magnavox as backup to their older recorders. The only thing that has changed regarding DVDRs in the past five years is the recent apparent discontinuation of the Magnavox: one single DVDR out of what was once a field of dozens. The people who are long-time members of this recorder subforum still own and use their old recorders, replacing them on eBay or Craigs List and/or supplementing them with Magnavoxes. But the Magnavox, as good as it is within its limitations, was a pale substitute for the classic DVDRs: the once-thriving AVS recorder community has already coped with the "DVDRs Are Gone!" question for the past five years, and has written countless threads and posts about their experiences.

The "new" sticky is irrelevant to them: it is strictly a continuation of the solipsistic Magnavox thread. Instead of being broken out as a new sticky, the old one should have been retitled to include the new topic of a "post-Magnavox" world for those who were interested. The current, active Magnavox user group is very unlike the larger group that had been using other DVDRs for many years prior. This larger group took the Magnavox in stride as the last remaining DVD/HDD recorder, and simply added it to their arsenal if they felt they needed it (I bought two myself). Another, smallish group of newer members bought a Magnavox and uses it with the same reasoning as the older members: specifically as an archiving tool. But the vast majority of current, active Magnavox enthusiasts were attracted mostly when the $169 refurb party started, and when the new retail price dropped to $239.

These newer, active Magnavox posters are price-sensitive: they would not in a million years have paid the going rate of $469 for a Toshiba or Panasonic in 2006 (which is why all those brands withdrew). They want the convenience of a standalone, single-box solution. A huge number are basic boxless cable subscribers looking for a poor mans PVR with no subscription fees, with built-in DVD as a nice bonus. It is not a criticism to acknowledge these people exist and form the core of the Magnavox user base: if it weren't for them, and Target trying to pull a fast one on WalMart, the Magnavox might well have been dropped two years ago instead of today. However, this larger group of Magnavox users will not be interested in any of the current possible "Options For Recording When DVDRs (i.e., We All Know He Means The Magnavox 515) Are Gone." The "options" are all double to triple the retail price of the Magnavox, don't burn discs directly, and/or require some PC skills because they're PC upgrades- not recorders in the traditional sense. Discussion of expensive or PC-centric alternatives would confuse or annoy most Magnavox enthusiasts, and their displeasure would dilute and distress the contributions of members who had become familiar with pricier or PC devices. Which is why a "new" sticky that doesn't accurately state its topic as "Alternatives To The Magnavox" is regarded as bogus grandstanding by more than a few AVS members, and ignored.

You may not understand this, dare2be, but the wailing and gnashing of teeth when the beloved Panasonic EH55 DVD/HDD was pulled from the USA market in early 2007 far, FAR eclipsed the grief of Magnavox enthusiasts today. This entire AVS recorder forum was given over to discussing alternatives, HTPC options, repair advice, links to the TiVo community, and solidarity with Pioneer, Sony and Toshiba enthusiasts who were similarly afflicted. The Magnavox discontinuation, while historic as the last of its kind, pales in comparison. We did not see anyone rush to put up a narrow, confining sticky ten minutes after the withdrawal of the Panasonic was announced. We did not see a sticky for Pioneer, Toshiba, Sony, Polaroid or RCA either. What we DID see was a productive, ongoing set of complementary threads that rose and fell in prominence appropriate to interest and the passage of time. Some of those threads, such as the Toshiba XS repair topics, still surface regularly on our front page as new info emerges.

But no stickies. We have at least a dozen incredibly knowledgeable members on this recorder subforum, specialists in certain popular models and brands, who could easily create and maintain sticky threads for those units. In fact, other members have petitioned them repeatedly to do so. These experts have deliberately chosen not to, because they feel a sticky inevitably isolates the exchange of ideas among the larger membership unless it is very narrowly specific to a very general-purpose but confusing topic (like the perennial "DVD Recorders Cannot Record In Full HDTV" advisory we've had for many years).

This widely-held view is why that "new" sticky is sparsely attended, and why I make no attempt to police people here in this thread: they are free to discuss whatever they like so long as it relates in some small way to my original topic re disc/hdd/editing standalones fading into the sunset on a global scale. Under no circumstances would I want this thread or its posts absorbed into that new "sticky:" it will wax and wane of its own accord, like every other intelligent non-sticky thread on this forum. When this thread drops down into obscurity, it will mean others of more interest have replaced it. That's how it should work. The Magnavox sticky thread was presumably created to serve the Magnavox community, re-titling it to include suitable alternatives would serve that community much more effectively than the creation of the new, suspect followup sticky.

You are on the right track but the wrong thread, dare2be: if any thread should be subsumed by another, it is wajo's "new" sticky which should be pulled back into his existing Magnavox sticky where it belongs and would prove immensely more useful. The "new" sticky is not in truth a "new" or general purpose thread: to pretend otherwise is a disservice to both the Magnavox user community and the larger recorder subforum.
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post #190 of 289 Old 02-15-2012, 01:53 PM
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Originally Posted by CitiBear View Post

That "new" sticky thread has remained stagnant because it was unnecessary, redundant, and its very existence unwelcome to a great many members who are none too happy at the prospect of the stifling, unevenly censorious, disorganized chaos of its progenitor dragging into the indefinite future under the guise of a "new, more relevant" sticky title, distracting newcomers from forum topics that would be more immediately helpful to them. The earlier sticky had long since degenerated into a repetitive mess hostile to "outsiders," while still trying to suck every newbie and every remotely-related video recording topic into itself. The respect and pride it once engendered in most AVS recorder forum participants has been lost irretrievably, because of poor direction and management choices of late, and they are leery of its unpleasant effects continuing on as a zombie, undead, "new" sticky. No one has been fooled, everyone here knows exactly what that "new" sticky really represents: some are willing to go along with the charade, many others are not. Time will tell.

...

You are on the right track but the wrong thread, dare2be: if any thread should be subsumed by another, it is wajo's "new" sticky which should be pulled back into his existing Magnavox sticky where it belongs and would prove immensely more useful. The "new" sticky is not in truth a "new" or general purpose thread: to pretend otherwise is a disservice to both the Magnavox user community and the larger recorder subforum.

*breathe!*

This premise of your post is that it shouldn't be a sticky thread, and is too late in the game. I don't care if it's a sticky thread, but the point was that the productive and informative discussion currently going on in this thread (up until my suggestion) is more closely aligned with the TITLE of the thread that is currently stickied.

No agenda here, other than clarity and organization of material presented.

/whew
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post #191 of 289 Old 02-15-2012, 02:01 PM
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Originally Posted by CitiBear View Post

That has already happened in Europe and will likely migrate here, as I described in my first post and again earlier today: a single-box BluRay/DVD player with built-in HDD PVR with full HDTV recording from off-air tuner only. No editing or dubbing to disc, because global mass market is no longer interested and because "powers that be" want to discourage removable-disc HDTV recording anyway. No HiDef recording from cable or satellite in North America, for the same reasons it doesn't work with present DVD/HDD recorders: too many private cable companies undercutting standards, and satellite being private commercial vendors. (In Europe the new Disc Player/HDD recorder boxes CAN record in HiDef from satellite because satellite providers are either gov't-run or required to meet a single tuner standard that generic recorder mfrs can supply without worries of proprietary lockouts. There is no cable.)

The standalone disc/hdd recorder, as we have known and loved it, is now history as a consumer product: not just in North America, but everywhere. DVD/HDD recorders are almost extinct in the European/Australian/NZ markets and are totally gone from Japan. The followup BluRay/HDD recorders bombed, leaving Europe with only a handful of increasingly-feature-stripped Panasonic models. A few deluxe BluRay/HDD recorders survive in Japan, but most have been discontinued, including all made by Funai. A couple BD/HDD models may continue almost indefinitely in Japan itself, because a significant number of Japanese are still keen on burning discs. But these models won't be exported in future: Europe and North/South America mass market has moved to temporary timeshifting and no disc burning.

Nowhere in my "standalone solution" did I mention DVD or BRD burning. Again, reading an agenda into my words when it isn't there. Standalone, meaning like some current offerings from Avermedia that are starting to emerge. The flux IMO is too great to keep up with the technology, and makes it time prohibitive for me to implement and adapt without a more convenient solution.
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post #192 of 289 Old 02-15-2012, 02:54 PM
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To Whom it May Concern:

Quote:


Don't quote a post if you are the next person replying on the topic to the post immediately preceding. I.e. don't quote the post directly over yours. It is completely pointless and causes unnecessary clutter and reduces readability/information assimilation speed.

Don't quote an entire post. When quoting a post from another member, don't quote the entire post, especially a long one, unless it is absolutely necessary to make your point. Please edit out whatever is not needed.

Quote only if you reply to a specific point mentioned in a post which is not the last post in a topic. And in that case, limit your quote to the exact point you are commenting on.

On the whole, quoting is overused in fora, so limiting your quoting will most likely get you further away from inappropriate usage.

Thank you!

Reference:
Quoting a post in a forumto quote or not to quote? Quoting guidelines for novice and seasoned users alike IMHO, it is also inconsiderate / disrespectful to the forum owner regarding HDD storage costs.

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post #193 of 289 Old 02-15-2012, 02:59 PM
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^^^I also like to use the little up arrows when responding to the post immediately above mine, like you said less clutter than quoting
The one advantage to always quoting is if someone else sneaks in between your post and the one you were referencing but this doesn't happen too much, at least in less used threads.
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post #194 of 289 Old 02-15-2012, 03:01 PM
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My apologies, I understand the etiquette about quoting an entire post. I did it on purpose for effect. Bad choice on my part.

It is also good etiquette to be succinct in getting your point across.

On the point of quoting the post directly above your own, that is a slippery slope especially when a post could end up sneaking in before you hit the post button, and don't notice it...thus potentially causing confusion. ( EDIT: Which I just noticed happened here as jjeff jumped in front of me, and also happened to jjeff below )
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post #195 of 289 Old 02-15-2012, 03:05 PM
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There *IS* an EDIT Button...

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post #196 of 289 Old 02-15-2012, 03:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CitiBear View Post

DVDR" recorders have been "gone" since Panasonic, Pioneer, Sony, and Toshiba abandoned the USA market in late 2006. They've been "gone" from Canada since Sony dropped the last lingering RDR-HX780 in late 2008.

Probably was just new in box old stock" but I spotted a big pile of LG RH398H-M DVDR w/ 250 GB HDD for $199 at Future Shop as late as December 29th 2010.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...1&postcount=23

em-t-wallitt spotted them as late as April 27th 2011.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...4&postcount=25

I wonder when the last unit actually left the production line?
LL
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post #197 of 289 Old 02-15-2012, 03:07 PM
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Like some of Citibears posts it did get rather long
I also want to commend you on not over reacting to CTL's suggestions...
Many times I've seen him suggesting options to people only to get blasted for it, I don't believe he's trying to be mean or nit picky but lots of times people take it as that
My guess is he was either a cop or security guard in a past life
Edit
Oops, see I should have quoted......CTL and Super Eye snuck in between my post and the one I was responding too
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post #198 of 289 Old 02-15-2012, 03:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjeff View Post

^^^I also like to use the little up arrows when responding to the post immediately above mine, like you said less clutter than quoting
The one advantage to always quoting is if someone else sneaks in between your post and the one you were referencing but this doesn't happen too much, at least in less used threads.

Very recently I responded to a couple "above posts" without quoting but the other party deleted his posts and it looked like I was debating myself, responding to my own posts. Now I try to make it a rule to always quote at least one sentence that I'm responding to.
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post #199 of 289 Old 02-15-2012, 03:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Super Eye View Post

Very recently I responded to a couple "above posts" without quoting but the other party deleted his posts and it looked like I was debating myself, responding to my own posts. Now I try to make it a rule to always quote at least one sentence that I’m responding to.

+1

(oops, bad "me too" etiquette)

EDIT: To make this post more useful, I just want to say that I took my dialog with Citibear to PMs out of respect to the community here.
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post #200 of 289 Old 02-15-2012, 04:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelson View Post

I would appreciate the settings you have settled in on for commercial skip. You could just PM them to me, if you would rather.

Open Forum
Too much private stuff going on here.
Settings should be shared here.


Quote:
Originally Posted by dare2be View Post

To make this post more useful, I just want to say that I took my dialog with Citibear to PMs out of respect to the community here.

Open Forum
Too much private stuff going on here.
Differing views and opinions should be welcomed here.
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post #201 of 289 Old 02-15-2012, 04:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Super Eye View Post

Open Forum
Too much private stuff going on here.
Differing views and opinions should be welcomed here.

Be careful what you wish for. Most of it is off-topic to the thread anyway.
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post #202 of 289 Old 02-15-2012, 05:05 PM
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I shared em and many folks seemed happy for the info even though for some it still misses commercials. I have to say it sometimes does for me too but most of the time it hits the breaks fine now so I let it do it's thing then double check later. You can also set the skip buttons for any time you'd like in advanced settings and a lot of other useful things depending on what your trying to do.
When I did all manual edits I figured there is a commercial every 7 minutes so I'd use the advance 2 minutes button till I hit around 7 minutes worth then find the actual break. Sometimes they would have a longer interval between breaks, sometimes shorter but 7 is the usual amount of show. I use that idea with my 3575 and my E80H, even the Polaroid I had for a while too so if I had skip buttons I use them to save time when scanning through editing. You can pick a scene too and have it display the numbers then try them till you hit the sweet spot for your particular setup where it mostly gets it right. It's based on the blank/black screen portions when a commercial break happens so it can be fooled when they do those IMMEDIATE breaks where there is no dead space at all. They do that on purpose to try and fool the skip functions some folks use so you have to watch the adds and supposedly make them money.
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post #203 of 289 Old 02-15-2012, 06:44 PM
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I think the fact is that manual editing in VRD is not painful at all because it is set up to do it. It was designed to edit TV shows (i.e. VRD TV Suite) which means commercials and front/back clipping. It has multiple buttons for skipping that you can configure for the interval you want and you can designate the interval for thumbnail display from single frame to 60 sec. It has a title bar that spans the length of the show and clearly shows the sections you are cutting in red. I have my buttons set to a 2 min, 30 sec, 5 sec, 1 sec; my thumbnail interval is 0.5 sec. I can do a 2 min skip through a title to quickly find a commercial then use the lower rates to skip back and find the start. I'm finding that there is always enough black frames before and after that I don't need to go to single frame display to find a black frame to cut on. Using 1/2 sec frames really speeds things up. It takes me about 5 min to cut out the commercials in a typical 1 hr show.

- kelson h

The bitterness of poor quality lasts long after the sweetness of the low price is forgotten . . . life is too short to drink bad wine

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post #204 of 289 Old 02-15-2012, 07:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Kelson View Post

I think the fact is that manual editing in VRD is not painful at all because it is set up to do it. It was designed to edit TV shows (i.e. VRD TV Suite) which means commercials and front/back clipping.
It takes me about 5 min to cut out the commercials in a typical 1 hr show.

I concur. In the limited use I got out of VRD TVS before it started crashing on me, the commercial scan feature worked pretty well, it usually got 80% of the cuts and markers right, and it didn't take long to clean up the inconsistencies. Once all the markers were in place and the cuts were performed, it only took seconds to do the final cutting. I hope to find time this weekend to try it on my WinXP system at home.
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post #205 of 289 Old 02-15-2012, 07:14 PM
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Speaking of editing and a little OT -- when you record and edit using PC/TiVo you get information like video bitrate popping out at you. Has anyone else noticed in their area of the country that ABC has gone to hell. Here in the Philly market, in late December they made one of their worthless sub-channels into HD which split the bandwidth. Prior to this ABC was broadcasting the main channel at 720p with bitrate =12-13Mbps (FOX does 720p at 15Mbps). Now the ABC bitrate is down to 8Mbps or less. That barely qualifies as HD.

To bad they can't all be like CBS -- in Philly they broadcast a single HD channel at 19Mbps. Looks spectacular.

- kelson h

The bitterness of poor quality lasts long after the sweetness of the low price is forgotten . . . life is too short to drink bad wine

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post #206 of 289 Old 02-15-2012, 07:20 PM
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Originally Posted by dare2be View Post

I hope to find time this weekend to try it on my WinXP system at home.

I'm still running it on my 9+ yr old XP media-PC with 1GB RAM. I just manually cut the commercials from the latest episode of The River in about 5 min. When I went to save it to an .mpg file it only took about 7 min to recode the cuts and copy the frames to the new file. You should have no problems on an XP class PC. Ad Detect, however, seems to run in real time on that box so I prefer to do it manually. Eventually I'll see how fast it runs on my i7.

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post #207 of 289 Old 02-15-2012, 07:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelson View Post

Has anyone else noticed in their area of the country that ABC has gone to hell. Here in the Philly market, in late December they made one of their worthless sub-channels into HD which split the bandwidth. Prior to this ABC was broadcasting the main channel at 720p with bitrate =12-13Mbps (FOX does 720p at 15Mbps). Now the ABC bitrate is down to 8Mbps or less. That barely qualifies as HD.

I can check WPVI with TSReader if you want me to. Both of my tuners are busy right now but I can post it in the morning. Are you on cable or OTA?

I made a discovery with VRD. I've been having problems navigating video pulled from my DVD recorders in the VRD edit window. The time jumps forward erratically even if I use the skip backward button. I usually import the DVDs with VRD as mkv. Today I saved one as .ts and I had no trouble editing the video.
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post #208 of 289 Old 02-15-2012, 08:39 PM
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Originally Posted by ken.f View Post

are you on cable or ota?

ota.
Modern Family, Castle, Revenge, Desperate HW, The River -- all ~8Mbps

My wife has been collecting the season of Desperate HW so I can see the bitrate of all of them. All the 2011 episodes up to the 12/4/2011 episode were 11Mbps. All the 2012 episodes from 1/8/2012 on are 7.5Mbps.

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post #209 of 289 Old 02-16-2012, 01:25 AM
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Guys?

Baby steps here, please.

What's the first step I'd have to take to have a PC-based recorder that'd even allow A/V cable feeding of a cable box into the machine? (Allowing for a "filter" in between the box and PC/recorder.)

What speed processor should I aim for, what make of computer, laptop or tower, hard drive size, amount of memory, and so on?

Also, any particular add-on I'd need to tune OTA or cable with cable-card (in addition to the A/V inputs), any software you'd recommend (the aim will be to burn to optical disc in many cases, tho editing commercials wouldn't always be done)...

Any suggestions/recommendations you can make, but remember...baby steps. I've never done anything like this before.
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post #210 of 289 Old 02-16-2012, 06:50 AM
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What's the first step I'd have to take to have a PC-based recorder that'd even allow A/V cable feeding of a cable box into the machine? (Allowing for a "filter" in between the box and PC/recorder.)

What speed processor should I aim for, what make of computer, laptop or tower, hard drive size, amount of memory, and so on?

Lots of disparate questions. Let's take one topic at a time and narrow down. Keep in mind that if you go this route you are going native HD/5.1. That means possibly a BD burner but definitely a BluRay player to play the disks.

From your quote above, you want to continue using a cable STB or DVR for your primary viewing/recording and just have a DVD recorder substitute you can attach to transfer HD/5.1 recordings in realtime.

One popular device is the Hauppauge HD PVR 1212. I believe I provided a link above but just google it. It is a small box with component analog inputs and digital audio optical input AND pass-through output. It connects to your PC via USB and comes with all the software you will need to record. The box does all the work. It takes the component and digital audio output and hardware encodes to H.264 and sends the stream to your PC where it is assembled into a standard container format. You don't need a powerful PC to do this and the PC doesn't have to be resident. You could just plug in your laptop whenever you wanted to record. If your cable company copy-protects the channels you want to record you can always put a copy-buster box between the cable box and the HD PVR just like you would do with a DVDR -- just make sure the copy-buster box has component inputs. Yes the HD PVR has S-video and composite inputs if you want them.

So before we go further, is this what you have in mind.

Edit: Forgot to mention the HD PVR has an IR blaster to control your cable STB for unattended scheduled recording. Here's a link to the device.

- kelson h

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