Options for Recording After DVDR's Are Gone - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 156 Old 02-28-2012, 09:44 AM
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I just bought the 513 from Walmart a few weeks ago. I think mine was $200 + tax and such. Interesting the price went up. I hooked it up the other day and everything seems to be in order.

Not entirely relevant, but I have a Philips 3575, which is the predecessor to alot of these DVR's. I've had it since 2006 or 2007 with no issue.
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post #92 of 156 Old 02-28-2012, 12:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulpa View Post

It's a long story, but basically those cable DVRs you and the rest of us here despise were embraced by most of America. They have limitations, but most of those limitations are seen by us who use and appreciate DVD recorders, and aren't even on the radar for your average Joe who just wants to set the recording, watch it, and delete it.

Yeah, average Joe could have used a TVGOS DVD recorder, but he didn't. DVD recorders, while not that complicated, were incrementally more complex than VCRs (which were the only way to record when it was king.) DVRs were seen as "good enough" and DVD recorders were "HOW DO I WORK THIS BLASTED THING!?"

I find that a bit surprising because if I could figure it out then I'd think lots of folks could! Once I realized the difference in types of recordable dvds and that yes, dvd rw means you can re-record over it just like a tape, then it was all good.

I found this forum two years ago just before I bought the Magnavox dvd recorder because I wanted to make sure I would be able to actually hook it up. Lots of helpful info which triggered my 'light bulb' moment and all was well. Since then the selection of recorders has dwindled (and I thought the selection was small two years ago). I blame the whole digital conversion thing on the downfall (?) of the dvd recorder . . . or at least it sure didn't help. While digital and hd and all is quite nice, it took away the main reason people used vcrs/dvd recorders . . .you can no longer watch one show while recording another (yes there is a work around but most people would never be bothered to do this) nor can you set your recorder to record several different shows if they're on different channels because you need to be there to change the channel! No wonder people just said 'meh' and went the dvr route.



That might work. If you get video from it to a TV, a DVD recorder will also see it.



Two years is pretty much the norm for most electronics in this miserable age of planned obsolescence, with a couple of (expensive) exceptions. But most of the refurbed 513s and such aren't actually refurbs, they're just returns from people who couldn't figure them out. Lots of reports of new or near new units from J&R, who couldn't sell them as new since they were opened.



Yes, probably as Blu-ray players, but those have always played DVDs. Discs aren't going anywhere anytime soon, just the ability to record.

Well this is good to know! At least the dvds that we've purchased over the years will still be watchable in a family type setting.

.
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post #93 of 156 Old 02-28-2012, 12:57 PM
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Originally Posted by NickTheGreat View Post

I just bought the 513 from Walmart a few weeks ago. I think mine was $200 + tax and such. Interesting the price went up. I hooked it up the other day and everything seems to be in order.

Not entirely relevant, but I have a Philips 3575, which is the predecessor to alot of these DVR's. I've had it since 2006 or 2007 with no issue.

I wish I had done that when it was at $209, I had no idea it would jump in price so much. If I thought it would last for quite some time I'd consider buying one but . . . this stuff breaks so fast. Planned obsolescence is right.

My Toshiba I bought new around 2007 or so as well and so far, no problems. Fingers crossed.
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post #94 of 156 Old 02-28-2012, 01:01 PM
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Originally Posted by jomc View Post

I find that a bit surprising because if I could figure it out then I'd think lots of folks could! Once I realized the difference in types of recordable dvds and that yes, dvd rw means you can re-record over it just like a tape, then it was all good.

You had the advantage in that you actually thought it through. Most people... don't. And the cablecos had a pretty good PR push for their DVRs, and even installed them in the home.

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post #95 of 156 Old 02-29-2012, 02:54 AM
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I was wondering, wouldnt DVD's and DVD recorders at least be kept for Asian/middle east markets for 10 or 20 more years or so? Considering some of those countries have barely moved beyond VCD yet. I was thinking surely you could import one from somewhere and there would always be something pumped out of China/HK, or are they really going to end up like VCR and Laserdiscs players and NO ONE at all making them? But vinyl kinda died off too but then the surge of dance music and DJing in the 90's kinda kickstarted it again and you can buy turntables everywhere now. Even today there are still a couple of VCR's being made, probably not for much longer. Its kinda sad really, why do they want to kill off DVD? You cant tell me its really becomming that unpopular. Is it just the media that is telling us we HAVE to have HDMI, High Def, Blu ray and pushing us into downloading and carting around USB sticks and hard drives? i dont know much about Blu ray and what sort of freedom you have with recording if any at all, but i would say right now there is a only a small proportion of the population that can really afford to do all what they did on VHS and DVD with Blu ray. My impression of Blu ray at the moment is that is kind of a deluxe format, like Laserdisc was and not everyone had a Laserdisc player but everyone had a VCR. What i would have liked to have seen was some sort of format that was durable like VHS, but with DVD quality. The only thing i hate about DVD's is trying to keep them scratch free and always dealing with getting scratched or damaged DVD's from new or during shipping. Would have been so good if they could come up with some sort of hard surface that you could not scratch. Even if it was some sort of thin hard glass, that would be way better than the plastic they use. Oh well, guess its too late now.
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post #96 of 156 Old 02-29-2012, 08:54 AM
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After much thought and much reading on this forum I bought the Magnavox 513 from Walmart. Got the 3 yr. extended warranty for $30. When it breaks it will more than likely be just after that warranty expires (yup, Murphy told me so) but on the reviews @Walmart there were enough 1 & 2 ratings where the machine broke after only a few months that I figured it was worth it and since the Maganvox I have now is only two years old and is fritzy . . yeah, for $30 I got the warranty.

Am still interested in other ways to permanently record off of tv though. Saw the info about using a PC as a recording device. Interesting and certainly food for thought.
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post #97 of 156 Old 02-29-2012, 09:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyclone82 View Post

What i would have liked to have seen was some sort of format that was durable like VHS, but with DVD quality.

We had that. D-VHS.

Hardly anyone bought it.

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post #98 of 156 Old 02-29-2012, 12:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulpa View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyclone82 View Post

What i would have liked to have seen was some sort of format that was durable like VHS, but with DVD quality.

We had that. D-VHS.

Hardly anyone bought it.

Did you ever compare the per minute prices on those tapes to T-120s? Small wonder.

Besides, how many people could play their VHS tapes in their D-VHS machines? For most it meant 2 machines needed, more than a lot of TVs had line inputs.

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post #99 of 156 Old 02-29-2012, 06:46 PM
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Originally Posted by mrmazda View Post

Did you ever compare the per minute prices on those tapes to T-120s? Small wonder.

Besides, how many people could play their VHS tapes in their D-VHS machines? For most it meant 2 machines needed, more than a lot of TVs had line inputs.

The DVHS VCRs are fully backward compatible with analog (S)VHS and even have fancy noise reduction circuitry (DigiPure 4MB , TBC) specifically for analog VHS tapes. Most of the posters over at the AVS HD recorders sub forum claim that DVHS VCRs work great for play back and transferring of VHS, SVHS, and ET-SVHS tapes.

As for the cost per hour using tape:
Many owners are using T120 SVHS tapes to record digital HD and SD.

-Using a T120 SVHS tape will get you 12 hrs of content at the L3 standard def speed, which equals the quality of DVD-R at SP or 4.7Mbps.

-In full HD a T120 SVHS tape will get you 2 hours of content at 28.2 Mbit/s.
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post #100 of 156 Old 02-29-2012, 07:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Super Eye View Post

The DVHS VCRs are fully backward compatible with analog (S)VHS and even have fancy noise reduction circuitry (DigiPure 4MB , TBC) specifically for analog VHS tapes. Most of the posters over at the AVS HD recorders sub forum claim that DVHS VCRs work great for play back and transferring of VHS, SVHS, and ET-SVHS tapes.

As for the cost per hour using tape:
Many owners are using T120 SVHS tapes to record digital HD and SD.

-Using a T120 SVHS tape will get you 12 hrs of content at the L3 standard def speed, which equals the quality of DVD-R at SP or 4.7Mbps.

-In full HD a T120 SVHS tape will get you 2 hours of content at 28.2 Mbit/s.

Back last century when my Mitsubishi tape machines were on their last legs the only things in retail stores here with any editing functions were JVC. I tried those. Average life on those I bought was about 2 years before I gave up recording at all pending affordable DVD recorders to replace them. Doing all that VCR shopping I don't remember seeing even one DVHS machine on a store shelf.

Of course, now that I'm spoiled by recording to DVD and HD and commercials removal, I'd never dream of creating a new recording on any kind of tape except in a very unlikely dire emergency, not likely with 5 Funais, 2 Pioneers and multiple puters.

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post #101 of 156 Old 02-29-2012, 07:14 PM
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My very heavily used 2002 JVC SVHS HR-S3911U and lightly used 2003 JVC SVHS HR-S5912U both still work like new. I'm only sorry I didn't scoop up a brand new in box with full warrantee JVC DVHS deck when B+H were blowing them out for under $200 a couple years ago. Most of the folks at the AVS digital recorder sub forum love em.

Any way, I was just correcting you and pointing out that DVHS is fully backward compatible with analog VHS, in fact they even play out in progressive. And that the cost per hour rec time isn't that bad.

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Of course, now that I'm spoiled by recording to DVD and HD and commercials removal, I'd never dream of creating a new recording on any kind of tape except in a very unlikely dire emergency, not likely with 5 Funais, 2 Pioneers and multiple puters.

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post #102 of 156 Old 02-29-2012, 07:21 PM
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My favorite local audio/video shop sold them and my friend bought at least one. Most of them were very finnicky about how they'd work and things. I thought seriously about getting a used one when I first got my HDTV and LG 4200a tuner that could do OTA and clear QAM. Last VCR's I bought were a JVC 9600 and a Mistubishi 795 Svhs decks so I could edit and dub between them, same problem I had when I got my first HiFI deck, then I needed another so I could keep the sound quality.
The 795 had much better editing capabilities and the JVC did a better job of playing back older tapes with it's 4 meg DTBC circuit. I still have the JVC hooked up, I boxed up the Mistu as I don't really use tape anymore and the JVC plays the few old tapes we dig up nicer for dub to disk.
My first quality VCR was a Sony slv 676 that had great editing goodies so I was looking for a SVHS deck that could match it. I didn't want to spend the money the SVHS SLVR5 would have costs back then or I would have gotten it.
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post #103 of 156 Old 02-29-2012, 07:39 PM
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I seriously considered D-VHS when it came out. My main factors to consider was I wanted to avoid degradation over time like with analog SVHS/VHS, and to get into the digital world of lossless copying. What steered me away from D-VHS was the lack of random access that DVDR offered. I hated the thought of having to continue to FF/RW tapes. At the time, HD was not even really on the radar yet. Also, blank DVD-Rs were starting to come down, and computer DVDR drives were also an option. So I went the DVDR route.
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post #104 of 156 Old 03-01-2012, 01:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gmacted View Post

I've been watching this thread: Ceton announces new 6-tuner outboard whole-house DVR system. No OTA recording, but it looks promising for cable users.

Here are some links to this "coming soon" product:

Ceton Q

Ceton Echo
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post #105 of 156 Old 03-01-2012, 02:12 PM
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Don't make me go back to cable to get this.
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post #106 of 156 Old 03-02-2012, 11:08 AM
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Here are some links to this "coming soon" product:

Ceton Q

Ceton Echo


Thanks for posting this. I wonder . . . will tvs someday have this type of technology already incorporated into it?
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post #107 of 156 Old 03-02-2012, 11:43 PM
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I had an idea for DVD replacement that i would be willing to accept. If this is not available already, i would like to see some sort of card media be a replacement. Something along the lines of SD card/SSD drive/USB stick but with the life span of optical discs. As you know Flash drives can all of a sudden stop working and a few bumps to a hard drive could damage files. They are not fool proof and most people using them now, still have back up copies on discs just to be safe. Unless you are using SSD drives then there is always the fact that hard drives are mechanical and could fail/wear out.

I like the idea of card technology. I am looking at a SD card now in its little clear container. very compact and portable. Can they develop these so they basically last forever unless subjected to extreme temps and abuse and be as reliable as a disc which sometimes can be tempermental but are not too bad really. If you take care of them you can pretty much trust they will be ok. Even if all they can hold is 10 gigs it would not be too bad, but i think if they were made to be able to hold 3 hours at full 1080p HD that would be nice. Most movies would fit on one.

Then all there needs to be is a reader/writer to plug into your set top box or whatever and in theory the system could work so you dont need a PC so that would keep non PC people happy.

Now i do know SD/micro SD cards currently do work for movies, particularly in mobile phones. If they could optimise them for full size formats (not just divx) and make them a viable long term safe storage i would be happy. Or even if its an SSD or USB drive. As long as i have the confidence the data is not going to just fall off and it is as reliable as a DVD i would be happy. I also think the small capacity is better and have 1 card per film so if one card went bad, well you have lost one movie, but if your HDD with 500 movies on it goes bad, you could loose the lot.
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post #108 of 156 Old 03-02-2012, 11:55 PM
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I had an idea for DVD replacement that i would be willing to accept. If this is not available already, i would like to see some sort of card media be a replacement. Something along the lines of SD card/SSD drive/USB stick but with the life span of optical discs. As you know Flash drives can all of a sudden stop working and a few bumps to a hard drive could damage files. They are not fool proof and most people using them now, still have back up copies on discs just to be safe. Unless you are using SSD drives then there is always the fact that hard drives are mechanical and could fail/wear out.

I like the idea of card technology. I am looking at a SD card now in its little clear container. very compact and portable. Can they develop these so they basically last forever unless subjected to extreme temps and abuse and be as reliable as a disc which sometimes can be tempermental but are not too bad really. If you take care of them you can pretty much trust they will be ok. Even if all they can hold is 10 gigs it would not be too bad, but i think if they were made to be able to hold 3 hours at full 1080p HD that would be nice. Most movies would fit on one.

Then all there needs to be is a reader/writer to plug into your set top box or whatever and in theory the system could work so you dont need a PC so that would keep non PC people happy.

Now i do know SD/micro SD cards currently do work for movies, particularly in mobile phones. If they could optimise them for full size formats (not just divx) and make them a viable long term safe storage i would be happy. Or even if its an SSD or USB drive. As long as i have the confidence the data is not going to just fall off and it is as reliable as a DVD i would be happy. I also think the small capacity is better and have 1 card per film so if one card went bad, well you have lost one movie, but if your HDD with 500 movies on it goes bad, you could loose the lot.
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post #109 of 156 Old 03-03-2012, 03:34 PM
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No good. Too small to write the title on one.

That would be fine if the cost could be the same as a disc, but I doubt you can make one to sell for anywhere near the cost of a disc. $.40 versus $5 now?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyclone82 View Post

I had an idea for DVD replacement that i would be willing to accept. If this is not available already, i would like to see some sort of card media be a replacement. Something along the lines of SD card/SSD drive/USB stick but with the life span of optical discs. As you know Flash drives can all of a sudden stop working and a few bumps to a hard drive could damage files. They are not fool proof and most people using them now, still have back up copies on discs just to be safe. Unless you are using SSD drives then there is always the fact that hard drives are mechanical and could fail/wear out.

I like the idea of card technology. I am looking at a SD card now in its little clear container. very compact and portable. Can they develop these so they basically last forever unless subjected to extreme temps and abuse and be as reliable as a disc which sometimes can be tempermental but are not too bad really. If you take care of them you can pretty much trust they will be ok. Even if all they can hold is 10 gigs it would not be too bad, but i think if they were made to be able to hold 3 hours at full 1080p HD that would be nice. Most movies would fit on one.

Then all there needs to be is a reader/writer to plug into your set top box or whatever and in theory the system could work so you dont need a PC so that would keep non PC people happy.

Now i do know SD/micro SD cards currently do work for movies, particularly in mobile phones. If they could optimise them for full size formats (not just divx) and make them a viable long term safe storage i would be happy. Or even if its an SSD or USB drive. As long as i have the confidence the data is not going to just fall off and it is as reliable as a DVD i would be happy. I also think the small capacity is better and have 1 card per film so if one card went bad, well you have lost one movie, but if your HDD with 500 movies on it goes bad, you could loose the lot.

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post #110 of 156 Old 03-11-2012, 12:20 PM
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Just to let those of you that just want to easily capture video from you cable or other settop HD box know, the Huapage 1212 capture box is on sale at Best Buy this week for what looks to be a better price then Amazon or others are selling it at.
I'm kinda tempted myself, even though I have the HD HomeRun Prime becuase I THINK I could capture movies from my one premium channel or On Demand without the stupid copy once flag or WTV format hassles of those two options. As far as all my regular shows and one offs it's been great but if I want to watch any movie channel captures I have to do it in here or get a extender as of now so... Hope a few of you on the fence and thinking this is what you want get in on the deal.
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post #111 of 156 Old 03-11-2012, 12:23 PM - Thread Starter
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Is this the link?

What's with the "Up to 1 Mbps data recording rate" in the specs?
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post #112 of 156 Old 03-11-2012, 12:29 PM
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Yep, that's the link to the deal this week, seems like a great price but I didn't do a price search, thanks. By the way I like the way you have the first page post laid out so folks can go right to where they might need info and I seem to be a featured player
As far as the 1Mbps I think that's a typo as even a compressed HD file will be bigger than that bitrate and it does the compression inside the box so your PC doesn't have to try and do the heavy lifting. I bet other places selling it have the right specs, or their official page for it plus pretty sure there is a thread about it here like any of the other cool devices some of us use.
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post #113 of 156 Old 03-11-2012, 12:32 PM - Thread Starter
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Yes, you are! And thanks for the useful contributions!
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post #114 of 156 Old 03-11-2012, 12:42 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
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As far as the 1Mbps I think that's a typo as even a compressed HD file will be bigger than that bitrate and it does the compression inside the box so your PC doesn't have to try and do the heavy lifting. I bet other places selling it have the right specs, or their official page for it plus pretty sure there is a thread about it here like any of the other cool devices some of us use.

Here's portion of an Amazon Review of the 1212 by Maureen Swan (I think she meant Mbps):

"It support frame rates up to 60fps, maybe beyond. Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2 in 720p at 60fps looks absolutely beautiful. The device lets you change the bitrate from 1MBps to 13.5MBps, so you can increase the quality of the video and sacrifice a small file size, if you wish. I find 8MBps to be a good balance. It allows you to fit 1 - 1.5 hours into around 5GB, and it still provides video that's good enough for YouTube HD uploads and similar casual usage. If you're going for production-quality video with almost no compression artifacts, you can easily increase the bit rate, but you're going to pay for it in file size and the power it requires to process."
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post #115 of 156 Old 03-11-2012, 12:55 PM
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Well that's what I thought as I remember reading about this when I was deciding what to do about capturing content now that most everything is encrypted. I really thought about buying one of these then but didn't want a box tied just to my cable box so I couldn't watch anything else while it was capturing, but now that I have the Prime it might be a extra toy for those movie channels and on demand things that I'd probably be watching anyways and the other box will capture anything else I might want to watch...OH the possibilities...
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post #116 of 156 Old 03-12-2012, 12:36 AM
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Surely some company has/will come out with a device/software that will overcome the new encryption/copy protection? I use AnyDvd on my computer and that gets past any DVD i throw at it, including Sony's which allows me to back them up a hard disc. If you look back at the past, there has always been ways to overcome copy protection like Macrosvison etc. Have they really thought up a way that will stop all copying/recording now? I doubt it, there will be someone who figures it out.
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post #117 of 156 Old 03-12-2012, 09:47 AM
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There are all kinds of things for that now but Microsoft's lockdown of copy once stuff is pretty tight, even VLC wont play a copy once file for me, it just shows a gray screen with the time running. There very well might be or is a workaround but I haven't found it and it's possible that not enough people re affected yet to make it worthwhile to spend a lot of time deconstructing it.
It's about the only thing for now that's still pretty locked down and it's not worth it to me either to spend hours and hours to find a workaround when most of my goodies work fine.
It's a continuing race though and somebody will crack it then they'll make a new one and it continues. This is part of why they want to drop analog outputs like component because they can't put any or strong enough DRM on it.
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post #118 of 156 Old 03-12-2012, 10:03 AM - Thread Starter
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Have you seen this article on "Some Hidden Tips & Tricks of VLC Player"?

I didn't know there was a hidden RECORD button for recording while you watch!

Lots of other VLC hacks online, this one caught my eye.
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post #119 of 156 Old 03-12-2012, 10:12 AM
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Well I'll have to look at that link then and see what else it can do. I always just use it to watch any video format in here and never really thought about it having any hidden features
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post #120 of 156 Old 03-22-2012, 06:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dartman View Post

Just to let those of you that just want to easily capture video from you cable or other settop HD box know, the Huapage 1212 capture box is on sale at Best Buy this week for what looks to be a better price then Amazon or others are selling it at.
I'm kinda tempted myself, even though I have the HD HomeRun Prime becuase I THINK I could capture movies from my one premium channel or On Demand without the stupid copy once flag or WTV format hassles of those two options. As far as all my regular shows and one offs it's been great but if I want to watch any movie channel captures I have to do it in here or get a extender as of now so... Hope a few of you on the fence and thinking this is what you want get in on the deal.

Since this thread got started, I've been thinking about about life after my beloved Philips 3575....

I mainly use the Philips with my Dish Network 722k (strictly making DVD's)
  • DVR TCM Movies
  • Some Hockey Games
  • Converted desired VHS Tapes
  • Converted Family Hi8 Tapes
  • Some Movies from Epix - MGMHD - Retro - Sony Movie Channel etc.

I like the convenience of the combo DVDR....But I know the future is not looking bright with my current method.

I've been looking at continuing my present method's but improving overall quality. I've kept the Hauppauge 1212 in my thoughts of going towards this goal.

I kicked around the Hauppauge Colossus (internal computer card), but it needs a PCIe slot which is being used for a video card, so this is out.

The 1212 is a possibility but the PC is around 15ft away from the TV area, so I have some concern with USB cable length. I am intrigued by the possible improvement of picture quality (480 vs 720/1080i) of what I'm doing now.

I'm comfortable with using the computer to transfer Dish DVR'd recordings >>Hauppauage>>>to computer for post-production. From what I read , the software can be good or an interesting adventure. Computers can be a frustrating device, had good success with the Philips for 3-4 years

Lots of good reading in this thread

Steve
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