Yes, another short lived EH59 thread. - AVS Forum
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Old 02-23-2012, 10:59 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by PCdoc7 View Post

I realize time is running out - although Used units will be available for many years.

Anyway - I see the various Magnovox recommendations (wajo and others) - but do not know which is best.
I also see the Panny recommendations (CitiBear, jjeff and others) but do not know which is best.

Can I get a FINAL recommendation of the best Unit - that I can get a backup Fuse, Fan, and DVD drive for . . . and that is not likely to have a DVD drive that will burn out in 2 years like many of these do. I want one that will play PAL DVDs but I do not need to record in PAL.

Thanks a lot !!!

Slightly off topic, so I started a new thread...

J & R currently has an open-box EH59 listed on their site for $270. There have been a couple of people here saying that they would purchase one if it came in at an open-box price. I haven't seen an open-box unit for quite a while, and the last one, I think, was from B & H, before Christmas. It lasted only hours on their site, so these things are sought after, at least by a small number of enthusiasts.

Luke

Evil is charming and beautiful. It makes you doubt yourself. It asks for one small compromise after another until it whittles you down, and it functions best when no one believes in it.-JOA
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Old 02-23-2012, 11:34 AM
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Got mine last summer

If you like the Panny Interface, an EH59 or '69 is your best shot at continuing to enjoy it for a few more years to come.
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Old 02-23-2012, 04:09 PM
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Great machines really, very sharp recording and playback but they do have a couple little caveats mentioned in my signature thread. Why anyone would pay more for a EH-55 is beyond me, other than if they really need the analog tuner or are very fussy about black levels.
I should probably grab this but with 6 hdd Panasonics in my stable......well just how many does one guy need
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Old 02-23-2012, 04:55 PM
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Originally Posted by jjeff View Post

Why anyone would pay more for a EH-55 is beyond me, other than if they really need the analog tuner or are very fussy about black levels.

How about if they are an OTA user and have CECB (Like the Channel Master) that can be used with the IR blaster. Do those import models come with IR blasters?

- kelson h

The bitterness of poor quality lasts long after the sweetness of the low price is forgotten . . . life is too short to drink bad wine

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Old 02-23-2012, 04:59 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjeff View Post

Great machines really, very sharp recording and playback but they do have a couple little caveats mentioned in my signature thread. Why anyone would pay more for a EH-55 is beyond me, other than if they really need the analog tuner or are very fussy about black levels.
I should probably grab this but with 6 hdd Panasonics in my stable......well just how many does one guy need

Are you quite sure you are in the right forum? With me and DigaDo...

Luke

Evil is charming and beautiful. It makes you doubt yourself. It asks for one small compromise after another until it whittles you down, and it functions best when no one believes in it.-JOA
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Old 02-23-2012, 07:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelson View Post

How about if they are an OTA user and have CECB (Like the Channel Master) that can be used with the IR blaster. Do those import models come with IR blasters?

No, no IR blaster. I guess someone with a cheap DTA cable converter(only RF outputs) would also need the tuner, even if only analog.
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Old 02-23-2012, 08:10 PM
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got my 2nd EH55 all set to be up and running within a week...so no need for me

Must have IR blaster
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Old 02-23-2012, 08:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Church AV Guy View Post

Are you quite sure you are in the right forum? With me and DigaDo...

I have three Panny HDD/DVD models, two DMR-EH50 models and one DMR-EH75 model.

I have eight (or is it nine?) Magnavox HDD/DVD models and two Philips HDD/DVD models.

But who's counting?

"A ROSE BY ANY OTHER NAME WILL SMELL AS SWEET. BUT IT DOES NOT FOLLOW THAT WHATEVER WE CHOOSE TO CALL A ROSE WILL POSSESS THE ROSE'S FRAGRANCE."

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Old 02-23-2012, 08:46 PM
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Originally Posted by DigaDo View Post

I have three Panny HDD/DVD models, two DMR-EH50 models and one DMR-EH75 model.

I have eight (or is it nine?) Magnavox HDD/DVD models and two Philips HDD/DVD models.

But who's counting?


have any non-HDD models?
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Old 02-23-2012, 09:01 PM
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Originally Posted by billmich View Post

have any non-HDD models?

Yes, around thirty Panasonic DVD Recorders, eight (or so) Funai manufactured DVD Recorders (including Magnavox, Toshiba, PYE, Emerson and Symphonic) and one Insignia (manufactured by LG).

"A ROSE BY ANY OTHER NAME WILL SMELL AS SWEET. BUT IT DOES NOT FOLLOW THAT WHATEVER WE CHOOSE TO CALL A ROSE WILL POSSESS THE ROSE'S FRAGRANCE."

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Old 02-23-2012, 09:19 PM
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Welcome to the DigaDo Museum.
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Old 02-23-2012, 09:27 PM
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Just ordered an Open Box EH59 from J&R, $269.50, free shipping.
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Old 02-24-2012, 05:47 AM
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^^^yep, it now shows "sold out", welcome to the club
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Old 02-24-2012, 11:29 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjeff View Post

...I should probably grab this but with 6 hdd Panasonics in my stable......well just how many does one guy need

Quote:
Originally Posted by Church AV Guy View Post

Are you quite sure you are in the right forum? With me and DigaDo...

Quote:
Originally Posted by DigaDo View Post

I have three Panny HDD/DVD models, two DMR-EH50 models and one DMR-EH75 model.

I have eight (or is it nine?) Magnavox HDD/DVD models and two Philips HDD/DVD models.

But who's counting?

Quote:
Originally Posted by billmich View Post

have any non-HDD models?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DigaDo View Post

Yes, around thirty Panasonic DVD Recorders, eight (or so) Funai manufactured DVD Recorders (including Magnavox, Toshiba, PYE, Emerson and Symphonic) and one Insignia (manufactured by LG).

And that was my point to jjeff. He was satisfied with just six! I have ten (or is it 11 now?) and DigaDo has 13 or 14 various HDD equipped models, and 39 total. How can he be satisfied with a measly six?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RichardT View Post

Just ordered an Open Box EH59 from J&R, $269.50, free shipping.

And there it is, I posted at 10:00AM (my time) and it was reported as sold at 8:30PM. Ten and a half hours. When on a sale like this, those things don't last too long.

Luke

Evil is charming and beautiful. It makes you doubt yourself. It asks for one small compromise after another until it whittles you down, and it functions best when no one believes in it.-JOA
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Old 02-24-2012, 11:33 AM
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And DigaDo just ordered his second Maggie 515 sixteen minutes ago.

I haven't used my first 515 in months as the hard drive is nearly full. One of these days I'll have to give it some attention. I've been busy lately high-speed dubbing material to DVDs from my Maggie 2080 (with the 160GB hard drive) and my Philips 3576. Next, I'll be doing the same with one Maggie 2160 model, two 2160A models and two Panny DMR-EH50 models. Whew!

"A ROSE BY ANY OTHER NAME WILL SMELL AS SWEET. BUT IT DOES NOT FOLLOW THAT WHATEVER WE CHOOSE TO CALL A ROSE WILL POSSESS THE ROSE'S FRAGRANCE."

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Old 02-24-2012, 11:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Church AV Guy View Post

And that was my point to jjeff. He was satisfied with just six! I have ten (or is it 11 now?) and DigaDo has 13 or 14 various HDD equipped models, and 39 total. How can he be satisfied with a measly six?

I feel so inadequate. 3576, 513 & 515 currently in use. One 513 as a backup (once I replace the faulty unit). I do have a Philips DVDR72 that I'm ready to part with...any takers?
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Old 02-24-2012, 11:45 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by DigaDo View Post

And DigaDo just ordered his second Maggie 515 sixteen minutes ago.

I haven't used my first 515 in months as the hard drive is nearly full... Whew!


Um, you ARE aware that these things are equipped with a DVD *WRITER* so you can copy content FROM the hard drive TO optical media, right? You don't need to fill the HDD and then get another machine when that one is full.

Unless of course you want to.

Luke

Evil is charming and beautiful. It makes you doubt yourself. It asks for one small compromise after another until it whittles you down, and it functions best when no one believes in it.-JOA
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Old 02-27-2012, 04:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjeff View Post

Great machines really, very sharp recording and playback but they do have a couple little caveats mentioned in my signature thread.

from a perfection standpoint, I understand how 0 IRE and 7.5 IRE are different and so on. My question is, in all practically, to a semi-untrained eye who is recording mostly sporting events, how 'off' are the black levels on these international machines?
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Old 02-27-2012, 04:57 PM
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A easy way to simulate how being off by +7.5 IRE is would be to go into a US Panasonic and under SETUP, VIDEO and BLACK LEVEL CONTROL set it up to simulate a lighter setting.
The correct settings for N. America should be:

INPUT LEVEL-darker
OUTPUT LEVEL COMPOSITE/SVIDEO-Lighter
OUTPUT LEVEL COMPONENT-normal

To simulate what a international Panasonic would look like you could change INPUT LEVEL to lighter(note you'd have to be watching something through the DVDR and hooked to one of it's line inputs). If you watch your DVDR from component output you could also change OUTPUT LEVEL COMPONENT to LIGHTER. Note the last setting is only visable if you are watching through the Pannys component output, it won't effect the SD or HDMI outputs.

To answer you question directly, it's not very noticeable. I made many recordings(for several months) with one of my ES-30v's INPUT LEVEL incorrectly set to LIGHTER. I didn't really notice it until one time I was reading the titles on a movie and it was supposed to be a black background with white titles. Problem was the background wasn't totally black but more dark greyish. I knew the original was white on black so I tried to figure out what was going on. Finally I realized that setting had somehow got set wrong. Unfortunately several months worth of DVDs had been recorded with a slightly elevated black level. I looked over them but decided against re-recording them all since is just wasn't all that bad. If I looked for it or it was a situation of white titles against a black background it was noticeable but with a normal scene it just wasn't that bad.
Since that incident I've been more aware of black levels so when I got my EH-59 I realized fairly quickly the black level was elevated, which lead me to do some research and I found out the Panasonic internationals lack the BLACK LEVEL settings found on all N. American Panasonics since '03.
As to whether you see it or if it bothers you, the easiest way to check is to set a N. American Panasonic to the international standard by going into the setup. I've never seen this issue mentioned by any reviewer on a N. American site so must people must not notice or care, I just like to make people aware.

It you use a video filter like a Sima they can also elevate the black level(my guess is also about +7.5). With my incorrectly set ES-30v a couple of my recordings were made with the Sima also inline. Those recordings I chose to rerecord since upon playback they were noticeable too light, they were 7.5+7.5 for a total of +15 which I would think most anyone would notice and probably not care for.

I really only use my EH-59 to record from another DVD player, that player has a DARKER setting(normal setting for N. America would be lighter). Having that setting set to DARKER makes my recordings from that DVD player come out just perfect. Unfortunately VCRs or things like DVRs or STBs don't have such a DARKER setting so the only option to make perfect recordings in that case would be to use a inline device with brightness settings.
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Old 02-27-2012, 05:06 PM
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FYI, I did read up on an earlier thread on the subject, very informative...no easy solutions
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Old 02-27-2012, 07:23 PM
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To me + or - 7.5 IRE is quite noticeable. But that's because A) I come from a broadcast background and am trained to notice levels and B) I have a pretty good CRT that I've calibrated. I think on LCDs it's less noticeable.

The good news is that - + 7.5 IRE is within tolerance of the actual black level spec and does not actually over modulate or under modulate and can be adjusted via your brightness TV level. Many analog broadcasts and some digital broadcasts do vary by a couple IRE due to going through so many different chains.

It's kinda nice that on my Sony 780 and I believe on the 640 or later Pioneers the black level between 0 IRE and 7.5 IRE can be adjusted separately for all three individual line inputs and also adjusted separately for the line out. You can also fine-tune each I/O by adjusting + or - 1 IRE at a time.

I included a small image showing the difference between the areas marked black which are 7.5. Slightly blacker than black, the setting at 3.5 IRE (Note 3.5 IRE, not 0 IRE) and dark grey up at 11.5 IRE. Note that these levels may be slightly elevated but it should still demonstrate the difference between the levels as all three settings are equally elevated. Again the area marked "black" is 7.5 IRE.
LL
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Old 02-28-2012, 11:28 AM
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I have a couple Toshiba XS32's which were also "stuck" on the incorrect black level settings (and went WAY up the chain at Toshiba complaining about this, who vehemently denied there was ANY problem, but they sure made sure to have a brightness level settings on all future models of the XS recorders!) and the +7.5IRE IS noticeable, but mostly on very dark scenes. It's one of those problems that the more you are aware of it, the more you will notice it. Until the problems became apparent (thanks to reading this site ) I had no idea the XS32s had a problem. (although at the time my DVD players were set to "darker" modes which masked the problem)

(and Toshiba had a cute little trick of video recorded onto the XS32's hard drive was played back at the correct IRE level [it went into a "darker" mode] but then when burned on DVD it didn't compensate... so they obviously KNEW at some engineering level that the IRE levels were wrong, but didn't care enough to fix the issue on the produced DVDs)

Now that I have an HDTV (and a DVD's player "darker/lighter" settings don't usually have any sway over HDMI) many of the DVDs I recorded with the XS32 are definitely noticeably light; it's frustrating but not quite to the point that I have re-recorded anything, although I've been tempted to a few times. (especially for things like my copies of laserdiscs that were never released on DVD) It's on the list of "things to do when I have spare time", which unfortunately the list only seems to get longer and longer...!

When you really have a problem is when you give a DVD to a friend who, for whatever reason, has their set's brightness levels waaaay too artificially high; then the DVDs look very washed out. Of course there's a bigger issue there with the set calibration, but I've had some people notice the DVDs I gave them were VERY light (often people who watched them on a very bright computer screen).

Shorter version: if you notice it will really depend on your eyes, how nitpicky you are, how your playback sets are calibrated, and the content you're playing. Until you try to test it it's hard to describe.
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Old 02-28-2012, 12:51 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
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...The good news is that - + 7.5 IRE is within tolerance of the actual black level spec and does not actually over modulate or under modulate and can be adjusted via your brightness TV level.

This was the answer I was given by Panasonic asitheir reply to my question about black level on the EH59/69 (along with the "Why are you using this machine in the US anyway?" comment). That is a cop-oout of an answer. I was hoping for somthing like, but in an additional resistor in the R26 spot of the video processor board, but tht was WAY beyond them. Swapping components is just not a user-serviceable answer.

Luke

Evil is charming and beautiful. It makes you doubt yourself. It asks for one small compromise after another until it whittles you down, and it functions best when no one believes in it.-JOA
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Old 02-28-2012, 02:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Church AV Guy View Post

This was the answer I was given by Panasonic asitheir reply to my question about black level on the EH59/69 (along with the "Why are you using this machine in the US anyway?" comment).

Note the setting isn't wrong per say, it's just that the internationals are made for the rest of the world where 0 IRE is the standard. N. America is/was unique with the +7.5 standard. While I can see the internationals lacking such a IRE adjustment it was a bug for the few early DVDRs meant for N. American sale to lack such adjustments(or just be set to +7.5 for SD inputs/outputs). Thankfully with HD 0 IRE is the standard(including N. America) so with the way things are going the whole IRE issue should be a moot point at some point in the future when SD will be all but gone.
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Old 02-28-2012, 05:26 PM - Thread Starter
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Note the setting isn't wrong per say, it's just that the internationals are made for the rest of the world where 0 IRE is the standard. N. America is/was unique with the +7.5 standard. While I can see the internationals lacking such a IRE adjustment it was a bug for the few early DVDRs meant for N. American sale to lack such adjustments(or just be set to +7.5 for SD inputs/outputs). Thankfully with HD 0 IRE is the standard(including N. America) so with the way things are going the whole IRE issue should be a moot point at some point in the future when SD will be all but gone.

What I was asking of Panasonic was for a means of adjusting the black level since there was no software setting in the setup menu. They responded that in North America, I should not have that model, and the only way was to turn the brightness down on my TV. When I pressed them further, for possible a hardware solution (I use a soldering iron frequently, so I am not afraid of messing with a board that is not under warranty anyway) they said, the ONLY way is the turn down the brightness. I read this as, we don't know the answer, so do it the "easy" way, not the right way! I never claimed it was a bug, just that I wanted to change it.

Luke

Evil is charming and beautiful. It makes you doubt yourself. It asks for one small compromise after another until it whittles you down, and it functions best when no one believes in it.-JOA
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Old 02-28-2012, 07:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Church AV Guy View Post

This was the answer I was given by Panasonic "Why are you using this machine in the US anyway

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They responded that in North America, I should not have that model,

Did you tell them that you along with some other folks would gladly purchase a few North American Panasonic HDD/DVDr models if only they were available for us?
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Old 02-29-2012, 12:01 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:


Did you tell them that you along with some other folks would gladly purchase a few North American Panasonic HDD/DVDr models if only they were available for us?

No, it was "technical" guy I was talkng to at the time. He wasn't even all that technical, for my purposes anyway.

I should have though.

Luke

Evil is charming and beautiful. It makes you doubt yourself. It asks for one small compromise after another until it whittles you down, and it functions best when no one believes in it.-JOA
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Old 03-03-2012, 09:37 PM
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The Open-Box Panasonic EH59 from J&R arrived yesterday. Unpacked tonite. It specifies 220-240 volt power; came with an adapter plug to fit U S standard plugin, but no indication that it had been converted to 120 v.

I think I read somewhere that B & H converted their units to 120v.

Any suggestions, or should I call Customer Service Monday?
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Old 03-03-2012, 10:56 PM
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I have asked about this and they said the voltage is switched internally. They dont open it up and manually adjust anything or 'modify' anything otherwise it would be false advertising saying they are capable for 220/240v. All you need is the right plug for your AC outlet and the 220/240v to 110/120v is switched automatically inside. I found this out this morning. I dont know how it works but there must be a sensor inside.
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Old 03-05-2012, 01:11 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
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The Open-Box Panasonic EH59 from J&R arrived yesterday. Unpacked tonite. It specifies 220-240 volt power; came with an adapter plug to fit U S standard plugin, but no indication that it had been converted to 120 v.

I think I read somewhere that B & H converted their units to 120v.

Any suggestions, or should I call Customer Service Monday?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyclone82 View Post

I have asked about this and they said the voltage is switched internally. They dont open it up and manually adjust anything or 'modify' anything otherwise it would be false advertising saying they are capable for 220/240v. All you need is the right plug for your AC outlet and the 220/240v to 110/120v is switched automatically inside. I found this out this morning. I dont know how it works but there must be a sensor inside.

The unit has a voltage sensing power supply. The adapter is all you need. No, the people at B&H, nor the ones at J&R (nor anyone else for that matter) modify their units for 120v. The most agressive thing I have seen is that the World-Import people place a 120V sticker on the back of the unit, that is all it is, a sticker. I asked,and they said it was for customer peace of mind, and they in no way took the cover off the unit or did anything to it except make it region free. (They were a little vague on that point, and refused to discuss it further. There must be an UNLOCK code entered from the remote, but like I said, they would not elaborate.)

Just plug it in and start using it.

Luke

Evil is charming and beautiful. It makes you doubt yourself. It asks for one small compromise after another until it whittles you down, and it functions best when no one believes in it.-JOA
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