The HDD is a temporary storage device? - Page 2 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #31 of 58 Old 03-11-2012, 05:07 PM
AVS Special Member
 
jjeff's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Minneapolis MN
Posts: 9,912
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 154 Post(s)
Liked: 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveC E100 View Post

I started out with a DMR-E100 in 2003 for $834 and then bought a E85 in 2004 for $477. Then in 2005 I saw this deal on the E95 for $350....
Dave

What else would a person expect from someone who's name is DaveC E100 and joined AVS in 2003
Where did you purchase your HDD Pannys back then? BB or maybe Audio King? I hung onto VCRs until '05 and didn't really learn about HDD DVDRs until '07(one year after Panasonic dropped out of the US market)
jjeff is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #32 of 58 Old 03-11-2012, 06:16 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Cyclone82's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Australia
Posts: 460
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 14
As i am not in USA, can you please tell me what 'MPAA' is?
Cyclone82 is offline  
post #33 of 58 Old 03-11-2012, 06:34 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Tulpa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 10,026
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 59
Motion Picture Association of America. It's a trade organization representing Hollywood studios. Some are convinced that they're behind the failure of DVD recorders. I personally think it's nonsense, but some people want a "bad guy" to blame. The MPAA has been behind some initiatives regarding copyright.

What killed the DVD recorder in the USA was the proliferation of the cable PVR/TiVo-ish devices. People here want to record and watch shows later, but few want to keep them for posterity, and those who do just buy the commercial DVDs and call it a day.

Don't believe everything on the Interwebz! A duck's quack DOES echo!
Tulpa is offline  
post #34 of 58 Old 03-11-2012, 07:18 PM
Senior Member
 
rkg22's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Posts: 365
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveC E100 View Post

I started out with a DMR-E100 in 2003 for $834 and then bought a E85 in 2004 for $477. Then in 2005 I saw this deal on the E95 for $350. I like to have back-ups to everything and each succeeding model had a larger hard drive. The E95 is my workhorse now. The E100 is setting here with a lot of stuff on it's hard drive which I haven't had time to edit and get off to RAM. I switched from the E100 to the E95 mainly because the E100 didn't have thumbnail pictures in it's index. My E85 is still in the box having never been powered up. It is my backup to my backup.

Since the digital TV transition it is a bit of a pain to do timed recordings having to use a converter box. I will never have cable or satellite so the converter box is my only answer, Getting the aspect setting right is a challenge because I never know in advance just how the local PBS station is going to transmit each program. Last night they rebroadcast the Peter, Paul and Mary 25th Anniversary, shrunk in from all 4 sides so I will have to catch tonights broadcast and set the converter box to "cropped" to be able to fill most of the screen and still keep the aspect right. I think they purposely screw up the aspect ratio just to keep people like me that like to record their programs and edit out all the pledge breaks, on their toes?

Nobody will ever convince me that the lack of DVD recorders in the USA is because of "lack of demand". The MPAA with their high powered lawyers have scared the Japan manufacturers into full retreat. Only China is willing to test the MPAA with a model or two and that will probably end soon? We will never again have anything that records anything if the MPAA has it's way. That is why I need backups to the backups.

Dave

hi dave..

my sentiments exactly...

got my e95 as a gift in mid-2004. it's still in service today. connected to CATV but i have a DTVPAL mixed into it to keep the TVGOS alive.

i do have a real service manual for the E95 if you have any interest in that..

rgds,
ron g
rkg22 is offline  
post #35 of 58 Old 03-11-2012, 09:47 PM
AVS Special Member
 
DaveC E100's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Twin Cities, MN, USA
Posts: 1,185
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjeff View Post

What else would a person expect from someone who's name is DaveC E100 and joined AVS in 2003
Where did you purchase your HDD Pannys back then? BB or maybe Audio King? I hung onto VCRs until '05 and didn't really learn about HDD DVDRs until '07(one year after Panasonic dropped out of the US market)

Mine all came from the Internet. I can't remember just how I learned about them. It might have been from browsing AVS before I registered?
11-03-03 E100 BUYDIG.com $814 + $20 S&H
8-04-04 E85 eCOST.com $470 + $7 S&H
4-07-05 E95 BUY.com $350 Free Shipping

I was a moderator on the Digital8 forum on Camcorderinfo.com starting about 1999 I think and these DVD Recorders seemed to be a natural compliment to the digital camcorders and their firewire ports.

I still have 3 Hi8 VCR's with PCM & HiFi stereo sound and probably 7 Super VHS VCR's and maybe 20 VHS VCR's? They all still work as far as I know. I got my VHS VCR's in the late 70's and 1st video camera about 1980 when they were first available to the general public. I remember my first video where I took one of my 2 Panasonic PV-1000 VCR's that weighed a ton and put it in a wheelbarrow and ran 200' of extension cords out to the edge of my pond and videoed my 2-1/2 acre back yard. It was probably late March and most of the snow had melted and the crows were making a lot of noise. That was thrilling to have color video with SOUND. Before that it was 8mm silent film. What a huge breakthrough that first video camera was.

Those PV-1000's and a year later PV-1100 all came from LaBelles in Roseville. VHS video tapes were about $30 each so I was careful about using those expensive tapes. In todays $ that would probably be about $60 for one T-120 tape. My first battery powered Panasonic VCR came about 1981 from Sound Of Music in Roseville. Shortly after that they changed their name to Best Buy. It's hard to believe all the changes that have happened in the last 35 years.

Dave
DaveC E100 is offline  
post #36 of 58 Old 03-11-2012, 10:13 PM
AVS Special Member
 
DaveC E100's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Twin Cities, MN, USA
Posts: 1,185
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulpa View Post

Motion Picture Association of America. It's a trade organization representing Hollywood studios. Some are convinced that they're behind the failure of DVD recorders. I personally think it's nonsense, but some people want a "bad guy" to blame. The MPAA has been behind some initiatives regarding copyright.

What killed the DVD recorder in the USA was the proliferation of the cable PVR/TiVo-ish devices. People here want to record and watch shows later, but few want to keep them for posterity, and those who do just buy the commercial DVDs and call it a day.

Everybody is entitled to their own opinion. My point is "if the supply suddenly drys up then the sales will fall off dramatically". It's kinda like "Which came first, the chicken or the egg"? I know the music industry tried and failed to stop recordable CD's. The movie industry was watching closely and were determined not to let happen to DVD's what happened to CD's. They bought the needed votes in congress and then went after the manufacturers in Japan. The MPAA has billions of dollars. Panasonic, Pioneer, Toshiba and others had thousands of dollars. With the money, congress and the best lawyers money can buy, guess who wins that contest. It was no coincidence that all of Japans manufacturers stopped importing DVD Recorders to the USA at the same time. The 2000 lb gorilla was ready to kill them so they quit.

That's just my opinion but it is the only one that makes sense. The best way to limit competition is to kill it.

Dave
DaveC E100 is offline  
post #37 of 58 Old 03-11-2012, 10:15 PM
Advanced Member
 
RichardT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Clarkston, Washington (State), Southeast corner
Posts: 923
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Regarding the Type 4 DVD-RAM (Double-sided cartridge, Type 2 is single-sided Cartridge), the type 4 loaded and played in my Panasonic E100H and E85H. My reason for getting the E85H was to copy dvd to hdd. I didn't try the dvd-to-hdd copy tonight, so don't know if it is high speed; on the EH55 it is a high speed copy. The -r copies to the hdd in real time on the EH55 and presumably the E85H as well. The E100H does not support native dvd-to-hdd, though it can be done by connecting the output terminals to input, starting the HDD RECORD from the connected input, and switching device to DVD and pressing PLAY.

I find it interesting that the Panasonic S27 or S29 players do not support the cartridge, though they will play the bare dvd-ram.
RichardT is offline  
post #38 of 58 Old 03-11-2012, 10:20 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Kelson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Delaware - The First State (USA)
Posts: 10,413
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 485 Post(s)
Liked: 430
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulpa View Post

Motion Picture Association of America. It's a trade organization representing Hollywood studios. Some are convinced that they're behind the failure of DVD recorders. I personally think it's nonsense, but some people want a "bad guy" to blame. The MPAA has been behind some initiatives regarding copyright.

What killed the DVD recorder in the USA was the proliferation of the cable PVR/TiVo-ish devices. People here want to record and watch shows later, but few want to keep them for posterity, and those who do just buy the commercial DVDs and call it a day.

I'll agree with you and add my view. It wasn't just the cable-DVR/TiVo devices, but what they signified -- the digital transition. The digital transition killed DVD recorders. The digital transition ushered in the era of HDTV and DVD recorders didn't keep pace. The market majority wants to record and watch later -- but not in SD. If they have paid the money for an HD flat-screen they want to watch HD, not regurgitated SD. HDTV made DVD recorders as obsolete as VCR's. DVD recorders put the nail in their own coffins by not adapting to at least allow HD recording/playback from the HDD. That and their lack of cable card support sealed their fate.

- kelson h

The bitterness of poor quality lasts long after the sweetness of the low price is forgotten . . . life is too short to drink bad wine

Kelson is offline  
post #39 of 58 Old 03-11-2012, 10:23 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Tulpa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 10,026
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveC E100 View Post

Everybody is entitled to their own opinion.

Sure.

Quote:

That's just my opinion but it is the only one that makes sense.

Makes sense to you. Lots of conspiracy theories make sense to some people. I'm sure the Unabomber's theories made sense to him. I know a guy who's convinced 9/11 was concocted by the Bush administration. Because his opinion makes sense to him.

But there's no evidence of a "Hollywood conspiracy." No paper trail, nothing. Just speculation. The fact that the MPAA has been going after file sharers for stealing movies makes them an easy target for attack. Like I said, people want to point to a "bad guy."

I believe in Occam's razor. DVD/HDD recorder sales were never strong. That's been documented. So it was a shaky market to begin with. The need for ATSC tuners would have added to their expense. Therefore, all the manufacturers except Funai (who optimistically thought they could take over what little market was left) dropped them.

Simple, no need for worthless conspiracy theories. There are better things in this world to be concerned with. Saves on tinfoil, too.

Don't believe everything on the Interwebz! A duck's quack DOES echo!
Tulpa is offline  
post #40 of 58 Old 03-12-2012, 12:01 AM
Advanced Member
 
dare2be's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: FL
Posts: 545
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelson View Post

I'll agree with you and add my view. It wasn't just the cable-DVR/TiVo devices, but what they signified -- the digital transition. The digital transition killed DVD recorders. The digital transition ushered in the era of HDTV and DVD recorders didn't keep pace. The market majority wants to record and watch later -- but not in SD. If they have paid the money for an HD flat-screen they want to watch HD, not regurgitated SD. HDTV made DVD recorders as obsolete as VCR's. DVD recorders put the nail in their own coffins by not adapting to at least allow HD recording/playback from the HDD. That and their lack of cable card support sealed their fate.

I will expand on your view by fusing the seemingly opposing views together. Yes, the digital transition DID kill the SD DVD recorder market for all the reasons you stated, yet the MPAA and content providers had a hand in killing the next logical progression (BRD / HD recorders) with their strong-arm copyright, technical and licensing requirements. It was not financially viable to produce, distribute and market newer recorder technologies in the USA, and without one of their biggest markets available, the economies of scale suffered as well in being able to produce new products for the rest of the globe as well.
dare2be is offline  
post #41 of 58 Old 03-12-2012, 12:18 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Tulpa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 10,026
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by dare2be View Post

I will expand on your view by fusing the seemingly opposing views together. Yes, the digital transition DID kill the SD DVD recorder market for all the reasons you stated, yet the MPAA and content providers had a hand in killing the next logical progression (BRD / HD recorders) with their strong-arm copyright, technical and licensing requirements. It was not financially viable to produce, distribute and market newer recorder technologies in the USA, and without one of their biggest markets available, the economies of scale suffered as well in being able to produce new products for the rest of the globe as well.

The DVD recorder market was destroyed well before Blu-ray/HD-DVD was even on the horizon. While the HD discs do have an insane amount of useless copy protection, the recorder market itself was already DOA, so even freely usable BD wouldn't be viable. American consumers were already set in DVRs being the HD technology.

Don't believe everything on the Interwebz! A duck's quack DOES echo!
Tulpa is offline  
post #42 of 58 Old 03-12-2012, 12:27 AM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Cyclone82's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Australia
Posts: 460
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 14
In Australia everyone calls them PVRs (Personal Video Recorders) instead of DVRs. They are a big thing at the moment. The thread has gone off topic a little but dont worry, i dont mind. I find this discussion very interesting!
Cyclone82 is offline  
post #43 of 58 Old 03-12-2012, 12:29 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Tulpa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 10,026
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 59
We sometimes call them PVRs here, but DVR is more common.

Don't believe everything on the Interwebz! A duck's quack DOES echo!
Tulpa is offline  
post #44 of 58 Old 03-12-2012, 06:53 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Kelson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Delaware - The First State (USA)
Posts: 10,413
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 485 Post(s)
Liked: 430
I see the term PVR being used more commonly in regards to media-PC software that provides that function.

- kelson h

The bitterness of poor quality lasts long after the sweetness of the low price is forgotten . . . life is too short to drink bad wine

Kelson is offline  
post #45 of 58 Old 03-12-2012, 07:03 AM
Advanced Member
 
dare2be's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: FL
Posts: 545
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulpa View Post

Motion Picture Association of America. It's a trade organization representing Hollywood studios. Some are convinced that they're behind the failure of DVD recorders. I personally think it's nonsense, but some people want a "bad guy" to blame. The MPAA has been behind some initiatives regarding copyright.

And some people want to marginalize others' opinions with "bad guy" and "tin foil" references when they disagree.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulpa View Post

What killed the DVD recorder in the USA was the proliferation of the cable PVR/TiVo-ish devices. People here want to record and watch shows later, but few want to keep them for posterity, and those who do just buy the commercial DVDs and call it a day.

But many of those commercial DVDs are never even produced, held up by copyright holders and music rights, usually split between multiple companies that will never come to an agreement. Don't get me started on the sham that is DRM, intellectual property and how it relates to corporate "personhood".
dare2be is offline  
post #46 of 58 Old 03-12-2012, 07:04 AM
Advanced Member
 
dare2be's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: FL
Posts: 545
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelson View Post

I see the term PVR being used more commonly in regards to media-PC software that provides that function.

The first time I heard the term PVR, I believe it was Dish Network using it to describe their early DVRs back in the early 2000s. I think it was their 501 model.
dare2be is offline  
post #47 of 58 Old 03-12-2012, 10:03 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Tulpa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 10,026
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by dare2be View Post

And some people want to marginalize others' opinions with "bad guy" and "tin foil" references when they disagree.

Most, if not all, of the time those others spout things with no substantiation and they deserve to be marginalized. I'll make tinfoil references to the guys who say 9/11 was a Bush plot and those who say the death of DVD recorders were a Hollywood plot. There is no smoking gun in either case and until there is, it's just the rantings of shack dwellers in Montana desperately wanting there to be an "evil Machiavellian force" behind it. Because accepting it is consumer whim is less exciting and there's less hope it'll be corrected (or they watch too much "24.") Unfortunately, consumer whim is what did in the DVD recorder.

Quote:


But many of those commercial DVDs are never even produced, held up by copyright holders and music rights, usually split between multiple companies that will never come to an agreement.

That's the way it goes sometimes. But I'm having a hard time thinking of a TV series that aired in the DVD recorder era that did not make it to a commercial DVD release, so your assertion of "many" I think is a bit extreme.

Don't believe everything on the Interwebz! A duck's quack DOES echo!
Tulpa is offline  
post #48 of 58 Old 03-12-2012, 10:37 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Kelson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Delaware - The First State (USA)
Posts: 10,413
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 485 Post(s)
Liked: 430
Quote:
Originally Posted by dare2be View Post

yet the MPAA and content providers had a hand in killing the next logical progression (BRD / HD recorders) with their strong-arm copyright, technical and licensing requirements.

I'm sure the content producers would like to eliminate recording, but despite what their efforts may or may not have been there are no laws in place to prohibit it. If that has been their focus, they have failed. For years the TiVo has enabled direct network transfer of any non-copy protected content -- direct digital transfers in original quality. There are currently more models of PC TV-tuner cards, USB TV-tuners/recording devices and network-based TV-tuners -- with and without cable cards -- than there ever were of DVD recorders in their golden age. All of these devices enable direct digital HD/5.1 recording and the subsequent ability to edit/burn or otherwise generate a personal recording archive -- I do this all the time. If the content producers were in any way effective this market would not exist, yet the number of products serving the HD recording market has been growing.

DVD Recorders in particular and optical disk recorders in general are obsolete. They are disappearing because there is no market for them even at the bottom end.

- kelson h

The bitterness of poor quality lasts long after the sweetness of the low price is forgotten . . . life is too short to drink bad wine

Kelson is offline  
post #49 of 58 Old 03-12-2012, 11:41 AM
Senior Member
 
rkg22's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Posts: 365
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveC E100 View Post

Mine all came from the Internet. I can't remember just how I learned about them. It might have been from browsing AVS before I registered?
11-03-03 E100 BUYDIG.com $814 + $20 S&H
8-04-04 E85 eCOST.com $470 + $7 S&H
4-07-05 E95 BUY.com $350 Free Shipping

I was a moderator on the Digital8 forum on Camcorderinfo.com starting about 1999 I think and these DVD Recorders seemed to be a natural compliment to the digital camcorders and their firewire ports.

I still have 3 Hi8 VCR's with PCM & HiFi stereo sound and probably 7 Super VHS VCR's and maybe 20 VHS VCR's? They all still work as far as I know. I got my VHS VCR's in the late 70's and 1st video camera about 1980 when they were first available to the general public. I remember my first video where I took one of my 2 Panasonic PV-1000 VCR's that weighed a ton and put it in a wheelbarrow and ran 200' of extension cords out to the edge of my pond and videoed my 2-1/2 acre back yard. It was probably late March and most of the snow had melted and the crows were making a lot of noise. That was thrilling to have color video with SOUND. Before that it was 8mm silent film. What a huge breakthrough that first video camera was.

Those PV-1000's and a year later PV-1100 all came from LaBelles in Roseville. VHS video tapes were about $30 each so I was careful about using those expensive tapes. In todays $ that would probably be about $60 for one T-120 tape. My first battery powered Panasonic VCR came about 1981 from Sound Of Music in Roseville. Shortly after that they changed their name to Best Buy. It's hard to believe all the changes that have happened in the last 35 years.

Dave

hi dave....

back in the day, i wanted badly to pick up on a hi-8 deck, but for some reason never did... my 1st deck ( die-hard that i am ) was an Aiwa AV-70 beta machine ( i figured quality would prevail in the market but i was wrong ).
that one ultimately lost its head stack ( many years later ) and i didn't want to chase the high cost head stack on the dying market... ( sigh.. i do miss that machine )...

on the DVD recorder market, i just have one thing to toss in for 2 cents...

regardless of the reasons already described, i think lots of folks ( as i did and still do ) used their tape machines for time-slipping. it was most convenient to watch stuff when i wanted to rather than adhere to the programming schedules... i feel that at least a major portion of that market was for time-slippers... to that end, i really feel that the various DVR manufacturers simply dropped the ball and didn't market the things properly, and those time-slippers never understood well enough that these DVRs were their down-home VCR replacements... seems they ( at least i ) never saw or heard much in the way of advertising about these boxes... indeed, i think i only discovered them by chance in a store... this, coupled with the more highly advertised boxes like TiVos and their counterparts, re-directed the consumers, causing the DVD ( with HDD ) recorder market to fall away...

i have an electronics buddy who, up until about a month ago, didn't even know these ' non-subscription ' type boxes even existed...

ok, sorry for dragging the off-topic and i'll post no more comment on it...
in any case, it's a sad thing....

rgds,
ron g
rkg22 is offline  
post #50 of 58 Old 03-13-2012, 02:55 PM
Advanced Member
 
dare2be's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: FL
Posts: 545
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulpa View Post

Most, if not all, of the time those others spout things with no substantiation and they deserve to be marginalized.

Because accepting it is consumer whim is less exciting and there's less hope it'll be corrected (or they watch too much "24.") Unfortunately, consumer whim is what did in the DVD recorder.

But my point is that consumer whim is and can be driven by outside industry forces...in the case of analog SD DVD recorders, as Kelson pointed out, the consumer whim was shifted with the digital transition. However, in the case of new product development, there is a chicken-or-the-egg situation here - is consumer whim driving product development and availability, or are industry constraints and marketing driving consumer whim? Did consumer whim initiate the analog sunset, 3D technology on most new TVs, HDCP, cable companies encrypting all of their QAM transmissions, not just "premium" content, etc?

I envision a day when all streamed, transmitted or broadcast content is HDCP encrypted, ICT or CCI flagged, effectively wiping out "fair use" without a single law being enacted. You may wrap tin foil on that statement and call it unsubstantiated, but the constant industry push for DRM laws, SOPA/PIPA, HDCP, closing the analog hole (removal of HD component outputs from Blu-Ray players - what could be next?), etc is my evidence. I suspect that climate is also partially responsible for consumer electronics companies being skittish about extending or making new product lines available, seeing the market as a land mine of shifting demands and increasing pressure from content providers. Without consumer awareness and resistance (like what happened with SOPA/PIPA), we are all just lambs being led to the digital slaughter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulpa View Post

That's the way it goes sometimes. But I'm having a hard time thinking of a TV series that aired in the DVD recorder era that did not make it to a commercial DVD release, so your assertion of "many" I think is a bit extreme.

Not sure if you mean "aired in the DVD recorder era" only applies to first-run airing, but shows like "Cold Case" (music rights making it cost prohibitive), "Wonder Years" (music rights again, the most requested show not yet released), "Now and Again (1999)", "China Beach", "Picket Fences" (again, music rights cost too high), and then even older classics like "Batman" and "Mighty Mouse", both I believe due to copyrights being split between companies due to corporate splits/buyouts.
dare2be is offline  
post #51 of 58 Old 03-13-2012, 03:21 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Tulpa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 10,026
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by dare2be View Post

But my point is that consumer whim is and can be driven by outside industry forces...in the case of analog SD DVD recorders, as Kelson pointed out, the consumer whim was shifted with the digital transition.

DVD recorder sales were tanking way before the ATSC transition came about, or was even on people's minds. The digital transition was the straw that broke the camel's back and finally did it in, but it was a sick camel before. Had it been stronger, manufacturers would have put the new tuners in no problem, but they had little interest in putting a bandaid on an ailing machine.

Consumers who ventured into the recorder realm either understood what these machines were and how to use them (that's us) and then there was the vast majority, who thought they were getting a VCR replacement ("Just records to a disc instead of a tape, right?) and found that it wasn't so easy ("finalizing discs? Hard drive? TVGOS-whatsit? Guh?) and returned the machine for a refund. Which made the damn things nigh-on unprofitable. And then the cable companies saw opportunity and offered their DVRs, and what do you know? They sold like Jessica Alba on the Maxim cover. Consumer whim.

Quote:


Without consumer awareness and resistance (like what happened with SOPA/PIPA), we are all just lambs being led to the digital slaughter.

Oh, I don't doubt that the industry has been pushing for greater DRM and such (the piracy has pretty much forced them.)

My point is that there is no shadow government/backroom shenanigans or any of the ludicrous Machiavellian conspiracies flying about. It's content owners (Hollywood studios) duking it out with CE makers (Panasonic, et. al) over this stuff, with guys like Google (who are becoming a huge political force, btw) wanting to toss their hat in the ring and force their view of what should be done (the anti-SOPA/PIPA movement was almost all Google's doing. It certainly wasn't a grassroots people's movement.) It's a huge mess, and sometimes it's companies that straddle the fence (Sony is both a CE manufacturer and the owner of a major Hollywood studio.)

It's all this nonsense about conspiracies and united industries against the little guy BS that sticks in my craw and causes people to vastly misconstrue the situation and ignore what is REALLY going on. We're not lambs being led to slaughter, more a bunch of hamsters in the middle of an elephant fight.

Quote:


Not sure if you mean "aired in the DVD recorder era" only applies to first-run airing, but shows like "Cold Case" (music rights making it cost prohibitive), "Wonder Years" (music rights again, the most requested show not yet released), "Now and Again (1999)", "China Beach", "Picket Fences" (again, music rights cost too high), and then even older classics like "Batman" and "Mighty Mouse", both I believe due to copyrights being split between companies due to corporate splits/buyouts.

I meant aired when DVD recording would have taken place. And yes, music rights are the issue with those shows. But again, that's not a corporate conspiracy, that's a bunch of rights owners bickering over money. No tinfoil needed.

And there's not much we can do about it without just tossing out copyright all together. It's the way it goes. Just wait for it to be settled or move on.

Don't believe everything on the Interwebz! A duck's quack DOES echo!
Tulpa is offline  
post #52 of 58 Old 03-14-2012, 05:38 AM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Cyclone82's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Australia
Posts: 460
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 14
Is this the part number for the good Panasonic DVD RAM discs? (discussed several posts back)

LM-AF120LU5

I can find these discs listed as 120mins so would these be the normal 4.7 GB discs? It seems RAM discs are listed by minutes and not GB's?

Just need to make sure i am buying the right ones. And i guess it does not matter if i get data or video ones? Is there a way to tell teh difference?

Is it these ones that are recommended?

Cyclone82 is offline  
post #53 of 58 Old 03-14-2012, 05:56 AM
AVS Special Member
 
jjeff's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Minneapolis MN
Posts: 9,912
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 154 Post(s)
Liked: 93
Those look like the ones I use for my Panasonic DVDRs. And note even though they list 120 minutes thats just in SP, like any other DVD you can get less or more depending on the speed you use. Modern Panasonics can fit between 1 and 8hrs/DVD or ~4400 MBs.
If your discs are already formatted for Video you need to do nothing, if they are Data discs they need to be formatted once(takes a couple seconds and you will be prompted when you first insert the disc) and you'll be good to go from then on.
jjeff is offline  
post #54 of 58 Old 03-14-2012, 01:17 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Church AV Guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: High Desert, California
Posts: 4,621
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 51 Post(s)
Liked: 58
Quote:


Just need to make sure I am buying the right ones. And I guess it does not matter if I get data or video ones? Is there a way to tell the difference?

I do believe that the ones preformatted fof video use have a different cardboard sleeve than the ones formatted for data use. I have found the one preformatted for data to be cheaper, BUT there is absolutely no difference between the two except for the formatting. When you put a dta formatted -RAM disk into your video recorder, it asks if you want to format the disk, and warns that all current contents will be erased. You say yes to the questions, and then you're good to use the disk. It takes on the order of a minute or two, max.

Luke

Evil is charming and beautiful. It makes you doubt yourself. It asks for one small compromise after another until it whittles you down, and it functions best when no one believes in it.-JOA
Church AV Guy is offline  
post #55 of 58 Old 03-14-2012, 03:34 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Cyclone82's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Australia
Posts: 460
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 14
Ok thanks. I have also seen those in a green box but the ones shown above are what i have seen most. Have only had a little fiddle with my current EZ48 recorder with just some verbatim discs i had here and have not got fully set up for recording yet. Just been using the VCR side mainly. Still waiting on my full blown XW480 to arrive.

Good news is that through reading on here last night i found my lap top drive is RAM -RW writable and readable so thats gonna be good however i need to find a good lens cleaner that works as it currently wont write discs or format discs. Otherwise if it wont work anymore i need to find a new drive somehow so maybe one of the guys in the PC section will be able to help there.
Cyclone82 is offline  
post #56 of 58 Old 03-15-2012, 07:21 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Kelson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Delaware - The First State (USA)
Posts: 10,413
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 485 Post(s)
Liked: 430
RAM disks have not been discussed for a while since the old days when they were standard fare for Panasonic recorders. The common practice with RAM disks is to wash them before use the first time. This is done with tepid water and liquid dish soap on a soft washcloth, followed by drying with a soft bath towel.

Don't ask why. No one has ever determined the real reason. But years ago I noticed that otherwise good RAM disks would occasionally start to flake out after a number of records and become error prone. Although I could never see or feel anything on the surface (like dirt, fingerprints or oils), I found that by washing the disk it returned to perfect service and never had problems again. Others found that washing their problem RAMS also fixed them so it became common practice to wash them before first use and to recommend to anyone just getting into RAMS or having problems with a RAM to wash it before tossing it.

- kelson h

The bitterness of poor quality lasts long after the sweetness of the low price is forgotten . . . life is too short to drink bad wine

Kelson is offline  
post #57 of 58 Old 03-15-2012, 10:29 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Church AV Guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: High Desert, California
Posts: 4,621
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 51 Post(s)
Liked: 58
Quote:


But years ago I noticed that otherwise good RAM disks would occasionally start to flake out after a number of records and become error prone. Although I could never see or feel anything on the surface (like dirt, fingerprints or oils), I found that by washing the disk it returned to perfect service and never had problems again.

I have been using mine regurlay fomany years. I do occasionally have to give them a wash. I wish the copies would fail when the disks start to get errors. It's irritating when you copy the contents from a -RAM to the HDD, then edit or collect episodes and attempt to make a _R from the content, and have the -R burn fail! I can almost always find a corrupted bad spot in the file. The bad spot was never on the original recording on my HDD, but was introduced by one of the -RAM disk copies. Still, it's rare, and they are a really good temporary storage medium.

Luke

Evil is charming and beautiful. It makes you doubt yourself. It asks for one small compromise after another until it whittles you down, and it functions best when no one believes in it.-JOA
Church AV Guy is offline  
post #58 of 58 Old 03-16-2012, 02:26 AM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Cyclone82's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Australia
Posts: 460
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 14
Yeah i had a DVD that i could not get to play once. It looked pretty much fine but i thought maybe i should wash it. All i did was run it under cold water from a tap, lightly patted it dry with a towel and then it worked again.
Cyclone82 is offline  
Reply DVD Recorders (Standard Def)

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off