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post #31 of 45 Old 03-26-2012, 05:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyclone82 View Post

There seems to be some attractive sales advertising for the TY's like 'OEM' kinda indicating they are what commercial discs are made from.

Careful what you read. Commercial discs are pressed and don't use any kind of dye. There is a lot of misinformation out there.

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Originally Posted by dare2be View Post

I'm confused where you got this information. All the research I've done is that there were 2 groups of manufacturers, one formed in 1995 and the other formed in 1997.

I'm going to let Luke speak for himself but yes, money had a lot to do with it. Pride as well. For instance Sony hates every format JVC and Panasonic invent and vice-versa. Not just the consumer VHS/Beta war but Sony and Panasonic are the biggest broadcast and production format rivals and to this day, there are very few Sony broadcast and pro production formats that Panasonic will use and there are very few Panasonic broadcast and pro production formats that Sony will use. Make not none with the exception of a few formats they co-invented.

Back to consumer formats, take Panasonic's DVD-RAM format. Sony is capable of making burners that will write/read RAM as seen in the PIO/Sony recorders but the Sony branded deck's firmware does not allow to write DVD-RAM, (it will read DVD-RAM.) Instead the Sony deck has that much memory space in the firmware for other things. The only reason Sony did this is so they don't have to use a Panasonic format (the licensing fee can't be that high but the pride is. Other manufactures decision is strictly money related.
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post #32 of 45 Old 04-09-2012, 07:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Super Eye View Post

Careful what you read. Commercial discs are pressed and don't use any kind of dye. There is a lot of misinformation out there.

Commercial pressed discs use a die.
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post #33 of 45 Old 02-02-2016, 12:02 PM
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Gold archival dvd's

Has anyone seen gold archival dvd's in "+R" (plus R)? For many reasons I prefer plus R to dash R. There doesn't seem to be any out there. Verbatim does not seem to make them.
Does anyone know why? mes.
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post #34 of 45 Old 02-02-2016, 12:04 PM
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http://www.mediasupply.coCloseout! Mitsui/MAM-A 4.7GB 8x Gold Archive DVD+R
Quantity: 50





1




Code: MAM83440
Sale Price: $120.90

m/mam83440.html

MickinCT

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post #35 of 45 Old 02-08-2016, 02:12 PM
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Wow! pricey. I wonder if it is worth the extra $$? I have heard some say plain old verbatim azo's are suppose to last 50 + years.
For realy looongg term storage, I wonder if M- disks that you burn with a blu ray burner would be a better choice for family archives to pass down to next gen.? Thanks.
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post #36 of 45 Old Yesterday, 09:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pygar77 View Post
Wow! pricey. I wonder if it is worth the extra $$? I have heard some say plain old verbatim azo's are suppose to last 50 + years.
For realy looongg term storage, I wonder if M- disks that you burn with a blu ray burner would be a better choice for family archives to pass down to next gen.? Thanks.
M-Disc is your best bet, slated to last 1000 years.

Of course, finding a working DVD or BR player that can play that media that far in the future would be a task.


That which may be known of God is evident within man, for God has shown it to them, so that they are without excuse. (Romans 1:19-20)
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post #37 of 45 Old Yesterday, 03:59 PM
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Important videos/data should be backed up to more than one media: multiple hard drives + optical discs, even tape drives. Accelerated aging tests are useful up to a point, but only offer a prediction. The real world is very different, and as tomwil said you're more likely to have trouble finding a good player/drive 20 years from now than anything else. The best strategy is to make duplicate archives to new formats every few years.

Gold discs cost a fortune because of the gold content, which allegedly resists decomposition better than the cheap reflective layer in standard discs. But the gold layer is not as reflective as standard aluminum, causing reading problems with some drives. So the alleged durability advantage is cancelled out by the significant possibility of reading errors years in the future. And gold dvds aren't made any better than "normal" dvds in other respects: they're equally susceptible to dye layer decomposition (esp if air gets into any hairline cracks that develop between the two plastic halves of the disc).

If you specifically need video DVDs, the very stable AZO dyes used in premium Verbatim discs offer 90% of the theoretical durability promoted by gold. If you don't particularly require a video DVD compatible with (rapidly-obsoleting) hardware DVD players, you might consider going with Blu Ray instead for long term video and high-capacity data storage. Standard BD-R technology is extremely similar to the overhyped M-disc, but less expensive per GB. For all practical purposes, you could say M-disc is simply BD-R tech retro-fitted to the smaller-capacity blank DVD format. I don't see the point in using such a Frankenstein non-standard drive/blank DVD system when you could easily choose the standard, much higher capacity BD-R. The only "gotcha" with BD-R is being careful not to buy the less-durable alternative "LTH" media, which is dye-based like recordable CD / DVD and has the same drawbacks. Standard "HTL" BD-R is the version akin to M-disc.

Some of us have been in this game long enough to experience our own "aging tests" - and have been surprised by some of the results. I have a huge number of various no-name CD-R discs made 14 years ago that are still perfectly fine, and quite a few ten-year-old garbage-brand dual-layer DVD-Rs that still play great (despite expectations they would rot within the first month). Even a few La Cie USB portable hard drives I bought in 2001 still read perfectly. OTOH, I've experienced read failures with some expensive high-end media in much shorter amounts of time. Ya never know, none of us knows.
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post #38 of 45 Old Yesterday, 08:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CitiBear View Post
Some of us have been in this game long enough to experience our own "aging tests" - and have been surprised by some of the results. I have a huge number of various no-name CD-R discs made 14 years ago that are still perfectly fine, and quite a few ten-year-old garbage-brand dual-layer DVD-Rs that still play great (despite expectations they would rot within the first month).
LOL, I even have a couple Memorex DVD-R that I burned in 2004 that are still good.

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The bitterness of poor quality lasts long after the sweetness of the low price is forgotten . . . life is too short to drink bad wine

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post #39 of 45 Old Today, 07:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pygar77 View Post
Wow! pricey. I wonder if it is worth the extra $$? I have heard some say plain old verbatim azo's are suppose to last 50 + years.
For realy looongg term storage, I wonder if M- disks that you burn with a blu ray burner would be a better choice for family archives to pass down to next gen.? Thanks.
50 yrs??...BAH HUMBUG!!...the idea that DVD discs had a huge longevity advantage over tape was the biggest lie ever foisted on the recording public...some discs don't last for 50 weeks.Doesn't matter the brand,be it TY TY/JVC or Verbatim.My oldest discs,Sony -R/W's from 2006,still play well but i don't believe they'll last anywhere near 50 yrs.
If i could i would go back to VCR's and VHS tape...poorer PQ for sure,but tape lasts a lot longer than any DVD disc i ever owned or ever will own.
If D-VHS weren't so expensive i might consider going that route.BD would be cool but requires too much tekkie knowledge for me...seems so damn difficult to do.I don't know how to use those computer BD burning software programs,or how to connect a BD burner to my laptop.It's all Greek to me.
When i transferred my tapes to DVD disc,the tapes were approaching 30 yrs.old and still played well.I don't expect my discs will last anywhere near that long.Sometimes i think i did everything backwards...i should have been transfering the videos on disc to tape because tape lasts longer and a few of the discs i used to transfer videos to from tape,have already died,and now i don't have those videos anymore.I shoulda kept all those tapes.
I've done everything i know to do to preserve my discs,but they just don't have the staying power of tape.
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post #40 of 45 Old Today, 09:13 AM
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Originally Posted by greaser View Post
I've done everything i know to do to preserve my discs,but they just don't have the staying power of tape.
It is not that tape lasts longer. It is that analog recordings can degrade to the point of being on their death-beds and yet you will still be able to see something upon playback which gives the illusion that they last longer. A physical disk may not last forever (although with proper storage and handling even the junk media of 12 yr ago seems to stand up incredibly well), but digital data can and does since it is so easily replicated -- unlike analog data. If family DVD's are so precious and you want to pass them down to relatives, why wait. DVD's are easy to replicate and distribute to the family now which increases the number of copies in the wild. If you can't figure out how to run a PC-based duplication program, buy an inexpensive DVD duplicator which operates with the push of a button. Backup HDD's with large storage have gotten incredibly cheap -- I was in Costco last week and they had a 2-pack of 2TB backup HDD's for $90. That's enough to store over 400 DVD-R's on each drive. DVD's are encoded in a very inefficient codec (MPEG-2). If you have a limited number of super-precious DVD's one could use a modern codec (H.264 or H.265) to re-code them and shrink the physical files substantially, then upload them to the cloud where they will live forever.

The move from analog to digital has tremendous significance for long-term survival of the data. One just needs to learn the tools to do so.

- kelson h

The bitterness of poor quality lasts long after the sweetness of the low price is forgotten . . . life is too short to drink bad wine

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post #41 of 45 Old Today, 10:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelson View Post
It is not that tape lasts longer. It is that analog recordings can degrade to the point of being on their death-beds and yet you will still be able to see something upon playback which gives the illusion that they last longer. A physical disk may not last forever (although with proper storage and handling even the junk media of 12 yr ago seems to stand up incredibly well), but digital data can and does since it is so easily replicated -- unlike analog data. If family DVD's are so precious and you want to pass them down to relatives, why wait. DVD's are easy to replicate and distribute to the family now which increases the number of copies in the wild. If you can't figure out how to run a PC-based duplication program, buy an inexpensive DVD duplicator which operates with the push of a button. Backup HDD's with large storage have gotten incredibly cheap -- I was in Costco last week and they had a 2-pack of 2TB backup HDD's for $90. That's enough to store over 400 DVD-R's on each drive. DVD's are encoded in a very inefficient codec (MPEG-2). If you have a limited number of super-precious DVD's one could use a modern codec (H.264 or H.265) to re-code them and shrink the physical files substantially, then upload them to the cloud where they will live forever.

The move from analog to digital has tremendous significance for long-term survival of the data. One just needs to learn the tools to do so.
Sometimes it's just easier to be grumpy and embrace the past than it is to actually learn new things. Even if the new things are 10-15 years old already

It's like he is saying: "watching black and white TV in the 60's was better than today's HDTV, because there was never any dropouts and the low quality of the picture really hid the snow and ghosting"

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post #42 of 45 Old Today, 12:50 PM
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Originally Posted by greaser View Post
50 yrs??...BAH HUMBUG!!...the idea that DVD discs had a huge longevity advantage over tape was the biggest lie ever foisted on the recording public...some discs don't last for 50 weeks.Doesn't matter the brand,be it TY TY/JVC or Verbatim.My oldest discs,Sony -R/W's from 2006,still play well but i don't believe they'll last anywhere near 50 yrs.
If i could i would go back to VCR's and VHS tape...poorer PQ for sure,but tape lasts a lot longer than any DVD disc i ever owned or ever will own.
If D-VHS weren't so expensive i might consider going that route.BD would be cool but requires too much tekkie knowledge for me...seems so damn difficult to do.I don't know how to use those computer BD burning software programs,or how to connect a BD burner to my laptop.It's all Greek to me.
When i transferred my tapes to DVD disc,the tapes were approaching 30 yrs.old and still played well.I don't expect my discs will last anywhere near that long.Sometimes i think i did everything backwards...i should have been transfering the videos on disc to tape because tape lasts longer and a few of the discs i used to transfer videos to from tape,have already died,and now i don't have those videos anymore.I shoulda kept all those tapes.
I've done everything i know to do to preserve my discs,but they just don't have the staying power of tape.
Maybe we can all rent space in the deep salt mines........ where all the Johnny Carson tapes are stored.

MickinCT
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post #43 of 45 Old Today, 01:36 PM
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As I noted above, my DVD-R disks I burned in 2004 are still good and can be ripped to my server without issue. What I forgot to add was that, after 12yr I have essentially no interest in watching any of it. We're being bombarded daily with an unprecedented amount of new content -- in HD. What I can't get OTA, I get either streaming or on disk.
Who has time to watch the old stuff.

I just keep the old DVD-R disks around to I can test them every so often and make posts like this.

- kelson h

The bitterness of poor quality lasts long after the sweetness of the low price is forgotten . . . life is too short to drink bad wine

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post #44 of 45 Old Today, 02:24 PM
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As I noted above, my DVD-R disks I burned in 2004 are still good and can be ripped to my server without issue. What I forgot to add was that, after 12yr I have essentially no interest in watching any of it. We're being bombarded daily with an unprecedented amount of new content -- in HD. What I can't get OTA, I get either streaming or on disk.
Who has time to watch the old stuff.

I just keep the old DVD-R disks around to I can test them every so often and make posts like this.
The point of my post is to say that DVD discs don't have the longevity of VHS tape according to my own experience and eyes,not whether sliding back to VCR's is a desirable way to go,which is what some *deep thinkers* 'round here seem to think it is,which it is not.
I'm just airing my frustration with the relatively short life span of many discs compared to tape that i have been experiencing.
As i said earlier,my oldest Sony DVD-R/W discs are ~10 yrs.old and still play well.

I've had a long time suspicion that the rotten climate i live in may have a lot to do with the short lifespan of my discs,but i can't prove it.
I live in SW.Florida which is hot most of the year,very humid and oppressive,and has more fungus,mildew and molds of all sorts than you would care to know about.Molds mildew and fungus's grow happily 'round here...all over everything.No place and nothing is immune from the mold.
Most of the discs that go bad develop white spots and blotches all over the up-side of the disc which eventually seem to bleed over to the recorded side,but most discs go bad before the bleeding over has occurred.

The VHS tapes i brought from Pa.,which were in near pristine condition when i brought them here,showed the damage this POS climate does to everything it touches after probably 2-3 yrs.Mold and teensy-weensy little mushrooms began to grow on the sides of the tapes.
I used to periodically run them through a winder/rewinder to get rid of the excess mold/mushrooms,which helped keep the tapes playing for about another 10 yrs or so.This type of damage would probably never have occurred in a colder climate like they have in Pa.
Before i moved to FL. i lived near Philly Pa...for ~15 yrs.my tapes were,and stayed in,near perfect condition,but after moving to this crappy climate the tapes began to show problems.But they still played on...and on...and on...and...till i transferred the videos to disc and threw the tapes away.
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post #45 of 45 Old Today, 03:49 PM
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I live in SW.Florida which is hot most of the year,very humid and oppressive,and has more fungus,mildew and molds of all sorts than you would care to know about.Molds mildew and fungus's grow happily 'round here...all over everything.No place and nothing is immune from the mold.
Most of the discs that go bad develop white spots and blotches all over the up-side of the disc which eventually seem to bleed over to the recorded side,but most discs go bad before the bleeding over has occurred.

The VHS tapes i brought from Pa.,which were in near pristine condition when i brought them here,showed the damage this POS climate does to everything it touches after probably 2-3 yrs.Mold and teensy-weensy little mushrooms began to grow on the sides of the tapes.
LOL, that's just gross, on so many levels. I've been in The Keys in the summer time so I appreciate the humidity.

I've never seen spots and blotches develop on any of my disks.

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The bitterness of poor quality lasts long after the sweetness of the low price is forgotten . . . life is too short to drink bad wine

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