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post #1 of 32 Old 03-15-2012, 04:12 AM - Thread Starter
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I need some help trying to work out what brand/type DVDs would be the best to use with the following Panasonics. DMR-EZ48V, DMR-EH69 and DMR-XW480

I am finding all the different types very confusing. –RW, +RW, -R, +R etc. I would also like to be able to use the same discs in my computer which can pretty much play/write most types anyway.

I have been reading the manuals and have a rough idea of what discs each machine can use, but perhaps you guys who have been using these for years can get me up to speed quickly with what are most compatible/useable with Panasonics.

Naturally my instincts tell me to get Verbatim. I don’t know why, perhaps I keep hearing it all the time, but I am not necessarily settled on that because last time I thought something was very good and was the ‘brand’ to use everyone on another forum was advising against it. What would be the top few most respected and reliable brands of discs? i know when i used to do CD-R recording 10 or more years ago i used to use TDK as they were just easy to get. Actually later on i started using Verbatim CDRs too.

As I understand it ‘R’ is record once and ‘RW’ are re-recordable. I am not 100% sure on the -/+ designation but I think it may mean one can be recorded on in one session and not add more latter but on the other you can add more later? I was reading in one of my manuals that one type supports 16:9 and one only 4:3.

Are the R type more safer for long term storage/archival than RW? If so meaning type R are what I should use for making copies/backups?

Here is a bit I a plan of what I need want.

I need both 4.7 and 8.5GB for direct copies/back ups/archival (mostly by using my computer if they are commerical discs with menus). Would –R or +R be best? Final decision will be based on what the recorders can accept but both types would be fine I think, at least on the HDD pannys

And I guess I would also need some 4.7 and 8.5GB discs that I can re-record over a few times. I would not be planning to archive stuff on these sorts of discs. My plan would be to use RWs and RAMs to offload stuff off the HDD’s and in the case of the EZ48V, record direct to disc and use like VHS (keeping in mind i dont want to wear out the EZ48 either )


So I guess the decision wont be too hard but I just need to know the deal with +/- designation and what is more reliable/useful.

My manual for EZ48V says to record 16:9 onto a 8.5GB DL disc it needs to be a DVD-R and not +R. From what I have seen –R are not as common in 8.5 GB so would I be ok to use those and then I could use a PC to transfer them to +RW if needed? It’s a pain that 8.5 RW are not supported in any Panasonics that I will have. I am beginning to think the only way i would probably use 8.5GB disc on the EZ48 is if i was doing a once only recording from an external VCR or DVD player. Its probably not the ideal machine to be recording everyday TV from onto 8.5GB discs.

I guess that makes it easy as I don’t need to buy 8.5 RW discs then. I was thinking because –R 8.5 Verbatims are not as available by the looks of it, I could buy bulk –R 8.5 discs in a cheaper brand to get stuff off the recorders and then transfer them to better quality +R 8.5 discs on PC.

Just need a few suggestions/recommedations so then I know what to buy then I will buy in bulk to set me up for a few years.

Thanks
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post #2 of 32 Old 03-15-2012, 05:51 AM
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I write from some experience. I'm a heavy user of blank DVD media with more than forty Panasonic and Funai-manufactured recorders, primarily Magnavox and Philips. My home-recorded DVD archive has more than 11,500 DVDs.

Since all my recording with stand-alone recorders is archival I do not use RW discs.

Since quality recording and laser assembly longevity is important for me, I use 8x DVDs with the proprietery DVD Drives found in stand-alone recorders. 16x media is more demanding upon laser assemblies.

Power users report that Panasonic recorders prefer DVD-R media. My Funai-manufactured recorders also perform well with DVD-R media. I've settled upon the DVD-R media format.

Years ago there were several name brand DVDs of good quality. Most of those brands now contract out their production to a few producers of lesser quality media.

Verbatim's reputation was built on standard AZO and Professional grade DataRightPlus series DVDs produced with the MCC designation (Mitsubishi Chemical Corporation). Beginning with Verbatim's introduction of the retail store "Life Series," production has been contracted out to China Magnetics Corporation, a high volume producer of mediocre media (often referred to as "landfill grade" in these pages). Many brands are actually produced by CMC, including TDK, Imation, Memorex, HP, Magnavox, Philips, to name just a few. It's best to avoid discs with the CMC designation.

Beginning in 2008 I settled upon Taiyo Yuden 8x Premium Line DVD-R for use in all my stand alone recorders. Since then Taiyo Yuden bought out JVC's Optical Media Division. Lately Taiyo Yuden DVDs are sold under the JVC/Taiyo Yuden branding.

I also keep on hand 16x DVD-R media for computer or duplicator use. I do not allow 16x media anywhere near my stand-alone recorders.

The first photo shows the mediocre Verbatim "Life Series" (CMC) 16x DVD-R packaging at the left, the good quality Verbatim "AZO" retail series (MCC) 16x DVD-R packaging in the middle and JVC/Taiyo Yuden Premium Line (TYG02) 8x DVD-R packaging at the right. The JVC/TY Premium Line also may be ordered in shrink wrap packaging shown in the second photo. The third photo shows original and current TY packaging.
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post #3 of 32 Old 03-15-2012, 06:51 AM
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I've used both Verbatim and Taiyo Yuden (now using the JVC name), and now use the latter exclusively.

The number of problems I've had, after so many recordings, has gone down to about zero percent.
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post #4 of 32 Old 03-15-2012, 10:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyclone82 View Post

I need some help trying to work out what brand/type DVDs would be the best to use with the following Panasonics. DMR-EZ48V, DMR-EH69 and DMR-XW480

As I understand it ‘R’ is record once and ‘RW’ are re-recordable. I am not 100% sure on the -/+ designation

Are the R type more safer for long term storage/archival than RW?

I need both 4.7 and 8.5GB for direct copies/back ups/archival (mostly by using my computer if they are commerical discs with menus). Would –R or +R be best?

And I guess I would also need some 4.7 and 8.5GB discs that I can re-record over a few times.

My manual for EZ48V says to record 16:9 onto a 8.5GB DL disc it needs to be a DVD-R and not +R.

Thanks

First, let me just say that the difference between the -R and +R designations is all about money. The DVD consortium came up with the -R "read that as DASH R, NOT MINUS R!" format. Some European manufacturers didn't want to pay the licensing fees for the -R format, so they came up with a competing format that they called +R. It IS different, and in some theoretical ways, better, but in practice, they are functionally about the same, just a little different under the hood.

What my panasonic recorders like are the -R disks, and the ones that have worked the best for me over the seven years I have owned DVD recorders have been Taiyo Yuden (now JVC/Taiyo Yuden) premium line, 8X blank media. I also recommend using the T-Y -R DL media, BUT, it's appallingly expensive, and insanely hard to find. I can only get them from a UK vendor, so what I use for my DL requirements is Verbatim +R DL blank media. As far as RW is concerned, I have never purchased or used one. When I need such media, I use a -RAM disk. I am not aware of any -RAM disk that is dual layer, just dual sidded. Since you have to physically turn the disk over to use the other side, it has no advantage, in my mind, over two single sidded disks.

The rewritable disks are a lot more costly than the -R blanks, so using them for archival purposes is not normally done unless you are made of $.

There are NO DVD recorders that actually record a 16:9 video stream. NONE! They are all limited to 4:3, according to the original DVD specifications. However, what ANY of them will do, is reocord a 16:9 video stream that has been anamorphically squeezed into a 4:3 frame. Additionally, if that video stream has the WS (wide screen) bit set, then some machines, using some (supported media) will pass that flag along to the finished DVD. This flag will tell whatever DVD player you put that disk into to letterbox the video stream if the television type selected has a 4:3 aspect ratio. It's all about the flag, NOT AT ALL about the content. Your machine will record 16:9 matherial to a +R just fine, but it won't be able to set the WS flag. Since all of my televisions are 16:9, this is just not a concern to me in the least.

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Evil is charming and beautiful. It makes you doubt yourself. It asks for one small compromise after another until it whittles you down, and it functions best when no one believes in it.-JOA
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post #5 of 32 Old 03-15-2012, 03:50 PM
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Here is my opinion on the -R +R deal.
The licensing fees deals that Luke mentions are true. But in my previous extensive research I have found that since the +R format was re-designed well after -R came out, the technical designers of +R found some flaws of the -R format and came out with a better file-structure system and more importantly, better error control for the newer +R format. All that said - I still use -R exclusively for archiving because my RDR-HX780 recorder and my XVN44SL player are both supposedly optimized for dash r.

I don't really use RW formats in my stand-alone but I do use -RW a few times a week in my PC. I don't really care about archival longevity regarding RW since I only use them for temporary burns, 6-weeks most before deletion. So I use cheap RW media and don't really care how long my PC diode will last since I can easily replace a PC burner for under $20 in under 20 minutes. That said my current LG PC burner must of recorded hundreds of RWs and hundreds or Rs and is still going strong.

Here is my opinion on the 8x vs. 16x deal.
Stating that 16x media is hard on one's laser diode is complete hogwash IMO. This is one of those silly rumors without any real clarification to back it up. Like another past silly rumor stating that using good grade VHS tapes to record a SVHS signal will prematurely destroy your video heads and the recording. HOGWASH! I did that for over a decade and my VCR heads are as good as new, so are my SVHS recordings on VHS tapes. What could prematurely destroy video heads and the recording is BAD, CHEAP videotape. Same deal with DVD. What is hard on a laser diode is using BAD MEDIA regardless of burn speeds. Good 16x media like TY and Verbatim AZO will not prematurely burn out your laser diode nor will 16x media prematurely get errors in the burn. 16x media is designed to drop-down on burn speed in slower recorders. This is documented on the TY site as well as the verbatim site. This is documented in my stand-alone recorder manual. Good 16x media burning at 6x speed does not take much more (if any more) laser power than burning 8x media at 6x burn speed. No one has come out with any evidence proving me wrong unless you count one old outdated TY marketing piece that had an error in it and has since been pulled from their circulation and corrected with the proper specs - no longer claim that burning 16x disc at a 8x speed takes more laser power. Again, the old literature has been pulled from circulation and corrected and now corresponds with most other literature on the net that claims it is the burn speed used and not the disc's max rated speed that determines laser power usage.

I use 16x verbatim azo discs exclusively in my stand-alone and have no laser problems or burn problems. I have nothing against 8x media except the fact that it's a big hassle for me to track em down. I can walk half a block and purchase 16x azo discs with a full return policy. There has been very few reports of bad 16x azo discs, in fact lately at this very forum I'm hearing more reports of bad 8x TY discs since JVC took over.

Just one more note - IMO most disc slippage is caused by a dirty spindle, not by low laser power - most I said not all. Note, TY discs tend to be a bit sticky to prevent slippage - I'm not convinced that this is a good thing for the spindle, especially if putting other discs in the same spindle.
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post #6 of 32 Old 03-15-2012, 04:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Super Eye View Post

Here is my opinion on the -R +R deal.
The licensing fees deals that Luke mentions are true. But in my previous extensive research I have found that since the +R format was re-designed well after -R came out, the technical designers of +R found some flaws of the -R format and came out with a better file-structure system and more importantly, better error control for the newer +R format.

All true, but most of those improvements to the +R spec have gone unimplimented in production systems, drives and media. The designers of the +R format had some time of experience with the -R format in use to examine it and locate weaknesses, and places for improvement. They did a good job with recordable DVDs version 2, which is really what the +R format is, but in test after test, the disks perform the same. There are much greater differences between lousy -R and good -R disks, and lousy +R and good +R disks, then between good -R and good +R disks. The format is much less of a consideration than the media quality.

Verb AZO disks are always mentiond in this forum, when this question is asked, as one of the two recommended brands to use. T-Y and Verb AZO. The are both excellent choices, and maybe the only good choices left.

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Evil is charming and beautiful. It makes you doubt yourself. It asks for one small compromise after another until it whittles you down, and it functions best when no one believes in it.-JOA
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post #7 of 32 Old 03-15-2012, 06:06 PM
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Cannot comment on 8x vs 16x.
I have three Pannys and a couple of Funai types. I've had success with both - and + media. I tend to record on RW media, edit on my computer, and burn to -R (usually) and +R (less often). I like -R because of more fast forward speed choices. I prefer +RW only because they do not have to be finalized, resulting in quicker turnover when I'm recording back-to-back programs.
I have an inventory of Taiyo Yuden -R blanks and they have never failed me. Verbatims have a perfect record also.
One brand that I rarely see discussed is Sony. I have had great success with -R, +R, -RW, and +RW. One caveat: look for "Made in Taiwan". Most Sonys are now made in Malaysia, and the jury is still out on the quality of those discs. Made in Taiwan can still be found (I just got some on sale at Kmart). The big advantage of Sony is availability. Kmart and Walgreens always have Sony, and often on sale. If you're comfortable with ordering online, T-Y is the way to go.
I hope there is some useful info in this post.

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post #8 of 32 Old 03-15-2012, 06:18 PM
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^^^I frequently use and mention Sony DVDs although I have been having some problems with the Sony pearl top discs of late. Mainly spindle slippage I believe is due to the very slippery top of the pearl tops. I haven't really had problems with the flat white top, inkjet printable Sonys(I only use -R and they are all 16x) from Costco and the nice part is currently they are selling for $21.99, at least in my city. Previously I had stocked up when they were closer to $20. Sams club only sells Memorex which I refuse to purchase, for any price! They use to sell AZO Verbatims which I did buy on occasion.
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post #9 of 32 Old 03-15-2012, 06:26 PM
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The Television Test Certificate seen in my earlier post is a curiosity coming at the beginning of WW2, "the big one" according to Herbert T. Gillis (Frank Faylen).

Here is a larger view of that 26 September 1939 Certificate:
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post #10 of 32 Old 03-15-2012, 08:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Church AV Guy View Post

All true, but most of those improvements to the +R spec have gone unimplimented in production systems, drives and media. The designers of the +R format had some time of experience with the -R format in use to examine it and locate weaknesses, and places for improvement. They did a good job with recordable DVDs version 2, which is really what the +R format is, but in test after test, the disks perform the same.

No argument from me. I use -R without problems and will continue using -R. Come to think of it I remember -R having a file-system improvement in a revision shortly before 16x media came out. There are many folks who swear that +r are superior technology though. There are folks that swear that 8x media are superior to 16x but I don't buy that argument either.
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There are much greater differences between lousy -R and good -R disks, and lousy +R and good +R disks, then between good -R and good +R disks. The format is much less of a consideration than the media quality.

I'm in total agreement.
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Originally Posted by Church AV Guy View Post

Verb AZO disks are always mentiond in this forum, when this question is asked, as one of the two recommended brands to use. T-Y and Verb AZO. The are both excellent choices, and maybe the only good choices left.

I'm in agreement. Although folks have reported satisfactory results with certain Sony DVD+-R discs.
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Originally Posted by crabboy View Post

One brand that I rarely see discussed is Sony. I have had great success with -R, +R, -RW, and +RW. One caveat: look for "Made in Taiwan". Most Sonys are now made in Malaysia, and the jury is still out on the quality of those discs. Made in Taiwan can still be found (I just got some on sale at Kmart). The big advantage of Sony is availability. Kmart and Walgreens always have Sony, and often on sale.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jjeff View Post

^^^I frequently use and mention Sony DVDs although I have been having some problems with the Sony pearl top discs of late. Mainly spindle slippage I believe is due to the very slippery top of the pearl tops. I haven't really had problems with the flat white top, inkjet printable Sonys(I only use -R and they are all 16x) from Costco and the nice part is currently they are selling for $21.99, at least in my city. Previously I had stocked up when they were closer to $20.

I got some Sony 16x (16D1) on sale a few years ago, 50 or 100 can't remember. I used them up mostly on my PC but at least 25 on my stand-alone and they all burned well and seem to be holding up. See enclosed picture for the Sony media ID. Note that my PC reports the speeds as 4x to 20x but they are branded as 4x to 16x.
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post #11 of 32 Old 03-15-2012, 09:02 PM
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Cyclone82, all "hogwash" aside, blank media choices depend first on your hardware and second on your preferences for convenient buying or requirements for "archival" quality.

Modern generic SATA burners housed in PCs will decently burn just about anything, even "junk quality" discs. But if you're concerned about durability after burning, stick to Verbatim AZO or TY/JVC write-once (-R or +R), 4.7 capacity (single layer). At the moment, subject to change, TY/JVC makes better-quality +R than -R, and Verbatim is slightly better at -R than +R. Double layer 8.5 media has been problematic for most mfrs except for the Verbatim +R variety, and of those the discs made in Singapore are usually more consistent. DL is fine for casual backups of commercial DVDs but is generally considered undesirable for archiving data or important videos. Temporary recordings can be made to rewritable/erasable media: since its erasable long-term durability isn't a big concern so you can just buy whatever is on sale. +RW is nicer to use in several respects, but -RW is fine as well. DL 8.5 dvd media is not available in re-usable RW format: scratch that off your list. DL 8.5 is more a specialty item for occasional use than an everyday media.

Since you are specifically asking about the several Panasonic DVD recorders you own, media selection narrows down a bit from what works with PCs. Most Panasonic owners report their machines don't much like the + format. Panasonic never truly embraced the unified -R/+R evolution of recorders: they make good write-once single layer +R DVDs but get cranky with +RW and are allergic to +R dual-layer. With a Panasonic, stick to -R, -RW and RAM media. For best results you probably want to use Verbatim AZO or TY/JVC, Sony can also be good if you follow jjeffs advice to buy matte-white instead of the pearl finish. Panasonics never seem to have any issues at all with standard 16x retail media, a great advantage over most other recorders (those of us with "pickier" machines are often forced to buy 8x media online, despite SuperEye's insistence that we're all just imagining our various 16x problems disappear completely when using 8x).

You seem to have a couple of HDD-equipped recorders, with only the DMR-EZ48V lacking HDD: is this why you're interested in 8.5 DL media, to extend recording time on the EZ48V? If so, you will encounter difficulty: the machine is flakey with DL in general and really needs -R DL to work well. But as ChurchAVGuy noted, only TY/JVC seems to make -R DL: its impossible to find and expensive when you do. You might be better off limiting long recordings to the HDD models, reserving the EZ48V for shorter recordings and VHS tasks. If you absolutely must archive long recordings to 8.5 DL discs, burn 4.7 -RW discs in the recorders then rip to your PC and combine to a final 8.5 +R DL disc there (recycling the -RWs after).
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post #12 of 32 Old 03-15-2012, 09:07 PM
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I have no urge to get into a -R versus +R discussion, but I can report my experience.

We use a Leightronix TCD/IP controller to provide unattended scheduling of station id and announcements from a Pioneer 7400 and the recorded church services from 2 Panasonic S29 DVD players for playing over our Low Power TV station. The dvd in the Pioneer contains six titles, announcements for different times of the day as well as the announcement preceding the church service for each of two different churches. I use -RW for the announcement disc, since the announcements are only 90 seconds each, and change frequently. The Leightronix directs the Pioneer which of the six titles to play at which time.

Because the -RW's have started failing, CANNOT FORMAT, I tried a +RW. The +RW would play only the first title each scheduled time.

I am merely reporting, not defending, condemning, or explaining.
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post #13 of 32 Old 03-16-2012, 12:18 AM - Thread Starter
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Ok thanks for taking the time to post all that info guys, i will spend the weekend reading all above and try absorb it all. Cheers.

Does anyone use these

Verbatim DVD-R 4.7GB Gold Archival Grade 8x 50pk SP HC [X95355]
http://www.amazon.com/Verbatim-95355...1890802&sr=8-1

I know i cant rely 100% on a disc but i want to use the best discs i can for archival/back ups of my commercial bought discs. My plan would be to make 1 copy of each on those, then another copy on decent DVD-R or DVD+R and then i really should get everything on HDD's and then every few years check copies/make another regular back up. They say the gold archival ones last 100 years or so but thats not proven yet but i think they should be good for master copies. I need to get onto this soon, just been really slack and have NOTHING backed up

The onlly thing is they dont make the gold ones in DL. Would the best DL discs to use be for back up/archival be the Verbatim -/+R in the purple packing like these

http://www.amazon.com/Verbatim-96577...1891255&sr=1-3


I have a lot of DL comerical discs so i need a good DL media. I guess splitting the disc into 2 4.7gb discs is an idea too. Film on one extras on second but its not ideal

Those are my main 2 questions now anyway. Still reading through above. Thanks
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post #14 of 32 Old 03-16-2012, 05:09 AM
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I have not used the Gold Verbatim discs, mainly because of the cost. Ty/JVC discs are my gold standard and I haven't been let down yet.
AFA DL media, yes those Verbatim +R DLs are the one I use, almost exclusively in my Panasonic EZ-28 (sister to the EZ-48v) and have had excellent results. I use the same DL blanks in my PC, also with excellent results.
The only odd quirk with recording + media(including +R DL) in a Panasonic is the limited search speeds upon playback, otherwise they seem to work fine in post '05 Panasonics.
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post #15 of 32 Old 03-16-2012, 08:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Super Eye View Post

Again, the old literature has been pulled from circulation and corrected and now corresponds with most other literature on the net that claims it is the burn speed used and not the disc's max rated speed that determines laser power usage.

I'm not going to disagree with any of what you have said, just add a few more facts and comments for general information.

First, not all 16X media will have write strategies in the media-info for burning at the lowest of speeds. I do all my DVD burning/verifying on a PC so I am always presented with the full media info contained on the DVD-R blank. I have 16X media that lists write strategies that only go down to 8X. Someone with an older DVDR that can't burn faster than 4X could mistakenly buy this type of media and possibly run into problems. Blaming it on the 16X media would not be a mistake in this case. Unfortunately that leads to condemning all 16X media on DVDR's.

In these discussions, people usually omit that 16X media is formulated to be burned at 16X using a CAV strategy (constant angular velocity) whereas all lower speed media use a CLV strategy (constant liner velocity). With a CLV strategy, the disk speed changes constantly to achieve constant linear speed of the media below the laser. The amount of time the laser has to burn a "pit" is constant across the burn therefore the pulse-time and pulse-power required is also constant across the burn -- numbers in a table for those quantities are meaningful.

With a CAV strategy the disk cranks up to a high rotational rate right from the start and stays there through the whole burn. When I burn at 16X I hear the drive spin up fast and watch the linear burn rate displayed by the burning software. The burn rate starts out at about 5X as it burns the short tracks at the hub and continuously increases across the burn, only achieving 16X at the end when it burns the outermost tracks at the rim. So, over the course of the burn the laser pulse-time gets progressively shorter hence the laser-power for each pulse gets progressively higher. Single numbers in a table may only reflect the average pulse-power across a burn and do not indicate the maximum power the laser is called upon to emit for the outer tracks. Also, the time difference between 8X and 16X required to burn a full DVD-R is minimal. It takes my burners a little over 8 min to burn at 8X and a little over 6 min at 16X.

- kelson h

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post #16 of 32 Old 03-16-2012, 10:28 AM
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CitiBear, I only have one thing specifically that you said that does not track with my experience:
Quote:


Panasonic never truly embraced the unified -R/+R evolution of recorders: they make good write-once single layer +R DVDs but get cranky with +RW and are allergic to +R dual-layer. With a Panasonic, stick to -R, -RW and RAM media.

Since I have had my first EH55 (date?) I have used Verb +R DL media whenever a movie or other content required it. My first machine, the E85 could not burn anything at all but -R and -RAM disks (if I remember correctly, it's been many years). My next machine, the EH50 could use -R, -RW, -RAM and +R disks, but no dual layer media. Only after I got my EH55 could I burn dual layer media. I have burned quite a few +R DL disks, and they have worked well. Recently I have been looking at some of the oldest disks I have burned, and the DL media is fine, not having a single failure.

The EH55 does not support DL media in a logical fashion though. You cannot record to it "directly," only in high speed mode. It is a requirement that you record the content to the hard drive, and then burn that title to the DL disk in HS mode--and it isn't ALL THAT high speed. The EH59/69 have this restriction also. The manual says that you have to copy to the HDD, then to the disk. It does not say anything about the requirement that the copy be in HS mode, BUT if you choose a realtime (not HS) copy, it makes a additional, temporary copy of the content on the HDD in realtime, then HS copies THAT to the disk, THEN deletes the temporary copy from the HDD. This Rube-Goldberg approach must have made sense to someone. Oh, and the copy will fail if you have insufficient HDD space for the temporary copy.

I would not say that they are allergic to such media, nor do they dislike it, they merely have limitations to the level of support that they perform, but within those limits, the machines work with the disks exactly as predicted. BTW, the -R DL support is not much better then the +R DL support as neither disk can be written to directly. The only advantage I have seen is the FF and RW speeds are better supported, and the trivial issue of the +R disks (all types) needing to be "formatted" before use.

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Evil is charming and beautiful. It makes you doubt yourself. It asks for one small compromise after another until it whittles you down, and it functions best when no one believes in it.-JOA
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post #17 of 32 Old 03-16-2012, 01:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjeff View Post

Sams club only sells Memorex which I refuse to purchase, for any price! They use to sell AZO Verbatims which I did buy on occasion.

Those are probably the same ones sold at Walmart. I have some and they are made in Taiwan by Ritek. The details from digitalFAQ are:

Ritek (Fuji dye) RITEKF1 Taiwan DVD-R, DVD+R Excellent, but not quite archival, uses long-life Fuji Oxonol dye

Orrin - Engineer/Photographer/Webmaster
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post #18 of 32 Old 03-16-2012, 01:59 PM
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DVDShrink works good for copying DL to SL discs.

If you use DVD-RAM discs you won't have to wait for a recording to finish to start playing it. They cost more but they are re-useable and last a very long time. It's nice to have one or two around for the EZ48.
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post #19 of 32 Old 03-16-2012, 04:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Super Eye View Post

I got some Sony 16x (16D1) on sale a few years ago, 50 or 100 can't remember. I used them up mostly on my PC but at least 25 on my stand-alone and they all burned well and seem to be holding up. See enclosed picture for the Sony media ID. Note that my PC reports the speeds as 4x to 20x but they are branded as 4x to 16x.

Just to toss this out there, the days of fantastic Sony media are pretty much gone. Sony outsourced their media production to Daxon (IIRC) who closed up shop in the last couple of years. The "true" SONY08D1/SONY16D1 media was IMHO fantastic, and right behind the TY/Verbatim quality (Especially the Sony 8x stuff).

Now the Sony discs you see are mostly just Sony-branded Ritek, using Ritek media IDs. Not horrible discs, but nothing special.

If you have old stock of Sony media it's great to use but probably not worth anyone going to look for anymore. (although in my limited experience with the Sony branded Riteks it's decent; I don't fully trust it since Sony went down to a 1 or 2 year warranty, though, I feel like it means they're admitting not a lot of faith in their products lasting more than a couple years)
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post #20 of 32 Old 03-16-2012, 06:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelson View Post

not all 16X media will have write strategies in the media-info for burning at the lowest of speeds.

That's why folks should buy a single disc or 5-pack at most, just to check and see if certain media is compatible with their recorders before buying a huge quantity of discs. Or better yet, try to stick to T-Y or Verb azo discs only.

Although the T-Y 8x discs and Verb azo 16x discs that I have clearly state on my PC software that they fall-back down only to 4x - in reality both T-Y 8x and Verb azo 16x discs fallback all the way to real-time 1x burning. I never tried 1x with the 4x to 8x rated T-Y discs but jjeff apparently burned hundreds of them in his stand-alones at 1x real-time with very few failures. Also on the T-Y website it clearly states that the T-Y 8x and T-Y 16x discs both fall-back all the way to 1x real-time burning and that the T-Y 16x line discs fully abide to the old specs established and revised many years ago.

Here it is straight from the horses mouth.
Conforming to the Specification of "DVD-R for General" Version 2.1
and the Optional Specification of "16x-SPEED DVD-R" Revision 6.0
Below is the VERY IMPORTANT statement.
Common
"DVD±R" design assure of writing to 16x
New dye for writing high speed is developed
Developed new dye is writing high speed, and resulted high density
write / read ( for 1x to 16x write)

It is very important to look at the above very clearly. T-Y are claiming that their newest 16x rated dye is combatable all the way down to 1x burning. Again that's straight from the horse's mouth, not from me.

Here is the official link.
http://ds.yuden.co.jp/Detail/ut/M/M/...VD-R%20DL.html

I don't think that this is something T-Y is saying just for kicks because if you notice in the above link, T-Y does not make that 1x burn speed claim for their DVD-R DL discs. They claim a lowest burn speed of 2x for those discs.

Here is a second official T-Y link making the same claims.
http://www.yuden.co.jp/ut/product/category/media/dvdr/
Again claiming a
- 1x to 16x burn speed for 16x media
- 1x to 8x burn speed for 8x media
- 2x to 8x burn speed for DVD-R DL media.

Verbatim 16x azo discs, which I have a lot of experience with make similar claims claiming that their 16x -R azo dye is fully backward compatible all the way down to 1x real-time burning and although my PC software reports only down to 4x burn speed I have successfully burned in realtime, not as many as jjeff's RT burns using T-Y 8x media though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelson View Post

When I burn at 16X I hear the drive spin up fast and watch the linear burn rate displayed by the burning software. The burn rate starts out at about 5X.

This is a very key point. Is the dye the same dye used all the way through out the disc? I would say yes. If I'm correct then that means that the dye HAS to be rated all the way down to 5x speed. Most likely down to an even 4x speed. This to me proves that 6x burners that are in good working condition with a firmware dated after DVD-R Version 2.1 16x-SPEED DVD-R Revision 6.0 came out should have no problem with 16x azo verbs, 16x TYs and any 16x disc that starts at 5x speed. I do not believe that the CAV/CLV stragedy is a factor with burners that were firwared after Version 2.1/Revision 6.0 as the burn speed should fallback as stated on the T-Y site and on the Verbatim site.

Before I go here is the 8x, 16x T-Y power document, the one that is revised with the correct specs no longer claiming that a 16x disc takes more power than a 8x disc when burning at 8x speed..
http://ds.yuden.co.jp/Detail/downloa.../media02_e.pdf
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post #21 of 32 Old 03-16-2012, 11:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Super Eye View Post

If I'm correct then that means that the dye HAS to be rated all the way down to 5x speed. Most likely down to an even 4x speed . . . I do not believe that the CAV/CLV stragedy is a factor with burners that were firwared after Version 2.1/Revision 6.0 as the burn speed should fallback

Yes, it is a single dye and the dye can be burned at lower speeds with the proper write strategy. My point was that a DVDR will try burn anything you put in it. If the disk does not have a write strategy in its media info for the speed the DVDR needs to burn at, it will use a default or generic write strategy to do the burn. If that default strategy is not proper for the disk, you can have problems with the burn.

- kelson h

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post #22 of 32 Old 03-17-2012, 01:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmscott42 View Post

Just to toss this out there, the days of fantastic Sony media are pretty much gone...

Now the Sony discs you see are mostly just Sony-branded Ritek, using Ritek media IDs. Not horrible discs, but nothing special.

If you have old stock of Sony media it's great to use but probably not worth anyone going to look for anymore. (although in my limited experience with the Sony branded Riteks it's decent; I don't fully trust it since Sony went down to a 1 or 2 year warranty, though, I feel like it means they're admitting not a lot of faith in their products lasting more than a couple years)

The new "made in Taiwan" discs purchased recently (and referred to above) turned out to be RitekF1, described by digitalfaq.com as "Excellent, but not quite archival, uses long-life Fuji Oxonol dye", and " 2nd Class Blank DVD Media / Duplication Grade non-Archival Discs".
So they might be fine for everyday copies, but I'd advise sticking to T-Y or Verbatim for stuff you want to archive.

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post #23 of 32 Old 03-17-2012, 08:55 AM
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To avoid confusion, whenever suggesting the use of Verbatim media one should specifically recommend Verbatim "AZO" series Mitsubishi Chemical Corporation (MCC) media, not the "Life Series" media produced by China Magnetics Corporation (CMC).

"A ROSE BY ANY OTHER NAME WILL SMELL AS SWEET. BUT IT DOES NOT FOLLOW THAT WHATEVER WE CHOOSE TO CALL A ROSE WILL POSSESS THE ROSE'S FRAGRANCE."

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post #24 of 32 Old 03-17-2012, 04:26 PM
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I love this cyclone82 guy. He asks such simple newbie questions, bringing us all back to the basics
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post #25 of 32 Old 03-17-2012, 04:56 PM
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For my dvd-r DL I use TY or kodak +DL , and use RIDATA DVD-R DL all with great results in PC or panasonic eh55 eh75 or ez48v series recorders. When recording on the ez48 with DL MEDIA it makes 2 titles , when recording on the eh series their is a slight layer break.

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post #26 of 32 Old 03-17-2012, 05:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mickinct View Post

When recording on the ez48 with DL MEDIA it makes 2 titles , when recording on the eh series their is a slight layer break.

When recording to +R DL on my EZ-28 I can fill the whole disc up with only one title...the EZ-x7 series were the ones that produced 2 titles. Is it the -R DLs that produce 2 titles? If +R DL then the EZ-48v operates differently than the EZ-28, I've never used -R DL media so I don't know how they operate in a EZ-28.
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post #27 of 32 Old 03-17-2012, 05:42 PM
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IF I remember correctly I also have the 47v it was probably the one I used for the -dl when recording the grammys. the 47v series seem to have a better chip for direct recording.

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post #28 of 32 Old 03-17-2012, 09:28 PM - Thread Starter
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Well so far all i know i want Verbatim AZO +/- DL for my dual layer discs.
Just not really sure if i should go with Verbatim of TY for the others. There seems to be some attractive sales advertising for the TY's like 'OEM' kinda indicating they are what commercial discs are made from. I guess its a decision i need to make. I think there is enough info for me now to go shopping anyway. I think i would like those gold archival verbatims too but they are a bit pricey.

Right up near the top someone said that all DVD's are recorded in 4:3 when i was stating that my panasonic manual said that 16:9 can only be recorded on -R discs. How is that when you buy a commercial DVD of a popular Hollywood film or whatever and it is appears 16:9 anamorphic on my computer and then i have plenty of other DVD's that are only in 4:3 full screen?
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post #29 of 32 Old 03-17-2012, 11:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyclone82 View Post


I have a lot of DL comerical discs so i need a good DL media. I guess splitting the disc into 2 4.7gb discs is an idea too. Film on one extras on second but its not ideal

My strategy is to do both, for things that are hard, or impossible, to replace. I don't mind putting the extras on a separate disc at all. But, I do dislike splitting a film between two discs. If a film is too long to put on a -R SL at an acceptable bit-rate, I will put it on a +R DL disc. If the extras will also fit on the DL disc at an acceptable bit-rate, fine, include them on the DL. But, if the film is something that isn't available on DVD (ever, or any longer,) besides the DL copy, I will find a scene break near the middle, and split the film between two -Rs. That way, if the DL goes bad, I'm covered.
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post #30 of 32 Old 03-26-2012, 10:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Church AV Guy View Post

First, let me just say that the difference between the -R and +R designations is all about money. The DVD consortium came up with the -R "read that as DASH R, NOT MINUS R!" format. Some European manufacturers didn't want to pay the licensing fees for the -R format, so they came up with a competing format that they called +R.

I'm confused where you got this information. All the research I've done is that there were 2 groups of manufacturers, one formed in 1995 and the other formed in 1997, while 3 of the companies that were founding members of the 1995 DVD Forum were also founding members of the 1997 DVD Alliance (Sony, Philips, and Thompson (RCA)).
The DVD+RW Alliance was originally formed in 1997 to build a more DVD compatible re-writable format (DVD+RW) than the existing DVD-RAM format that was developed in 1996. The fact that some of the manufacturers that formed the DVD Forum (designers of DVD-RAM, DVD-R, DVD-RW) also founded the DVD+RW alliance (DVD+RW, DVD+R, DVD+R DL), tells me that the formation of the new group wasn't all just about money.
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