Panasonic EZ48 can only record in black & white? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 33 Old 04-15-2012, 02:18 AM - Thread Starter
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Ok i just experimenting and trying to make a recording to VHS on my EZ48V.
My LCD TV has audio and composite out put. I fed these into the front AV input on the EZ48. I had the EZ48 rear out put connected to my other CRT via composite just to see what was happening. It passes through colour picture through EZ48 to the CRT fine. I went and pressed record and recorded to VHS for a few minutes. After that when i played it back on the TV it was in black and white. I though oh no why would it not record to VHS in colour?

Then i disconnected the CRT and fed the composite output from the EZ48 direct to my LCD TV. Same thing, black and white. What was recorded on the VHS was black and white. So then i thought it was something to do with the AV out on my LCD TV.

Next thing i did was set up a separte set top box and connect that directly to the front AV input. Made a recording and the same thing happend and it recorded to the VHS in black and white.

So i have proved its the EZ48V, at least the front input. I have not tried the rear.

Why can i only record in black and white to VHS?

I feel like i have been through all the settings, switched between NTSC/PAL etc.

The only thing i am not sure of is what does setting the comb filter on/off do?

I hope its not a problem with my unit, have not even filled out warrenty card yet, so this problem is now top priority for me.

Any idea why it wont record in colour via front AV input to VHS? Is the EZ48 even ment to have this capability or are the AV inputs only for recording to DVD?

Ok i just checked and i can record in colour to VHS when using the RF in/inbuilt tuner in the EZ48.
So that proves its not a tape problem.
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post #2 of 33 Old 04-15-2012, 07:33 AM
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Sounds like you may be using component outputs by mistake, rather than composite. One of those is essentially black and white.
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post #3 of 33 Old 04-15-2012, 08:38 AM - Thread Starter
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Nope... red white yellow.

Can somone please try and make a recording via front AV inputs to VHS so i can see if its just my unit or not?
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post #4 of 33 Old 04-15-2012, 10:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyclone82 View Post

Ok i just experimenting and trying to make a recording to VHS on my EZ48V.
My LCD TV has audio and composite out put. I fed these into the front AV input on the EZ48. I had the EZ48 rear out put connected to my other CRT via composite just to see what was happening. It passes through colour picture through EZ48 to the CRT fine. I went and pressed record and recorded to VHS for a few minutes. After that when i played it back on the TV it was in black and white. I though oh no why would it not record to VHS in colour?

Then i disconnected the CRT and fed the composite output from the EZ48 direct to my LCD TV. Same thing, black and white. What was recorded on the VHS was black and white. So then i thought it was something to do with the AV out on my LCD TV.

Next thing i did was set up a separte set top box and connect that directly to the front AV input. Made a recording and the same thing happend and it recorded to the VHS in black and white.

So i have proved its the EZ48V, at least the front input. I have not tried the rear.

Why can i only record in black and white to VHS?

I feel like i have been through all the settings, switched between NTSC/PAL etc.

The only thing i am not sure of is what does setting the comb filter on/off do?

I hope its not a problem with my unit, have not even filled out warrenty card yet, so this problem is now top priority for me.

Any idea why it wont record in colour via front AV input to VHS? Is the EZ48 even ment to have this capability or are the AV inputs only for recording to DVD?

Ok i just checked and i can record in colour to VHS when using the RF in/inbuilt tuner in the EZ48.
So that proves its not a tape problem.


hi cyclone....

let me understand correctly.... you are trying to record FROM EZ-48 TO a VHS machine using a LINE connection ?

if this is correct, my guess is that the target machine ( VHS recorder ) probably has a problem with ' color subcarrier ' sensitivity....

it could also be that the color subcarrier OUTPUT from the EZ48 is a bit low...

in the ' olden ' days, this could be adjusted and, for all i know, might be adjustable on your VHS machine...

if the color subcarrier is weak, the target machine will ' squelch ', resulting in a black & white picture...

sometimes one of those ' video enhancer ' devices will regenerate the video signal, improving the color subcarrier level and, thus, restoring color to your recordings...

just my .02 ...

rgds,
ron g
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post #5 of 33 Old 04-15-2012, 10:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyclone82 View Post

Ok i just experimenting and trying to make a recording to VHS on my EZ48V.
My LCD TV has audio and composite out put. I fed these into the front AV input on the EZ48. I had the EZ48 rear out put connected to my other CRT via composite just to see what was happening. It passes through colour picture through EZ48 to the CRT fine. I went and pressed record and recorded to VHS for a few minutes. After that when i played it back on the TV it was in black and white. I though oh no why would it not record to VHS in colour?

Then i disconnected the CRT and fed the composite output from the EZ48 direct to my LCD TV. Same thing, black and white. What was recorded on the VHS was black and white. So then i thought it was something to do with the AV out on my LCD TV.

Next thing i did was set up a separte set top box and connect that directly to the front AV input. Made a recording and the same thing happend and it recorded to the VHS in black and white.

So i have proved its the EZ48V, at least the front input. I have not tried the rear.

Why can i only record in black and white to VHS?

I feel like i have been through all the settings, switched between NTSC/PAL etc.

The only thing i am not sure of is what does setting the comb filter on/off do?

I hope its not a problem with my unit, have not even filled out warrenty card yet, so this problem is now top priority for me.

Any idea why it wont record in colour via front AV input to VHS? Is the EZ48 even ment to have this capability or are the AV inputs only for recording to DVD?

Ok i just checked and i can record in colour to VHS when using the RF in/inbuilt tuner in the EZ48.
So that proves its not a tape problem.

one other thing, here...

if the SOURCE is the TV, it may be the TV itself that has slightly weak color subcarrier output....

the only true way to tell is to measure it all with a scope...

rgds,
ron g
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post #6 of 33 Old 04-15-2012, 03:44 PM - Thread Starter
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No i am n ot trying to record from the EZ48
Yes i first initally fed line out from LCD TV (red white yellow) to front (r,w,y) on EZ48 and the rear output from EZ48 (r,w,y) was fed to another CRT TV. I know thiss sounds weird but please read on. Before pressing the record button on EZ48, i can see that the EZ48 is passing colour TV through to CRT TV so i know the LCD is outputting colour fine. Press record and it does not record in colour to VHS in EZ48.

I have also connected LCD TV line out direct to CRT line in with EZ48 out the chain. colour displays fine.

Ok now forget at above. I take the LCD TV with its line out, out of the equation, removed from chain.

I have the EZ48's rear line out connected to CRT TV how you typically would.

I connected set top box r,w,y to front of EZ48. Press record......it does not record in colour to VHS in EZ48.

In basic terms, just imagine anything connected to the front inputs of the EZ48, could be another VCR or a camcorder. It wont record that to VHS in colour. That is basics of it. Try to ignore what i was initally doing with LCD TV line out etc because i proved that had nothing to do with it when i simply tried to record from a set top box line out to line in on the EZ48. That was just part of the story that lead me to teh discovery when i was in a rush to record a show so i quickly just connected the line out from LCD to EZ48 as a quick way to make a recording because i did not have time to swap around RF line direct to rear of EZ48.

The EZ48 will record to VHS in colour when i record internally to it from the inbuilt tuner.

The problem, if there is one is completely to do with the EZ48.


So can anyone record in colour to VHS from line inputs on EZ48?
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post #7 of 33 Old 04-15-2012, 08:16 PM - Thread Starter
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UPDATE

I just tried to record to VHS from the rear AV1 Iinput and yes i can record in colour via rear inputs.

I still can not record to VHS in colour from front AV2 inputs.

Why?
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post #8 of 33 Old 04-16-2012, 12:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyclone82 View Post

UPDATE

I just tried to record to VHS from the rear AV1 Iinput and yes i can record in colour via rear inputs.

I still can not record to VHS in colour from front AV2 inputs.

Why?

soooooooo, your ez48 probably has trouble ( obvious, i know )...

i still believe that there may be a color subcarrier problem somewhere...

not having seen this machine, nor do i know about its internal workings, i would hazard a guess that your front line input and rear line input utilize individual video switching paths, using various individual buffer amps, etc, and that the path for your front line input has a component problem, like bandwidth somewhere. such a problem would match the facts... loss of 3.58 mHz color subcarrier...

the problem can be caused by anything from a lousy coupling cap to a lousy video amp ic or transistor, or even a cold solder joint...

nitty gritty, i know...

if you are a techie ( and have a scope - service manual would help also ) you can confirm this by tapping the video path at various points until you see no 3.58 mhz burst signal in the composite video...

rgds,
ron g
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post #9 of 33 Old 04-16-2012, 12:46 AM - Thread Starter
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Another update

i just connected my LG DVD player to the front inputs using S-video. And guess what, it actually recorded in colour to the VHS!

Ok i swapped back to the yellow composite out on the DVD player and it would only record in black and white.

So i have at least pin pointed the problem. I guess i have to ring Panasonic tomorrow. I hope their service is good and they dont just say the usual 'your unit is working fine'

I wonder how serious of a problem this is to fix?
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post #10 of 33 Old 04-16-2012, 08:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyclone82 View Post

Another update

i just connected my LG DVD player to the front inputs using S-video. And guess what, it actually recorded in colour to the VHS!

Ok i swapped back to the yellow composite out on the DVD player and it would only record in black and white.

So i have at least pin pointed the problem. I guess i have to ring Panasonic tomorrow. I hope their service is good and they dont just say the usual 'your unit is working fine'

I wonder how serious of a problem this is to fix?

hi cyclone -

more evidence to the color subcarrier sensitivity theory, since you have at least 1 source that causes a good record process...

the s-video and composite video paths are individual...

from a tech standpoint, the problem is easy to fix... trace to the component that's causing low sensitivity and replace it... again, might be something as silly as a bad cap or resistor that has changed ( or is wrong ) value over time...

in practice, it depends on the place you ask to fix it...

also in practice, assuming you don't go the repair route, is to, again, utilize one of those enhancer gadgets. these gadgets usually end up either amplifying or regenerating the various aspects of the composite video signal and may well boost levels to that which your front AV input needs.

rgds,
ron g
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post #11 of 33 Old 04-16-2012, 07:41 PM - Thread Starter
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I am going to ring Panasonic and see if they can fix it. I only got it in January and have only used to watch about 1 DVD and test out recording and watch a couple VHS and thats about it. I think it may have been like this from new and slipped through QC?. At least i know its a problem between the composite connector to the record section. It displays colour as pass through to the reat outlet an into the TV, but it just wont record that colour to VHS.
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post #12 of 33 Old 04-17-2012, 06:31 AM
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If I have this right, your problem is that recording from the front composite input to VHS results in a b/w VHS recording . . . pass-through from the front composite port to a TV is in color.

I may have missed it but did you try recording from that same input to DVD-R/W? Is it only the VHS recording that is faulty

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post #13 of 33 Old 04-17-2012, 06:52 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:


If I have this right, your problem is that recording from the front composite input to VHS results in a b/w VHS recording . . . pass-through from the front composite port to a TV is in color.

correct.

Quote:


I may have missed it but did you try recording from that same input to DVD-R/W? Is it only the VHS recording that is faulty

Have not tride tried to DVD but i will check before sending it off. May do the same with DVD too.


Rang Panny support today, they forwarded me to the authorised repair center in my state. Need to send it off to them later this week. Was not mush the guy coulds say/do over the phone and there is nothing more i could do with it here and i did not want to void warrenty. If i was out of warrenty i would have opened it. Will be interesting to see what the problem is with it.
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post #14 of 33 Old 04-19-2012, 12:01 AM - Thread Starter
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I tried recording to DVD from AV1 and AV2 via composite this morning and it worked fine. Colour was there. Just wont make a colour recording to VHS from AV2 composite. Anyway i have sent it off to the service center. Its in their hands now.
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post #15 of 33 Old 04-26-2012, 12:32 AM - Thread Starter
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I got a call back today and they said they fixed my recorder. I asked what the problem is and they said it was the RAM drive. I could not ask anymore about it because i was at work and busy but after i got the the phone i was puzzled. I thought this problem had nothing to do with the RAM drive. It was the VHS side of things that was the problem. Does this sound right to you guys? they said they replaced the RAM drive. Before i get the courier to pick it up i will call them tomorrow and ask to speak to the actual repairer to find out what they did. I have burnt about 10 mins to disc and watched about 30 mins worth off DVD's on it while running through tests. I do not understand how the disc drive has anything to do with not being able to record in colour via front composite in to VHS. I clearly said in the letter i inlcluded that it would not record in colour to VHS via fon composite but would record in colour to DVD etc. Something does not sound right to me.

If it is true how can the RAM dive pack up with next to no use or could it have been like this from new? I only spotted the problem when i went to record to VHS from front AV in so it may have been like this from new. How common is it for the RAM drive to be replaced from virtually no disc use at all? I k ow the lasers wear out but thats usually after several years and 1000's of hours of use. i wonder if i should buy a spare now incase i need it if it happens again.

Anyway i hope you guys who know the insides of pannnys can help me out here because i want to be 100% sure they have fixed it properly and have not gone and done something that did not need doing or have rang the wrong person and told me what was done to someone elses unit.

Thanks
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post #16 of 33 Old 04-26-2012, 04:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyclone82 View Post

I got a call back today and they said they fixed my recorder.

Logically, the repair they said they performed makes no sense at all. You need to call back and ask the right questions before they send it back to you. They may have confused it for another unit from a different customer. Easy to fix this now, a big PITA if you get it back and you still have the problem.
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post #17 of 33 Old 04-26-2012, 04:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyclone82 View Post

I tried recording to DVD from AV1 and AV2 via composite this morning and it worked fine. Colour was there. Just wont make a colour recording to VHS from AV2 composite. Anyway i have sent it off to the service center. Its in their hands now.

You have stated that AV2 works properly recording to DVD so that verifies the signal is good all the way through main board until it gets processed. DVD is digital VHS is analog so it sounds like somewhere pre or post analog processing it is losing color. The DVD and VHS circuits should be isolated for the most part post processing from the main board. If you could find a service manual for this machine, rkg22 could more than likely tell you if the RAM drive would interfere with the VHS circuit.
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post #18 of 33 Old 04-26-2012, 08:09 AM - Thread Starter
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I am going to call them during lunch tomorrow when i have time. The only thing is i now wonder if if 'RAM drive' means something else? I thought it ment the DVD RAM drive but maybe RAM drive is actually something else? some sort of processor?

I clearly wrote in the notes to them what the problem was so i cant see how they could have gone off on their own and replaced the actual disc drive.

I will look for service manual tomorrow.
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post #19 of 33 Old 04-26-2012, 09:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyclone82 View Post

I am going to call them during lunch tomorrow when i have time. The only thing is i now wonder if if 'RAM drive' means something else? I thought it ment the DVD RAM drive but maybe RAM drive is actually something else? some sort of processor?

I clearly wrote in the notes to them what the problem was so i cant see how they could have gone off on their own and replaced the actual disc drive.

I will look for service manual tomorrow.

I acquired a service manual for your model. If anyone needs it, just PM me.
Briefly looking at the drawings, the front jack P.C.B. plugs directly into the main P.C.B. The VTR MECHANISM UNIT (VHS) also plugs directly into the main. The analog input more than likely is processed and stays on the main rather than going to the DIGITAL P.C.B. interfacing with the DVD drive.
LL
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post #20 of 33 Old 04-28-2012, 12:43 AM - Thread Starter
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I could not get hold of the technician on Friday so will try again on Monday.
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post #21 of 33 Old 04-30-2012, 12:23 AM - Thread Starter
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Well, I finally got in touch with the repairer and he said yes the RAM drive which is the DVD RAM drive was replaced although this was not the problem. It was actually a main processing board that is attached to the drive and is not available as a separate part and has to be bought with the drive because he said that’s how they come set up from japan. He could not really say the cause of it but said it could have been like that from new. He said the old one gets sent back to japan for inspecation/repair or whatever. I got the impression all the warrenty centres do is find the faulty part and replace it. He mentioned something about some more high tech testing gear but he said only panasonic have access to that.
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post #22 of 33 Old 04-30-2012, 10:13 AM
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Quote:


I got the impression all the warrenty centres do is find the faulty part and replace it.

Yes, that's pretty much the case with these kind of things. They do module replacement at best, and that's all. In many cases, you are lucky for even that much. It isn't uncommon for the "repair center" to replace your machine with an "equivalent model" and ship your whole machine back to some giant rework facility, and then when it is either fixed or parted out, someone ELSE gets your machine, or its parts.

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post #23 of 33 Old 04-30-2012, 07:38 PM - Thread Starter
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Well they wont ship it anywhere, i have to organise the courier to pick it up from them. I have the serial number written down so i will know if they replaced my machine. In this case it seems unlikely, the guy sounded honest enough and said it was a simple swap of part.
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post #24 of 33 Old 05-01-2012, 02:09 PM
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Cyclone,
Did you download a copy of the service manual? It has a lot of great info in it for anybody who owns one of these machines. The manual includes things that do not require you to be a technician to use, such as service modes for self diagnosis.
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post #25 of 33 Old 05-01-2012, 08:38 PM - Thread Starter
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Where is the link to download it? Is it the US version or worldwide? (there are slight differences as mine has no USB in)

Got it back today and will test it tonight. Its not covered in scratches which is good but they did not pack it as good as i did when i sent it to them.
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post #26 of 33 Old 05-01-2012, 09:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by morc258 View Post

Cyclone,
Did you download a copy of the service manual? It has a lot of great info in it for anybody who owns one of these machines. The manual includes things that do not require you to be a technician to use, such as service modes for self diagnosis.

See the information and cautions linked in this post:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...1#post17527631

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post #27 of 33 Old 05-01-2012, 10:54 PM - Thread Starter
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Ahh 15 pages, which page is the relevant info on?
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post #28 of 33 Old 05-02-2012, 04:52 AM - Thread Starter
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Well I just spent a few hours testing things out an all seems to be ok i reckon. Can even upscale VHS over HDMI!

I could record from an external DVD player to front and rear composite and s-vid connections and also record from the tuner. I only struck problems when i tried another commerical DVD and when i went to watch it back the picture was really messed up so i guess there was CSS on it. I tried running it through one of those black boxes with composite only like the MCM ones but it did not work so i assume it only works for VHS.
I also found that when set the EZ48 to NTSC system it wont output the DVB-T tuner to the TV properly so i guess the tuner cant output in NTSC. I can output VHS in NTSC though. and on my TV it says 'NTSC' When i have the EZ set at PAL and play a NTSC tape, it will only output via composite and on the screen it says 'NTSC443'. To output NTSC over s-vid or component i need to set the EZ48 to 'NTSC'. I worked all that out when i got the unit though, its something to do with outputing VHS through the DVD priority section.

Just remembered, i have not tested recording to DVD yet. That did work before though.

Anyway main thing is i am pretty sure its all working fine as it should now but i wish i knew the cause of the problem and if it was like that from new or not.

Thanks to those that offered help early on, especially morc258
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post #29 of 33 Old 05-02-2012, 09:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyclone82 View Post

Well I just spent a few hours testing things out an all seems to be ok i reckon.

I am glad to hear they addressed your issue with success.
The service manual I have is for DMR-EZ48VEB. I'm not sure how many variants of that model they made but they are probably very similar within the EZ48 designation.
I acquired the manual from scribd. They will allow you to download a manual in exchange for uploading them a different manual.
If you do not wish to get it from them, PM me your email addy, and I'll send it your way.
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post #30 of 33 Old 05-02-2012, 08:06 PM - Thread Starter
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EB is UK version which i think is much the same as AUS but i reckon they would have scart connectors. I can get it from scribid, i have done that before. Thanks
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