I don't understand the major price increase on Magnavox515? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 24 Old 05-03-2012, 12:20 AM - Thread Starter
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I don't understand the major price increase on Magnavox515?

A year ago there where $250. now there $329 is there features? I don't think there whorth more than $300.

My timing is way off I'll be shipping my Pannie off today and a couple of days ago my 515 freezes up after a power outage. been looking over the procedure to bring it back to life so far unseccesfully.

What am I gonna do I need picture in picture maybe get out a old VCR and a analog to digital converter?


I was gonna reply on the other simiairl thread however it's over 101 days?
Thanks STB

 

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post #2 of 24 Old 05-03-2012, 12:46 AM
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When a product gets low un supply, some sellers think/know that many people will be getting desperate to buy what ever the product is and because you cant just walk into any shop and get one, they feel they can set the price to whatever they want and there will usually be someone who will come along and be willing to buy it as they cant find one elsewhere. This sort of happend to me when i bought a 2010 model panasonic a month or so ago. Back 6 or 12 months ago they were getting rid of close out models for around $400 or so and then they were kinda all gone. Then some stocks remained, mainly online. The prices were back up near the original RRP. The best i found was around $799 but i was not sure if i wanted to get into DVD recorders yet, that was late last year, so i let it go. Then i decided i wanted one and that shop no longer had them. The next best i found was $830. I tried to haggle with them to come down lower but it was kinda hard to do via email anyway but they said no we cant go any lower because we have the best price on the market for this model, which was probably right as supplies were low (they had 18) and the other online prices were up aroun $900, so i just had to go with the $830. So really it comes down to supply and demand. You will see the prices of new magnavoxes increase as the months go by.

You will often see crazy prices from sellers on amazon too. So inflated that no one will bite. There was this VHS i wanted and it was rare and hard to find but no where near impossible to get elsewhere and the seller was asking $1600 or so for it. It was not even NOS. So stupid because non even a serious collector (which i am) would pay that for that particular tape. If i was really desperate i may of grabbed it at $200 if it was that much, but at that point i would have been really desperate. Oh and its out on DVD too anyway.
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post #3 of 24 Old 05-03-2012, 06:10 AM
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Originally Posted by stevethebrain View Post

I don't understand the major price increase on Magnavox515?

Simple: supply and demand.
Restrict supply -- or make it appear to be restricted -- and increase demand with some major pimping on this forum.

- kelson h

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post #4 of 24 Old 05-03-2012, 10:02 AM
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AVS hysteria, which happens each time a popular DVD/HDD recorder model or brand is discontinued. The same scenario played out with the USA/Canada Panasonic EH55/75, Pioneer 560, and Toshiba XS series. People went nuts, and predatory sellers on eBay and Amazon asked for (and got) double the normal retail price for the leftover stock, or even used units. We are an obsessive bunch to begin with, and wajo's relentless 24/7 Magnavox hype on AVS, WalMart, J&R, and wherever else he can post makes this "discontinuation" more melodramatic than usual (plus if the Magnavox really goes, there's nothing left except old second-hand recorders).

What makes this time different from the others is that it isn't just the usual suspects on eBay and Amazon: the major retailer that has carried the Magnavox all along has also raised its prices significantly. This flies in the face of conventional retailer practice: when a product is discontinued, they want to get rid of any trace of it ASAP, so if anything they put it on sale. WalMart has gone in the reverse direction, jacking the price up 50%. So some other issue is in play here besides the presumed discontinuation of the 515.

Some members have theorized WalMart still likes the idea of being the only source of DVD/HDD recorders in USA, but has finally grown fed up with low profit margins being destroyed by legions of returned units that then flow downstream to J&R. The petition circulated here could have made WalMart try an experiment: jack up the price on the remaining supply of 515s, and if enough crazed consumers bite at that price, it becomes the new retail price going forward. This makes the decision to extend the contract with Funai more feasible, because the new model will be pitched at a higher initial price to defray the expected losses from returned units.

In the end, such a scheme would likely not be workable for long: the primary market of us AVS lunatics is already saturated. Seriously, how many here own a 2160, a 513 and a 515 and are willing to stockpile another two or three new "517s" @ $329? The stupid-cheap price point is the key to Magnavox dubious success over the last few years (dubious because no one is making a dime off $169 refurbs, and admit it: thats all 90% of us are interested in).

Wajo can talk anybody into a refurb 513 at $169, or a new 515 at $229, but when we hit $329 and up Joe Average tunes right out and digs his old VCR from the back of the closet. Power users with cable who were on the fence will view the Panasonic EH59 as a much more attractive unit than the Magnavox once the "new" Magnavox is selling for the same over-$300 price (unless they're hell-bent on using the Magnavox internal cable tuner, despite all the horror stories, in which case they deserve what they get). For $329, the alleged pending new Magnavox had better fix some longstanding issues- if its just a 515 with a larger HDD people will just sit back and wait for the J&R refurbs, and WalMart will lose once again.
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post #5 of 24 Old 05-03-2012, 10:17 AM
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Originally Posted by CitiBear View Post

. . . if its just a 515 with a larger HDD people will just sit back and wait for the J&R refurbs

They will do that anyway, no matter what any "new" unit may look like.

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post #6 of 24 Old 05-03-2012, 01:11 PM
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Citibear, the one problem with your theory about the "average Joe" and dvd recorders is that the "average Joe" never bought dvd recorders. Only fanantics like use did. The "average Joe" went directly from vhs to cableco dvrs. They have no interest in this machine and never will, no matter what the price.

And @ $329, the Maganavox 515 isn't that expensive. Not when you compare it to the HD dvr's like the CM-7400 or Tivo w/lifetime sub. And you can burn a dvd with it. Aren't we the guys who've complained for years that the lowest price possible mentality in this country has hurt the dvr/dvd recorder business? So when someone prices a unit correctly, we get all po'd about it?

And I'm not really interested in the Mag or a supporter of Funai or Wal-Mart. I still have a perfectly good EH-75V connected to my Dish dvr and a ATSC usb tuner connected to my HTPC.
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post #7 of 24 Old 05-03-2012, 01:49 PM
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Originally Posted by mhufnagel View Post

...the one problem with your theory about the "average Joe" and dvd recorders is that the "average Joe" never bought dvd recorders. Only fanantics like us did.

Boy that sure ain't true!! I'm nuthin'but a joe 6 pak(the average Joe),no electronics training,no tech training at all,and the low income to prove it!,and i LOVE my DVDR's,all 4 of them.
I have found them to be Very Easy to use(never could figure why so many people have sooo much trouble using them),make recordings that are satisfactory too me,and are a LOT of fun for me to play around with.Iv'e recorded ~750-800 movies and several hundred eps.of various 50's and 60's tv shows and other programming,and i'm still recording.Maybe i've been lucky,but i've rarely ever had a problem that i couldn't figure out myself,and when i have asked for help,the answer will be one that i 'should have' figured out myself.Then i feel stupid. I like DVDR's and am sorry that they never,for whatever reasons,"took off" in America.If they had....
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post #8 of 24 Old 05-03-2012, 08:07 PM
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Originally Posted by greaser View Post

Boy that sure ain't true!! I'm nuthin'but a joe 6 pak(the average Joe),no electronics training,no tech training at all,and the low income to prove it!,and i LOVE my DVDR's,all 4 of them.
I have found them to be Very Easy to use(never could figure why so many people have sooo much trouble using them),make recordings that are satisfactory too me,and are a LOT of fun for me to play around with.Iv'e recorded ~750-800 movies and several hundred eps.of various 50's and 60's tv shows and other programming,and i'm still recording.Maybe i've been lucky,but i've rarely ever had a problem that i couldn't figure out myself,and when i have asked for help,the answer will be one that i 'should have' figured out myself.Then i feel stupid. I like DVDR's and am sorry that they never,for whatever reasons,"took off" in America.If they had....

If you've recorded 750 - 800 movies, you're not "Joe Average". You're a fanantic like the rest of us. There's no need to be an electronic wiz to work dvr's. But you do need the dedication to be able to what you want them to do and find the answers to problems you can't solve on your own. The people who don't take the time and effort are the ones who return them to Wal-Mart.
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post #9 of 24 Old 05-04-2012, 05:58 AM
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Well, I returned one of my 513s to WalMart, but that was because it was defective and no amount of soft resets could fix the problem. I pity the person that got that unit as a refurb.
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post #10 of 24 Old 05-04-2012, 09:51 AM
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I have a suspicion that, as has been suggested, that the price increase on the Walmart web site is a product positioning maneuver. If they have found a few more (new) 515s, they are "testing the waters" to see how well they would sell at a higher proce point. This positioning will tell them if there is a viable market for a follow-on machine. If the entire market consists of a few rabid fanatics, like me, then there is little chance of an update to the 515. If the price changes do not have an appreciable effect on sales, then there MIGHT be a chance.

The increases from other vendors, and eBay, are just price gouging in the face of product shortages. I remember Amazon.com having some DVD recorders for sale a year or more after they had all but disappeared from any other vendor, at prices that were in the $1500 range for a machine that originally sold for around $400.

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post #11 of 24 Old 05-04-2012, 11:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Church AV Guy View Post

I have a suspicion that, as has been suggested, that the price increase on the Walmart web site is a product positioning maneuver.

That would be an awfully strange way to position a product, don't you think? Jack the price up $100 (almost 50%) on a product you have been selling and use that to gauge potential sales of a follow-on product? Where have you ever seen that before?

I still suspect the original "shortage" of 515 stock was "manufactured" to clear out the 513 stock they were stuck with because they introduced the 515 too close to the 513. See how quickly the 515 stock magically "reappeared" when the 513's were all sold off. Then they capitalized on the end-of-life scare and frenzy to do a bit of price gouging themselves. Since they have denied the ability to track their inventory, you can't tell if they are being resupplied -- so fears of the end continue and they can keep the price up.

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post #12 of 24 Old 05-04-2012, 11:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Church AV Guy View Post

I have a suspicion that, as has been suggested, that the price increase on the Walmart web site is a product positioning maneuver. If they have found a few more (new) 515s, they are "testing the waters" to see how well they would sell at a higher proce point. This positioning will tell them if there is a viable market for a follow-on machine. If the entire market consists of a few rabid fanatics, like me, then there is little chance of an update to the 515. If the price changes do not have an appreciable effect on sales, then there MIGHT be a chance.

I don't see the price changes here as a product positioning maneuver, nor a "testing the waters" situation, as this current scenario isn't a normal market condition. Supply is down, presumably with no continuation of a replacement model in sight, so that raised demand. That higher demand allowed for a higher price point to continue to sell, so I can't realistically imagine that they would expect a newer model to continue to sell at that price when the supply is suddenly raised. Totally different market conditions. I think Occam's Razor applies here: basic supply and demand forces.
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post #13 of 24 Old 05-04-2012, 12:21 PM
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dare2be, I would agree with you if not for the elephant in the room that has thrown a confusing wrench into any normal line of reasoning: Wajo The Wizard has been dropping leaden hints right and left the last few weeks, implying he's sitting on "inside info" that he just can't keep to himself even though he was probably told to keep it under his hat (if in fact he did get tipped off). He has made it pretty clear recently that he believes an update to the 515 is definitely in the pipeline, the only questions being when it will be released and whether its truly new or yet another warmed-over H2160 with minor bug fixes and a larger HDD. Since his Funai buddy "234" has not contradicted him or posted the usual mfr disclaimer that "they don't confirm or deny rumors," wajo may be onto something.

WalMart is not in the business of speculative selling of discontinued product: the price manipulations they're pulling make no sense at all unless its to prepare for a newer, perhaps more advanced model to sell at a more reasonable price (the 515 at $229 was ridiculously, unsustainably lowball, there's not a chance on this earth Panasonic or Sony would sell at that price even if the market was thriving- which it isn't). WalMart would not bother with the effort to raise the 513/515 prices if it was totally discontinued: they'd want to unload remaining stock ASAP.

Unless Kelson nailed it, and they were sitting on 20,000 MDR513s they couldn't give away after the 515 came out. Nobody knows, we just have to wait and see what happens. If you're on a tight budget, I wouldn't run for an overpriced 515 even though the signs seem scary: just because the things are selling out quicker than usual at WalMart doesn't mean they're all going to AVS types. Wajo also beats his drum on retailer websites and less technical sites than AVS, inciting a ton of average consumers to buy a Magnavox. That's why J&Rs refurb stock just got refilled again: there's always a large percentage of returns if you wait a few weeks. And if a new "517" does come out eventually, with a tuner that doesn't brick the machine every time the cable company has an analog channel hiccup, you'll feel cheated having plunked down $329 for a 515.
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post #14 of 24 Old 05-04-2012, 12:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greaser View Post

I'm nuthin'but a joe 6 pak(the average Joe),no electronics training,no tech training at all,and the low income to prove it!,and i LOVE my DVDR's,all 4 of them.

Sorry, greaser, but you're FAR more advanced than "Average Joe" consumer: anyone who participates regularly in the "Component To S-Video Converter" threads is WAY more tech savvy than the typical consumer. I think of you as more of a "hybrid" consumer: you normally wouldn't want to be bothered with all this fuss and expense, but you're motivated by a strong interest in recording tasks that are just out of range for the usual subscription PVR or DVD/VHS combo. So you made the investment of learning and buying into DVD/HDD. And we're glad you did, cuz you've posted a huge amount of useful info in the more arcane tech threads here.

We've all spent years bending over backwards to be polite and not point-blank grouse that the typical American consumer is a cheap, disinterested, lazy ass when it comes to video recording: but they are. If they wouldn't pay $399 for Panasonic/Sony/Pioneer/Toshiba in 2006 when the economy was on fire and the machines at their pre-ATSC design peak, they sure as heck are not going to pay $329 for a post-ATSC Funai, and remember WalMart has long struggled to sell the 515 profitably even at $229 (the number of open box returns boggles the mind: more Magnavoxes have probably been returned than Pioneer has ever sold). WalMart is attempting, perhaps for the last time, to find the sweet spot between selling a nice affordable DVD/HDD recorder, and losing their shirt on it. Solving Rubiks Cube would be easier.
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post #15 of 24 Old 05-04-2012, 02:05 PM
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Originally Posted by CitiBear View Post

WalMart is not in the business of speculative selling of discontinued product: the price manipulations they're pulling make no sense at all unless its to prepare for a newer, perhaps more advanced model to sell at a more reasonable price

Well, for all the people who want to continue with DVDR's I hope you are right. However, I just can't shake the notion that this is it -- when the 515 is done that is it for the US DVDR market. Given the "refurb" countdown, there just seems like a lot of returns. Returns cost money to handle and repackage and then are sold at a loss vs. retail price. You know walmart is not going to take the hit for them which means funai is eating the loss -- the box says they come from a funai refurb plant, right.

I guess selling a complex device for a really cheap price is asking for trouble. It entices people to buy one who have no business even opening the box -- then they return it. Hardly used, but used all the same which means it has to be handled and sold at a loss. This would make a good case for raising the price to keep the riff-raff from buying it. Seems as good a theory as any?

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post #16 of 24 Old 05-04-2012, 02:06 PM
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Originally Posted by CitiBear View Post

dare2be, I would agree with you if not for the elephant in the room that has thrown a confusing wrench into any normal line of reasoning: Wajo The Wizard has been dropping leaden hints right and left the last few weeks, implying he's sitting on "inside info" that he just can't keep to himself even though he was probably told to keep it under his hat (if in fact he did get tipped off). He has made it pretty clear recently that he believes an update to the 515 is definitely in the pipeline, the only questions being when it will be released and whether its truly new or yet another warmed-over H2160 with minor bug fixes and a larger HDD. Since his Funai buddy "234" has not contradicted him or posted the usual mfr disclaimer that "they don't confirm or deny rumors," wajo may be onto something.

I think the "Wajo factor" only increased the perceived (and real) demand for the discontinued models in Walmart's eyes, with the letter-writing campaign and multiple reports of "this is the end of the line", long before the discontinued models started lowering in inventory supply. Also, IIRC, the prices Walmart charged started rising long before there were any indication that there might be a successive model. I think the "elephant in the room" only helped fuel the supply/demand factor before there was any other indication of future developments.
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post #17 of 24 Old 05-04-2012, 05:00 PM
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I don't know what's going on with Wal-Mart raising the price of the Magnavox or if a new deck is about to appear but one thing is very true, usually.

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Originally Posted by CitiBear View Post

..the major retailer that has carried the Magnavox all along has also raised its prices significantly. This flies in the face of conventional retailer practice: when a product is discontinued, they want to get rid of any trace of it ASAP, so if anything they put it on sale. WalMart has gone in the reverse direction, jacking the price up 50%.

I remember the very desirable Pioneer 420 DVD player being blown out at a very low price at the end of its run. I remember all brands of SVHS decks being blown out at very low prices.

However my Sony RDR-HX780 was the second last HDD/DVD recorder readily available in Canada (LG had the LG RH398H-M HDD/DVD recorder a while longer) Anyway shortly before the Sony RDR-HX780 was discontinued the major retailers (BB, FS, Visions,) were playing strange pricing games, fluctuating the price between a very high price of $499 to a very low price of $239. I think at the end they were going for $279. But I have to ask. If only one retailer sold the unit at the end of the run, would they blow it out at $239 or would they raise the last units to $499? With competition from 3 major retailers they had to go with the low price point but Wal-Mart has no competition selling the Magnavox so they can price it at a higher than normal price at the end of the unit's run.
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post #18 of 24 Old 05-05-2012, 02:16 PM
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Originally Posted by stevethebrain View Post

I don't understand the major price increase on Magnavox515?

My teory: it has become a cult object = expensive = (just like useless early iPods)
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post #19 of 24 Old 05-05-2012, 02:47 PM
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Well, J&R as of today has both the 513 ($169) and the 515 ($199) back in stock with free shipping.
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post #20 of 24 Old 05-05-2012, 11:42 PM
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Well, J&R as of today has both the 513 ($169) and the 515 ($199) back in stock with free shipping.

The 515 model is sold out.
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post #21 of 24 Old 05-06-2012, 06:48 AM - Thread Starter
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lot's of interesting reading and speculations.

I thought price escalation was due to Obama devalueating the US $.

really doe'snt make much bussiness sense to jack up the price of a now old model people in this market are not stupid about $. I think this price will fluctuate down especialley if folks don't buy it costs $ to store stuff.

I predick a 517 model HD version w/ 2TB HDD =s 210hours of HD 1300 hours of SD and capable of burning blue ray disc. I'd be all over that model.

edit just can't understand how rented Tivo boxs could ruin the HDD recorder market and basicalley reduce it to Magnavox a co. that is known for not the best eletronics available.

either way my softreset was sucsessfull and I have the PIP up and running again.
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post #22 of 24 Old 05-06-2012, 06:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevethebrain View Post

edit just can't understand how rented Tivo boxs could ruin the HDD recorder market and basicalley reduce it to Magnavox a co. that is known for not the best eletronics available.

Because the cable and sat companies were able to advertise the DVR as an easy way to record shows, playback, and delete them with minimal effort for a paltry $10-$20 extra a month. Most people don't want to burn anything to disc, so the DVR-ish capabilities of HDD/DVD recorders were overlooked. You got to remember the average American TV watcher only watches what is current (CSI, American Idol, stuff like that,) so saving things for posterity is for AVSers and a few other video enthusiasts, not enough to really sustain a multi-machine market.

And it's not Magnavox making them, that's just the front end brand. The company that actually makes them is Funai, who also makes most of the other brands of DVD recorders (Toshiba? Yeah, those are all Funai now with a Toshiba badge.)

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post #23 of 24 Old 05-06-2012, 07:31 PM
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Gee they really sell out quick. People are snapping these up thats for sure.
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post #24 of 24 Old 05-07-2012, 10:15 AM
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Well, for all the people who want to continue with DVDR's I hope you are right. However, I just can't shake the notion that this is it -- when the 515 is done that is it for the US DVDR market.

That would be the conventional wisdom, no question. It would also be what I would fully expect, that the 515 is really the end of the DVD recorder line. I can HOPE that I'm wrong about this though. It's a little strange that with no competition anywhere to be seen, there isn't one manufacturer willing to make a desired machine to fill a niche market, but it's all about the botom line. Can you make the price point low enough to allow for enough sales to make a profit?

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Gee they really sell out quick. People are snapping these up thats for sure.

Yeah, the 513s are still in stock, as of this moment at least, but the 515s show out of stock. I assume vrey quickly the web page will disappear. It usually does when there is no availailable stock for an extended time.

Luke

Evil is charming and beautiful. It makes you doubt yourself. It asks for one small compromise after another until it whittles you down, and it functions best when no one believes in it.-JOA
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