Magnavox 513 - HDMI Output Works; Line Outputs Don't - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 16 Old 05-03-2012, 11:59 AM - Thread Starter
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I picked up a Mag 513 at a yard sale the other day for $50. It had a dent in the back of the case but the owner said it worked. So I took a chance.

Turns out it ALMOST works. Even though the focal point of the dent (and it's a pretty good dent) is right where the HDMI slot is, that works. Both drives work fine. The line inputs, front and back, also work.

What doesn't work are the component output and the RCA outputs.

I opened the case and while I'm far from being an ace at these things, I can't see any obvious reasons why they don't work. No cracked boards or connections just dangling, stuff like that. The places where the lines enter the unit look fine as well. Nothing loose.

I was wondering if there was something obvious I might be missing in the setup of the unit. I have a 515 which I use in my family room using the HDMI output, but I've never set it for a line output. Are there settings that might be disabling the component/RCA outputs but not HDMI?

I'd like to use this unit on one of my older, non-HDMI equipped tvs, but right now I'm stumped.
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post #2 of 16 Old 05-03-2012, 12:21 PM
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See if Progressive Scan is ON. If so, turn off.

PS cuts off the Composite and S-Video outputs, not sure why your Component doesn't work, tho.


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post #3 of 16 Old 05-03-2012, 03:26 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks. I already tried that. Made no difference.
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post #4 of 16 Old 05-04-2012, 06:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Breyean View Post

Thanks. I already tried that. Made no difference.

With the money you saved, just add a converter cable for a work around.
The shock load from whatever caused that dent could have just broke a solder joint or even cracked the circuit board. Either way if you are not inclined to repair it yourself, the repair at a facility would probably be more than it's worth considering you already have $50 in it.

If you are so inclined to fix it, IC1401 is the video driver for those outputs. There are only two components on each line of output between the jack and IC1401, a capacitor and a resistor. Check that region of the board closely for cracks. The input for that driver comes from connector CN1101, which connects the AV CB to the DVD/HDD MAIN CB. Check all interconnects to sure they are firmly seated. You may get lucky and just have a loose one.
LL
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post #5 of 16 Old 05-04-2012, 07:28 AM
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Unfortunately a cable like that wouldn't work with the Magnavox(or any DVDR) you would need something more expensive like this or lower quality ones are a bit over $50.
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post #6 of 16 Old 05-04-2012, 07:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjeff View Post

Unfortunately a cable like that wouldn't work with the Magnavox(or any DVDR) you would need something more expensive like this or lower quality ones are a bit over $50.

I have never tried this, so excuse me for my ignorance. What is the essential difference in the devices?

EDIT: Thanks Google.
I didn't even think about the basic fundamentals of the signals! Duh!
1) HDMI is digital with pulses and component is analog with waveforms so an HDMI to 5 RCA Component Cable won t work 2) HDMI has 19 pins and component + audio has only 5 so an HDMI to 5 RCA Component Cable won t work 3) HDMI has the HDCP copy protection signal whereas there is no component equivalent so an HDMI to 5 RCA Component Cable won t work 4) A cable is a passive device made up of 2 connectors, solder and wires. It cannot convert one digital signal into another analog signal so an HDMI to 5 RCA Component Cable won t work **Don t buy an HDMI to 5 RCA Component Cable from anyone as it doesn t work! Read more: http://www.hdtvsupply.com/hdmi-to-5r...#ixzz1Yc75tHwf
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post #7 of 16 Old 05-04-2012, 07:56 AM
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A cable like that is made for specific devices, usually a PC card or something else that lets you internally select the format coming out of the HDMI jack. The tip off is what is said in the description of this cable:
Please kindly note: your video output device must support both analog and digital signal conversion and output function. Please consult with your video output device's user manual for more information.
DVDRs don't have such functions. A box like the one I linked to actually converts the digital HDMI to analog component, something that requires circuits and external power which helps explain the higher cost.
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post #8 of 16 Old 05-04-2012, 08:42 AM
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Thanks jjeff, sometimes it's hard to see the forest for the trees!
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post #9 of 16 Old 05-04-2012, 11:40 AM - Thread Starter
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Interesting comments.

In short, the HDMI output works, but my only tv with HDMI already has a 515 attached. I had wanted to use this 513 with an older tv.

I see HDMI to RCA converters on EBAY. Would one of those let me use the HDMI output from the 513 and into an RCA line input on the tv?
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post #10 of 16 Old 05-04-2012, 02:07 PM
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Yes any HDMI to S-video or composite converter box should work for you. You might want to check out this thread I started a while ago when I got a great deal($30) for such a converter on a tip from tomwil. Note the sub $100 converters aren't exactly high quality output but they are perfectly fine for smaller LCDs as well as old analog TVs.
It it were me I'd take your newest Maggy and hook it to your TV with the HDMI input and use your older one to your analog TV, of course you may like to have your nicer 515 to your better TV which is also understandable.
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post #11 of 16 Old 05-04-2012, 03:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Breyean View Post

I picked up a Mag 513 at a yard sale the other day for $50. It had a dent in the back of the case but the owner said it worked. So I took a chance.

Turns out it ALMOST works. Even though the focal point of the dent (and it's a pretty good dent) is right where the HDMI slot is, that works. Both drives work fine. The line inputs, front and back, also work.

What doesn't work are the component output and the RCA outputs.

I opened the case and while I'm far from being an ace at these things, I can't see any obvious reasons why they don't work. No cracked boards or connections just dangling, stuff like that. The places where the lines enter the unit look fine as well. Nothing loose.

I was wondering if there was something obvious I might be missing in the setup of the unit. I have a 515 which I use in my family room using the HDMI output, but I've never set it for a line output. Are there settings that might be disabling the component/RCA outputs but not HDMI?

I'd like to use this unit on one of my older, non-HDMI equipped tvs, but right now I'm stumped.


Hi Breyean -

if there's a dent in the back near the HDMI connector, chances are it took a pretty good hit; a hit sufficient enough to dislodge a ribbon cable...

check all of these carefully...

on the RCA outputs, does the Audio work or are both audio and video dead ?

i know i'm probably stating the obvious, but with no input - no output....

also, try hitting the reset button on the main AV board... if the brains inside are corrupt, remember that this thing switches paths ' electronically ' , and something corrupt in the machine's memory COULD be causing havoc ...

personally, i would not go out and buy adapt-o-kits until i exhausted all of the possibilities...

i'm assuming that your HDMI output works, as that is how you are being able to fiddle with the thing... check the HDMI config in the machine as well. i'm not familiar enough with this machine's personality when connected via HDMI, but it's feasible that the options in the HDMI config might simply shut down the analog side.

rgds,
ron g
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post #12 of 16 Old 05-04-2012, 04:31 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rkg22 View Post

Hi Breyean -

if there's a dent in the back near the HDMI connector, chances are it took a pretty good hit; a hit sufficient enough to dislodge a ribbon cable...

check all of these carefully...

on the RCA outputs, does the Audio work or are both audio and video dead ?

i know i'm probably stating the obvious, but with no input - no output....

also, try hitting the reset button on the main AV board... if the brains inside are corrupt, remember that this thing switches paths ' electronically ' , and something corrupt in the machine's memory COULD be causing havoc ...

personally, i would not go out and buy adapt-o-kits until i exhausted all of the possibilities...

i'm assuming that your HDMI output works, as that is how you are being able to fiddle with the thing... check the HDMI config in the machine as well. i'm not familiar enough with this machine's personality when connected via HDMI, but it's feasible that the options in the HDMI config might simply shut down the analog side.

rgds,
ron g

First, JJEF, I could just replace the 515 with this, but I was hoping to avoid the hassle as the 515 is on a rack, buried under several other units with cables all over the place, in a not very convenient spot to work in.

Ron, the audio is out as well as the video using the RCA or component outputs.

Both the RF input as well as the two RCA inputs work fine. Which is weird because on the back of the unit, from left to right as you look at it, there is the RF input (working), to its right RCA input (working), SVHS input (working); next is RCA output (not working); then component output (not working); then SVHS output (not working). The HDMI port is exactly in the center of the rear panel, and right where the case was dented (it looks like a hammer was taken to it, it's that deep). But it works! Then the power supply is way to the right and it works, fan spinning and everything.

I tried the reset switch on the main board. It reset, but when I tried it again, still the same results.

I played with the HDMI settings yesterday. Made no difference.

The only thing I can think of, is the HDMI port goes into a board that is above and separate from the main board. How that didn't crack and how it still works is beyond me since that's where the brunt of the damage is.

But the other inputs and outputs all go directly to the main board. So even though I can't see anything, something must have gotten damaged on it that knocked out the RCA and component outputs, but somehow did not damage the RCA inputs.

I've been having some bad luck recently. I had to return a Panny E59 to J&R because it came damaged; my TVGOS situation makes me laugh and cry at the same time (since it works on some Pannys and not others in the same room). Now this. ALMOST works fine, but the one thing I wanted it to do so I could use it with an old tv, it can't.

Oh well.
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post #13 of 16 Old 05-04-2012, 11:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Breyean View Post

First, JJEF, I could just replace the 515 with this, but I was hoping to avoid the hassle as the 515 is on a rack, buried under several other units with cables all over the place, in a not very convenient spot to work in.

Ron, the audio is out as well as the video using the RCA or component outputs.

Both the RF input as well as the two RCA inputs work fine. Which is weird because on the back of the unit, from left to right as you look at it, there is the RF input (working), to its right RCA input (working), SVHS input (working); next is RCA output (not working); then component output (not working); then SVHS output (not working). The HDMI port is exactly in the center of the rear panel, and right where the case was dented (it looks like a hammer was taken to it, it's that deep). But it works! Then the power supply is way to the right and it works, fan spinning and everything.

I tried the reset switch on the main board. It reset, but when I tried it again, still the same results.

I played with the HDMI settings yesterday. Made no difference.

The only thing I can think of, is the HDMI port goes into a board that is above and separate from the main board. How that didn't crack and how it still works is beyond me since that's where the brunt of the damage is.

But the other inputs and outputs all go directly to the main board. So even though I can't see anything, something must have gotten damaged on it that knocked out the RCA and component outputs, but somehow did not damage the RCA inputs.

I've been having some bad luck recently. I had to return a Panny E59 to J&R because it came damaged; my TVGOS situation makes me laugh and cry at the same time (since it works on some Pannys and not others in the same room). Now this. ALMOST works fine, but the one thing I wanted it to do so I could use it with an old tv, it can't.

Oh well.


hang tight, breyean... let me review svc manual and possibly the main board on my 513 to see if anything looks obvious enough to have been damaged...

do try to remove, clean, and reseat ribbons going to the motherboard, including the ribbon that goes from power supply to motherboard..

those ribbons are soldered on the underside of the board, but are connectorized ( i believe ) on their other ends... more in a bit...

rgds,
ron g
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post #14 of 16 Old 05-04-2012, 11:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Breyean View Post

First, JJEF, I could just replace the 515 with this, but I was hoping to avoid the hassle as the 515 is on a rack, buried under several other units with cables all over the place, in a not very convenient spot to work in.

Ron, the audio is out as well as the video using the RCA or component outputs.

Both the RF input as well as the two RCA inputs work fine. Which is weird because on the back of the unit, from left to right as you look at it, there is the RF input (working), to its right RCA input (working), SVHS input (working); next is RCA output (not working); then component output (not working); then SVHS output (not working). The HDMI port is exactly in the center of the rear panel, and right where the case was dented (it looks like a hammer was taken to it, it's that deep). But it works! Then the power supply is way to the right and it works, fan spinning and everything.

I tried the reset switch on the main board. It reset, but when I tried it again, still the same results.

I played with the HDMI settings yesterday. Made no difference.

The only thing I can think of, is the HDMI port goes into a board that is above and separate from the main board. How that didn't crack and how it still works is beyond me since that's where the brunt of the damage is.

But the other inputs and outputs all go directly to the main board. So even though I can't see anything, something must have gotten damaged on it that knocked out the RCA and component outputs, but somehow did not damage the RCA inputs.

I've been having some bad luck recently. I had to return a Panny E59 to J&R because it came damaged; my TVGOS situation makes me laugh and cry at the same time (since it works on some Pannys and not others in the same room). Now this. ALMOST works fine, but the one thing I wanted it to do so I could use it with an old tv, it can't.

Oh well.


hi breyean...

ok, after a short review of the schematics, and if i had to make a guess, i would be suspicious of the ribbon connecting the power supply board to the motherboard...

the power supply provides several supply voltages that blossom out all over the place. they include +12v, +5v, +33v, +2.8v...

further, these supply voltages are carried on several connections for each...
eg, +5v is on maybe 4 or 5 pins of the power connector, as is +12v, etc...

there are other voltages used, but these are regulated from the above...
for example, there is an ' audio +10v ' being supplied by either the +12v or the +33v supply buss...

input sections appear to be separate from output sections from the power supply standpoint, so it is possible that analog inputs would work, while analog outputs might not work.

anyway, without getting too deep, here, if there is a bad connection on any of the +5v or +12v connection points on that ribbon, it's likely that your analog outputs ( audio & video, composite and component ) would be affected together...

soooooooo, 1st thing to check is that fat ribbon going from power supply board to AV board ( motherboard ) ...

pull the ribbon, inspect, clean contacts with a bit of alcohol, then carefully re-seat. as i recall, this particular ribbon is NOT captive, ie, there is no flip down piece that locks it in place and it's held in place simply by friction...

if you happen to have a volt meter, you might try to read ( carefully ) the supply voltages at the AV ( motherboard ) end of things... and there are also some jumpers in various places on the AV ( motherboard ) that are accessible from the top of the board whih you can also measure, and most of these are labeled as to what their voltages are supposed to be.

give it a whirl... hopefully, your trouble will be an isolated +5v or +12v bad connection.... given the probability that the thing has been whacked, i can see there being a bad connection of this type, with LESS liklihood that the board was actually damaged...

rgds,
ron g
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post #15 of 16 Old 05-05-2012, 02:29 PM
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Originally Posted by rkg22 View Post

hi breyean...

ok, after a short review of the schematics, and if i had to make a guess, i would be suspicious of the ribbon connecting the power supply board to the motherboard...

So... he only will need to replace the ribbon, right?
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post #16 of 16 Old 05-05-2012, 05:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by profhat View Post

So... he only will need to replace the ribbon, right?

well not necessarily... if there's a bad connection via the ribbon, i'm hoping it might be at the socket, itself, due to jossling from the hit...

determining if the ribbon is at fault ( not likely other than bad connection ) requires a look-see with a volt meter to measure voltage at each of the pins at the connector...

it makes sense that he would have several systems ( analog audio, analog video, etc ) not working due to something rudimentary like lack of a primary power supply....

a board break could have the same issues, but not too likely to knock out both audio and video... more likely to cause one or the other to fail...

the reason the HDMI is working is because it uses none of the analog stuff related to the analog outputs on the AV board.... this means that required power is making it to the main PCB in general, and specifically to the video and audio related componentry on ( or fed via other cables ) ...

with everything else working more or less properly, i have to believe there is a something fundamental, like a power run, not making it somewhere on the board either due to a bad connection or a foil break... in either of these cases ( i know it's not for non-techs ) the fix can be pretty simple if it can be found.

rgds,
ron g
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