When I finalize a DVD on my MDR 513 it still doesn't play on other DVD players - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 38 Old 05-21-2012, 08:30 AM - Thread Starter
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Hi,
I just got a Mag. MDR 513h/f7 from Walmart. I got the unit to replace my very old Panasonic. I use the unit to record PPV movies off of my cable set top box and it is working fine. However when I finalize a DVD recording so that it can be played back on other peoples DVD players I am being told that the DVD does not play on their player. I finalized the newly recorded DVD as per the instructions in the owners manual. Is there a reason why the discs are not payable on other DVD players?
Any help or suggestions will be greatly appreciated.
Thanks
Stu
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post #2 of 38 Old 05-21-2012, 08:36 AM
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What type of disc (+/-R) and what brand?


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post #3 of 38 Old 05-21-2012, 08:37 AM
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What format and brand of blank DVDs are you using? Very old DVD players will not play the + format or RW discs at all. Are the discs playing in any DVD players that you might have? not just the recorder.
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post #4 of 38 Old 05-21-2012, 11:46 AM - Thread Starter
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I tried using DVD+RW (Memorex) and DVD+R (Memorex). They play fine on the Magnovox 513 however they do not play on any of my friends or relatives DVD players.
I don't think it is the DVD players that these people are using as they were able to play DVD's that I recorded with my old Panasonic DVR.
I think I must be doing something wrong with the finalizing of the recording. Maybe I am missing a step of some kind.
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post #5 of 38 Old 05-21-2012, 01:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unclestu2u View Post

I tried using DVD+RW (Memorex) and DVD+R (Memorex).

Again do you have a DVD "player" to try them on? Your 513 will play any disc it records, finalized or not. Also your Panasonic only records to - format discs, bringing me back to my first point that your relatives may have players that don't support the + format.
Memorex is the absolute worse DVDs to use but if you've tried several I don't think it's that.
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post #6 of 38 Old 05-21-2012, 01:52 PM
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I note the OP says the discs are finalized, but I wonder just how were they finalized?

Did the OP go thru the menu and choose "Disc Edit" to finalize the discs, or just what WAS done?

I've used Memorex discs on occasion, and they work fine.
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post #7 of 38 Old 05-21-2012, 05:19 PM - Thread Starter
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The discs were finalized in this manner.
From the set up menue I selected "disc edit" from "disc edit" I than selected "Auto Finalize" [i] than selected "End of timer recording" I than selected "on" for "end of timer recording"
I chose this method so that I did not forget to finalize the disc and it would be finalized upon completion of the recording.
I do see in the manual that it says that there is no need to finalize DVD+RW discs. Does that mean that they will play on other machines anyway without finalizing?
Would I be better off just manually finalizing the disc after recording it as opposed to using "auto finalize"?
Thanks
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post #8 of 38 Old 05-21-2012, 05:21 PM - Thread Starter
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Also please note that after the discs were supposedly finalized I noticed thsat I was unable to overwrite on them leading me to think that they were in fact finalized.
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post #9 of 38 Old 05-21-2012, 05:24 PM
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Highlight the 1st title on the disc and arrow up. There you'll see text that includes the Finalize status, just to be sure it actually happened.

If your other players that wouldn't play the disc were older Panasonics, Pioneers, etc., they might not play +R/+RW discs whether finalized or not. (+RW disc don't need finalizing, but the player must be able to play the + format.)


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post #10 of 38 Old 05-21-2012, 05:37 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjeff View Post

Again do you have a DVD "player" to try them on? Your 513 will play any disc it records, finalized or not. Also your Panasonic only records to - format discs, bringing me back to my first point that your relatives may have players that don't support the + format.
Memorex is the absolute worse DVDs to use but if you've tried se
veral I don't think it's that.


I am not that familiar with the different fo rmats of the DVD discs. As I would want to make copies that are playable on the average DVD player, what would be the most compatable format to use?
Right now I have given a finalized copy of the same DVD to three different people with three different DVD players and not one of them could play back the dvd.
I don't have another DVD player to test it out on other than the Magnovox 513 which I know plays them back.
I can play DVD's on my computer. Would trying to play back a finalized dvd on my computer be a good test. I know that I can watch a finalized DVD that was recorded on my old Panasonic because I just watched The Devil Wears Prada which was recorded and finalized on my old Panasonic.

Thanks again for all of your help
Stu
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post #11 of 38 Old 05-21-2012, 05:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unclestu2u View Post

The discs were finalized in this manner.
From the set up menue I selected "disc edit" from "disc edit" I than selected "Auto Finalize" [i] than selected "End of timer recording" I than selected "on" for "end of timer recording"
I chose this method so that I did not forget to finalize the disc and it would be finalized upon completion of the recording...

Would I be better off just manually finalizing the disc after recording it as opposed to using "auto finalize"?
Thanks

For more flexibility record directly to the hard drive. After that one may edit/divide the hard drive recordings (if desired) and then high-speed dub the material to DVD(s). This saves wear and tear to the laser assembly.

From hard drive recordings I assemble DVDs of related material and then finalize once the DVD is complete. Since the original recordings remain on the hard drive I leave them in place for later use in different compilations or for viewing from the hard drive. Later I delete the recordings when I no longer need or want them.

"A ROSE BY ANY OTHER NAME WILL SMELL AS SWEET. BUT IT DOES NOT FOLLOW THAT WHATEVER WE CHOOSE TO CALL A ROSE WILL POSSESS THE ROSE'S FRAGRANCE."

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post #12 of 38 Old 05-21-2012, 06:02 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DigaDo View Post

For more flexibility record directly to the hard drive. After that one may edit/divide the hard drive recordings (if desired) and then high-speed dub the material to DVD(s). This saves wear and tear to the laser assembly.

From hard drive recordings I assemble DVDs of related material and then finalize once the DVD is complete. Since the original recordings remain on the hard drive I leave them in place for later use in different compilations or for viewing from the hard drive. Later I delete the recordings when I no longer need or want them.

That sounds like a great idea Digado and I will keepthat in mind for the future.
Do you have any clue as to why these supposedly finalized discs are not playing on anyone elses player?
Stu
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post #13 of 38 Old 05-21-2012, 07:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unclestu2u View Post

That sounds like a great idea Digado and I will keepthat in mind for the future.
Do you have any clue as to why these supposedly finalized discs are not playing on anyone elses player?
Stu

I write from some experience. I currently have ten HDD/DVD Recorders and five direct-to-DVD Recorders set up for daily use. My home-recorded archive now has around 12,000 DVDs.

I never record directly to DVDs with my HDD/DVD recorders. My original recordings are always recorded to the hard drives. RW discs are for temporary storage only. Your Magnavox's hard drive is for temporary storage so use of RW discs is unnecessary.

Now to address your question:

1-As others have mentioned the +R formats might not be compatible with older DVD players or recorders. For that and other reasons I use Taiyo Yuden 8x Premium Line DVD-R discs in all my recorders:

http://www.supermediastore.com/produ...ape-wrap-100pk

2-The discs are not finalized. Reinsert the disc into your Magnavox and let the disc fully load. Then go to the General Settings menu and select Disc Edit. Then select Finalize and confirm by pressing OK. Finalization takes two to three minutes.

Note: In order to prolong the useful life of laser assemblies I don't use 16x discs in my stand-alone recorders. 16X discs are suitable for use in computers and duplicators, not stand-alone recorders.

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post #14 of 38 Old 05-21-2012, 07:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wajo View Post

Highlight the 1st title on the disc and arrow up. There you'll see text that includes the Finalize status, just to be sure it actually happened.

If your other players that wouldn't play the disc were older Panasonics, Pioneers, etc., they might not play +R/+RW discs whether finalized or not. (+RW disc don't need finalizing, but the player must be able to play the + format.)

I do notice that Wajo's post wasn't replied to by the OP.

I'll add my voice to his and insist the OP go to the menu of one of the DVDs involved, and from the first menu page, arrow up.

Again, the status of the disc (finalized or not) will be displayed.

Please do this before posting here again. This was the most simple way of checking out the discs and it was ignored.
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post #15 of 38 Old 05-21-2012, 07:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DigaDo View Post

...Note: In order to prolong the useful life of laser assemblies I don't use 16x discs in my stand-alone recorders. 16X discs are suitable for use in computers and duplicators, not stand-alone recorders.

Dig-

Gotta ask about this. I've never used 16x discs, but for future reference, what damage can it do to the DVD burner? Does it force the burner to spin faster than it normally would or something?
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post #16 of 38 Old 05-21-2012, 08:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gastrof View Post

Dig-

Gotta ask about this. I've never used 16x discs, but for future reference, what damage can it do to the DVD burner? Does it force the burner to spin faster than it normally would or something?

When writing to 16x DVDs the laser has to operate at a much higher current level than when writing to 8x DVDs. Wajo addresses this here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...postcount=9609

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post #17 of 38 Old 05-21-2012, 09:01 PM
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Writing 16x discs at 6x speed (as most stand alones do) takes no more power than writing a 8x disc at 6x speed. Writing 16x discs only takes more power when writing them at 16x speed. As shown on the graph from T-Y.


Direct link to the T-Y spec sheet explaining that a 8x or 16x disc takes the same amount of laser power if burned at the same speed. Even at 1x speed - a 8x disc and a 16x disc will take the same amount of laser power.

http://ds.yuden.co.jp/Detail/downloa.../media02_e.pdf
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post #18 of 38 Old 05-21-2012, 10:37 PM
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The issue of media speed ratings gets muddied by the companion issue of overall media quality: some 16x media is just crappy media, period, which is why it causes problems (not necessarily because its 16x). Back when 8x was the standard, there was crappy 8x media, too. But today, the only 8x media you can easily buy is "premium" TY/JVC and Verbatim, and those two are more consistently and reliably produced than the more widespread 16x commodity brands. The current "quality" reputation of the brand is more important than 16x vs 8x. Choosing 8x may simply up your odds of success because no "junk factory" bothers making crappy 8x media anymore: there's no mass market for it. Conversely, the few brands that still make 8x also make the best 16x.
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post #19 of 38 Old 05-22-2012, 12:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CitiBear View Post

The issue of media speed ratings gets muddied by the companion issue of overall media quality: some 16x media is just crappy media, period, which is why it causes problems (not necessarily because its 16x). Back when 8x was the standard, there was crappy 8x media, too. But today, the only 8x media you can easily buy is "premium" TY/JVC and Verbatim, and those two are more consistently and reliably produced than the more widespread 16x commodity brands. The current "quality" reputation of the brand is more important than 16x vs 8x. Choosing 8x may simply up your odds of success because no "junk factory" bothers making crappy 8x media anymore: there's no mass market for it. Conversely, the few brands that still make 8x also make the best 16x.


i have no real knowledge about the effects of various speed ratings for DVDs, however, i surmize that super-eye's comment is quite correct....

for example, my philips 3576 machines can deal with whatever i seem to give them, however, the burner is spec'd at 4x max... so regardless of what the DVDs can support, the burner is going to burn at 4x max, and likely use close to, if not the same power level, as the various DVDs out there are ( i think ) downward compatible, allowing lesser burners to continue to use the media...

my mag 513 burner is spec'd at 8x, so likewise, it will not burn any faster by using 16x media, as this exceeds the capability of the drive, itself...

my older panny e95 needed to have a firmware update to ' support ' 16x media, but the burner in that is likely no better than 4x, although it might be 8x, since it will burn a full disc faster than the philips 3576's... in any case, i'm pretty sure that the burner hardware in that one would not be capable of 16x, and panasonic's ' firmware update ' most likely just added a table entry supporting the media type so it would be recognized as valid media...

rgds,\\
ron g
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post #20 of 38 Old 05-22-2012, 12:48 AM
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Same goes for me. My Pio DVDRs burn 8x TYs just as fast as 16x Verbs, so I buy 8x TYs, mostly.
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post #21 of 38 Old 05-22-2012, 06:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CitiBear View Post

The issue of media speed ratings gets muddied by the companion issue of overall media quality: some 16x media is just crappy media, period, which is why it causes problems (not necessarily because its 16x).

You are correct, of course, about the disparity in DVD-R media quality, but it is even more complicated than that. These issues get brought up every time the 8x vs. 16x debate rekindles.

We must keep in mind, and you have also made the point, that all media sold is designed for PC burner use and not for the pitiful burners they put in DVDR's. I don't think PC burners slower than 16X are even made any more so it is no surprise that retail media is all 16X. I do all my burning on a PC which means I get to see all the media info on the blank DVD-R/DL or BD-R/RE including allowed write strategies. I see that a lot of 16X media does not have a write strategy below 8X which means if you are using an older DVDR with a 4X or slower burner, it is using a built-in generic write strategy for its max burn speed. That generic write strategy is old and may be all wrong for modern 16X media which may be the cause of many problems and is unrelated to the quality of the disk. I believe the Verbatim 16X DVD-R have write strategies as low as 1X which, no doubt, contributes to their reputation of being good media for DVD recorders. As for the other media, their lack of a write strategy below 8X may be the source of the "rule of thumb" not to burn media at less than 1/2 the rated speed.

The difference in full-disk burn-time for 16X media vs. 8x media is only a couple minutes and not half the 8X time. That is because 16X media is not really burned at 16X until the very end of a full disk burn. Whereas 8x and below is burned with CLV, 16X is burned with a CAV strategy -- the drive cranks up to constant speed and stays there for the whole burn; the write speed starts out at 4-6X at the hub and gradually increases, reaching 16X at the outer rim of the disk. I find that a 16X burn is actually quite smooth and given the choice I would rather burn a disk at 16X vs 8X.

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CAV = constant angular velocity

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post #22 of 38 Old 05-22-2012, 09:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelson View Post

I do all my burning on a PC which means I get to see all the media info on the blank DVD-R/DL or BD-R/RE including allowed write strategies. I see that a lot of 16X media does not have a write strategy below 8X which means if you are using an older DVDR with a 4X or slower burner, it is using a built-in generic write strategy for its max burn speed. That generic write strategy is old and may be all wrong for modern 16X media which may be the cause of many problems and is unrelated to the quality of the disk.

THANK YOU for that confirmation of what I've long said was a big part of the recorder burn failure issue: recent 16x media dropped write support for drives with actual burn speeds slower than 8x. Most older DVD/HDD recorders top out at 4x-6x, and of course the typical DVD/VHS is running at a 1x snails pace. The first wave of 16x media made back when the individual brands like TDK and Sony still had their own factories and dyes was write-compatible down to 1x. But the second wave of "all the big brands are just shell names for cheap OEM media" dropped integral write support for slower burning. It often works anyway, because DVD is DVD at a basic level, but the inflexible drives built into many DVD recorders can have major trouble with it.

This is why that oft-quoted TY laser power data sheet means everything and nothing at the same time: technically correct, but doesn't preclude or explain opposing practical experience. Also, TY is one of the few remaining mfrs that still does have integral write support backwards-compatible down to 1x, so users of TY 16x will often have experience that correlates with that white paper. Someone loading 16x-oiptimized TDK, Memorex or Maxell into a 2005 or 2006 recorder may get far different, less pleasant results.
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post #23 of 38 Old 05-22-2012, 10:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gastrof View Post

I do notice that Wajo's post wasn't replied to by the OP.

I'll add my voice to his and insist the OP go to the menu of one of the DVDs involved, and from the first menu page, arrow up.

Again, the status of the disc (finalized or not) will be displayed.

This was the most simple way of checking out the discs and it was ignored.

Until unclestu2u does this, and confirms whether the DVDs in question have been truly finalized, none of us can really offer practical advice. The Magnavox finalizing system can be a little obtuse sometimes: when you think you have it set, it really isnt (also the "make discs compatible" setting seems to have some bearing on finalization). If the discs are unfinalized, that would go a long way to explain why three different DVD players owned by three different friends/relatives all fail to play them. I can accept one of the three being very old and incompatible with DVD+R media, but all three? That's a bit of a stretch, unless each person is still using a circa-1998 DVD player. Pretty much any player sold since 2002 will play both + and - DVD media.

If the problem DVDs are confirmed as finalized, the issue may be that the burn quality is not good. Memorex has about the worst reputation for overall burn quality, the Magnavox itself can read them because it burned them and can compensate, but other players cannot handle the poor burn. Try another brand of blank DVD, perhaps Verbatim DVD-R. If you get the same compatibility issue as Memorex, you may have a problem in the Magnavox 513 itself. There have been scattered reports here of a (rare) Magnavox defect causing unplayable DVDs. The solution is to exchange the unit while you still have a return privilege with the dealer.
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post #24 of 38 Old 05-22-2012, 10:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CitiBear View Post

Until unclestu2u does this, and confirms whether the DVDs in question have been truly finalized, none of us can really offer practical advice. The Magnavox finalizing system can be a little obtuse sometimes: when you think you have it set, it really isnt (also the "make discs compatible" setting seems to have some bearing on finalization). If the discs are unfinalized, that would go a long way to explain why three different DVD players owned by three different friends/relatives all fail to play them. I can accept one of the three being very old and incompatible with DVD+R media, but all three? That's a bit of a stretch, unless each person is still using a circa-1998 DVD player. Pretty much any player sold since 2002 will play both + and - DVD media.

If the problem DVDs are confirmed as finalized, the issue may be that the burn quality is not good. Memorex has about the worst reputation for overall burn quality, the Magnavox itself can read them because it burned them and can compensate, but other players cannot handle the poor burn. Try another brand of blank DVD, perhaps Verbatim DVD-R. If you get the same compatibility issue as Memorex, you may have a problem in the Magnavox 513 itself. There have been scattered reports here of a (rare) Magnavox defect causing unplayable DVDs. The solution is to exchange the unit while you still have a return privilege with the dealer.


hi folks....

i vote for something more simple.... the failing DVD players are not compatible with +R media... the +R format, with all its advantages, is newer and less supported overall by older players...

my guess is that our friend who is now using +R media, probably used -R media in the past with success, only to find that the friends' players are just old enough to not support +R media...

it would help for him to post the makes/models of the failing players so we can check out their specs...

rgds,
ron g
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post #25 of 38 Old 05-22-2012, 03:26 PM
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Kelson.
Can you tell me what brands no longer support a fall-back speed to 1x or atleast 4x? Not that I recommend low standard blank media but I have tried newer Maxell and Fuji which are either CMC or Ritek and everyone I tried falls back to 4x no problem. In fact they claim to burn realtime 1x no problem and do. I have tried Sony (with real Sony ID) and again no problem falling back. Of course CAV strategy doesn’t mean much if the burner is burning a 16x disc at 6x speed and it means absolutely nothing if you burn a 16x disk in real-time as the fall-back speed will ignore CAV. Of course your stand-alone must support 16x disc falling back but all stand-alones built after 2005 do and many stand-alones build prior to 16x media will update firmware.

So just to confirm fall-back speeds, I went on the manufactures sites and indeed they confirm my findings.

Maxell site confirms 1x to 16x
http://www.maxellcanada.com/computer...-R+General+Use

Fuji confirms 1x to 16x right on the picture on their site
http://www.fujifilm.ca/products/opti...d-r/index.html
Attachment 247318

Sony also confirms this.

I’m not telling anyone to use cheap media, nor am I telling anyone to quit using good 8x media that works for them. But I like to deal with facts and if good 16x media like Verbatim AZO works for you and you have cheap and easy guaranteed access to it – as I do – please don’t tell us that we’re prematurely burning out our lasers or risking bad burns by doing so.

So kelson please point out which blank media will not fall-back to real-time or at least 4x?
LL
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post #26 of 38 Old 05-22-2012, 04:24 PM
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I just did a check of my media, including several cheap spindles "for PC use only" and on the outside packaging they all listed 1-16x.
I checked a Sony(RITEK) spindle, HP(CMC), TDK(CMC), Magnavox(CMC) and Verbatim Life(CMC) spindle.
Note when I pull up any of my 16x DVDs(including 16x Verbatim AZO) ImgBurn shows Supported Write Speeds: 4x, 6x, 8x, 12x, 16x and later in the info screen it says:
Performance (Write Speed):
Descriptor 1...
-> B0: 0x00, B1: 0x00, B2: 0x00, B3: 0x00
-> EL: 2297887 (0x0023101F)
-> RS: 22,160 KB/s (16x) - WS: 5,540 KB/s (4x)
Descriptor 2...
-> B0: 0x00, B1: 0x00, B2: 0x00, B3: 0x00
-> EL: 2297887 (0x0023101F)
-> RS: 22,160 KB/s (16x) - WS: 8,310 KB/s (6x)
Descriptor 3...
-> B0: 0x00, B1: 0x00, B2: 0x00, B3: 0x00
-> EL: 2297887 (0x0023101F)
-> RS: 22,160 KB/s (16x) - WS: 11,080 KB/s (8x)
Descriptor 4...
-> B0: 0x08, B1: 0x00, B2: 0x00, B3: 0x00
-> EL: 2297887 (0x0023101F)
-> RS: 22,160 KB/s (16x) - WS: 16,620 KB/s (12x)
Descriptor 5...
-> B0: 0x08, B1: 0x00, B2: 0x00, B3: 0x00
-> EL: 2297887 (0x0023101F)
-> RS: 22,160 KB/s (16x) - WS: 22,160 KB/s (16x)


Not sure what this all means, just providing data points
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post #27 of 38 Old 05-22-2012, 06:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Super Eye View Post

Kelson.
Can you tell me what brands no longer support a fall-back speed to 1x or atleast 4x? Not that I recommend low standard blank media but I have tried newer Maxell and Fuji which are either CMC or Ritek and everyone I tried falls back to 4x no problem.

When you say supports "fall-back" to 1X or 4X I presume you mean the blank DVD-R has a 1X or 4X write strategy listed in its media info on the disk. The package can list 1X-16X because the burner will burn the disk at whatever speed you tell it to. So I can tell ImgBurn to burn any 16X disk I put in the drive at 1X and it will do so, but if a write strategy for 1X is not in the disk's media-info, the burner will use a default write strategy for that speed. So yes, the package or website can say the disk can be burned at any speed because any disk can "fall-back" and be burned at 1X, but if the 1X strategy is not on the disk, the default 1X strategy in the burner firmware is used. If the burner is old, that strategy may not be good for a modern 16X DVD-R. CAV is only used for 16X burns. Burning a 16X disk at 8X is usually CLV, unless the write strategy on the disk says CAV.

I have been using 16X for give-aways. I've used Ritek and a couple house brands on sale -- all of which only went down to 8X. I currently have a spindle of Sony 16X DVD-R with media ID = SONY16D1 (I guess that means real Sony's). These list supported write speeds of 16X, 12X & 8X -- no lower. Here is the info window output from ImgBurn:

@jjeff
It is tempting to say the stuff listed at the end is the actual code for the write strategies. But I really don't know what it is.

Quote:
HL-DT-ST DVDRWBD CH20N A201 (ATAPI)
Current Profile: DVD-R

Disc Information:
Status: Empty
State of Last Session: Empty
Erasable: No
Free Sectors: 2,297,888
Free Space: 4,706,074,624 bytes
Free Time: 510:40:38 (MM:SS:FF)
Next Writable Address: 0
MID: SONY16D1
Supported Write Speeds: 8x, 12x, 16x

Pre-recorded Information:
Manufacturer ID: SONY16D1

Physical Format Information (Last Recorded):
Disc ID: 0@P-!-00
Book Type: DVD-R
Part Version: 5
Disc Size: 120mm
Maximum Read Rate: Not Specified
Number of Layers: 1
Track Path: Parallel Track Path (PTP)
Linear Density: 0.267 um/bit
Track Density: 0.74 um/track
First Physical Sector of Data Area: 196,608
Last Physical Sector of Data Area: 2,495,103
Last Physical Sector in Layer 0: 0

Performance (Write Speed):
Descriptor 1...
-> B0: 0x02, B1: 0x00, B2: 0x00, B3: 0x00
-> EL: 2298495 (0x0023127F)
-> RS: 22,180 KB/s (16x) - WS: 11,080 KB/s (8x)
Descriptor 2...
-> B0: 0x02, B1: 0x00, B2: 0x00, B3: 0x00
-> EL: 2298495 (0x0023127F)
-> RS: 22,180 KB/s (16x) - WS: 16,620 KB/s (12x)
Descriptor 3...
-> B0: 0x02, B1: 0x00, B2: 0x00, B3: 0x00
-> EL: 2298495 (0x0023127F)
-> RS: 22,180 KB/s (16x) - WS: 22,160 KB/s (16x)

Quote:
please don’t tell us that we’re prematurely burning out our lasers or risking bad burns by doing so.

I never said you would burn out your laser -- I've never burned out a laser in a PC burner. I never said you were guaranteed a bad burn by not burning at a supported write speed. I did say that problems people have had burning 16X media in older DVDR's could be a result of burning at a non-supported write speed. Those things are put on the disk for a reason.

- kelson h

The bitterness of poor quality lasts long after the sweetness of the low price is forgotten . . . life is too short to drink bad wine

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post #28 of 38 Old 05-22-2012, 07:47 PM
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Kelson,
That premature laser comment wasn’t meant at you. I now realize that it looks like it was as most of that post was. Sorry about that.

As to the Sony MID: SONY16D1 that is strange because I have fairly new Sony 16D1 discs and they report a 4x strategy just fine. Tested on my LG with ImageBur and Nero. Burned on my RDR-HX780 just fine. Funny because those Sony 16D1 are rated third best behind 1) Verb AZO and 2) T-Y.

Here is the ImageBurn Data
Quote:
HL-DT-ST DVD-RAM GH22NP20 1.04 (ATA)
Current Profile: DVD-R

Disc Information:
Status: Complete
State of Last Session: Complete
Erasable: No
Sessions: 1
Sectors: 1,748,800
Size: 3,581,542,400 bytes
Time: 388:39:25 (MM:SS:FF)
MID: SONY16D1
Supported Write Speeds: 4x, 8x, 12x, 16x, 20x


TOC Information:
Session 1... (LBA: 0)
-> Track 01 (Mode 1, LBA: 0 - 1748799)
-> LeadOut (LBA: 1748800)

Pre-recorded Information:
Manufacturer ID: SONY16D1

Physical Format Information (Last Recorded):
Disc ID: 0@P-!-00
Book Type: DVD-R
Part Version: 5
Disc Size: 120mm
Maximum Read Rate: Not Specified
Number of Layers: 1
Track Path: Parallel Track Path (PTP)
Linear Density: 0.267 um/bit
Track Density: 0.74 um/track
First Physical Sector of Data Area: 196,608
Last Physical Sector of Data Area: 1,945,407
Last Physical Sector in Layer 0: 0

Performance (Write Speed):
Descriptor 1...
-> B0: 0x00, B1: 0x00, B2: 0x00, B3: 0x00
-> EL: 1748799 (0x001AAF3F)
-> RS: 11,080 KB/s (8x) - WS: 5,540 KB/s (4x)
Descriptor 2...
-> B0: 0x00, B1: 0x00, B2: 0x00, B3: 0x00
-> EL: 1748799 (0x001AAF3F)
-> RS: 11,080 KB/s (8x) - WS: 11,080 KB/s (8x)
Descriptor 3...
-> B0: 0x00, B1: 0x00, B2: 0x00, B3: 0x00
-> EL: 1748799 (0x001AAF3F)
-> RS: 11,080 KB/s (8x) - WS: 16,620 KB/s (12x)
Descriptor 4...
-> B0: 0x00, B1: 0x00, B2: 0x00, B3: 0x00
-> EL: 1748799 (0x001AAF3F)
-> RS: 11,080 KB/s (8x) - WS: 22,160 KB/s (16x)
Descriptor 5...
-> B0: 0x00, B1: 0x00, B2: 0x00, B3: 0x00
-> EL: 1748799 (0x001AAF3F)
è RS: 11,080 KB/s (8x) - WS: 27,700 KB/s (20x)

Here is the Nero info = exact same report as ImageBurn.
Attachment 247353

Again, each and every DVD 16x disc I own reports all the way down to 4x fallback – just like jjeff’s reports.

As to the 1x I’m “guessing” but I think that 1x strategies aren’t reported into discs because 1x is a default that is the same with ALL discs and 1x burning needs to be forced with each burner including stand-alones. So I’m guessing upon force of 1x burning the recorders auto default to the standard 1x strategy. Verb AZO clearly state in their literature that they default for RT 1x burning. Most other manufactures also state this. jjeff recently burned a few thousand 1x burns on his stand-alones with minimal failures. I know someone that has a realtime Toshiba stand-alone and burned hundreds of various new discs with very little failures.

Does anyone else have Sony 16D1 that can report back burn speeds?
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post #29 of 38 Old 05-22-2012, 07:49 PM
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Interesting, here is a snapshot of one of my Sony16D1 recorded discs, note mine show down to 4x. I don't know what my bolded part means, the disc may very well have been recorded on my EH-55 but it would have been sometime in '09.

Disc Information:
Status: Complete
State of Last Session: Complete
Erasable: No
Sessions: 1
Sectors: 2,094,848
Size: 4,290,248,704 bytes
Time: 465:33:23 (MM:SS:FF)
Supported Write Speeds: 4x, 6x, 8x, 12x, 16x

TOC Information:
Session 1... (LBA: 0)
-> Track 01 (Mode 1, LBA: 0 - 2094847)
-> LeadOut (LBA: 2094848)

Pre-recorded Information:
Manufacturer ID: SONY16D1

Recording Management Area Information:
MATSHITA DVD-RAM DMR-EH55 CC087413 S159 07/28/06
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post #30 of 38 Old 05-22-2012, 07:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelson View Post

I have been using 16X for give-aways. I've used Ritek and a couple house brands on sale -- all of which only went down to 8X. I currently have a spindle of Sony 16X DVD-R with media ID = SONY16D1 (I guess that means real Sony's). These list supported write speeds of 16X, 12X & 8X -- no lower. Here is the info window output from ImgBurn:

I think this may be your new burner that will no longer burn under 8x - no matter what the disc's write strategy is. Try using an older burner as the default burner when checking the disc info.
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