Datavideo TBC1000 power supply issues - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 13 Old 05-23-2012, 02:00 AM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Cyclone82's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Australia
Posts: 460
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 14
I recently purchased a brand new Datavideo TBC1000 and VP266. I was able to find a dealer in Australia selling the TBC at significantly lower prices than the going price in USA which was surprising. The VP266 was a little more but I thought I would save money getting them both from the same place. This suited me well as I wanted to buy locally to get the correct Australian power supplies anyway.

I thought I was buying from an Australian business as the site was an AU site and I payed for the items by transfer to their bank acc in AUS.

A few days later the items arrive from HK which I though was strange. Apparantly they were out of stock and got me the items sent direct from their ‘other’ warehouse in HK. I opened them up and was annoyed to find non AUS power supplies. I had a UK and Euro one. I was very annoyed now as the whole idea to buy from who I did was to get the right power supplies!!!!. As it turns out they were not even an Australian company.and were in NZ.

After various emails they said I can return them for a refund. I wanted to cut my losses so opted out of that. They told me the power supplies were ‘universal’. Well no they are not and they don’t plug into wall outlets here. They told me to use pin adaptors. I wanted to avoid that as its just another contact point to cause trouble. I just wanted the official proper Datavideo approved power supplies for here.

I decided to go straight to the top since I was getting no joy from the seller and they were not going to get me the correct power supplies. As it turns out they are even technically wrong even if I used pin adaptors as they are rated at 230v and our power can be 240v + 10%. I contacted Datavideo HK and they were not able to help. I then contacted DV Taiwan. I did not hear from them, but a few days later a company in Australia contacted me expressing their concerns and willingness to help me. As it turns out they were the AU importer of DV gear. They are not listed on the DV site though. I had to give them the serial numbers to ensure they got me the right power supplies. They then got them from DV in Taiwan.with some other gear they had on order which took a few days to get here.

I wanted to get the correct good quality made in Taiwan power supplies for the TBC1000 and VP299. They were going to cost me about another $100 for the pair. I was frustrated but if it ment I was gonna get the right ones then I could live with that.

They arrived yesterday. As soon as opened them it was a let down big time. I got these small lightweight universal voltage made in china AC adaptors. Not the hefty square brick adaptors made in Taiwan. Both were rated at 1.5amps which is more than what I had before. The TBC1000 had a 1.2amp supply with it when I got it. That part at least was good becaust i had read that the 1200ma power supply is borderline for the TBC1000 anyway especially when processing strong macrovision. What I got yesterday looked like a $15 adaptor not a $47 one which I was even told was the dealer price and not even full retail!!!!. I sent them an email expressing my concerns that these adaptors look inadequate and are nothing like what I got from HK.

The reply I got said things such as
“Practically all power supplies these days are produced in China”
“all Datavideo product - even their high-end recorders and video switchers - now come with power supplies that have been made and sourced from China”
”Yes, the power supplies that you have received are more compact and significantly lighter than the transformer-type that had been traditionally supplied for many years. The old-style supplies used an iron-cored transformer that added considerable weight to (and in many cases dictated the size of) the "plug pack". These new power supplies are the more energy efficient "switch-mode" type requiring a much smaller and lighter transformer - hence the reduction in size compared to what you previously used. All power supplies provided with Datavideo products are CE approved and suitable for use throughout Australia and New Zealand. These days, most items are manufactured for a world-wide market. Hence it is more economic to design a power supply capable of operation world-wide and simply place it into a case suitable for it's intended market rather than to create totally separate products catering only for each country's mains voltage.
Rest assured that these are identical power supplies that have been provided with the VP-299 and the TBC-1000 in the Australian market right up until the products discontinuation a couple of months ago”


So what do you guys think. Are the switching power adaptors suitable, just as good, or better than what was previously sold with the Datavideo gear? If I had known they were going to send me these I would have hunted on ebay and got the same things for $15 probably. There is no way I can see how these are worth $47 or what ever their full blown retail is. These would cost stuff all to make in China.
I am conbsidering haveing custom made regualted supplies made here http://www.tortech.com.au/cusplug.htm but really i dont know what to do and i just feel let down about the whole thing.

You can see the photos and the listed weights below. Quite a difference.





NOTE - this adaptor says 'switching adaptor' on the label. I accidentally partly covered it up

Cyclone82 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 13 Old 05-23-2012, 04:43 AM
Senior Member
 
morc258's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 245
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 13
The reply you received from the company is honest and correct. You would be better off using the switch mode power supplies. They are more efficient in standby and the output DC is regulated regardless of what the input AC voltage is. Oh, and finding a power supply not currently made in China, good luck with that.

You should put a voltmeter on your mains and see what your typical voltage runs at. The linear "old heavy" power supplies that you received will probably be just fine, but if they are not regulating the output voltage, and most of this type do not, the DC will vary depending on the AC voltage input.

Yes, $47 ea. for the power supplies they sent you sounds unreasonable. If you can send them back, just order the equivalent on fleaBay and save some $. The US version of that power supply seen here is about 1/4 the price.
If you really want a well regulated power supply, and you don't mind an ugly box back behind your gear, just hack an old PC power supply you got laying around. You can power numerous devices off that one supply depending on how much wattage it is rated for. 12v and 5v DC from that power supply are common voltages used in many devices.

If you do check your AC mains voltage, please post your findings. I'm curious to know what your "actual" voltage is.
morc258 is offline  
post #3 of 13 Old 05-23-2012, 08:15 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Cyclone82's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Australia
Posts: 460
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 14
Hi, what is the safe procedure of checking the AC power? I have a band new approx $800AUD Fluke multimeter, model 87V i believe which i bought for automotive/electronics work I can not remember what AC voltages/currents it can handle but when i bought it i do remember it being a very good model and should be cabable. I guess all i need to do is set meter to AC volts and stick a lead in each pin. Sounds scary, we were always taught not to stick things into power points. We have a 3rd pin socket on at the bottom on the wall plates but that is an earth. As you can see, the switching adaptor has no earth pin on it.

Well that is comforting if you agree with what the sales guy told me about the power supplies he sent me.
Thanks
Cyclone82 is offline  
post #4 of 13 Old 05-23-2012, 08:55 PM
AVS Special Member
 
CitiBear's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 3,031
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 17 Post(s)
Liked: 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by morc258 View Post

The reply you received from the company is honest and correct. You would be better off using the switch mode power supplies. They are more efficient in standby and the output DC is regulated regardless of what the input AC voltage is.

It would be really helpful if you could expand a bit on your preference for the switched power adapters. As it happens, Cyclone82 has another concurrent thread about a similar adapter question for an MV filter that normally runs on a 9v battery. In a reply to that thread, rkg22 said he felt the switched adapters were more prone to interference:

Quote:


the wall warts that make noise are those types that are the little non-isolated switchers, as opposed to the older ' transformer/diode/cap types... stay away from those... most cell phone charging adapters are of this type and can be distinguished by their small size and feather weight...

If you have used both types of wall wart in your video work, morc258, any comparative info you could share would be much appreciated: I just checked my own TBC1000 PSU, and its the older iron-core 1200mA version. If Cyclone82 is correct about the DataVideo performing better with a 1500mA PSU, I might jump on one, but your further perspective on potential noise or interference issues would be reassuring.
CitiBear is offline  
post #5 of 13 Old 05-24-2012, 06:37 AM
Senior Member
 
morc258's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 245
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyclone82 View Post

Hi, what is the safe procedure of checking the AC power? I have a band new approx $800AUD Fluke multimeter, model 87V i believe which i bought for automotive/electronics work I can not remember what AC voltages/currents it can handle but when i bought it i do remember it being a very good model and should be cabable. I guess all i need to do is set meter to AC volts and stick a lead in each pin. Sounds scary, we were always taught not to stick things into power points. We have a 3rd pin socket on at the bottom on the wall plates but that is an earth. As you can see, the switching adaptor has no earth pin on it.

Well that is comforting if you agree with what the sales guy told me about the power supplies he sent me.
Thanks

That Fluke 87V is a wonderful meter, I use it all the time. It will safely read voltage up to 1000V. That meter has many functions that could be very useful to you like measuring frequency and capacitance. I suggest you look over the manual and take a look at its capabilities. It is professional grade and extremely accurate.

Yes, to measure your mains, set the meter to V~, and insert probes into the upper left and right receptacle holes. Polarity does not matter. While you have the probes in there, hit the Hz button at the upper right of your meter, and you will see the frequency of your service.

Using your meter as a simple VOM is akin to using a scalpel as a butter knife. Take advantage of its capabilities and recoup on your investment.
morc258 is offline  
post #6 of 13 Old 05-24-2012, 10:00 AM
Senior Member
 
morc258's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 245
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by CitiBear View Post

It would be really helpful if you could expand a bit on your preference for the switched power adapters. As it happens, Cyclone82 has another concurrent thread about a similar adapter question for an MV filter that normally runs on a 9v battery. In a reply to that thread, rkg22 said he felt the switched adapters were more prone to interference:



If you have used both types of wall wart in your video work, morc258, any comparative info you could share would be much appreciated: I just checked my own TBC1000 PSU, and its the older iron-core 1200mA version. If Cyclone82 is correct about the DataVideo performing better with a 1500mA PSU, I might jump on one, but your further perspective on potential noise or interference issues would be reassuring.

I can not attest to this particular piece of equipment, but based on the manufactures own findings, this type of power supply has no adverse effects on the performance.

rkg22 is correct in that there is the possibility of having extra EMI on some switch mode power supplies especially on early tech or non-isolated styles.
I took apart three phone chargers today and all of them were isolated style with HF transformers. All of the other larger (higher current) models I have opened were also of the isolated variety. The type rkg22 is warning to stay away from do not have the transformer, therefore they are not isolating the primary and secondary which is not desirable.

Here is a example of the "non regulation" of the typical old style wall wart:

I took two power supplies, both equal in output voltage and current ratings,1000mA @ 12VDC. One was old transformer style, the other was new switching style. With no load, the old PS was pumping out 17.8V. The new one, 12.36V. When measuring AC component on the DC output, the old was 2.4mV and the newer was 4.0mV. The old one has no control over voltage fluctuations on the input, or current fluctuations on the output (which influence the voltage level). If you have a surge, the output potential will rise, if you have a dip, the output will fall.(this is a typical old style wall wart)
The switching power supply can compensate for these variables as long as they are within the rated specs. Voltage and current output will be pretty rock solid independent of the fluctuations.
The AC leakage to the DC output was a tad higher on the newer supply, but not that much. That and other EMI might have an undesirable effect in older analog equipment. That may come down to good ol' trial and error. I personally no longer have any analog equipment, so I can't offer any real world test scenarios. I know, speculation doesn't mean squat. Until you try it, you will not know for sure.

I have made a conscious effort to change every power supply in the house to switching style and thankfully, all newer equipment I buy has them already.
Regulations on external power supplies has been tightened up to a point where switching power supplies are the only current way to achieve compliance.

Interesting point of note, B&H says the TBC-1000 will run on 5-12V here
Datavideo says :12V 1A DC 110 power supply (220 volt power supply available as a special order) here under full specifications.
The product manual says DC 9V 1A here
I would definitely stick with 12V, but looks like it's capable of running at lower voltage?
As far as these units running better at 1.5A, maybe older units had more power requirement? It is always better to have more current capacity than needed (within reason), so the power supply won't have to work so hard.
morc258 is offline  
post #7 of 13 Old 05-25-2012, 12:48 AM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Cyclone82's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Australia
Posts: 460
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 14
The Australian DV importer said the TBC1000 has undergone numerous changes in its life time and thats why he needed to know my serial number to make sure he got me the right power supply. I myself have seen 2 different types internally. One type which is basically just a VP266 distribution amp with a TBC100 timebase corrector (i hope i have remembered the part number right) and then i have seen another type that has the VP266 amp but the TBC100 is slightly different plus there is an extra PCB inside the case with other components. It basically looks like they took some components off the TBC100board and also added some capacitors and mounted them on another board inside the TBC1000 case. i have not opened mine yet to see which version i have because it has those annoying QC warrenty void if removed stickers right on the join and i have to sit down and carefully peel it off so i can stick it back on again after lifting the lid.
For those that dont know the TBC1000 is a TBC100 time base corrector linked with a VP266 distrubution amp in the same case. At time of purchase i also bought a VP266 distribution amp on its own.

I was also told these new 1.5amp power supplies have enough 'headroom' for the TBC1000's requirements. There shoudl be some in reserve and it will only draw what it needs too. The supply i got with the VP266 was only 500ma but new supplied switching type was the same 1.5amp one they sent for the TBC1000 so there is plenty in reserve for that. That just tells me is the timebase corrector that consumes the most of the current inside the TBC1000.

Yes I know that multimeter is good. I spent a long time shopping around for one and decided on that one. I was sick of $29 chinese meters that just don’t last. I use a fluke 87v at work but have not used it to its full capabilities beyond measureing DC volts amps and resistance. I have not used my personal one yet. Because I bought it in USA it was somewhere around the $300USD mark but here they were advertised in the $700-$800 AUD on average. You are right I should read the manual, I am sure if will give instructions on how to measure the mains outlets.
Cyclone82 is offline  
post #8 of 13 Old 05-25-2012, 05:40 AM
Senior Member
 
morc258's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 245
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Cyclone,
If you have an extra adapter plug that is the same style as the one for your TBC1000, you can put your meter in series on the DC power circuit and see what the unit actually uses for current. Maybe show your readings for idle mode and when it is doing some real work.

I'm sure Citibear would be interested in your findings. Of course you would have to compare notes to see if your equipment is apples to apples considering you said they may have different revisions.
morc258 is offline  
post #9 of 13 Old 05-25-2012, 07:14 AM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Cyclone82's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Australia
Posts: 460
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 14
I have 2 identical adaptors like in the second photo above (1.5amp supply) they sent one for my TBC1000 and one for the VP266.

I think what you mean is to have another lead comming out the TBC1000 DC socket........ I am having a mental blank here and not quite sure how i can measure it in series or what i would need. I reckon i would need a T- fitting to tap into the DC cord ? as i dont want to chop it or peel back any insulation I am sure thats what i need, A 3 way 5.5mm DC socket plus an extension lead. Power supply into one side, extension lead in the other and to the TBC1000 and the 3rd socket is the point for measuring what its drawing. Positive of meter to the center tip and negative lead of meter to the outer ring of the socket/plug.
Cyclone82 is offline  
post #10 of 13 Old 05-25-2012, 10:03 AM
AVS Special Member
 
CitiBear's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 3,031
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 17 Post(s)
Liked: 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyclone82 View Post

The Australian DV importer said the TBC1000 has undergone numerous changes in its life time and thats why he needed to know my serial number to make sure he got me the right power supply. I myself have seen 2 different types internally. One type which is basically just a VP266 distribution amp with a TBC100 timebase corrector (i hope i have remembered the part number right) and then i have seen another type that has the VP266 amp but the TBC100 is slightly different plus there is an extra PCB inside the case with other components. It basically looks like they took some components off the TBC100board and also added some capacitors and mounted them on another board inside the TBC1000 case.

To this day, enthusiasts are annoyed with DataVideo for inexplicably kludging the TBC100 and VP266 together to make the TBC1000 standalone box. The TBC100 is well-regarded as a PC-board TBC, all DataVideo had to do was put it in a standalone case with a power supply, but oh no: they just couldn't resist the lure of "feature-itis" bloat. Almost no one needing a TBC1000 also needs a built in distribution amp, and its particular manifestation in the TBC1000 leaves the unit vulnerable to crosstalk and extraneous noise, esp when three of the four outputs are unused (97% of owners never use more than one tap). Including the distribution amp also forced a really clumsy connection design: input on front panel, all outputs on back panel (the TBC1000 is a small unit but practically requires its own table because of this design idiocy). And one has to expect part of the inflated TBC1000 price is due to the added expense of the VP266 circuitry.

Perhaps the later variations the DataVideo rep mentioned correct some of the drawbacks of the combined functions: the extra board in later units might serve to isolate and buffer the unused outputs. Since my own TBC1000 came with the old power supply, I have to assume it doesn't have the internal upgrades. It works well, but does have veiling noise I attribute to the (useless to me) VP266 circuit.
CitiBear is offline  
post #11 of 13 Old 05-25-2012, 05:50 PM
Senior Member
 
morc258's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 245
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyclone82 View Post

I have 2 identical adaptors like in the second photo above (1.5amp supply) they sent one for my TBC1000 and one for the VP266.

I think what you mean is to have another lead comming out the TBC1000 DC socket........ I am having a mental blank here and not quite sure how i can measure it in series or what i would need. I reckon i would need a T- fitting to tap into the DC cord ? as i dont want to chop it or peel back any insulation I am sure thats what i need, A 3 way 5.5mm DC socket plus an extension lead. Power supply into one side, extension lead in the other and to the TBC1000 and the 3rd socket is the point for measuring what its drawing. Positive of meter to the center tip and negative lead of meter to the outer ring of the socket/plug.

In order to read the current you have to run the power through the meter. There are clamp on current probes that go around the wire, but I find they are not as accurate as sending it directly through the meter leads.
I am attaching a picture because as they say, it will be worth a thousand words.
There are two ports on your meter for reading current. One is for small current readings, up to 400mA. The other, which is what you want to use for this test, will go up to 10A. Both of these test points are protected by a fuse, so if you ever overload the circuit, it will protect the meter.
In order to test this you will need an adapter plug that is the same size as the plug your equipment requires. You probably have an old extra power supply that you no longer use anymore in your stash somewhere? They can also be bought at a very reasonable price if you look around. I also used a small jumper with gator clips to run the negative through. Wait a minute, should I have said "croc" clips instead? I don't think you have alligators down there do ya?

Anyway, once you take the readings you can also calculate the exact wattage that the equipment is using by multiplying your reading by the voltage. E x I = P (voltage x current = wattage)

Anybody attempting this should know, the circuit in particular we are dealing with is 12VDC and there is not enough potential to electrocute you, let alone even feel a shock. Measurements can be made on the primary side where AC current is going into the power supply, but special care needs to be taken. The potential on the AC side is much higher (120-240V) and it should not be played with unless you have at least a rudimentary understanding of what you are dealing with.
LL
morc258 is offline  
post #12 of 13 Old 05-25-2012, 05:56 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Cyclone82's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Australia
Posts: 460
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 14
Ah yeah, clamp on current meter. Thats what i need and have wanted to get but have not got yet. Why did i not think of that before.
Yeah well it was only after i went to bed that i realised what i was describing above was measuring volts, like i said mental blank and it was past midnight, and i needed to just fit the meter between the positve side for current, but was not sure which way to go about it but your picture makes it easy. I have got aligator clips but will need to get another DC 5.5mm plug lead as i dont think i have any here. I work with 6 and 12v AC/DC a fair bit and am used to shocks from ignition systems so i know what that feels like
Cyclone82 is offline  
post #13 of 13 Old 05-26-2012, 09:49 AM
Senior Member
 
morc258's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 245
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Cyclone, I know you have multiple devices that have North American style plugs and are capable of being powered at 240V. Do you put an adapter on each one of those plugs so it will fit your receptacle?
If I had the conversion issue that you do, I think I would build a power strip so I could plug in multiple devices into it with no adapters to mess with. Of course always keeping in mind not to plug anything into it that couldn't handle the higher voltage and different frequency. Another factor would be to keep the kiddies or other unaware people from sticking the wrong device in it.
LL
morc258 is offline  
Reply DVD Recorders (Standard Def)

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off