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post #1 of 11 Old 05-23-2012, 03:22 AM - Thread Starter
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Kelson, jjeff and myself each ran a fairly new Sony 16X –R disc in IMGBurn and all three of us got different Media ID burn speed strategy results.

Kelson’s Results:
Quote:


MID: SONY16D1
Supported Write Speeds: 8x, 12x, 16x

Performance (Write Speed):
Descriptor 1...
-> B0: 0x02, B1: 0x00, B2: 0x00, B3: 0x00
-> EL: 2298495 (0x0023127F)
-> RS: 22,180 KB/s (16x) - WS: 11,080 KB/s (8x)
Descriptor 2...
-> B0: 0x02, B1: 0x00, B2: 0x00, B3: 0x00
-> EL: 2298495 (0x0023127F)
-> RS: 22,180 KB/s (16x) - WS: 16,620 KB/s (12x)
Descriptor 3...
-> B0: 0x02, B1: 0x00, B2: 0x00, B3: 0x00
-> EL: 2298495 (0x0023127F)
-> RS: 22,180 KB/s (16x) - WS: 22,160 KB/s (16x)

jjeff’s Results:
Quote:


MID: SONY16D1
Supported Write Speeds: 4x, 6x, 8x, 12x, 16x

Performance (Write Speed):
Descriptor 1...
-> B0: 0x00, B1: 0x00, B2: 0x00, B3: 0x00
-> EL: 2297887 (0x0023101F)
-> RS: 22,160 KB/s (16x) - WS: 5,540 KB/s (4x)
Descriptor 2...
-> B0: 0x00, B1: 0x00, B2: 0x00, B3: 0x00
-> EL: 2297887 (0x0023101F)
-> RS: 22,160 KB/s (16x) - WS: 8,310 KB/s (6x)
Descriptor 3...
-> B0: 0x00, B1: 0x00, B2: 0x00, B3: 0x00
-> EL: 2297887 (0x0023101F)
-> RS: 22,160 KB/s (16x) - WS: 11,080 KB/s (8x)
Descriptor 4...
-> B0: 0x08, B1: 0x00, B2: 0x00, B3: 0x00
-> EL: 2297887 (0x0023101F)
-> RS: 22,160 KB/s (16x) - WS: 16,620 KB/s (12x)
Descriptor 5...
-> B0: 0x08, B1: 0x00, B2: 0x00, B3: 0x00
-> EL: 2297887 (0x0023101F)
-> RS: 22,160 KB/s (16x) - WS: 22,160 KB/s (16x)

Super Eye’s Results:
Quote:


MID: SONY16D1
Supported Write Speeds: 4x, 8x, 12x, 16x, 20x

Performance (Write Speed):
Descriptor 1...
-> B0: 0x00, B1: 0x00, B2: 0x00, B3: 0x00
-> EL: 1748799 (0x001AAF3F)
-> RS: 11,080 KB/s (8x) - WS: 5,540 KB/s (4x)
Descriptor 2...
-> B0: 0x00, B1: 0x00, B2: 0x00, B3: 0x00
-> EL: 1748799 (0x001AAF3F)
-> RS: 11,080 KB/s (8x) - WS: 11,080 KB/s (8x)
Descriptor 3...
-> B0: 0x00, B1: 0x00, B2: 0x00, B3: 0x00
-> EL: 1748799 (0x001AAF3F)
-> RS: 11,080 KB/s (8x) - WS: 16,620 KB/s (12x)
Descriptor 4...
-> B0: 0x00, B1: 0x00, B2: 0x00, B3: 0x00
-> EL: 1748799 (0x001AAF3F)
-> RS: 11,080 KB/s (8x) - WS: 22,160 KB/s (16x)
Descriptor 5...
-> B0: 0x00, B1: 0x00, B2: 0x00, B3: 0x00
-> EL: 1748799 (0x001AAF3F)
-> RS: 11,080 KB/s (8x) - WS: 27,700 KB/s (20x)

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post #2 of 11 Old 05-23-2012, 04:27 AM
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I have some old Sony 16X DVD-Rs laying around. I don't remember exactly when I got them but it was probably over a year ago.

Could the drive firmware have anything to do with the different supported write speeds?

MID: SONY16D1
Supported Write Speeds: 4x, 8x, 16x

Descriptor 1...
-> B0: 0x02, B1: 0x00, B2: 0x00, B3: 0x00
-> EL: 2298495 (0x0023127F)
-> RS: 22,180 KB/s (16x) - WS: 5,540 KB/s (4x)
Descriptor 2...
-> B0: 0x02, B1: 0x00, B2: 0x00, B3: 0x00
-> EL: 2298495 (0x0023127F)
-> RS: 22,180 KB/s (16x) - WS: 11,080 KB/s (8x)
Descriptor 3...
-> B0: 0x02, B1: 0x00, B2: 0x00, B3: 0x00
-> EL: 2298495 (0x0023127F)
-> RS: 22,180 KB/s (16x) - WS: 22,160 KB/s (16x)
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post #3 of 11 Old 05-23-2012, 07:24 AM
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I guess we are taking the discussion to it's own thread. Probably a good idea. Let me repeat part of my response to Super Eye in the other thread here so we can go forward.

In response to:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Super Eye View Post

I think this may be your new burner that will no longer burn under 8x - no matter what the disc's write strategy is. Try using an older burner as the default burner when checking the disc info.

The drive I used is about 10 months old and is my newest but it will certainly burn 1X if I tell it to. I wouldn't think the age of the drive has anything to do with the information it reads off the blank disk. You read a 20X write strategy; do you have a 20X drive?

I do have two other burners that are a little older (all the burners are 16X LG drives) so I will read the disk's info on them tonight and see if it matches. They are all 16X but different configurations: 1 DVD burner; 1 DVD burner/BD-ROM reader; 1 BD burner.

The obvious possibility is that Sony plays fast and loose with their disks and these variations are real.

- kelson h

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post #4 of 11 Old 05-23-2012, 08:01 AM
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The following shapshot was done on my newer HP laptop which I know has only a 8x drive(although the funny thing is when burning Verbatim 2.4x DL DVDs I get the option for 4x(which I've never tried) while my 16x desktops only allow 2.4x max for those disc types)
Anyway the disc I used was from the same <6 month old Sony spindle although as you can see by my bolded area, this was burned on a EH-50(note the very old date, must be when the firmware was written)??

hp DVD RW AD-7701H 2.85 (ATAPI)
Current Profile: DVD-ROM

Disc Information:
Status: Complete
State of Last Session: Complete
Erasable: No
Sessions: 1
Sectors: 2,246,464
Size: 4,600,758,272 bytes
Time: 499:14:64 (MM:SS:FF)
MID: SONY16D1
Supported Write Speeds: 2x, 4x, 6x, 8x

TOC Information:
Session 1... (LBA: 0)
-> Track 01 (Mode 1, LBA: 0 - 2246463)
-> LeadOut (LBA: 2246464)

Pre-recorded Information:
Manufacturer ID: SONY16D1

Recording Management Area Information:
MATSHITA DVD-RAM DMR-EH50 e0129970 J144 06/28/05

This tells me the supported write speeds are somewhat burner related and not just a function of the DVD.
Lastly, the Sony media I've been reporting on is the white flat top printable -R Sony 16x, the Sony pearl top 16x -R DVDs that I have are actually RITEK ID, not Sony!
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post #5 of 11 Old 05-23-2012, 09:23 AM
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Well, that's interesting. You lose 12 & 16X and gain 2X. Looks like you are probably right about the burner dependency. I'll have to see what my other two drives list out in ImgBurn. Unfortunately, I don't have any drives slower than 16X.

- kelson h

The bitterness of poor quality lasts long after the sweetness of the low price is forgotten . . . life is too short to drink bad wine

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post #6 of 11 Old 05-23-2012, 03:39 PM - Thread Starter
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That's very interesting. Five different machines, five different results using one Sony 16D1 disc. I'm starting to believe that the discs indeed have 1x to 16x strategies (with 1x being a standard and no need to write it in) and our deck's firmware picking only the strategies most compatible with them.

Note in all my past tests using various discs (Sony, MCC, Ritek, Verb TY) none of the discs with my set up report a 6x speed option. Yet all you guys get a 6x option.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelson View Post

You read a 20X write strategy; do you have a 20X drive?

It's a 22X drive.
Note in other disc tests MCC and RITEK top out at 16x max speed SONY @ 20X and Verbatim AZO at 22X. I did some googling and found many people with the same results of Sony topping out at 20x and Verb AZO at 22x.
Attachment 247404 Attachment 247405 Attachment 247406 Attachment 247407

I will repeat myself:
I'm starting to believe that the discs indeed have 1x to 16x strategies written (with 1x being a standard and no need to write it in) and our deck's firmware picking only the strategies most compatible with them. I am thinking that my stand-alone probably reads: 2x 4x 6x 8x and usually picks 4x.

Please someone comment on my bold writing above.
LL
LL
LL
LL
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post #7 of 11 Old 05-23-2012, 04:05 PM
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Well, here are the ImgBurn results for the same 16X SONY16D1 in each of my three burners. The results are listed as newest burner first and oldest burner last. All three burners are 16X.

The third burner is the same LG burner Super Eye shows in his post except my firmware has been updated (and rip-lock removed) to the latest 2.0 firmware for that model. Note that Super Eye's read speeds are 8X whereas mine are 16X.

The two SATA burners show the same set of write strategies: 8, 12, 16X. The IDE (ATA) burner shows the same 4, 8, 12, 16, 20X strategy set as Super Eye. I have to agree that the burners are picking their preferred write strategies from the list on the disk.

This is an LG DVD burner/BD-ROM reader: SATA interface
Quote:


HL-DT-ST DVDRWBD CH20N A201 (ATAPI)
Current Profile: DVD-R

Disc Information:
Status: Empty
State of Last Session: Empty
Erasable: No
Free Sectors: 2,297,888
Free Space: 4,706,074,624 bytes
Free Time: 510:40:38 (MM:SS:FF)
Next Writable Address: 0
MID: SONY16D1
Supported Write Speeds: 8x, 12x, 16x


Pre-recorded Information:
Manufacturer ID: SONY16D1

Physical Format Information (Last Recorded):
Disc ID: 0@P-!-00
Book Type: DVD-R
Part Version: 5
Disc Size: 120mm
Maximum Read Rate: Not Specified
Number of Layers: 1
Track Path: Parallel Track Path (PTP)
Linear Density: 0.267 um/bit
Track Density: 0.74 um/track
First Physical Sector of Data Area: 196,608
Last Physical Sector of Data Area: 2,495,103
Last Physical Sector in Layer 0: 0

Performance (Write Speed):
Descriptor 1...
-> B0: 0x02, B1: 0x00, B2: 0x00, B3: 0x00
-> EL: 2298495 (0x0023127F)
-> RS: 22,180 KB/s (16x) - WS: 11,080 KB/s (8x)
Descriptor 2...
-> B0: 0x02, B1: 0x00, B2: 0x00, B3: 0x00
-> EL: 2298495 (0x0023127F)
-> RS: 22,180 KB/s (16x) - WS: 16,620 KB/s (12x)
Descriptor 3...
-> B0: 0x02, B1: 0x00, B2: 0x00, B3: 0x00
-> EL: 2298495 (0x0023127F)
-> RS: 22,180 KB/s (16x) - WS: 22,160 KB/s (16x)

This is an LG BD-R/RE burner: SATA interface
Quote:


HL-DT-ST BD-RE WH10LS30 1.00 (ATAPI)
Current Profile: DVD-R

Disc Information:
Status: Empty
State of Last Session: Empty
Erasable: No
Free Sectors: 2,297,888
Free Space: 4,706,074,624 bytes
Free Time: 510:40:38 (MM:SS:FF)
Next Writable Address: 0
MID: SONY16D1
Supported Write Speeds: 8x, 12x, 16x


Pre-recorded Information:
Manufacturer ID: SONY16D1

Physical Format Information (Last Recorded):
Disc ID: 0@P-!-00
Book Type: DVD-R
Part Version: 5
Disc Size: 120mm
Maximum Read Rate: Not Specified
Number of Layers: 1
Track Path: Parallel Track Path (PTP)
Linear Density: 0.267 um/bit
Track Density: 0.74 um/track
First Physical Sector of Data Area: 196,608
Last Physical Sector of Data Area: 2,495,103
Last Physical Sector in Layer 0: 0

Performance (Write Speed):
Descriptor 1...
-> B0: 0x02, B1: 0x00, B2: 0x00, B3: 0x00
-> EL: 2298495 (0x0023127F)
-> RS: 22,180 KB/s (16x) - WS: 11,080 KB/s (8x)
Descriptor 2...
-> B0: 0x02, B1: 0x00, B2: 0x00, B3: 0x00
-> EL: 2298495 (0x0023127F)
-> RS: 22,180 KB/s (16x) - WS: 16,620 KB/s (12x)
Descriptor 3...
-> B0: 0x02, B1: 0x00, B2: 0x00, B3: 0x00
-> EL: 2298495 (0x0023127F)
-> RS: 22,180 KB/s (16x) - WS: 22,160 KB/s (16x)

This is an LG DVD burner: IDE (ATA) interface
Quote:


HL-DT-ST DVD-RAM GH22NP20 2.00 (ATA)
Current Profile: DVD-R

Disc Information:
Status: Empty
State of Last Session: Empty
Erasable: No
Free Sectors: 2,297,888
Free Space: 4,706,074,624 bytes
Free Time: 510:40:38 (MM:SS:FF)
Next Writable Address: 0
MID: SONY16D1
Supported Write Speeds: 4x, 8x, 12x, 16x, 20x


Pre-recorded Information:
Manufacturer ID: SONY16D1

Physical Format Information (Last Recorded):
Disc ID: 0@P-!-00
Book Type: DVD-R
Part Version: 5
Disc Size: 120mm
Maximum Read Rate: Not Specified
Number of Layers: 1
Track Path: Parallel Track Path (PTP)
Linear Density: 0.267 um/bit
Track Density: 0.74 um/track
First Physical Sector of Data Area: 196,608
Last Physical Sector of Data Area: 2,495,103
Last Physical Sector in Layer 0: 0

Performance (Write Speed):
Descriptor 1...
-> B0: 0x00, B1: 0x00, B2: 0x00, B3: 0x00
-> EL: 2298495 (0x0023127F)
-> RS: 22,160 KB/s (16x) - WS: 5,540 KB/s (4x)
Descriptor 2...
-> B0: 0x00, B1: 0x00, B2: 0x00, B3: 0x00
-> EL: 2298495 (0x0023127F)
-> RS: 22,160 KB/s (16x) - WS: 11,080 KB/s (8x)
Descriptor 3...
-> B0: 0x00, B1: 0x00, B2: 0x00, B3: 0x00
-> EL: 2298495 (0x0023127F)
-> RS: 22,160 KB/s (16x) - WS: 16,620 KB/s (12x)
Descriptor 4...
-> B0: 0x00, B1: 0x00, B2: 0x00, B3: 0x00
-> EL: 2298495 (0x0023127F)
-> RS: 22,160 KB/s (16x) - WS: 22,160 KB/s (16x)
Descriptor 5...
-> B0: 0x00, B1: 0x00, B2: 0x00, B3: 0x00
-> EL: 2298495 (0x0023127F)
-> RS: 22,160 KB/s (16x) - WS: 27,700 KB/s (20x)


- kelson h

The bitterness of poor quality lasts long after the sweetness of the low price is forgotten . . . life is too short to drink bad wine

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post #8 of 11 Old 05-23-2012, 04:33 PM - Thread Starter
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Very interesting. With Kelson's latest tests I'm pretty well convinced that the discs are 1x to 16x and the burner's firmware picks and chooses and reports what it deems best. That also convinces me that my RDR-HX780 with it's no sooner then April 2008 firmware does the same with 16x discs -.probably chooses around 4x for the majority of a burn and thus uses 4x laser power

Just some comments regarding my LG burner.

- It's a DVD 22x, not a 16x burner as the manual and all my PC software reports it as a DVD 22x burner. Not that it matters cause I never use such high speeds but the laser definitely has enough power for 22x burns.

- My 1.04 firmware is the newest you can get for a XP system - I flashed it myself. You must be running the windows 7 firmware.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelson View Post

All three burners are 16X. The third burner is the same LG burner Super Eye shows in his post except my firmware has been updated (and rip-lock removed) to the latest 2.0 firmware for that model. Note that Super Eye's read speeds are 8X whereas mine are 16X.

The IDE (ATA) burner shows the same 4, 8, 12, 16, 20X strategy set as Super Eye. I have to agree that the burners are picking their preferred write strategies from the list on the disk.

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post #9 of 11 Old 05-23-2012, 05:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Super Eye View Post

- My 1.04 firmware is the newest you can get for a XP system - I flashed it myself. You must be running the windows 7 firmware.

No, it is, and has always been, running under Win-XP SP-3.

- kelson h

The bitterness of poor quality lasts long after the sweetness of the low price is forgotten . . . life is too short to drink bad wine

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post #10 of 11 Old 05-23-2012, 06:27 PM - Thread Starter
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^^^
OK thanks. I wrongly assumed it's for Win7 because I tried flashing my unit with the 2.0 firmware and ran into problems. I reverted back to the last firmware before that which is 1.04 and all works well.
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post #11 of 11 Old 05-24-2012, 05:45 AM
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I get different capabilities in the MID report on the same disc in a different drive. The first time was with the OEM drive in my Win7 Dell Inspiron 580. This time I used my old external USB HP DVD Writer 1170d on a computer with WinXP SP3.

MID: SONY16D1
Supported Write Speeds: 4x, 6x, 8x, 12x, 16x, 18x

Performance (Write Speed):
Descriptor 1...
-> B0: 0x00, B1: 0x00, B2: 0x00, B3: 0x00
-> EL: 2297887 (0x0023101F)
-> RS: 22,160 KB/s (16x) - WS: 5,540 KB/s (4x)
Descriptor 2...
-> B0: 0x00, B1: 0x00, B2: 0x00, B3: 0x00
-> EL: 2297887 (0x0023101F)
-> RS: 22,160 KB/s (16x) - WS: 8,310 KB/s (6x)
Descriptor 3...
-> B0: 0x00, B1: 0x00, B2: 0x00, B3: 0x00
-> EL: 2297887 (0x0023101F)
-> RS: 22,160 KB/s (16x) - WS: 11,080 KB/s (8x)
Descriptor 4...
-> B0: 0x00, B1: 0x00, B2: 0x00, B3: 0x00
-> EL: 2297887 (0x0023101F)
-> RS: 22,160 KB/s (16x) - WS: 16,620 KB/s (12x)
Descriptor 5...
-> B0: 0x08, B1: 0x00, B2: 0x00, B3: 0x00
-> EL: 2297887 (0x0023101F)
-> RS: 22,160 KB/s (16x) - WS: 22,160 KB/s (16x)
Descriptor 6...
-> B0: 0x08, B1: 0x00, B2: 0x00, B3: 0x00
-> EL: 2297887 (0x0023101F)
-> RS: 22,160 KB/s (16x) - WS: 24,930 KB/s (18x)
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