Panasonic international model DVD recorders EH59/69 availability - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 19 Old 07-12-2012, 10:18 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
Church AV Guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: High Desert, California
Posts: 4,606
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 46 Post(s)
Liked: 55
After a comment (or two) by CitiBear (edited):
Quote:
...Panasonic DVD/HDD recorders are almost completely gone from the North American market aside from the import EH-59 and EH-69, and those cost approx. $300-400 depending on model and whether you can snag a "refurb" deal... buy an EH-59 from B&H Photo Video while they still have some stock. Panasonic has already begun winding down production of all BluRay/HDD and DVD/HDD recorders, once the EH-59 is officially discontinued prices will skyrocket to $600 on the last few units as people buy them up to flip for profit on eBay.

After reading a few comments like this, I sent an e-mail to B&H asking about this:
Quote:
I have heard rumors that the DVD recorders Panasonic models DMR EH59 and DMR EH69 are being discotinued, and there will be no follow-on model. Is this correct? That would be unfortunate if true, as they are almost unique, and definitely fill a need.

I know that you cannot (or do not) comment on products that you do not carry, but can you tell me anything about the anticipated availability of these recorders, of any possible follow-on model? It would be greatly appreciated.

The reply I got was, if noting else, disappointing, but predictable. As a prophet, CitiBear is doing well, I guess.
Quote:
Hello Luke, my name is Mark S:

Thank you for contacting the E-Mail Sales Department at B&H Photo Video and Pro Audio.

it would appear that your information is correct. it looks the this product category has become extinct. I do not anticipate a follow-up product from any manufacturer.

Closest matches - professional grade:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/844862-REG/JVC_SR_HD2500US_SR_HD2500US_Blu_Ray_Disc.html

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/652166-REG/JVC_SR_HD1500US_SR_HD1500US_Blu_ray_Disc.html

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/652210-REG/JVC_SR_HD1250US_SR_HD1250US_Blu_ray_Disc.html

Please let us know if there is anything else we can assist you with.

Thank you, we appreciate your business.


Mark S
B&H Photo Video and Pro Audio
The Professional's Source.
E-Mail Sales Department
http://www.bhphotovideo.com

He didn't QUITE have to use the phrase "this product category has become extinct", though in doing so he left little wiggle room. So, if you have any concern, do what CitiBear suggested and "buy them up to flip for profit on eBay" before they are all gone.

I guess the remaining EH59/69s and the upcoming Magnavox recorders are really IT for DVD recorders, as in "that's it--game over".frown.gif The products that Mark S. listed are $1100, $2500, and $3600. Not likely to be purchased, and of course, not really able to record in HD for us in North America, except for saving the content from an appropriate HD camcorder.

Luke

Evil is charming and beautiful. It makes you doubt yourself. It asks for one small compromise after another until it whittles you down, and it functions best when no one believes in it.-JOA
Church AV Guy is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 19 Old 07-12-2012, 11:25 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Kelson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Delaware - The First State (USA)
Posts: 10,087
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 285 Post(s)
Liked: 358
Stand-alone DVD recorders may be on the way out, but not really "game over" as far as recording. Just a shift in methods and equipment used.

- kelson h

The bitterness of poor quality lasts long after the sweetness of the low price is forgotten . . . life is too short to drink bad wine

Kelson is offline  
post #3 of 19 Old 07-12-2012, 11:49 AM
AVS Special Member
 
CitiBear's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 3,041
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 25 Post(s)
Liked: 50
Thank you for reporting your correspondence with B&H Photo Video, that is useful info direct from the horse's mouth.

While disappointing, there are several ways to interpret their statement. I believe they mean there will be no further updates to the EH59, or similar consumer-level units being released by other big-name brands. But this does not necessarily imply the EH59 itself is going bye-bye, at least not tomorrow. If you take a wider view of the overall worldwide market, you'll see the EH59 is an anomaly in the Panasonic lineup that always was and remains a "psst- Joe sent me" sort of product. Panasonic all but buries its existence, since the EH59 (to most people's POV) is neither fish nor fowl: it is a PAL-centric recorder that has no modern DVB-T FreeView tuner or EPG and isn't optimized for any specific PAL country. Up until the last couple years, DVD/HDD and BD/HDD remained popular in Europe largely because of the country-specific models with dual DVB-T and satellite tuners with EPG. No one in London, Madrid, Berlin, or Sydney is interested in the "stripped" EH-59: what would they do with it?

The only reason the EH59 exists is to serve the Middle Eastern market, much of which still had/has analog PAL broadcasts. Tourists from these countries snap the EH59 up from New York dealers, and of course they sell directly in those countries as well as some Asian regions. It just so happens that the EH59 "afterthought" feature of being able to record in NTSC suits Americans with cable/satellite decoders perfectly, since they don't use the internal tuner of the recorder. Those who were long comfortable with using an external tuner box to feed their recorder adopted the EH59 as a natural replacement for older Panasonic, Pioneer, Sony and Toshiba DVD/HDD units that had been connected the same way. But American buyers of the EH59 probably constitute a very small percentage of the market for that recorder: it remains available primarily as a stop-gap universally adaptable compromise recorder for many countries.

While it is true the feature-laden country-specific PAL recorders have been mostly discontinued by other mfrs, leaving just a handful of declining Panasonics, the EH59 may hang on for awhile longer yet. Lacking all the bells and whistles, and based on a six year old chassis, it is much cheaper for Panasonic to produce. As long as there is a small global market for such a "vague" machine, I think it might stick around. Remember, Panasonic is the company that kept making the same SL-1200MkII turntable until 2011, nearly 25 years after consumers all but abandoned vinyl for music. With any luck, the EH59 could last until at least 2014 . But if anyone is seriously thinking of buying one, now would be the time- just in case.
CitiBear is offline  
post #4 of 19 Old 07-12-2012, 01:53 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
Church AV Guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: High Desert, California
Posts: 4,606
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 46 Post(s)
Liked: 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelson View Post

Stand-alone DVD recorders may be on the way out, but not really "game over" as far as recording. Just a shift in methods and equipment used.

I didn't say, or imply (I hope) that the market was dead, "put a fork in it it's done" for recordING. What I was saying is the stand-alone DVD recorder is nearing extinction. Once the Panasonic goes, and it only has a tiny market share I would think since it's only available from a handful of gray market sellers, that only leaves the one maker left. And while there are rumored to be three models coming out, like the 59/69, they are likely the same machine with a few minor enhancements. No, not game-over for recording, but game-over for recordERS.frown.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by CitiBear View Post

...there are several ways to interpret their statement. I believe they mean there will be no further updates to the EH59, or similar consumer-level units being released by other big-name brands.

Agreed, if ther eis an update, no one will be more surprised than me. I expect this will be the last of the line. What is a little amazing to me is comparing the short lifespan of the EH67 and EH68, the EH69 has been around FOREVER. If an update were coming, it would have been here by now. In other words, there is a follow-on model, I'll be astonished!eek.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by CitiBear View Post

The only reason the EH59 exists is to serve the Middle Eastern market, much of which still had/has analog PAL broadcasts. Tourists from these countries snap the EH59 up from New York dealers, and of course they sell directly in those countries as well as some Asian regions.
Yup, mine say middle east on the enclosed (english) operator's manual. That seems to be the targeted market, At least for a large number of these EH5x recorders.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CitiBear View Post

It just so happens that the EH59 "afterthought" feature of being able to record in NTSC suits Americans with cable/satellite decoders perfectly, since they don't use the internal tuner of the recorder. Those who were long comfortable with using an external tuner box to feed their recorder adopted the EH59 as a natural replacement for older Panasonic, Pioneer, Sony and Toshiba DVD/HDD units that had been connected the same way. But American buyers of the EH59 probably constitute a very small percentage of the market for that recorder: it remains available primarily as a stop-gap universally adaptable compromise recorder for many countries.
I can't argue with any of that. I'm sure the American market is insignificant, or nearly so. Still, as you say, it does fit the needs of those of us who use things like DirecTV receivers, and feed our recorders from them. Not having a tuner isn't an issue in such cases. I assume those with cable boxes are similarly able to use these recorder.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CitiBear View Post

While it is true the feature-laden country-specific PAL recorders have been mostly discontinued by other mfrs, leaving just a handful of declining Panasonics, the EH59 may hang on for awhile longer yet. Lacking all the bells and whistles, and based on a six year old chassis, it is much cheaper for Panasonic to produce. As long as there is a small global market for such a "vague" machine, I think it might stick around... But if anyone is seriously thinking of buying one, now would be the time- just in case.
Unfortunately, this is probably true.

I asked a followup question about the continued availability of the EH59/69, and here is the answer I was given:
Quote:
I cannot provide info as to sales movement of these items -smile.gif , but currently we have a few in stock, ready for immediate order... If you anticipate needing these items, it may be prudent to put a few away, while readily available. The decision is yours of course.

I don't know if you can read anything into that or not. He seems to be inplying that they won't be getting any more, or is he wording it that way to make a further sale to me?

Luke

Evil is charming and beautiful. It makes you doubt yourself. It asks for one small compromise after another until it whittles you down, and it functions best when no one believes in it.-JOA
Church AV Guy is online now  
post #5 of 19 Old 07-12-2012, 02:18 PM
AVS Special Member
 
jjeff's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Minneapolis MN
Posts: 9,815
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 130 Post(s)
Liked: 90
Glad I got my second EH-59(another referb) last week biggrin.gif
Even at new prices the EH-59 is a bargain, I paid more for my ES-30v combos back in '05(even '05 dollars) and they didn't have a HDD or nearly the features of the EH-59.
jjeff is online now  
post #6 of 19 Old 07-12-2012, 05:26 PM
AVS Special Member
 
CitiBear's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 3,041
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 25 Post(s)
Liked: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Church AV Guy View Post

I asked a followup question about the continued availability of the EH59/69, and here is the answer I was given:
Quote:
I cannot provide info as to sales movement of these items -smile.gif , but currently we have a few in stock, ready for immediate order... If you anticipate needing these items, it may be prudent to put a few away, while readily available. The decision is yours of course.
I don't know if you can read anything into that or not. He seems to be inplying that they won't be getting any more, or is he wording it that way to make a further sale to me?

That sounds like the answer a couple of other forum members have received in the past from both J&R and B&H when asked point-blank about future availability. It seems they don't really know from pallet to pallet on the loading dock if they're going to get what they ordered, and/or they don't want to be caught sitting on too much stock so they always say they have "just a few left" hoping to move them faster. There was actually a dry spell last year when virtually no EH59s or EH69s were available from J&R, B&H, World Imports, or 220electronics for a couple months. This didn't cause the mass AVS panic of the cynical, manipulative Magnavox shortage, but it was noted by jjeff and other Panasonic fans here and elsewhere. Just when we were about to write off the EH59/69, they re-appeared at B&H at the usual prices. So its entirely possible Panasonic makes and ships these in batches as a "scheduled production" item, a tactic empolyed by Nikon for its film scanners and Technics for the SL1200 turntable as demand was winding down. They wait until backorders reach critical mass, and then run off a few hundred. In each case this was a prelude to final discontinuation two or three years later, which is why I'm guessing 2014 end-of-life for the EH59. I wouldn't hesitate in acquiring one ASAP, however: DVD/HDD recorders died off VERY suddenly in Europe last year- almost overnight. Demand just went over a cliff, and since Europe had been single-handedly propping up sales of these recorders long after North America and Japan blew them off, it was a bad omen. Whether Middle Eastern demand can continue to sustain the EH59 is an open question. But with its Swiss-Army-Knife adaptability to both PAL and NTSC via line inputs, the EH59 stands a good chance of survival from the total combined trickles of steady demand from several niche markets.

The other, fancier "FreeView" DVD/HDD and BD/HDD Panasonic Europe models are doomed.
CitiBear is offline  
post #7 of 19 Old 07-13-2012, 10:13 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
Church AV Guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: High Desert, California
Posts: 4,606
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 46 Post(s)
Liked: 55
I guess for this is really just an intellectual exercise, rather than a genuine one. I have "stockpiled" a number of these units, so I am pretty well set for the forseeable future. Still, I'm rather curious about the whole situation. The "last time" I was caught off guard* so this time I'm being aware.

* In 2005 I purchased two EH50s. The next year, Panasoinc came out with the EH55 and EH75. I made a conscious decision to NOT purchase the 2006 models, but wait for the follow-on models in the 2007 model year, thinking that the EH50s were working just fine for me. Well, the 2007 models never appeared, not only from Panasonic, but from ANYBODY. After waiting TOO long for the upcoming HDD equipped models I then frantically purchased my EH55 through eBay, from Canadian merchants who would ship them to the US, for a price of over $600 USD. I managed to get my EH75 on a rare return to B&H. I don't want to get caught unaware again.

Luke

Evil is charming and beautiful. It makes you doubt yourself. It asks for one small compromise after another until it whittles you down, and it functions best when no one believes in it.-JOA
Church AV Guy is online now  
post #8 of 19 Old 07-13-2012, 07:59 PM
Senior Member
 
JMas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Upstate NY
Posts: 342
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I purchased 3 of those EH55s from a Canadian seller on eBay. I also got 2 EH75s from Circuit City when they were closing them out for under $500. The 3 E80Hs I had been using have been sitting in a closet since I replaced them with the EH55s and EH75s. I don't expect to need them again, so I may try to sell them.
JMas is offline  
post #9 of 19 Old 07-14-2012, 02:52 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Ken.F's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: West Rockhill, PA
Posts: 1,767
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 83 Post(s)
Liked: 153
This SmartPlanet article implies Panasonic won't be making any A/V equipment in the near future.
Ken.F is offline  
post #10 of 19 Old 07-14-2012, 08:29 AM
AVS Special Member
 
CitiBear's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 3,041
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 25 Post(s)
Liked: 50
Panasonic will likely never stop making all A/V gear: while it hasn't turned a significant profit for any mfr since the early '90s, it is a key component of overall cash flow. If Panasonic stops making A/V gear, they're dead. Same thing with Sony, which was already in serious trouble before it stupidly sank unrecoverable billions into the asinine BD vs HD-DVD war with Toshiba instead of immediately cooperating on a unified standard. If Sony drops A/V gear, poof, no more Sony. The two rivals recently inked a deal to develop and market next-generation "affordable" large-screen OLED televisions, since both have been hemorrhaging money as their TV divisions get hammered by Samsung. Ironic, given thats exactly what Panasonic and Sony did to American TV mfrs in the 1970s. Sony is still doing quite well in professional A/V gear, and since Panasonic follows right on their heels trying to snag the same customers they will probably maintain their involvement with digital imaging. Plus, Panasonic pretty much has a lock on the market for dual-purpose semi-pro "EVIL" digital still/video cameras.

The emphasis on green technology at the Panasonic exhibition hall is a smokescreen to give the impression Panasonic is doing something, anything, new and exciting and unrelated to profitless consumer A/V. They'll learn soon enough they can't win against the Chinese (who have already pulled the rug out from under every "great green hope" industry in every other country). They may have been prodded into the green thing by the Japanese government, which is not keen on the possibility of titans like Sony or Panasonic failing.
CitiBear is offline  
post #11 of 19 Old 07-14-2012, 08:06 PM
Advanced Member
 
Super Eye's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 948
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Liked: 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken.F View Post

This SmartPlanet article implies Panasonic won't be making any A/V equipment in the near future.

I said it before I’ll say it again.
Sony and Panasonic are the two biggest suppliers of cameras, decks and formats to the international broadcast and production community. In fact Sony and Panasonic invent about 99 percent of the broadcast and professional formats.

Just since my time in the business (1980) Panasonic invented MII (which is a pro version of analog component using VHS tape shells, D5, HD-D5 which is a pro version of DVHS, DVCpro25, DVCpro50, which are pro versions of miniDV and DVCpro100 which is HD. Panasonic's latest format is called P2 which runs the DVCpro codecs on memory sticks.

Since the same time Sony invented (analog) Betacam, BetacamSP, (digital) BetacamSX, BetacamIMX, HDCAM (which is also on Betacam tape) HDCamSR and a professional version of Blu-Ray called XDCam which comes in many codecs. They also came out with DVcam tape which is a pro version of miniDV.

The broadcast and professional production community uses those formats almost exclusively. A Sony mastering HDCam-SR deck will run you over $100,000 each not including options. A Sony XDCam camera like CBS, CNN, ABC, CTV among others use will run you $40,000 each not including accessories. Sony sold tens of thousands of these cameras alone since 2004.

I am sure I missed some formats in my above ramble. Also, Sony and Panasonic both are still big suppliers of professional grade TV monitors. So it may be that both Sony and Panasonic are getting out of “leading” the consumer electronics market but I wouldn’t cut either company out of the loop just yet. It may be a little harder to lead the consumer market with buyers wanting disposable and cheap crap now-a-days and the fact that cheap knock-offs from Korea are flooding the market. But it is important to remember that Sony and Panasonic “invent” most of the new technology via their broadcast and professional research and development and that technology trickles down to the consumer market.

So it may be that at the moment both companies are almost exclusively concentrating on the broadcast and production community were they still have a very strong, almost exclusive hold on that market and just playing the wait and see game with consumer electronics until an opportunity comes to once again take hold and lead consumer electronics. Remember no other company has such a hold in Research and Development due to Sony and Panasonic almost exclusively controlling the pro sales of cameras, decks and formats.
Super Eye is offline  
post #12 of 19 Old 07-18-2012, 02:48 PM
Member
 
DocCarbon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Planet Earth
Posts: 168
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
By my ultra limited take on this situation , it's looking bleak if a single manufacturer is too produce those DVDR/HDD ATSC units , an if they don't !. ?? then .
DocCarbon is offline  
post #13 of 19 Old 07-18-2012, 04:12 PM
AVS Special Member
 
CitiBear's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 3,041
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 25 Post(s)
Liked: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by DocCarbon View Post

By my ultra limited take on this situation , it's looking bleak if a single manufacturer is too produce those DVDR/HDD ATSC units , an if they don't !. ?? then .

In North America, that has been the case since 2007: only Funai has marketed a DVD/HDD recorder with ATSC tuner (essentially the same model unchanged for five years). They began dying off in Europe and Asia more recently, with Panasonic being last man standing for the past two years or so. What we're witnessing is the end of a format life cycle, it just happened way faster than expected. If I had to choose a final nail, it was the rapid adoption of large screen HDTVs: DVD recorders are a nonsensical companion to a 50" television, they're strictly for hobbyists willing to use smaller screens and accept standard def in exchange for the ability to build a custom library. The number of such people is dwindling fast: youTube and HDD-only automated HiDef PVRs have taken over the living room.

The fact that Funai is actually going to release three more Magnavox models into this near-dead USA market is nothing short of astonishing. Nice for those who still want one, but a real headscratcher of a business decision. The Panasonic EH59 has a wider global market as a multi-region multi-format recorder, so some tiny business case can be made for its continued production. Funai is apparently not selling DVD/HDD recorders anywhere else in the world, why they'd renew their sole exposure to a relentlessly hostile USA market is baffling. And yes, I'm aware every AVS member and his mother wants one: but we aren't the typical consumers.
CitiBear is offline  
post #14 of 19 Old 07-18-2012, 05:17 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Kelson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Delaware - The First State (USA)
Posts: 10,087
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 285 Post(s)
Liked: 358
Quote:
Originally Posted by CitiBear View Post

And yes, I'm aware every AVS member and his mother wants one: but we aren't the typical consumers.
Nor all that plentiful. And of course everyone knows the AVS battle-cry -- "don't buy new, wait for the 'refurbs'".
A head scratcher indeed.

- kelson h

The bitterness of poor quality lasts long after the sweetness of the low price is forgotten . . . life is too short to drink bad wine

Kelson is offline  
post #15 of 19 Old 07-18-2012, 05:33 PM
Advanced Member
 
Super Eye's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 948
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Liked: 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by CitiBear View Post

They [DVD/HDD recorders] began dying off in Europe and Asia more recently, with Panasonic being last man standing for the past two years or so.

LG still sells HDD/DVD recorders in Aus and UK. I haven’t checked the availability of the 2 Aus models but the three UK models are available online and in stores for British customers.

Aus:
LG RH397D 160GB
http://www.lg.com/au/tv-audio-video/video/LG-dvd-hdd-recorder-RH397D.jsp

LG RH399D 320GB
http://www.lg.com/au/tv-audio-video/video/LG-dvd-hdd-recorder-RH399D.jsp

UK:
LG RHT497H 160Gb
http://www.lg.com/uk/blu-ray-dvd-players/lg-RHT497H-dvd-player

LG RHT498H 250Gb
http://www.lg.com/uk/blu-ray-dvd-players/lg-RHT498H-digital-tv-recorder

LG RHT599 500GB
http://www.lg.com/uk/blu-ray-dvd-players/lg-RHT599H-dvd-player

Not including ATSC tuners, LG was the last man standing in Canada and even outlived the Canadian 2008 Sony RDR-HX780 that was available until mid 2010 or so. The LG DVD/HDD (NTSC only) was available in Canada at least until May 2011 according to this AVS thread (See em-t-wallitt's last post date in thread)
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1251389/canada-lg-rh398h-m-dvdr-with-250-gb-hdd

We can’t count the Magnavox recorders as North American (including Canada) as they aren’t and never were sold in Canada with Canadian support and warrantee and are available only as gray-market products to Canadians.mad.gif
Super Eye is offline  
post #16 of 19 Old 07-19-2012, 09:35 AM
AVS Special Member
 
CitiBear's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 3,041
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 25 Post(s)
Liked: 50
You got me on the LGs, but these probably sold better in Canada than anywhere else and were pulled from USA in 2007 along with all the other brands. Today they have such a low profile in Europe/Aus they may as well not be available. Appearing on the LG website means little: Funai has a number of products on its EU website, including interesting DVD/VHS/HDD recorders, that you'd be hard pressed to actually purchase (and Pioneer stopped making recorders in 2008 yet they still appear on some regional Pio sites). The most popular DVD/HDD recorders in Europe, Australia and NZ were Sony by a large margin (DVB-T variants of your own Canadian RDR-HX780) followed by Panasonic. LG was a back of the line also-ran well behind Funai-based DVD/VHS/HDD Toshiba models. The continued presence of the LGs in EU/Aus is more baffling than the 2012 renewal of the USA Maganvox: Funai can at least count on WalMart as a "strategic partner" for a wide range of other product lines, LG doesn't have a similar affiliated EU retail giant.

Sony shot itself in the foot by pulling the plug on its excellent Sony/Pioneer chassis in favor of chintzy crappy stripped DVD/HDD recorders OEM'd by Samsung, these were so bad they killed Sony's healthy EU recorder business literally overnight. Having already agreed to give Panasonic a worldwide exclusive on luxury BD/HDD recorders, Sony had nothing left EU consumers wanted and bowed out. Toshiba dropped all its EU Funai HDD models. JVC was long gone after its early DVD/HDD debacles. This left Panasonic as the last "big name" recorder brand, selling watered-down versions of its earlier better DVD/HDD and BD/HDD models. These are fading fast, as value-priced no-name Humax/TiVO type Hi Def HDD recorders with built-in BD players (not recorders) and multiple FreeView/Satellite tuners are building momentum.

About five years ago, Toshiba and several other big players in the memory chip industry got into advanced discussions and prototypes sponsored by Hollywood for a proposed HiDef solid state recorder based on a MicroSD memory card variation. For once, Hollywood seemed in tune with the times and was hoping to capitalize on cell phones with bigger screens and the coming tablet revolution by adopting a truly portable format. But chip prices couldn't come down fast enough to make the concept practical at retail (and perhaps Apple wouldn't play along or tip its hand), so the concept died.
CitiBear is offline  
post #17 of 19 Old 07-19-2012, 11:00 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
Church AV Guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: High Desert, California
Posts: 4,606
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 46 Post(s)
Liked: 55
Quote:
In North America, that has been the case since 2007: only Funai has marketed a DVD/HDD recorder with ATSC tuner (essentially the same model unchanged for five years).

The same is true of the international Panasonic's. They are available, but not marketed (at leat, not by Panasonic:)),and they have been availble since 2009 at least.
Quote:
What we're witnessing is the end of a format life cycle, it just happened way faster than expected.

That's the way I see it too.
Quote:
DVD recorders are a nonsensical companion to a 50" television

Hey! I have DVD recorders, and a 55" television. The SD DVDs I make from my DirecTV DVR from downrezed HD sources look very good.
Quote:
The Panasonic EH59 has a wider global market as a multi-region multi-format recorder, so some tiny business case can be made for its continued production.

To be sure, the US is a VERY small part of the market for the EH59/69. I very much doubt that Panasonic even counts it. If it were an issue at all, they would attempt to stop the sales here, but it is so minute, it isn't even worth pursuing.
Quote:
And yes, I'm aware every AVS member and his mother wants one: but we aren't the typical consumers.

No! We are certainly not.biggrin.gif

Luke

Evil is charming and beautiful. It makes you doubt yourself. It asks for one small compromise after another until it whittles you down, and it functions best when no one believes in it.-JOA
Church AV Guy is online now  
post #18 of 19 Old 07-19-2012, 03:28 PM
Advanced Member
 
Super Eye's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 948
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Liked: 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by CitiBear View Post

Today they [LG DVD/HDD recorders] have such a low profile in Europe/Aus they may as well not be available. Appearing on the LG website means little: Funai has a number of products on its EU website, including interesting DVD/VHS/HDD recorders, that you'd be hard pressed to actually purchase (and Pioneer stopped making recorders in 2008 yet they still appear on some regional Pio sites).

On the LG site there is a ‘where to buy” option and I checked on the LG RHT599 500GB
and (today) it’s available online as well as at a few retailers. I clicked on the retailers
1) PC World = available online and in store.
2) Curries = available online and in store.
3) Richer Sounds = available online and in store.
4) Amazon.co.uk = In stock. Dispatched from and sold by Amazon.co.uk

Clicking on this link
http://www.idealo.co.uk/compare/3298063/lg-rht599h.html
popped up ten retailers selling the unit.
So it seems that the unit is plentiful and avaible from many retailers. In fact it seems more widely available than the Magnavox is/was in the USA.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CitiBear View Post

The most popular DVD/HDD recorders in Europe, Australia and NZ were Sony by a large margin (DVB-T variants of your own Canadian RDR-HX780) followed by Panasonic. LG was a back of the line also-ran well behind Funai-based DVD/VHS/HDD Toshiba models. The continued presence of the LGs in EU/Aus is more baffling than the 2012 renewal of the USA Maganvox: Funai can at least count on WalMart as a "strategic partner" for a wide range of other product lines, LG doesn't have a similar affiliated EU retail giant.

Yeah, I remember just a few years ago I checked Sony consumer UK and they had a few variants of the 780 decked out with digital tuners and other features for the UK and they had good reviews. Well maybe Funai can count on WalMArt but it seems LG, at least in the UK has many retailers to count on. In-store as well as on-line. This of course could change overnight as I agree that DVD/HDD recorders are pretty well dead but hey if Funai can do it in the USA than I guess LG can do it in the UK.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CitiBear View Post

Sony shot itself in the foot by pulling the plug on its excellent Sony/Pioneer chassis in favor of chintzy crappy stripped DVD/HDD recorders OEM'd by Samsung, these were so bad they killed Sony's healthy EU recorder business literally overnight. Having already agreed to give Panasonic a worldwide exclusive on luxury BD/HDD recorders, Sony had nothing left EU consumers wanted and bowed out.

My only guess is that DVD/HDD sales were so low that Sony planned on cutting out of the DVD/HDD consumer market and wanted to concentrate solely on broadcast & pro optical sales – were to my knowledge they still don’t outsource. I know Sony’s broadcast and pro optical units are selling so fast that there are back-orders from time to time. Maybe Samsing convinced Sony to supply consumer units by putting together some sweet deal on paper. Giving Panasonic a worldwide exclusive on luxury consumer BD/HDD recorders is very baffling to me. Because these two companies are the largest rivals in broadcast and production and in B&P they don’t do each other’s pro formats and both companies have many pro format offerings.

Getting back to consumer LG DVD/HDD recorders – to me it seems that they are doing better in the UK then Funai is doing in the USA but that’s just my opinion based on what I see on the net.
Super Eye is offline  
post #19 of 19 Old 07-24-2012, 07:24 AM
AVS Special Member
 
CitiBear's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 3,041
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 25 Post(s)
Liked: 50
Thanks for the links- I hadn't given a good thorough look at UK retailers since April or May. At that time there was virtually nothing advertised except Panasonic DVD/HDD and BD/HDD, all other options were "TiVOs" with built-in BD players.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Super Eye View Post

Getting back to consumer LG DVD/HDD recorders – to me it seems that they are doing better in the UK then Funai is doing in the USA but that’s just my opinion based on what I see on the net.

Yes, it would seem the similarities to the Magnavox game plan are striking. This must be a relatively new development, since LG had been playing dead in EU recorders as recently. as this past spring. Yet LG now appears to be following the Funai/Magnavox USA path of "lets plug away at being last man standing and see if that eventually pools the remaining buyers in our direction rather than toward timeshift HDD boxes and HTPCs." Time will reveal how well this scheme works for both brands, although there will be interesting differences given the different market regions (i.e. LG is still momentarily up against dwindling powerhouse Panasonic in Europe, while Magnavox has zero competition in USA).

Quote:
My only guess is that DVD/HDD sales were so low that Sony planned on cutting out of the DVD/HDD consumer market and wanted to concentrate solely on broadcast & pro optical sales – were to my knowledge they still don’t outsource. I know Sony’s broadcast and pro optical units are selling so fast that there are back-orders from time to time. Maybe Samsing convinced Sony to supply consumer units by putting together some sweet deal on paper.

I don't think they would ever outsource the "pro" gear, but the DVD recorders have been coo-op deals with Pioneer or outright OEMs with Samsung since at least 2006, perhaps earlier in Europe. Maybe after Pioneer bailed it just seemed simpler to merge both DVD/VHS and DVD/HDD under Samsung input, but it really soured EU consumers on Sony.

Quote:
Giving Panasonic a worldwide exclusive on luxury consumer BD/HDD recorders is very baffling to me. Because these two companies are the largest rivals in broadcast and production and in B&P they don’t do each other’s pro formats and both companies have many pro format offerings.

At the time it was quite shocking, but Sony was very clear it wanted to concentrate on worldwide BD players/PS3 and only sell BD recorders in the Japanese home market. The coverage I saw was in print media industry journals, so I never thought to pursue the issue further online. Now I wish I had, because the specifics of the agreement were really interesting and I can't remember the fine points all these years later. Sony definitely got something out of it, and it was at some cost to Panasonic.
CitiBear is offline  
Reply DVD Recorders (Standard Def)

Tags
Panasonic

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off