Using FR speed on a Panasonic DMR-E95? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 25 Old 07-23-2012, 06:09 PM - Thread Starter
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Another long weekend project in UGLY Minnesota weather. I don't know how southerners put up with all this heat and humidity. I have to work inside on weekends like this. I decided to transfer a PBS Les Meserables concert that I recorded to Hi8 tape back in 1995 to a DVD. I wasn't thinking ahead and I should have realized the reason it was on 2 tapes was because it was too long to fit on one 2 hour tape. I transfered those tapes to my E95 HDD at the SP speed and now after all pledge breaks have been edited out, the end concert is 2 hours and 15 minutes long. I sure would like to fit it all on 1 DVD and another copy on 1 DVD-RAM. If I remember right the maximum SP length that a DVD-R will hold is around 2 hours and 9 minutes? A DVD-RAM holds less, probably around 2 hours and 3 minutes?
I have never used the FR speed on my E95 and I just read my E95 manual and I know even less now.
Is it possible to DUB that 2:15 program from the HDD to a DVD-RAM or a DVD-R using that FR speed? I would of coarse like to retain the SP quality but probably at some time setting the recorded quality will probably drop to what I think jjeff called 1/2 D1?
Maybe I have to start all over and capture those 2 tapes again using the FR speed to the HDD? If I do, the length of the program including the stuff I have to edit out, will be around 2 hours and 45 minutes. If I set the FR speed to 2 hours and 15 minutes (the length after editing) will the recording stop when it hits that 2:15 time or will it keep going until I manually stop it?
This job is so long that I sure would like some guidance before I attempt something that is impossible. I may have to settle for having it on 2 separate DVD-R's and DVD-RAM's?

Dave
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post #2 of 25 Old 07-23-2012, 07:33 PM
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I don't have a E95 but do have the same year('04) hdd-less E55(and the previous years E80H) which both act the same way and I would assume your E95 would be similar.
Using FR the maximum amount of time you can set it for and still retain full D1 is 2hrs 4 minutes. Setting FR for 2h4m, a few seconds less than 2hrs 4 minutes your recording will stop and you will have 1 title of approximately 4000MB. A better solution to get the maximum amount of time on your DVDR is for you to use SP where as you've noted allow you to put ~2hrs 9 minutes(2hrs 7 to 2hrs 8 minutes for '05 and newer Panasonics).

You are correct that RAM discs hold less, a -R disc holds 4409MB where a RAM disc is 4341MB max.
Changing the speed during a dub would require a re-encode even worse, with your model DVDR it would require changing to 1/2 D1 which will also reduce picture quality.
I don't know what to tell you, if you had the next years Panasonic('05 or newer) you could do a re-encode on your title and use FR set to 2hrs 16. Of course this would still be a re-encode but would still be full D1('05 and newer Panasonics retain full D1 to LP) unfortunately this doesn't help just using a E95.

The bad part about FR is you can't set a speed(say 2hrs 16 minutes) and record for 3hrs and then delete material until you get to 2hrs 16 minutes and then burn to DVD. FR stops at whatever time you've set it for, if you delete material you end up with less than would fit on a full DVD. If your going to have more than one title on your DVD you can use FR and edit it down but it takes some figuring. For example say you wanted to have 2 titles on a DVD and both would edit down to 1hr 8 minutes. You would set FR for 2hrs 16 minutes for each title. After your first title has finished playing on your source you could push STOP on your DVDR. Then edit your your commercials and in the end you should have one title ~2GBs in size(if it were me I would initially set FR closer to 2hrs 8 minutes which would make your final title closer to 2.2GBs(1/2 a full -R DVD) but then again I hate to waste disc space(or reduce bitrate.) You'd do the same for your other title. Of course with a E95 your titles would both be 1/2 D1 frown.gif

I guess what I'm getting to is it's not possible to have more than 2hrs 9 minutes(less for RAM) of full D1 resolution on a DVD using a E95, using FR or not. With '05 and newer Panasonics this limitation does not exist and you can get closer to 4hrs 14-16 minutes/DVD and with '06 and newer closer to 8hrs using a DL blank. If you want full D1 with your title on your E95 you will need to use 2 DVDs, that or edit your material more, down to 2hrs 9 minutes smile.gif
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post #3 of 25 Old 07-23-2012, 09:18 PM
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It's been a very long time since I've done any FR recording on my Pannys. My hdd model E85H died a few years ago, leaving me with an ES30V, EZ47, & EZ48, which went out on me last year. There are 2 involved options for getting the best SP or close to SP quality if you can handle it. This is of course, based on using those models, I have no experience with the E95.

The first option would be to babysit the recording, and fast forward the tapes while dubbing to the hdd or RAM. Set the FR length for at least 2hr 20min for wiggle room, and fast forward thru the pledge breaks. And in case you weren't aware of this, you can pause recording during FR (at least on the EZs), so changing the tape won't burn up any time. When finished, snip away the fast fowarded pledge breaks, and you should end up with a recording that can fit onto a single disc or RAM.

 

The second (time saving-but still involved) option, is to go for a recording that will be less than the 2 hr SP mode picture quality, but slightly higher than the 4hr LP mode. Set FR mode for 2 hrs 40 mins, and play the tape...FF thru a couple of pledge breaks on the first tape (to ensure the rest can fit so you can leave it unattended, coming back to swap the tapes out. Edit out the breaks, and you'll have a recording that'll fit on a single disc. Depending on the quality of the tapes, and the tv you'll be watching on, you may not notice the difference between a pure SP or higher than LP mode recording.

 

If you feel like getting fancy, and depending on the transition from the end of the 1st tape to the start of the 2nd, for procedure#2, you could record the 2nd shorter tape first, then switch to the second, ff-ing thru a couple of breaks. You wouldn't have to sit thru the entire thing this way. Then use the Playlist feature to construct a playlist for dubbing to disc. You'd place the start of the concert first, editing out the breaks, and then place the last part after it. Umm. the E95 can create playlists, can't it?

 

Just a couple of ideas to throw your way. Someone else may offer a more streamlined and accurate way to get what you want done.


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post #4 of 25 Old 07-24-2012, 08:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveC E100 View Post

the end concert is 2 hours and 15 minutes long.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jjeff View Post

I guess what I'm getting to is it's not possible to have more than 2hrs 9 minutes(less for RAM) of full D1 resolution on a DVD using a E95, using FR or not.
Well after some testing I found a way, but it requires you to have 2 titles(not one continuous one) and will only work dubbing to a -R(because a RAM holds less MBs, using a RAM 2:13 is the max).
How you would do this is to record your tapes into 2 separate titles(neither longer than 2hrs 4 minutes) setting FR to 2hrs 4 minutes. You can then edit down each title and in the end if you add the times together they should equal your 2hrs 15 minutes. As long at the equal of those 2 titles isn't more than 2hrs 15 minutes you should be able to HS dub them to a -R DVD(they should =~4402 MB where as a -R holds a max of 4409MBs).
This would mean you would have to rerecord your tapes and edit them, something you may not want to do, but theoretically it would be possible. You couldn't do this as one title because setting your E95's FR to 2hrs 15 minutes would result in it switching to 1/2 D1. This is kind of a work around for that limitation.
Oh and as Westly-C said you can pause when recording in FR but you still can't get a title longer than you've initially set it for.
I'm guessing this is way to complicated but I just wanted to point out it is possible.
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post #5 of 25 Old 07-24-2012, 09:59 AM
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What jjeff said is correct. His original advice is what I also would suggest.
Quote:
If you want full D1 with your title on your E95 you will need to use 2 DVDs, that or edit your material more, down to 2hrs 9 minutes.

The issue I have with FR recording is that for some UNFATHOMABLE reason, Panasonic makes its FR recordings so the time you enter, fits into about 4000Mb. The DVD-R disks are 4400MB (yeah, yeah, approximately) so you are only using 90% of the disk. There is no way to fool the machine into using the whole disk. The only solution, which jjeff also said, is to make any "title" into two titles, not one continuous. With a little math you can arrive at what FR length you need to use in order to completely fill the disk. This is the only way to use FR to fill a DL disk (your machine does not support DL disks, but newer ones do, and Panasonic has not included any direct FR support into any of their machines frown.gif We are left with fiddling with times and multiple titles to get a single piece of content on a DL disk using the whole disk)

You are greatly in luck in this case. You actually KNOW the edited length of the content. This is unusual in my experience, so I have had to guess, using more time than necessary for a "safety" margin. Your biggest problem is, if you select a time much longer than 2 hours, the machine cuts the resolution in half. frown.gif

If I were you, I would attempt to edit out unnecessary bits of the concert (credits are the first to go in these cases) until you get it down to a size that will fit on a -R. Getting to fir on a -RAM will require even more extensive careful edditing. If this careful editing is not possible, then you have no choice but to attempt to re-record the concert using FR and the times that jjeff as suggested.

Good luck, and tell us what you decided to do, and how it turned out.

Luke

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post #6 of 25 Old 07-24-2012, 12:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Church AV Guy View Post

...There is no way to fool the machine into using the whole disk....
Actually there is a way but it requires using a Panasonic EZ recorder to "prep" the DVDs and then record real time on a non EZ recorder(the international EH-59 also does not show the extra space). I didn't bring this up to the OP for a couple reasons: 1.) I'm getting way too complicated anyway and 2.) the OP doesn't have a EZ recorder. Prepping extra long FR discs is the main use of my EZ-28, I usually do 20-30 at a time and put them in a special spindle only for use when I want a 4400MB single FR title. I guess I could also use the discs for 2hrs 7 minute real time SP discs but since I have HDD recorders that allow one to HS 4400 MBs to a DVD I use that method instead(first record to HDD and then HS to DVD).
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post #7 of 25 Old 07-24-2012, 01:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjeff View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Church AV Guy View Post

...There is no way to fool the machine into using the whole disk....
Actually there is a way but it requires using a Panasonic EZ recorder to "prep" the DVDs and then record real time on a non EZ recorder(the international EH-59 also does not show the extra space). I didn't bring this up to the OP for a couple reasons: 1.) I'm getting way too complicated anyway and 2.) the OP doesn't have a EZ recorder. Prepping extra long FR discs is the main use of my EZ-28, I usually do 20-30 at a time and put them in a special spindle only for use when I want a 4400MB single FR title. I guess I could also use the discs for 2hrs 7 minute real time SP discs but since I have HDD recorders that allow one to HS 4400 MBs to a DVD I use that method instead(first record to HDD and then HS to DVD).

Okay, okay! Yes, you have a Rube-Goldberg work-around. What I should have said, and what I meant was, there is no way, when using FR record mode, to fool HIS machine into using the whole disk with a single title/single recording. He can do it with two separate recordings, but the machine will always default to ~4000Mb for a single recording. THAT really annoys me. not much about the Panasonic's annoy me, but that does.

Luke

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post #8 of 25 Old 07-24-2012, 06:18 PM - Thread Starter
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You guys are absolutely amazing with your knowledge and willingness to share it. Thank You so much! I just powered up my E95 to see if I could apply what I read. Since the purpose of FR (Flexible Recording) as I see it, is to fit a fixed length program into a disk space that is either larger or smaller than the program length (I hope I am right about that). In my case I want to fit a program that is too large for the space available on my DVD-R or DVD-RAM. So I am allowed to enter the program length into the FR menu. If I understand you guys right my E95 will assume a 4000 MB destination size if I insert an empty DVD-R or DVD-RAM? I can understand that but how does it know the destination size if I want to FR record to my HDD which has about 70 hours of empty space at the SP speed? I just tried that by selecting the Flexible Recording button in the Functions menu with the HDD selected. It gave me a screen to enter the recording time for about 1 second and then the screen went black. I assume that is the way Panasonic is telling me that I can't do a FR recording to the HDD?
Am I correct in assuming that the way the destination size is determined is by what the E95 measures on the disk when I insert it? It can't do that on the HDD so it just blanks out my TV screen?

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post #9 of 25 Old 07-25-2012, 06:57 AM
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FR can be used in a couple of ways. The simplest is when making a recording to either the HDD or a new DVD. In this case you set FR for the duration of your recording and after that time your recording will automatically stop and you will have 1 file of about the size of a standard DVD(4000MB). Recording to the HDD always tries to do this(make a 4000MB file, unless you manually push STOP during the recording) but if you are recording to a partially used DVD FR will determine the size left and set the bitrate so the 1 title(that you've set the FR time for) will use up the majority of that space.
Another use for FR is when dubbing from HDD to DVD(what you are trying to do) if your title is too large for the DVD. One method would be to use a slower speed(for example LP) but if your title was 2hrs 15 minutes and you reencoded using LP you'd be wasting almost half the DVD space. In this case FR would be a good option and if you set FR for 2hrs 16 minutes(always give yourself 1 extra minute when using FR) and your DVD will be reencoded in a speed that will basically fill up the DVD(4000MBs) with your one title in a speed better than LP.
The issue I'm trying to work around with your E95 is setting FR for more than 2hrs 4 minutes will result in the recorder switching to a lower resolution, which I believe you were trying to avoid? Because of this limitation of your E95 is why both Luke and I would suggest splitting your title into 2 separate titles, that or keep it in SP and just use 2 DVDs(by far the easiest option, that or just use FR set to 2hrs 16 minutes and live with the reduced resolution).

Using FR in the manner than Luke and I use it, isn't really what it was designed for(multiple titles on one DVD and pushing STOP before the recording is done) but we're basically trying to make FR act like multiple in between speeds similar to Pioneer or Toshibas MN option. Because it wasn't really designed for this we must go though lots of gyrations but in the end we basically get what we want.

If your not willing(really don't want) to re record your tapes then your best two options is to either split your title into 2 DVDs(best picture quality) or re encode your title using FR to a single DVD(in which case you'd lose some resolution and also slightly degrade the picture quality because of the re encode).

For the best of both worlds(1 DVD and full resolution) you'd have to re record your tapes using FR and in the end, end up with 2 titles on that DVD. If this is what you want you would have to revisit my post #4 but be warned it does seem rather complicated and probably not the best for first time FR users...
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post #10 of 25 Old 07-25-2012, 07:49 AM
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Dave, what you want to do would be so easy using a PC.
Split the recording on the E95 to put it on 2 disks in full fidelity.
Sneaker-net the disks to your PC.
Using DVD Shrink, join the two segments and do a 2-pass transcode to lower the bitrate and shrink the recording down to fit on a DVD-R.

Are you willing to give it a try?

- kelson h

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post #11 of 25 Old 07-25-2012, 08:56 AM
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^^^ sounds like the best option smile.gif
Kelson, when you use Shrink to join the two segments will they show up as 2 or just one title(if 2 will their be a slight pause when changing titles, like our DVDRs do)? His compression will be very small, I'd guess less than 10%(or 90% as Shrink calls it) and should not be noticeable at all. Oh also, does shrink ever change the resolution or does it only lessen the bitrate? I would think the latter because when compressing a lot(50%) the picture gets very blocky, IMO.
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post #12 of 25 Old 07-25-2012, 09:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjeff View Post

^^^ sounds like the best option smile.gif
Kelson, when you use Shrink to join the two segments will they show up as 2 or just one title(if 2 will their be a slight pause when changing titles, like our DVDRs do)? His compression will be very small, I'd guess less than 10%(or 90% as Shrink calls it) and should not be noticeable at all. Oh also, does shrink ever change the resolution or does it only lessen the bitrate? I would think the latter because when compressing a lot(50%) the picture gets very blocky, IMO.
They will actually be put on the disk as two titles but since there is no menu the first title will play immediately and most DVD players will play the second title immediately after the first. If it's an older player that doesn't auto play the second, a tap on the chapter skip button ( ->| ) will start the next segment. There may be a slight pause between segments so it is best to make the cut at a logical breakpoint like commercial or pledge drive. If you use an editing program like Video ReDo you can seamlessly join the segments together. I don't know if Windows Movie Maker can do it or not.

Shirink only changes bitrate. It is important to go into settings and select the highest quality setting and deep analysis so you get the 2-pass encoding. It takes longer but the results are worth it 1-pass encoding never looks good to me.

Video ReDo also has 2-pass encoders to shrink an oversize compilation down to fit on a DVD-R. I've found them to be very good. It also has DVD authoring tools to make menus, etc.

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post #13 of 25 Old 07-25-2012, 04:07 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by jjeff View Post

FR can be used in a couple of ways. The simplest is when making a recording to either the HDD or a new DVD. In this case you set FR for the duration of your recording and after that time your recording will automatically stop and you will have 1 file of about the size of a standard DVD(4000MB). Recording to the HDD always tries to do this(make a 4000MB file, unless you manually push STOP during the recording) but if you are recording to a partially used DVD FR will determine the size left and set the bitrate so the 1 title(that you've set the FR time for) will use up the majority of that space.
Another use for FR is when dubbing from HDD to DVD(what you are trying to do) if your title is too large for the DVD. One method would be to use a slower speed(for example LP) but if your title was 2hrs 15 minutes and you reencoded using LP you'd be wasting almost half the DVD space. In this case FR would be a good option and if you set FR for 2hrs 16 minutes(always give yourself 1 extra minute when using FR) and your DVD will be reencoded in a speed that will basically fill up the DVD(4000MBs) with your one title in a speed better than LP.
The issue I'm trying to work around with your E95 is setting FR for more than 2hrs 4 minutes will result in the recorder switching to a lower resolution, which I believe you were trying to avoid? Because of this limitation of your E95 is why both Luke and I would suggest splitting your title into 2 separate titles, that or keep it in SP and just use 2 DVDs(by far the easiest option, that or just use FR set to 2hrs 16 minutes and live with the reduced resolution).
Using FR in the manner than Luke and I use it, isn't really what it was designed for(multiple titles on one DVD and pushing STOP before the recording is done) but we're basically trying to make FR act like multiple in between speeds similar to Pioneer or Toshibas MN option. Because it wasn't really designed for this we must go though lots of gyrations but in the end we basically get what we want.
If your not willing(really don't want) to re record your tapes then your best two options is to either split your title into 2 DVDs(best picture quality) or re encode your title using FR to a single DVD(in which case you'd lose some resolution and also slightly degrade the picture quality because of the re encode).
For the best of both worlds(1 DVD and full resolution) you'd have to re record your tapes using FR and in the end, end up with 2 titles on that DVD. If this is what you want you would have to revisit my post #4 but be warned it does seem rather complicated and probably not the best for first time FR users...

Last night I was trying to recapture my video tapes to the E95 HDD but my E95 wouldn't let me set ANY time into the FR time setting box. In less than 1 second it blacked out my TV screen so I assumed that I am not allowed to FR to my HDD. But it sounds like you have done that? Maybe on later models they allow FR to the HDD? Maybe I am doing something wrong but I can't figure out just what that could be?
Dubbing what I have on the HDD (all 2 hours and 15 minutes) to a DVD-R and DVD-RAM at a lower resolution is not what I want to do. I would rather just divide the long program and HS dub it to 2 disks.
What I was thinking about trying since the FR to the HDD failed is to take a blank DVD-RAM and put about 20 minutes of junk on it. There is a pledge break at the 1 hr & 50 min point in the concert. So I would FR to that DVD-RAM, the video tape with the FR setting of about 1:51. That should compress that 1:51 down to about 1:40 on the DVD-RAM? Then put about 1 hr & 40 min of junk on a 2nd DVD-RAM and FR the remaining 25 minutes of the concert into that remaining 20 min space on that 2nd DVD-RAM. Effectively I think I have shrunk 2 hr &15 min concert by 15 minutes (I think)?
Now I would HS dub those 2 shrunken segments to the HDD and fine tune the transition point and then HS dub those 2 files to a 3rd DVD-RAM and a DVD-R. Almost certainly there is something wrong with that plan but I won't know what it is until I try it.
It still bothers me that you can FR to your HDD and I can't. I hope it is because you have a newer model than I do but maybe it is because I am too thick in the head?

Dave
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post #14 of 25 Old 07-25-2012, 04:28 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelson View Post

Dave, what you want to do would be so easy using a PC.
Split the recording on the E95 to put it on 2 disks in full fidelity.
Sneaker-net the disks to your PC.
Using DVD Shrink, join the two segments and do a 2-pass transcode to lower the bitrate and shrink the recording down to fit on a DVD-R.
Are you willing to give it a try?

I am always willing to try almost anything but you may not realize just how ignorant I am about everything you have mentioned. I have no clue just what "Sneaker-net" is? I have never heard that term before.
The only thing that I have with an Internet connection is my Acer 5720-6497 laptop running Vista. The built-in burner is that failed HD format (not blue ray). It reads and plays standard CD's and DVD's but I have never burned anything on it. I don't have any burning software that I know of. I have heard of DVD Shrink but I have never seen it. I am pretty sure that my burner can't read DVD-RAM but I have not tried it.

What you suggest certainly sounds interesting but the amount of hand holding I would need would drive you insane and I just couldn't burden you with the task.

I still have hopes for the FR feature on my E95 but that to may be a lost cause.

Dave
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post #15 of 25 Old 07-25-2012, 05:01 PM
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It still bothers me that you can FR to your HDD and I can't. I hope it is because you have a newer model than I do but maybe it is because I am too thick in the head?
Dave
I've used FR to the HDD on both a E80H(one year older than your E95) and '05 and newer HDD Panasonics(I've also used FR on the HDD less E55 which is the same year as your E95), I can't understand what might be the issue confused.gif
To access FR on older Panasonics you push FUNCTIONS then arrow to DUBBING and hit enter. That should bring up a box that defaults to 8hrs(or 6hrs if you've setup EP for 6hrs instead of 8). You either use up and down to enter your time or direct enter the time(for example 2 for hours and 16 for minutes). I can't think of a setting that would prohibit FR, it's one of the main attractions to Panasonic DVDR.....maybe someone else has a thought? You might also want to read your manual and check out the part dealing with FR, I've never experienced what is sounds like you are.
BTW I see your also located in the twin cities, I live on the south side, if you lived near I wouldn't mind stopping by at some time to see if I could figure things out. If you lived north(Anoka, etc.) it would probably take me a bit longer before I was in your area. You could PM me with your address if you wanted to go that way. To PM just click on my name on the left side and PM(private message) should be one of the options you get.
I'm also intrigued with Kelsons solution but like you I'm really not that PC savy(although I do use Shrink I also have no idea what Sneaker-net means....).
Jeff
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post #16 of 25 Old 07-25-2012, 06:22 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by jjeff View Post

I've used FR to the HDD on both a E80H(one year older than your E95) and '05 and newer HDD Panasonics(I've also used FR on the HDD less E55 which is the same year as your E95), I can't understand what might be the issue confused.gif
To access FR on older Panasonics you push FUNCTIONS then arrow to DUBBING and hit enter. That should bring up a box that defaults to 8hrs(or 6hrs if you've setup EP for 6hrs instead of 8). You either use up and down to enter your time or direct enter the time(for example 2 for hours and 16 for minutes). I can't think of a setting that would prohibit FR, it's one of the main attractions to Panasonic DVDR.....maybe someone else has a thought? You might also want to read your manual and check out the part dealing with FR, I've never experienced what is sounds like you are.
BTW I see your also located in the twin cities, I live on the south side, if you lived near I wouldn't mind stopping by at some time to see if I could figure things out. If you lived north(Anoka, etc.) it would probably take me a bit longer before I was in your area. You could PM me with your address if you wanted to go that way. To PM just click on my name on the left side and PM(private message) should be one of the options you get.
I'm also intrigued with Kelsons solution but like you I'm really not that PC savy(although I do use Shrink I also have no idea what Sneaker-net means....).
Jeff
I'm a dunce with poor eyesight. I was using the remote and watching the TV and not the display on the E95. I hit FUNCTIONS and then arrowed down to DUBBING but I thought that wasn't what I wanted to do because dubbing is moving data between the HDD and a disk. I was wanting to record video from L1 to the HDD at a rate between SP and LP. So I arrowed to the right of DUBBING to FLEXIBLE RECORDING and after about 1 second my TV screen went black. Now I see the display on the E95 says L1 FR 8:00 and all 4 speed indicators are light up which I guess also means FR? Also the word PLAY is flashing. I just hit the red record button and 8:00 starts counting down so I guess it is recording to the HDD. At this point it won't let me enter any other time from the indicated 8:00.
But I guess this is all pointless because recording to the HDD won't let me control the destination file size. It doesn't even look like I can control the source time other than hitting STOP? I am hoping that by using a DVD-RAM as a destination and filling it with the appropriate amount of junk before doing the FR recording I can control both the source time and destination file size? As usual I am probably wrong about that?
I will try to PM you but I may screw that up also?

Dave
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post #17 of 25 Old 07-25-2012, 06:34 PM
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Yes when all the speed lights light it means you are either playing or recording in the FR mode. FR defaults to 8hrs(the maximum duration you can fit on a SL DVD) so if you just bring up the FR screen and push REC(or enter) you will be using FR8. To stop that recording just push STOP. In this case you'll have a partial recording in the speed of FR8(or in this case EP8).
Kelsons method is probably the best but again from my calculations using FR you should be able to fit ~2hrs 15 minutes of full resolution on a DVD using 2 titles, although it may be easiest to explain this process in person if your up to it. I use FR all the time and know it like the back of my hand, on the other hand believe it or not I've never used playlists......others seem to love that feature on Panasonics but I've managed to get by so far without having to learn it redface.gif
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Thanks jjeff,
I just spent half an hour writing you a pm and when I did a spell check it just disappeared. I just looked in my SENT messages folder and it wasn't there so I guess I lost it. I don't know if I am up to writing another one, maybe tomorrow when the pain gets less?

Dave
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Would you happen to have a couple of DVD-RWs around? If so, you may wish to dub your concert to 2 dvd-rw's, finalize them, and transfer them to your laptop's hdd. There's a software program called Video Redo that Kelson mentioned. They offer a free trial, so it won't cost you. Use that to edit out the unwanted parts and burn to dvd-r. It comes with editing and burning software, and is fairly easy to use. And you're good to go.

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post #20 of 25 Old 07-26-2012, 07:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveC E100 View Post

I have no clue just what "Sneaker-net" is? I have never heard that term before.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjeff View Post

I'm also intrigued with Kelsons solution but like you I'm really not that PC savy (although I do use Shrink I also have no idea what Sneaker-net means....).

From Wikipedia:Sneakernet
Quote:
Sneakernet is an informal term describing the transfer of electronic information, especially computer files, by physically moving removable media such as magnetic tape, floppy disks, compact discs, USB flash drives, or external hard drives from one computer to another. This is usually in lieu of transferring the information over a computer network. The name is a tongue-in-cheek sound-alike to ethernet, and refers to the use of someone wearing sneakers as the transport mechanism for the data.

i.e. "walking" the DVD-RW or RAM from your DVDR to your PC.

From that Wikipedia article they also cite "pigeon-net" smile.gif
Quote:
In September 2009, Durban company Unlimited IT reportedly pitted a carrier pigeon against South African ISP Telkom to transfer 4 GB of data 60 miles (97 km) from Howick to Durban. The pigeon, carrying the data on a memory stick, arrived in one hour eight minutes, with the data taking another hour to upload. During the same two-hour period, only about 4% of the data had been transferred over the ADSL link. A similar experiment was conducted in England in September 2010; the "pigeonnet" also proved superior.
That may be more appropriate for people that live in NYC.tongue.gif

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post #21 of 25 Old 07-26-2012, 08:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Westly-C View Post

Would you happen to have a couple of DVD-RWs around? If so, you may wish to dub your concert to 2 dvd-rw's, finalize them, and transfer them to your laptop's hdd. There's a software program called Video Redo that Kelson mentioned. They offer a free trial, so it won't cost you. Use that to edit out the unwanted parts and burn to dvd-r. It comes with editing and burning software, and is fairly easy to use. And you're good to go.
Unfortunately the '04 E95H only supports RAM and -R discs, no RW support at all. '05 was the first year Panasonic supported RW and then only -RW.
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post #22 of 25 Old 07-26-2012, 09:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelson View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveC E100 View Post

I have no clue just what "Sneaker-net" is? I have never heard that term before.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjeff View Post

I'm also intrigued with Kelsons solution but like you I'm really not that PC savy (although I do use Shrink I also have no idea what Sneaker-net means....).

From Wikipedia:Sneakernet
Quote:
Sneakernet is an informal term describing the transfer of electronic information, especially computer files, by physically moving removable media such as magnetic tape, floppy disks, compact discs, USB flash drives, or external hard drives from one computer to another. This is usually in lieu of transferring the information over a computer network. The name is a tongue-in-cheek sound-alike to ethernet, and refers to the use of someone wearing sneakers as the transport mechanism for the data.

i.e. "walking" the DVD-RW or RAM from your DVDR to your PC.

From that Wikipedia article they also cite "pidgeon-net" smile.gif
Quote:
In September 2009, Durban company Unlimited IT reportedly pitted a carrier pigeon against South African ISP Telkom to transfer 4 GB of data 60 miles (97 km) from Howick to Durban. The pigeon, carrying the data on a memory stick, arrived in one hour eight minutes, with the data taking another hour to upload. During the same two-hour period, only about 4% of the data had been transferred over the ADSL link. A similar experiment was conducted in England in September 2010; the "pigeonnet" also proved superior.
That may be more appropriate for people that live in NYC.tongue.gif

We used to call it sneakernet, footnet, and other things in some cases. It is the quintessential point-to-point networking protocol!biggrin.gif



The E95 manual says this on page 17.
Quote:
FR (Flexible Recording Mode)
The unit automatically selects a recording rate between XP and EP
(8H) that will enable the recordings to fit in the remaining disc space
with the best possible recording quality.
≥You can set when transferring (dubbing) or programming timer
recordings.
≥When recording to the HDD, picture quality is automatically adjusted
to precisely fit a transferred (dubbed) title on a 4.7 GB disc.
≥All the recording modes from XP to EP appear in the
display.

What you are trying to do will work for you if you give it a try. I would consider taking up jjeff on his offer of help. If he was REALLY going to be helpful, he'd bring over one of his many newer recorders ... If you want to learn to use the FR system, this is a good acid test of the capability of the machine.

Luke

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Panny's FR system can be very useful for squeezing the maximum, best use out of a disc's storage capacity, and it is pretty easy to use once you sort of crack the code and get into the zone of its logic. I "discovered" it after I had been using my Panny a coupla years and wished I'd figured it out sooner. However....

If you have only a few tapes to dub and it's really important to you to preserve the best possible picture quality AND you are less than thrilled at the idea of making your way up another technology learning curve - the best solution is probably just to spread the program across two discs.

For a few "desert island" VHS-to-DVD transfers, I have done two separate dubs: one at the full SP (or even XP) data rate that's dubbed to multiple DVDs and another "utility" copy FR'd to fit on one disc so if I want to grab a disc and take it to a friend's house or make a copy for somebody who's not super-critical about PQ, I have that option. Otherwise, good quality blank discs are - what? - 35, 40 cents a piece.
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post #24 of 25 Old 07-26-2012, 02:19 PM
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Quote:
Panny's FR system can be very useful for squeezing the maximum, best use out of a disc's storage capacity, and it is pretty easy to use once you sort of crack the code and get into the zone of its logic.

This is undoubtedly true. Another good thing about the later models would be, that he could use the FR recording feature to make a really high quality copy of the concert, and then dub it to a DL disk. Unfortunately, the E95 does not have any DL support. You work with what you can...

Luke

Evil is charming and beautiful. It makes you doubt yourself. It asks for one small compromise after another until it whittles you down, and it functions best when no one believes in it.-JOA
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post #25 of 25 Old 07-26-2012, 10:03 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks to all you guys for all this wonderful information. I spent my whole working life in the main frame computer hardware field but sneaker-net was not part of that language. It probably hadn't even been coined yet? Data was transferred between distant systems using 10" reels of 1/2" magnetic tape and punch cards. When I started we were loading operating software from punched paper tape. This floppy thing was just coming into fashion when my job disappeared.

I have just been carrying on a very interesting (to me) conversation with jjeff using PM's. We live in the same town but 50 miles apart and a traffic nightmare between us so we will probably never meet? You all amaze me with your knowledge and willingness to share it. I am going to experiment with FR using DVD-RAM on my problem. If I fail I will just divide that SP recording and put it on 2 separate DVD-R's. Most everything I have will fit on 1 DVD-R so this may be the only FR recording I will ever attempt to make. For 10 years I have been using the SP recording speed for everything and it has served me well. This is probably the only concert I have that exceeds 2 hours and 3 minutes?

Thanks again for all your help.

Dave
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