Maxell Discs-Turning Cloudy on the Surface - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 29 Old 08-07-2012, 03:21 PM - Thread Starter
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Just a heads up for anyone who has used Maxell blank DVDs, you may want to check discs you burned years ago. After going thru a few disc boxes, I saw several of mine had become 'cloudy' on the top. These were made back in 2004, and hadn't, seen much play since getting tucked away. The bottoms were clear. Copied them to newer discs. They played back without issues, but made new copies just to be on the safe side.
So, give your collection a good looking over whenever you have the time. wink.gif

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post #2 of 29 Old 08-07-2012, 03:36 PM
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When you say "top" I presume you mean the label side or non-recording side. Is that correct?

- kelson h

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post #3 of 29 Old 08-07-2012, 07:48 PM
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I have a lot recorded on Maxell 4x DVD-Rs with a gold label. I presume you are not talking about these.
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post #4 of 29 Old 08-07-2012, 09:10 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelson View Post

When you say "top" I presume you mean the label side or non-recording side. Is that correct?


lol, Yes, the label side.

 

 

Quote:
jmas said
I have a lot recorded on Maxell 4x DVD-Rs with a gold label. I presume you are not talking about these.

No these are 16x discs, and the color is copper, not the bright yellow/gold of the 4x and -RWs discs Maxell sold.

 

Here's what it looks like.

1000

1000


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post #5 of 29 Old 08-08-2012, 05:38 AM
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My 2004-era Maxell Made In Japan 8X with the gold label surface (same color as above ^^^) also gets cloudy. But on mine, it appears it is similar to tarnish from finger prints and such, and seems to wipe off, removing the cloudiness and restoring a gleaming surface.

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post #6 of 29 Old 08-08-2012, 06:27 AM
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I also have many of those Maxell -R DVDs but mine are 8x. I haven't seen clouding on the top but I did have clouding on the bottom of one of my Maxells. Unfortunately it was a one of a kind Hi8mm tape transfer where I had erased the original. It would skip and lock badly during a 5 minute area. It was so bad I couldn't do a computer copy so I had to realtime copy. Out of my 2 dozen or so players and recorders I found one that played the bad area 90% of the way through so I used that for the player. After this experience I computer copied all my one of a kind DVDs although this was the only one I seemed to have issues with.
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post #7 of 29 Old 08-08-2012, 08:24 AM
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Wes, if that clouding doesn't wipe off like tomwil's disks, then that looks suspiciously like the edge seal of the disk has failed.

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post #8 of 29 Old 08-08-2012, 09:48 AM
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Quote:
No these are 16x discs, and the color is copper, not the bright yellow/gold of the 4x and -RWs discs Maxell sold.
If it is the edge seal, then I would expect the data layer to start degrading very quickly. It doesn't tolerate exposure to oxygen very well at all.

For the record, I made a hundred or so DVDs for a "project" and they supplied the blank media, the bright yellow painted 4x Maxell -R disks. In the time since I made these disks (I can't remember they were made, my mind is fuzzy...smile.gif) they have ALL failed. Every one of them has become unplayable.frown.gif

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post #9 of 29 Old 08-08-2012, 11:06 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomwil View Post

My 2004-era Maxell Made In Japan 8X with the gold label surface (same color as above ^^^) also gets cloudy. But on mine, it appears it is similar to tarnish from finger prints and such, and seems to wipe off, removing the cloudiness and restoring a gleaming surface.


Never thought of trying to wipe them off-I'd rubbed my fingers across once to see if it smeared, but when it didn't and nothing appeared on my fingers, I just assumed those were going bad. Some were kept in individual dvd cases, and a few were in spindles. The cloudy ones in the spindle didn't leave anything on the bottom of the burned disc that was on top of it, plus I handle my discs carefully so I didn't think it was due to grease from touching them on the top. Those photos don't show how faded the cloudy ones (Space 1999) looks verses the normal (Starship Troopers) disc color.

Thanks for the suggestion though. .


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post #10 of 29 Old 08-08-2012, 11:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Church AV Guy View Post

For the record, I made a hundred or so DVDs for a "project" and they supplied the blank media, the bright yellow painted 4x Maxell -R disks. In the time since I made these disks (I can't remember they were made, my mind is fuzzy...smile.gif) they have ALL failed. Every one of them has become unplayable.frown.gif

 

If you could add a date, at least year, in your orig. post, that would provide one more anecdotal piece of info in the "How long will my discs last?" question... at least in regards to the 2nd tier discs.

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post #11 of 29 Old 08-08-2012, 03:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Church AV Guy View Post

For the record, I made a hundred or so DVDs for a "project" and they supplied the blank media, the bright yellow painted 4x Maxell -R disks. In the time since I made these disks (I can't remember they were made, my mind is fuzzy...smile.gif) they have ALL failed. Every one of them has become unplayable.frown.gif

Uh-oh......I gotta check some discs when I get home tonight.
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post #12 of 29 Old 08-08-2012, 04:16 PM
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Here are some CDs, most of which will no longer play. These were on a spindle left on a shelf near a window out in our garage. Notice that the label and media surface on the Memorex CD is largely missing.

MEMOREX CD-R WITH LABEL FLAKING OFF WITH PARTIAL MEDIA SURFACE MISSING.JPG 126k .JPG file

MORE CD-Rs FROM SPINDLE IN GARAGE.JPG 247k .JPG file
Attached Images
File Type: jpg MEMOREX CD-R WITH LABEL FLAKING OFF WITH PARTIAL MEDIA SURFACE MISSING.JPG (125.6 KB, 22 views)
File Type: jpg MORE CD-Rs FROM SPINDLE IN GARAGE.JPG (247.4 KB, 16 views)

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post #13 of 29 Old 08-08-2012, 04:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wajo View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Church AV Guy View Post

For the record, I made a hundred or so DVDs for a "project" and they supplied the blank media, the bright yellow painted 4x Maxell -R disks. In the time since I made these disks (I can't remember they were made, my mind is fuzzy...smile.gif ) they have ALL failed. Every one of them has become unplayable.frown.gif

If you could add a date, at least year, in your orig. post, that would provide one more anecdotal piece of info in the "How long will my discs last?" question... at least in regards to the 2nd tier discs.

If I could have remembered it, I would have added it. Unfortunately, I was doing a great deal of this kind of thing, and I can't say with any certainty at all from my memory. frown.gif Darn bad memory...tongue.gif

Okay, I was able to get one or two of them to load enough to look at the files on the disk, if not play them. Some of them had obviously bogus dates attached (unreadable), but some others were date stamped in July of 2005, so maybe they weren't 4x disks. I seem to remember a project with those yellow painted top Maxell disks as 4x, but this project was for real-time dubs, not to the HDD at all, so I can't really say for sure. At any rate, these yellow top Maxell disks from July 2005 are all unreadable. How long they have been that way is impossible to say, except that they are VERY unreadable now (some won't even load), so I can assume that they have been slowly degrading over time, so they might have been "bad" for a while.

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post #14 of 29 Old 08-08-2012, 04:34 PM
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The only "yellow" top Maxell discs I've used were 2x -RW discs that preformed very well from ~'05-'09 when I got my first HDD DVDR at which point my RW use dropped dramatically. My only other Maxell DVDs were the gold top ones that looked quite nice but I did have that issue with one. I think out of all my RWs I only had one fail after ~30 rewrites for each disc.
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post #15 of 29 Old 08-08-2012, 07:38 PM
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I have had very good luck with Maxell 4x gold-top DVD-Rs in terms of longevity. I still have several spindles that I haven't used yet. Some show a Taiyo Yuden ID. Can anybody who is reporting problems with their Maxell discs get an ID showing who really manufactured them?
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post #16 of 29 Old 08-08-2012, 09:09 PM - Thread Starter
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DVD Identifier shows mine to be Prodisc F02

 

Quote:
Unique Disc Identifier : [DVD-R:ProdiscF02]
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Disc & Book Type :       [DVD-R] - [DVD-R]
Manufacturer Name :      [Prodisc Technology Inc.]
Manufacturer ID :        [ProdiscF02]
Blank Disc Capacity :    [2,298,496 Sectors = 4.71 GB (4.38 GiB)]
 

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post #17 of 29 Old 08-09-2012, 05:03 AM
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My 8x Maxell gold top -R discs show: Manufacturer ID: RITEKG05
My 2x Maxell yellow top -R discs show: Manufacturer ID: OPTODISCW002
I have no 4x gold tops.
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post #18 of 29 Old 08-09-2012, 06:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Church AV Guy View Post

If I could have remembered it, I would have added it. Unfortunately, I was doing a great deal of this kind of thing, and I can't say with any certainty at all from my memory. frown.gif Darn bad memory...tongue.gif.
Burn longevity -- this is an interesting topic I have not thought about in a while. I got into the habit, from the very beginning, of writing the recording date on all my burned disks. I keep an Excel spreadsheet that catalogs the titles, the date burned, the burn speed and the media that was burned. So I went into it last night and did a sort to see what my earliest burns were -- I too used Maxell yellow-top 4x disks in the beginning, along with Ritek and Memorex, until I converted to Taiyo Yuden. I only ever used DVD-R -- no DVD+R -- and DVD+DL. I should note that all my burns were done with PC burners. Even though the editing features of the Panasonic recorders were top-notch, they just never could compare with PC editing/authoring tools so I just burned the recordings to RAM and sneaker-netted them over to my PC for processing.

My very first spindle of disks were Memorex 4X DVD-R that I burned in 7/04 - 8/04; my next spindle were the yellow-top Maxell 4X DVD-R that I burned in 8/04 - 12/04 -- these will be some nice 8 yr data points. I didn't have a chance to pull a sample of them from the storage boxes and do a PC rip to see if they still were good. I'll see if I can shake some time tonight to check them and get the media ID's. I admit to being very curious myself. A PC rip is more demanding than just seeing if it will play in a player. While a DVD player will let corrupt bits slide -- you may not even notice the brief macro blocking -- a PC rip will abort if the severity of the errors exceed the error-correction capabilities. Also with a PC rip I'm covering the entire disk and not just playing the first 20 min of the title or playing random points from chapter skip.

I'll see if I can rip these tonight. Although I really don't care about the specific 8 yr old recordings any more (sound familiar), I'm really curious how the disks have survived.

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post #19 of 29 Old 08-09-2012, 05:09 PM
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I just did a quick visual check of 12 discs recorded in '04-'05. I can verify some clouding that won't wipe off. This is on the gold colored 8x discs, the yellow discs (4x?) all look fine. I didn't have time to play any yet although I'm not getting a good feeling about this.
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post #20 of 29 Old 08-09-2012, 09:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelson View Post

Burn longevity -- this is an interesting topic I have not thought about in a while . . . I too used Maxell yellow-top 4x disks in the beginning, along with Ritek and Memorex . . . I should note that all my burns were done with PC burners.
I'll see if I can rip these tonight. Although I really don't care about the specific 8 yr old recordings any more (sound familiar), I'm really curious how the disks have survived.
Here are some more anecdotal data points. Using ImgBurn, I ripped a sampling of 9 disks that were burned 7/04 - 8/04 -- 8 yr old burns. These are all 4X DVD-R that were PC burned & verified using DVD Decrypter's burn engine. I ripped three each of Memorex (Prodisk S03), Maxell yellow tops (MXL RG02), Ritek (Ritek G04).

The disks all appear to be perfectly preserved. They all ripped at full speed (4-5 min per disk) without any retry errors. A difficult to read disk will slow down the read rate and if bad enough will issue retry errors. None of that was observed here.

These disks are in sleeves and have been stored in a covered disk box in my DVD cabinet in the family room. No extremes of temperature and no light. But I suspect the quality of the burner used to make the disk is a major factor in the longevity question and may be more important than the ranking of the media.

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post #21 of 29 Old 08-10-2012, 09:34 AM
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Because of the subject here, I have looked into some of my older recordings as well. When I got my first DVD recorder, I was buying media from all over, not caring where it came from, because it all had that mythical fo-100 year guarantee, right?rolleyes.gif The Maxell disks I had been referring to were not a purchase of mine, but of the person I was doing the tape transferrs for. Like I said, they all have failed. At the same time, I was making disks of Mission Impossible: from a local station that was advertising them as uncut*. I took a look at one of those last night. Yes, I know ONE is statistically insignificant. Anyway, I ran it through the TEST cycle of (one of) my duplicators, and it worked perfectly. As Kelson said above, "A difficult to read disk will slow down the read rate and if bad enough will issue retry errors." I had none of that. This was an old T-Y disk. There were some Ritek disks that WERE bad, some others that I cannot remember right now, all of which were bad, and the worst of the lot were a batch of Sony DVDs that have incredible discoloration in the dye layer! I can only think that it was a bad batch. I'll try to post a picture if I can.

* The local station broadcasting METV is also showing Mission Impossible:. I have been recording them, sort of on a lark, and I had a questions about how much might be cut from METV, so I took the opportunity compare the METV versions, from the older recordings I had made. Here are the times for comparison:

EP# MeTV Older recording
1.11 46:07 49:55
1.12 46:06 49:25
1.13 46:06 49:55
1.14 46:06 49:54
1.15 46:05 49:50

From this I can conclude that METV is either making cuts, or using time compression with pitch adjustment. Four minutes out of a fifty minute show is 8%. That would certainly be noticeable, and in the dialog, it appears that the actors are talking very repidly.frown.gif

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post #22 of 29 Old 08-10-2012, 10:48 AM
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Before my Sony 257 went Bonkers i bought IMF: sea 1 at target.
9.99 on 1-22-12.The Sony wouldn't finalize.Got The Toshiba 430 in
Feb 2012.
They, the industy, must put a 5 year self destruct built into the blank dvd's.

I have several cd's-store bought that are 20 years old.Cheap MCA Bach releases that
work just fine.

That IMF Sea 1 buy was for 28 episodes.Appox.36 cents per episode !!
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post #23 of 29 Old 08-10-2012, 04:02 PM
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I have three kinds of Maxell discs.

1) Around 50 “Shiny copper top 16x” -R CMC MAG AM3

2) Around 30 “Dull copper top 16x” -R RITEKF1

3) Around 5 “Bright yellow top 2x” -RW RITEKW01

All discs are 2008 or so vintage. I see no evidence of clouding or other signs of decay in any of my Maxell discs. I randomly played a few and they work fine.
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Originally Posted by Kelson View Post

I suspect the quality of the burner used to make the disk is a major factor in the longevity question and may be more important than the ranking of the media.

While some failures may occur due to the burner used (example cases if the burner didn’t burn the pits at the right laser power for a set burn speed) but I don’t think that’s the case with the discs that have clouding. I suspect what you wrote in a previous post.
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…looks suspiciously like the edge seal of the disk has failed.

Sure looks like there is a breach in the bonding. But since Westly states that the discs still play all right it’s probably the extra protection seal on top of the disc that is breached and the clouding is probably glue from the top seal and most likely has nothing to do with the part of the disc were the dye is. That’s my guess. Remember, DVDs have an extra plastic layer on “top” for protection purposes only.

It’s a good idea to clone the cloudy discs.
I can’t stress enough how important storage & handling and the environment is to disc longevity.
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post #24 of 29 Old 08-10-2012, 05:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Super Eye View Post

I can’t stress enough how important storage & handling and the environment is to disc longevity.
That is certainly unassailable.

- kelson h

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post #25 of 29 Old 08-10-2012, 06:43 PM
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Here are low quality pics of the three different Maxell I own.

Bright yellow top 2x -RW RITEKW01


Dull copper top 16 -R RITEKF1


Shiny copper top 16x -R CMC MAG AM3


All three
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post #26 of 29 Old 08-15-2012, 10:40 AM
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I have been very lucky with my selection of discs over the years. When I first started recording DVDs back in 2004(5?), I had happened on a batch of Verbatim 8x AZOs at Sam's Club for cheap, so I bought 200 of them. I only went with them for the price and my impression of the Verbatim name from the old 5.25" floppy disk days. By the time I ran through that stack, I had read up enough on DVD longevity and quality to know I made a good purchase and I stuck with Verbatims ever since.

My collection is running upwards of 900+ discs now, and even though I haven't had any issues with any of the oldest burns, I still keep a backup of all discs on external 2TB USB hard drives, of which I am now on my third, after filling the first two. Actually, the discs are now my backup and the HDD is my primary go to device for playback.
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post #27 of 29 Old 08-15-2012, 04:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ti-triodes View Post

I just did a quick visual check of 12 discs recorded in '04-'05. I can verify some clouding that won't wipe off. This is on the gold colored 8x discs, the yellow discs (4x?) all look fine. I didn't have time to play any yet although I'm not getting a good feeling about this.



I had some time to check my discs again. The oxidation does come off but it does involve some elbow grease. I watched 2 discs and both played fine. I also played a couple of others without watching and they didn't have any problems either. I store mine in a lightproof SuperMediaStore hard case so the lack of light might prolong their life a bit. However, the long term viability of these things doesn't look too good. I agree- make a copy now if it's something important.
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post #28 of 29 Old 08-15-2012, 05:10 PM
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eek.gif

 

Outgassing from plastic cases/sleeves?

 

eek.gif

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post #29 of 29 Old 08-15-2012, 06:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wajo View Post

eek.gif

Outgassing from plastic cases/sleeves?

eek.gif
That is something to consider. The people who have experienced clouding, how are your discs stored? Perhaps we can find a pattern.
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