Hauppauge: Choosing Between 1212 and 1445 - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 20 Old 08-16-2012, 01:48 PM - Thread Starter
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I am an almost happy person in my viewing habits, and am not trying to "borrow" every movie or show ever produced for my own personal storage wants and needs. What I like to watch over and over, I'm generally content to buy on DVD or BD and just watch it that way. I admit I'm a bit of a baseball junkie, though, and there are some wonderful programs that the MLB Network has produced that I like to watch from time to time, and they're trapped on my DVR. A friend of mine is umpiring his first Little League World Series game today - behind the plate! - and I'd love to record the game and give him a copy of it. But I can't.

After hours of wandering through the possibilities, the solution that looks like it would work best for me is a Hauppauge device, but I can't tell if there is much difference between the 1212 and the 1445, and if there is a difference which one would serve me better. I have Comcast and a Motorola DCH-3416. I run my video via HDMI straight to the TV instead of through my AVR, and run optical out to the AVR if I want to watch a movie or something with surround. I realize that, since the DVR is only outputting 1080i anyway, I can switch to component to the TV, and that would then make the Haupppauge box work. I have a laptop that still functions but is a spare that I can use to record from the Hauppauge box, so I feel this will suit me fine.

However, is there a difference in the box that makes the 1445 better or worse than the 1212? I've read both product descriptions and some reviews, and find that I can't tell the difference well enough to know. For things I watch a lot, I have an Apple TV unit, a desktop in the office that is up all the time, and have used MakeMKV and Handbrake to have things available online. As such, if I can get the programs from the DVR into some usable format I can then play with on the desktop with minimal fussing, I'm pretty happy. I've read that each of these units comes with different versions of software, and if that's the only real difference, which would be better for me that I could then feed into my MakeMKV/Handbrake pipeline and keep my world simple? Sound quality is important to me, so if either unit's software solution leads me to lose DD or the like, I'd be disappointed.

My head is spinning right now. Any advice to stop the rotation would be very much appreciated! Thanks!


Setup:

Denon AVR-2112CI
Motorola DCH-3416
Vizio E420VL
Apple ATV3
Sony BDP-S370
Pioneer DV-220KV
Sangean HDT-1X
Speakers: 5.1
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post #2 of 20 Old 08-16-2012, 02:20 PM
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For what you want to do, you want the 1212. The boxes are essentially the same in their function and recording abilities, but the 1445 is geared and packaged towards recording video game play from a console. The 1212 is for recording HDTV from a cable box or DVR. The 1212 comes with an IR blaster which allows it to change the channel on a cable box. The software that comes with it enables you to program recordings. This link has an info box with the differences between the two models.

If your DVR is one that supports simultaneous output from both component and HDMI then you need change nothing and just hook the component video to the 1212. For audio you would run the optical out from the DVR to the 1212 and daisy chain it from the 1212 to your AVR -- it is a pass through. Using the optical output allows you to record DD/5.1. If your DVR does not support simultaneous output you will need to use the component video and pass it through the 1212 to your TV. Unfortunately the connection diagram on the 1212 website is wrong and is a duplicate of the 1445 connection diagram which can cause confusion.

- kelson h

The bitterness of poor quality lasts long after the sweetness of the low price is forgotten . . . life is too short to drink bad wine

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post #3 of 20 Old 08-16-2012, 02:42 PM
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I say neither. Get the Hauppauge DCR-2650 and a cable card and ditch the Moto. So you save about $20/month and get unlimited recording space, a beautiful DVR interface and none of the complexity and compromises of analog video capture and file conversions. Once you get it set up, it's completely effortless. If you want another capture card for other sources, that's fine too, but for cable TV the 2650 (or other cable card tuner) is the way to go.
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post #4 of 20 Old 08-16-2012, 07:55 PM
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Good thing he's not in Canada as no provider supports Cablecard:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CableCARD
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post #5 of 20 Old 08-16-2012, 08:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug O View Post

Good thing he's not in Canada as no provider supports Cablecard:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CableCARD
Yes, but aren't you guys able to buy your own stb's and dvr's instead of being forced to rent?
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post #6 of 20 Old 08-16-2012, 08:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mhufnagel View Post

Yes, but aren't you guys able to buy your own stb's and dvr's instead of being forced to rent?

January of this year I bought a brand new
Motorola DCX-3400-M with dual tuners capable of receiving MPEG-2 and MPEG-4 with a 500GB HDD
for $97. Special customer appreciation price as normal price is $347.
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post #7 of 20 Old 08-16-2012, 08:55 PM
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Isn't a better idea to buy a lifetime TiVo? confused.gif
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post #8 of 20 Old 08-17-2012, 07:48 AM
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OP still needs a capture card to do what he wants, even with Tivo. Cable card tuner OTOH, goes straight to files that can easily be converted to any format and don't lose the 5.1 sound track, all for about the same price as a regular analog capture card and without the hassle of real-time copying or timers. While you copy from a cable box, you can't watch anything else. With a cable card tuner, you can watch something else while something is being recorded.
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post #9 of 20 Old 08-17-2012, 11:40 AM - Thread Starter
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I don't expect this thing to be used but once every other week or once a month. I'm just not a huge TV watcher, and don't mind spending a small amount of money to watch something sans commercials that I want to see on a repeated basis. I found the Canada comment a bit amusing, as my girlfriend is from Canada, and I've been slowly teaching her the ins and outs of baseball. A bunch of the things that are "trapped" on the DVR are shows that had ex-players talking about the inner workings of the game, stuck waiting for another visit by her to watch them with me.

I know that someday it's coming, but for now I just find the notion of sticking a desktop-style system next to the AV equipment a non-starter. I know it's in the future, and I'm fascinated with where video - and media in general - are going for the consumer. Long after the bandwidth companies finish dealing with the "last mile" problem, I think a lot of consumers are going to continue to have to fight the "last fifty feet" problem. Love (or wifi) means never having to say you're running another Cat 6 cable to the living room? There are so many disparate ways to get some video source to the pixels on your flat screen, and watching some of them gel and some of them work their collective butts off to not get along is an interesting problem that is tough on the consumer. Being a baseball fan, I'm endlessly amused at how even the paid services don't seem to have themselves sorted out and strive for ubiquity. I can watch any live baseball game I want (save those in my actual market) from either my ATV3, on my iPod Touch, or on my iPhone. I can watch them on the flat screen even from the Touch then streamed to the flat screen via AirPlay (not that I would, it's just amusing that I can). However, I can only watch the video highlights on the Touch or the iPhone, although they can show them on the flat screen again via AirPlay. Why no video clips through the ATV3 "app" MLB.tv wrote? It was worse with the Olympics: I could watch any replay and even watch Live things that weren't on TV anywhere else on the NBC Live iPhone app, but they didn't make AirPlay an option, so I can see most anything I want, as long as I don't mind it being on a 3" display. This market is still definitely figuring itself out.

I know I'm not the usual consumer wanting to "borrow" forever everything they see, but I'd have been quite content giving MLB Network $1 apiece for the stuff trapped on my DVR. Would I spend $2? Probably. I wouldn't have to post this question if they did things like that. I'm not that concerned or interested in amassing TBs of things I'll rarely view again. However, I attended the fifth Word Wide Web Consortium conference, and several things happened there that continue to impact us in this part of the market today. One panel speaker said that the commerce of content on the web would finally take a great step forward when it was possible to make a profit on a tenth of a cent transaction. That may sound ludicrous, but when media content providers such as magazines or newspapers can figure out how to give you the stories you decide you want and do them in small transaction amounts, they will find themselves generating revenue; so, too, is it with figuring out how to "sell" things along the line I want to preserve for small-ish amounts of money without trying to figure out how to make it attractive to spend $14,99 for them. If anything, the phone apps market has demonstrated just that: I don't know exactly where the "why not?" price point is yet, but folks seem willing to take a chance on lots of apps at the $0.99 price point. I think we're finding that number. The other amusing exchange that happened at that conference was an exchange at the closing panel discussion where one presenter said, "someday, we'll all be able to take home movies and put them up where our friends can see them," to which an otherwise observant and intelligent panelist later replied with both respect and sincerity, "you couldn't make a home movie I would want to see." I think we all know he's today in a minority, and I have to wonder if the youtube folks were in attendance that day. Probably not - I'm sure they felt they thought of it themselves, which is fine. However, there are a million six pieces of software that claim they're good at snarfing those videos off youtube so that you can have them on your own machine, so yet another video-related cottage industry was born.

I can't wait until this stuff just shakes itself out. But I've all but got a nose bleed just trying to keep up with it! In the meantime, $200 for a little box that does the trick isn't too bad, as long as the quality of my everyday watching doesn't go through the floor because of the changed connections, and as long as I'm not having to live behind my entertainment center unplugging and plugging things just to make it all work. My Harmony remote knows how to turn all this stuff on and off, and I don't want to work incredibly hard trying to get to that state again.

Thank you all for your opinions on this matter. Even the things that won't ultimately work for me are interesting. I'm not a videophile - but maybe I want to play one on TV? Newsweek just got sold for a buck, and the buyer may make it online-only. The major networks have to be looking at that and shuddering. Video is going to be doing the same thing: I can't wait to see where all of this leads. Cable companies that are really just bandwidth companies and billing service providers where your entire viewing is on demand? It can't be too far off, can it? The next Seinfeld available at twenty cents an episode? Five cents? Unprotected, because they know the price is cheaper than figuring out the storage, and less work than working your way around the latest WMC bug? The CableCARD box makes for interesting food for thought. This is going to be a very interesting space to watch for the next five years.
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post #10 of 20 Old 08-17-2012, 12:18 PM
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I understand where you're coming from, but it sounds like you may not be aware how HTPCs work these days. My PC isn't anywhere near my AV rack. You just plug the tuner into your existing PC, wherever it may be (or into your network depending on the model). Then just stream over the network as you do with ATV today. I do it through the Xbox I already have and control everything with the remote I already have. The experience is totally transparent to the end user. You'd have no idea you were recording to and streaming from a PC. Anyway, when I discovered I could do that and save a ton of money, I thought it was the greatest thing since sliced bread. And you don't have to worry about new bugs because WMC development stopped years ago wink.gif

If you're not in a hurry, soon Ceton is coming out with a 6-tuner, subscription-free DVR called the Q which is going to be amazing.

Best of luck to you.
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post #11 of 20 Old 08-17-2012, 12:27 PM - Thread Starter
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I actually ran Cat5 from the office (where the internet part of the cable POP comes into the house) to the living room, stuck a cheap switch out there, and hooked everything up hardwired. I just didn't want the AV stuff fighting with my son's latest online game for packets on the wifi. I think the next generation of wifi boxes, with a separate band for video, are interesting. Twice as fast again, and push the packet-hungry stuff to its own channel? Good thinking! Also, it seems like almost everything in the rack has its own network port, so the single run was a performance and money saver anyway.

I'll have to watch this stuff over time. I'm just not a big early adopter anymore if it's going to suck down a lot of my time. I'm not just getting older - I'm getting lazier! I really do appreciate your input, and I'll start watching this space to see where it's going. I've been waiting for this a very long time.

"It's an IP world after all!"
-- Me, a very long time ago
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post #12 of 20 Old 08-17-2012, 01:01 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mdavej View Post

I understand where you're coming from, but it sounds like you may not be aware how HTPCs work these days. My PC isn't anywhere near my AV rack. You just plug the tuner into your existing PC, wherever it may be (or into your network depending on the model). Then just stream over the network as you do with ATV today. I do it through the Xbox I already have and control everything with the remote I already have. The experience is totally transparent to the end user. You'd have no idea you were recording to and streaming from a PC. Anyway, when I discovered I could do that and save a ton of money, I thought it was the greatest thing since sliced bread. And you don't have to worry about new bugs because WMC development stopped years ago wink.gif
If you're not in a hurry, soon Ceton is coming out with a 6-tuner, subscription-free DVR called the Q which is going to be amazing.
Best of luck to you.

I know I'm not going this direction right now, but as I do the dishes tonight, this will give me something to think about. You say you stream it over the network as I do with the ATV today. In the case of the ATV, the "from" is "out there" based upon the source, but the ATV itself is the destination, HDMI'd into the Denon AVR. With the CableCARD, what device is your destination? My Vizio is damned near the only thing in the rack without a network port, so your solution either requires an internet-ready TV (that word TV just doesn't apply anymore, does it?), or some other destination to be the "to" part of the streaming. To which device are you streaming your cable content, and for those of us who bought our flat screens in the nether era (mid-2010 for me), what do we buy to stream to?

I've found myself both impressed and frustrated by the ATV. Such great promise in the device. If only there were an app dev kit for it a la the iPhone. I know, I know, the Roku camp will put up their hands, and the iPad users will put up their hands. Yes, keeping the thing semi-locked is Apple's way of selling other more expensive hardware. For all the little Apples I have about the house, I'm a Windows PC user when it comes to computing. Somehow, too, it would be a bit too ironic to stream my content from the hard disk on the desktop in the office wireless to the iPad, then back from the iPad wireless to the router so that it can send it on wires to the ATV to be fed into the AVR. My ATV can happily play the movies on the desktop once they're dropped into iTunes over there - it works well enough for now. I do wish, however, that the little NBC Olympics Live app could have been done on the ATV as well, and I could have surfed, selected, and watched that sort of stuff direct to the ATV without all the other song (video) and dance. I see instances of this all the time as I'm looking at or thinking about video content.
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post #13 of 20 Old 08-18-2012, 02:04 PM
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Cable Card tuner video stream goes first to a PC. Then I use an Xbox connected to my TV to view it elsewhere. Any media center extender device will work. The soon-to-be released Ceton Echo is another media center extender. A Roku or possibly ATV could also play just your recordings, but not interact with live TV or your guide like an extender can. I just stream everything as-is without copying/converting/transcoding to accommodate other client/server devices. I take the simplest approach I can. I use Remote Potato to watch my DVR content on my iOS devices anywhere in the world, a bit like slingbox.

My TV has no internet capabilities whatsoever. My servers are a couple of PCs, and my streaming clients which are connected to it consist only of game systems and blu-ray players. I have no ATV or Roku.
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post #14 of 20 Old 08-18-2012, 04:45 PM
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I wish there was a simple solution for satellite customers...
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post #15 of 20 Old 08-19-2012, 11:23 AM
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Me too. But at least sat companies have really good multi-room DVRs already that are fairly cheap to lease. That's not an option with cable. If sat had all the channels my cable company has, I'd still have satellite.
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post #16 of 20 Old 08-19-2012, 03:45 PM
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Originally Posted by mdavej View Post

Me too. But at least sat companies have really good multi-room DVRs already that are fairly cheap to lease. That's not an option with cable. If sat had all the channels my cable company has, I'd still have satellite.
Yeah, but that's only really good for watch and delete, not collecting. frown.gif
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post #17 of 20 Old 08-19-2012, 06:24 PM
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Originally Posted by mhufnagel View Post

Yes, but aren't you guys able to buy your own stb's and dvr's instead of being forced to rent?

Maybe but the providers have been trying to make the consumer rent as much as possible while providing as little info as possible about outright purchase. Would love a cable card interface up here but not going to happen...
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post #18 of 20 Old 08-20-2012, 10:06 PM
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Yeah, but that's only really good for watch and delete, not collecting. frown.gif

Welcome to my world. biggrin.gif
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post #19 of 20 Old 01-11-2013, 04:12 PM
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At CES 2013 Hauppauge introduced 2 new HD PVRs. One for gamers and one for video archivers

The Hauppauge HD PVR 2 model 1512 is the one designed for video archivers

http://www.engadget.com/2013/01/10/hauppauge-introduces-the-hd-prv-2-video-recorder/

Google Hauppauge HD PVR 2 model 1512 for lots more info.
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post #20 of 20 Old 01-11-2013, 04:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Super Eye View Post

At CES 2013 Hauppauge introduced 2 new HD PVRs. One for gamers and one for video archivers

The Hauppauge HD PVR 2 model 1512 is the one designed for video archivers

It looks nice, wait... HDMI input? OMG! eek.gifeek.gifeek.gif
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