Dish Sat. with 222k Duo and Magnavox DVD recorder - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 26 Old 10-06-2012, 08:42 AM - Thread Starter
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I haven't seen this answered yet. I'm thinking about buying a Magnavox ZC320MW8B DVD Recorder. I have the 222k duo receiver from Dish. That means there isn't a receiver in the second room. There is a coaxial cable coming in from the sat. though. Can I record by connectiong the sat. cable to the DVD recorder and then connecting the DVD recorder to the tv?? The second tv is still run off of the receiver in room #1, but they are independent. Hope this makes sense. Thanks
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post #2 of 26 Old 10-07-2012, 10:25 PM
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The ZC320MW8B doesn't have a RF (coax cable) input as it is tunerless. Recording is limited to a line input. Those are a S-Video connection plus the white and red audio inputs, or, a composite (yellow) video connection plus the white and red audio inputs.

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post #3 of 26 Old 10-08-2012, 06:15 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for your info. If I use my vcr as a tuner and then thru the dvd recorder and on to the tv will that work. I'm sure there will be some quality loss, but will that work? If not, what about this RF modulator I hear about. What's that, and is that the best way to go?

Thanks
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post #4 of 26 Old 10-08-2012, 07:05 PM
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An RF modulator will convert video/audio to RF(channel 3 or 4) a VCR would be able to convert RF to video/audio, it sounds like you'd need the VCR and yes the quality wouldn't be the best and the audio would probably be mono.
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post #5 of 26 Old 10-08-2012, 07:19 PM - Thread Starter
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Could I skip the vcr and go with the rf modulator and the dvd recorder. For some reason, I was thinking the modulator would make the vcr not needed.

Thanks
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post #6 of 26 Old 10-08-2012, 07:40 PM
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The VCR and the RF modulator serve similar but also different purposes.

Some people have the problem of an older CRT television with no line inputs, only a coax antenna jack to feed the TV tuner. When these people buy a DVD player/recorder, they discover they can't connect it to their old TV because the new disc player/recorders do not have the built-in output over coax to play as channel 3 or 4 on the TV, like VCRs do. The workaround for this is to connect the line output of the DVD box to either a VCR or an RF Modulator, then connect the coax output of the VCR or Modulator to the TV coax input (so it can see the DVD as playing on channel 3 or 4).

What you have is the reverse problem: you want a DVD recorder which not only doesn't have RF out, it also doesn't have "RF In," i.e. a tuner. So to use the ZC320MW8B in the second room with the coax lead from satellite and the TV, you can't skate by with just a Modulator accessory, since that can only convert in one direction (from line input to RF output on coax). You need a VCR, which can tune the satellite coax feed on ch 3 or 4 and send it thru its line outputs to the line inputs of the ZC320MW8B. You then connect the line outs or HDMI of the ZC320MW8B to the line inputs of the TV.

If you already own a VCR, this is a good way to go: you can take advantage of the lower price on the tunerless ZC320MW8B. If you don't already own a VCR, you'll have to get a used one from friends/family or buy one off Craigs List. Used VCRs typically sell for about $25. It really doesn't make sense to go to the bother and added expense of getting a VCR if you don't already own one: make things easy on yourself by choosing a recorder with built-in tuner. It will be more expensive than the ZC320MW8B, but comparatively not by much if you factor in needing to buy a VCR to make the ZC320MW8B work with your satellite setup.
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post #7 of 26 Old 10-08-2012, 08:01 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks again for the input. I've been looking online for dvd recorders with tuners and they seem to be getting more and more scarce. At least ones that are under $200. Seems like you are saying there would be no need to have the RF modulator, since I need the vcr anyway. I was thinking the receiver in the living room would be the tuner, since the remote for the tv in the bedroom is UHF not IR. I only needed the vcr or RF for the coaxial input. It's true, I'm not in the same boat as most who use this. I only need one of them as a liason to the tv. (thru a dvd recorder w/out a coaxial input) I need some schoolin' on this stuff.

Thanks
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post #8 of 26 Old 10-09-2012, 11:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingB84 View Post

Thanks again for the input. I've been looking online for dvd recorders with tuners and they seem to be getting more and more scarce. At least ones that are under $200.

The best recorder with a tuner you can still buy new is the recently updated Magnavox MDR533 from WalMart webstore, which retails for $228. It has been covered extensively here on AVS (and covered... and covered... and covered... the dead horse has been pulverized, actually) by fanatics who would throw themselves under a bus if they were prevented from purchasing one every couple months to add to the stockpile in their bomb shelters.

But its an ideal unit for your purposes. If you aren't in a rush, don't buy anything yet. Wait until after the Black Friday sales finish at the end of November. Historically, going back several years now, hundreds of people buy the Magnavox under the mistaken notion that its a "cheap TiVO." They get it home, quickly discover it is NOT a TiVO, and return it to Walmart for refund. Rather than sit on these hundreds (if not thousands) of new but open-box recorders, WalMart and the mfr repackage them as "refurbished" and resell them at a steep discount thru specialty dealers like J&R. The typical "refurb" price is $169-199, usually the lower end of the scale. At those prices, the machine is an absolute steal and holds its second-hand value very well.

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Seems like you are saying there would be no need to have the RF modulator, since I need the vcr anyway.

Correct. The VCR tunes the satellite feed for tunerless devices, something the RF Modulator cannot do.

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I was thinking the receiver in the living room would be the tuner, since the remote for the tv in the bedroom is UHF not IR.

Technically, it is the tuner, since its what you use to collect the satellite signal and choose channels on. But since the extension coax going to your second viewing room is carrying the box output on channel 3 or 4, the extension itself needs to be "tuned again" by any device you connect to it. Your TV can easily see the satellite extension feed, as can a VCR, or a DVD recorder with built-in tuner. But a "tunerless" recorder like the ZC320MW8B cannot see the feed, since it has no tuner to decode channel 3 or 4 (it only has line inputs). So you need the VCR to tune the extension feed on channel 3 or 4, and send it thru its line outputs to the ZC320MW8B line inputs if you want to record anything.

Hope thats clear.smile.gif
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post #9 of 26 Old 10-09-2012, 11:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CitiBear View Post

But its an ideal unit for your purposes. If you aren't in a rush, don't buy anything yet. Wait until after the Black Friday sales finish at the end of November. Historically, going back several years now, hundreds of people buy the Magnavox under the mistaken notion that its a "cheap TiVO." They get it home, quickly discover it is NOT a TiVO, and return it to Walmart for refund. Rather than sit on these hundreds (if not thousands) of new but open-box recorders, WalMart and the mfr repackage them as "refurbished" and resell them at a steep discount thru specialty dealers like J&R.

 

 Less than 1/2 of 1% refurb'd. You just hear most about the returned units since those are the most prolific posters/complainers.

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post #10 of 26 Old 10-09-2012, 11:44 AM - Thread Starter
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That sounds like a good plan. Is there anyway to tell what "refurbished" means in the case of an impending purchase? I would suppose that would be kinda difficult since "they" wouldn't know ahead of time which unit I was going to receive. I'll keep watching here for info. You guys are of much help.

Thanks
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post #11 of 26 Old 10-09-2012, 11:52 AM - Thread Starter
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Just noticed this. Don't know if it means anything. The coaxial coming in to room2 is not coming from the box in the living room, it is coming from the Sat. itself. It's like this...from the sat. one coaxial to receiver in the living room and one coaxial (now) going into the vcr in the bedroom. Is that understandable and does it make a difference?

Thanks again.
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post #12 of 26 Old 10-09-2012, 04:36 PM
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Good luck.

 

You can't record from my Dish 322's second tuner at all, at least over coax, which is how they set mine up, too (standard installation - and that coax comes from out of the main tuner, back into the wallplate, and through the wall, to the room with the second TV).

 

Just a black screen for video, with the "enable recording to an external device", turn-on option in the menu completely greyed out. I think it did pass the audio, though. I tried it with channels 3/4 from a VCR, along with a DVD recorder.

 

Hopefully it's different with the 222k.

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post #13 of 26 Old 10-09-2012, 05:16 PM - Thread Starter
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Ouch! Mine is a little different than that. My 222k is a duo. One receiver that runs both tv's independently. One coaxial comes from sat. to the receiver in room1. One coaxial comes from sat. to my vcr in room2. I can record just fine. But would rather have recordings saved on dvd in room2. I had DTV previously, and the technician went ahead and used the already in place coaxial where he could. The only thing he changed was a new cable the last 15 ft to the receiver from the outside wall in. I asked for a little more cable. Maybe you could hook-up a second coaxial coming from your sat. as well. Sounds a little strange to me that you have 2 receivers and they didn't use 2 separate input cables. But then again, I can only go by what they did with mine. If the guys here can't help you, just google your issue. I saw info on screens like what is happening in your room2. There must be a solution.

Good luck
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post #14 of 26 Old 10-09-2012, 05:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingB84 View Post

That sounds like a good plan. Is there anyway to tell what "refurbished" means in the case of an impending purchase? I would suppose that would be kinda difficult since "they" wouldn't know ahead of time which unit I was going to receive.

Actually its pretty simple: if you buy from WalMart website at $228, you get new never opened Magnavox MDR533. If they happen to start turning up again at J&R website at bargain prices below $200, they're "refurbs" which is really just a fancy way of saying " the box was opened, the first buyer changed their mind and returned it within a couple days, here it is 99% new and you get a killer bargain." J&R always makes it clear that the units are refurbished, its a very reputable site and you would be astounded how many AVS members have bought these refurbs from J&R (way more than those who bought "new" from WalMart). The deal is too good to pass up whenever it appears, usually on a quarterly cycle.

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Originally Posted by wajo View Post

 Less than 1/2 of 1% refurb'd. You just hear most about the returned units since those are the most prolific posters/complainers.

You act as if I said something negative about the refurbs, but I did not: there's nothing wrong with them. The fact that many clueless folk buy the Magnavox because they think they're gonna use it to pull a fast one on their cable company, only to discover the cable company is quite prepared to screw them if they try, is not the fault of the Magnavox recorder: that mistake is on the misguided original purchaser. The WalMart returns become a very nice refurb discount for secondary buyers who know how to use the Magnavox properly.
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post #15 of 26 Old 10-09-2012, 06:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CitiBear View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by wajo View Post

 Less than 1/2 of 1% refurb'd. You just hear most about the returned units since those are the most prolific posters/complainers.

You act as if I said something negative about the refurbs, but I did not: there's nothing wrong with them. The fact that many clueless folk buy the Magnavox because they think they're gonna use it to pull a fast one on their cable company, only to discover the cable company is quite prepared to screw them if they try, is not the fault of the Magnavox recorder: that mistake is on the misguided original purchaser. You of all people should not be referring to the secondary buyers of refurb Magnavoxes as "the most prolific complainers"- if it wasn't for them, you would not have seized complete control of this recorder forum in 2008. The vast majority of your army of acolytes would sooner put their grandmother to death than complain about their Magnavox: most of their posts are glowingly positive, and they form (by far) the biggest market for the refurbs (many own two or three Mags and want another). You can hear them right now, drumming their fingers, impatiently waiting for the first batch of MDR533 refurbs to hit J&R for $169...

 

Just correcting your oft-repeated "Mags being returned in droves" theme, here and elsewhere.

 

You also don't read too well, do you? I never referred to the "buyers of Mag refurbs" as "the most prolific complainers," as anyone without your fevered brain will know from reading my actual words.

 

I said: "You just hear most about the returned units since those are the most prolific posters/complainers."  To explain to you of fevered brain, that means the people who return the units are prolific posters/complainers. I understand that, to a fevered brain like yours, you might easily THINK there are DROVES of units being returned.

 

PMs are now being furiously traded!

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post #16 of 26 Old 10-09-2012, 06:27 PM - Thread Starter
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Don't mean to step into an old feud here, but all I meant was will they ever tell me if the unit was refurbished as in fixed, or refurbished as in returned and repackaged. Obviously, it would seem to be a great bargain for those that were just repackaged. Just for my own research, where did this 1 in 200 number come from for the refurbishing issue? I'd like to see that info/site. I think I will wait and see what happens with this Magnavox MDR 533. Looks good from what I've seen so far. Thanks for all the input guys.
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post #17 of 26 Old 10-09-2012, 06:33 PM
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Normally, Funai repackages returned units in plain brown boxes rather than their colorful NEW boxes, and sellers have *most always* advertised them as "Refurbished."

 

J& R is one refrub seller with units that come with a Funai/Magnavox 90-day warranty. Look for that with other sellers. I know Worldwide Distributors has NOT been an authorized Funai reseller, and there may be others.

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post #18 of 26 Old 10-09-2012, 06:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingB84 View Post

Don't mean to step into an old feud here, but all I meant was will they ever tell me if the unit was refurbished as in fixed, or refurbished as in returned and repackaged. Obviously, it would seem to be a great bargain for those that were just repackaged...

I think only one of my Philips/Magnavox DVD recorders were brand new, all the others having been refurbs. (Yeah...I've bought several. Not as many as some guys here, tho'. rolleyes.gif )

Whether the machine was one that "had the box opened and then got returned" or one that really needed repairs, it shouldn't make any difference. These refurbs have always been fine machines, in my experience. If you were to get one, somehow, that had some type of unaddressed problem, J&R would immediately take it back and replace it.
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post #19 of 26 Old 10-10-2012, 06:32 AM
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Originally Posted by KingB84 View Post

Don't mean to step into an old feud here, but all I meant was will they ever tell me if the unit was refurbished as in fixed, or refurbished as in returned and repackaged. Obviously, it would seem to be a great bargain for those that were just repackaged. Just for my own research, where did this 1 in 200 number come from for the refurbishing issue? I'd like to see that info/site. I think I will wait and see what happens with this Magnavox MDR 533. Looks good from what I've seen so far. Thanks for all the input guys.

The ratio of "repaired" units to simple open-box returns is quite small. The Magnavox design has been stable for nearly 5 years, at this point actual physical defects out-of-the box are rare. Very very few refurbs have been reported as problematic.

The 1-in-200 number comes from wajo, who thinks throwing around obscure wholesale terminology like "EOL" and "strategic partner" will make everyone think he's a deeply connected insider. Like many an entrenched bureaucrat, he firmly believes everyone outside his bubble has a "fevered brain." If he ever bothered to check himself before he wrecked himself, he would give people more than 60 secs to finalize their posts before he quotes and responds to them- anyone else could see from the timestamp I had already corrected my post prior to his reply when I realized who he really meant by "prolific Magnavox complainers." Its still not the smartest move for him to criticize even those people, because they're a big part of the Magnavox ecosystem that keeps his little fiefdom here percolating. Talk about feverish brain: of the 10,000+ plus posts in that bloated thread, count how many are related to tuner complaints before dismissing unhappy owners as a tiny fringe percentage of irrelevant people. Apparently people who complain on the WalMart website and return the units as unsuitable are useless morons, but people who park themselves on his sticky thread and insist on vainly trying to use the Mag with booby trapped cable systems or unstable off-air subchannels are all saints. The machine is very nice, at a fantastic price point, but like any other consumer product fits a certain niche while being a poor fit for others: it isn't a flawlessly-conceived magic bullet.
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post #20 of 26 Old 10-10-2012, 09:56 AM - Thread Starter
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Sounds like the thing for me to do is move my tunerless Magnavox dvd recorder/vcr into room2 and run from the old vcr to the dvd recorder to the tv. Get the new Magnavox w/tuner and hook it up in room1. My duo 222k only provides HD in room1 anyway, so the quality in room2 doesn't have to be superior. I'm just guessing that the new Magnavox is HD capable. It would be nice to see the same quality in the recording as I see when recording. As always thanks for the helpful info.
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post #21 of 26 Old 10-10-2012, 10:17 AM
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Just like your other Mag, the new Mags are all SD (480i) thru the tuner and line inputs. They can upconvert tuner/line stuff to 1080p, but not the same as true HD from the source. They do PASS HD thru the coax circuit, so any TV with a digital tuner will see true HD if you have it.

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post #22 of 26 Old 10-10-2012, 10:37 AM - Thread Starter
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What about recording on an HD tv? What will be the quality of the recording when replayed on the HD tv. I was hoping the playback would look similar to what I can see on the HD tv while recording a movie or show. Right now, the playback is just "normal". No HD quality.
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post #23 of 26 Old 10-10-2012, 10:45 AM
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The quality of the "recording" has nothing to do with your TV, it depends on the source (input to the Mag: antenna for digital/HD, cable for analog/digital/HD "massaged/converted/compressed" by them, or line input from a box).

 

Your TV determines how the downconverted 480i recordings thru the tuner or line inputs display, and whether or not you'll see true HD via the Mag's coax passthru (you have to have a HD signal and HD TV).

 

Some people say they're recording HD with their Mags, but they're really seeing an "HD-like" pic or "DVD quality" on their digital/HD channels, with programs also created in digital/HD (not repackaged analog productions). The Mag can record at ~10Mbps (1-hr-HQ rec mode), which "approaches" *some* HD proigram bit rates

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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingB84 View Post

What about recording on an HD tv? What will be the quality of the recording when replayed on the HD tv. I was hoping the playback would look similar to what I can see on the HD tv while recording a movie or show. 

 

 

It will.

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post #25 of 26 Old 10-10-2012, 05:31 PM
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Originally Posted by CitiBear View Post

Technically, it is the tuner, since its what you use to collect the satellite signal and choose channels on. But since the extension coax going to your second viewing room is carrying the box output on channel 3 or 4, the extension itself needs to be "tuned again" by any device you connect to it. Your TV can easily see the satellite extension feed, as can a VCR, or a DVD recorder with built-in tuner. But a "tunerless" recorder like the ZC320MW8B cannot see the feed, since it has no tuner to decode channel 3 or 4 (it only has line inputs). So you need the VCR to tune the extension feed on channel 3 or 4, and send it thru its line outputs to the ZC320MW8B line inputs if you want to record anything.
 

 

My dual-tunered 322 only puts out from the second tuner on something like channels 22-69 (the installers usually leave it at 60, which I think is the default), and that's what my TV tuner is tuned to. So if all of Dish's dual-tuners are the same, I'm not sure what his VCR's tuned to.

 

But if he says it's working, then I guess as long as he uses his VCR, it s irrelevant. Like I said, the 222k could be different, too.

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post #26 of 26 Old 10-10-2012, 07:31 PM - Thread Starter
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My tv in room 2 is tuned to 60 as is the vcr. I think 73 might be another choice, but i don't think my tv picked that one up. I just have to make sure and remember to hit A/V with my tv remote when recording. For some reason, the volume is way down when doing this though. Run it on about 12 regularly, but about 30 to get that volume when in A/V mode.
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