Do Taiyo Yuden & Verbatim really use different dyes for their 1x to 8x blanks - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 3 Old 10-22-2012, 05:06 PM - Thread Starter
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Do Taiyo Yuden & Verbatim really use different dyes for their 1x to 8x blanks or are they using the same 1x to 16x dye and simply including only the pre 1x to 16x burn-strategy to keep the discs more compatible with dinosaur decks built before 1x to 16x firmware became available? I mean how many people actually still buy 1x to 8x media in 2012? Is it really worth for them to have separate dye processing facilities to accommodate so few folks?

I don’t go by just specs. For instance my LG burner has enough laser-power and drive-speed to use 22x speed. From personal experience I found out by accident that the 1x to 16x Verbatim discs will actually use that speed and burn the end of a Vebatim AZO disc at 22x speed.

Check out the graphs:
1) Actual burn of a 1x to 16x AZO disc at up to 22x


2) LG burner firmware telling my PC that it can burn this 1x to 16x at a minimum 4x and maximum 22x.


Please note that 1x burning is a forced-mode and that is why it won’t show up above in my LG burn strategies (even though Verb 1x to 16x discs are capable of 1x burns. If you choose to burn something live real-time on my LG – it will burn -4x -pause 4x –pause -4x –pause – so it is actually burning at 4x speed even though it’s making a live 1x real time recording. I believe our stand-alones do have a 1x strategy without pausing but I haven’t confirmed this yet. I know that 1x to 16x discs will burn problem free at 1x and this has been confirmed by digitalfaq.com

Getting back to burning up to 22x on 1x to 16x disc – what does Verbatim have to say about this?

Actual quote from Verbatim marketing literature:

Q Does Verbatim have 20x DVD-R discs?

A You just need to purchase our 16x DVD-R discs.
A lot of leading drive manufactures have announced 20x drives recently. These high speed drives just apply such higher recording speed to 16x discs. Since Verbatim 16x discs have been used by majority of leading drive manufactures for inspecting purposes almost all high speed drives try to apply 20x speed to our 16x discs.


Reference to Verbatim 20x quote
http://www.verbatim.com.au/brochures/FAQsOptical.pdf

Yes that is an actual quote from Verbatim. Mind you that quote came out when drives topped at 20x speed, prior to my 22x LG drive.

Reading the above quote and conforming a 22x burn speed with my own experience I have no doubt that if 20x ever became an official speed (it won’t) that Verbatim and the others would put out new marketing material stating:

“New dye developed for the ultra-high-speed 1x to 22x speed.
First we developed “AZO” for up to 4x burns than we came out with “Advanced AZO” for up to 8x speed then our genius scientists tweaked the Advanced AZO dye to “Advanced AZO+” for up to 16x speed and now our new 1x to 22x dye is named Advanced AZO+ Super-Duper”

Silly isn’t it?

So now my question to AVS members is. Since by Verbatim’s own claims that their 1x to 16x discs burn at 20x and my own experience confirming this up to 22x burn speed – does that mean that AZO 1x to 16x branded discs actually take 22x laser power, even if burning at 16x speed??

It should be noted that I don’t know if Verbatim actually uses the same dye for 8x and 16x discs. At this point I'm only speculating from the evidence I have gathered so far. More research needed.
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post #2 of 3 Old 10-23-2012, 01:41 PM
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Quote:
Please note that 1x burning is a forced-mode and that is why it won’t show up above in my LG burn strategies (even though Verb 1x to 16x discs are capable of 1x burns. If you choose to burn something live real-time on my LG – it will burn -4x -pause 4x –pause -4x –pause – so it is actually burning at 4x speed even though it’s making a live 1x real time recording. I believe our stand-alones do have a 1x strategy without pausing but I haven’t confirmed this yet. I know that 1x to 16x discs will burn problem free at 1x and this has been confirmed by digitalfaq.com
Actually, 1X is burning the whole disk in 1 hr, so if someone is doing a real-time burn on a DVDR to disk, they are only burning at 1X if they are recording at HQ quality. We know from reading countless threads that burning at HQ quality is very uncommon and most people burn at SP or lower quality. That means 95% of RTD are burning at 0.5X or less.

I wonder what impact burning that slow has on these newer formulations.

- kelson h

The bitterness of poor quality lasts long after the sweetness of the low price is forgotten . . . life is too short to drink bad wine

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post #3 of 3 Old 10-23-2012, 06:01 PM - Thread Starter
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Good point Kelson.
So the question is – do stand-alone DVD recorders burn live SP recordings in:

1) 1x laser-power the same laser power as XP/HQ recordings thus over-burning the slower SP recorded discs as the laser will burn twice as long using same LD power as XP/HQ mode.

2) Slower than 1x speed for instance half 1x laser-power in SP thus “off-spec” as DVD discs at the beginning were at spec burning data at 1x same as XP/HQ.

3) Faster than real-time using the 4x pause 4x pause 4x pause method.

If indeed stand alones use method 1) or method 2) than XP/HQ seems to be the safest bet insuring the best burn. If method 3) is used than it makes no difference concerning quality of burn.

Getting back to Verbatim claiming it’s OK to burn at 20x using the same old dye:

Here is a quote from the Lite-on DVD drive manufacture in 2009 claiming that their firmware is written to burn regular dye 1x to 16x T-Y discs at 24x.

Here is the quote:
“””The Lite-On iHAS524 supports 24X DVD+R/-R writing, * a Taiyo Yuden 16X DVD+R / -R disc is required to reach 24X recording.”””

As always, reference included.
http://www.liteonodd.com/datasheet/iHAS524_spec_EN.pdf

Some picks of other people’s drive-firmware confirming a 24x speed spec with T-Y discs.




My point is that a lot of this “newer improved faster dye talk” is nothing more than marketing hype and if the DVD standards approved 24x recording (they won’t due to wobble issues) but if they did then Verbatim and T-Y would be claiming that they have “new improved faster up to 24x dye” when it probably would be the same old dye only marketed as newer faster dye. (Thanks to better drive technology)

Sorry for the long ramblings but I have some time on my hands,biggrin.gif
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