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post #1 of 43 Old 10-30-2012, 10:04 PM - Thread Starter
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Been awhile since I last visited this forum - have a Panny EH75V and it appears that my local cable co (Cox of northern virginia) may have stopped sending data via the guide channel sometime this summer. I was trying to setup for some DVDR recording sessions for the new fall season and just noticed this. Just trying to ascertain whether TVGOS is still being supported by my cable system so I see if the problems is with Cox or with my TVGOS setup on my EH75. Since the TVGOS exists on my DVD recorder I thought I'd start here, but if anyone can point me to a more relevant forum on the AVS site or elsewhere, it would be much appreciated. Thanks.

The Future ain't what it used to be...
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post #2 of 43 Old 10-31-2012, 10:16 AM
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Hi Vic, as I recall you reported this issue back in mid-January with Cox and that's the last we heard from you. Did the TVGOS signal come back in the interim and now go out again?

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post #3 of 43 Old 10-31-2012, 02:59 PM
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Hey, Vic.

 

There's a "753159852" service menu that you can access to check if the recorder's actually receiving TVGOS data.

 

Then, you could check the "Local HDTV Forum" here, to see if there's a thread for your local area cable company, and ask around if anyone's using an analog, v9 device with it and still receiving data.

 

The next thing to do would be to call your cable company to find out the situation. Ask them if they're still sending out the legacy, analog v9 data (which is specifically what the EH75/55 uses. I think the same stream might be used for v8, also. But HDD/DVD recorders mostly jumped from v7, right to v9, IIRC. v7 uses a different stream).

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post #4 of 43 Old 11-01-2012, 03:58 PM
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FWIW, I have Cox , but in Arizona. The TVGOS has been pretty reliable since the last outage, which I think lasted a couple of months about a year ago, but I might be misremembering the timing.

Today I noticed the listing have stopped coming in on my EH55 and EH75. I have them through Monday next week (11/4) then a solid No Listings for the remaining days.

Interestingly, on my E500, E95 and EH50, the grid is fully populated for the next 8 days, as it should be.
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post #5 of 43 Old 11-06-2012, 09:49 AM
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http://www.avsforum.com/t/537711/sony-dhg-hdd250-500-official-thread/25290#post_22559681
Sounds like TVGOS is officially dead frown.gif
Not that I really use it other than for my Sony TV with 24hr TVGOS but for others it will be a big loss.
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post #6 of 43 Old 11-06-2012, 04:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjeff View Post

http://www.avsforum.com/t/537711/sony-dhg-hdd250-500-official-thread/25290#post_22559681
Sounds like TVGOS is officially dead frown.gif
Not that I really use it other than for my Sony TV with 24hr TVGOS but for others it will be a big loss.

It's been on life support, at least in my area, for about a year. That's when the ads stopped.
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post #7 of 43 Old 11-07-2012, 06:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjeff View Post

http://www.avsforum.com/t/537711/sony-dhg-hdd250-500-official-thread/25290#post_22559681
Sounds like TVGOS is officially dead frown.gif
Not that I really use it other than for my Sony TV with 24hr TVGOS but for others it will be a big loss.

This should leave no doubt (or hope for that matter).
From the Sony DHG-HDD250/500 thread in the HDTV Recorders Forum
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Originally Posted by Wally1912 View Post

Just came to post I have the message in my guide as well.

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post #8 of 43 Old 11-07-2012, 07:03 AM
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I have the same message on my Sony TV with digital TVGOS, still have listings but I'm sure it will only be a matter of time.
Truthfully I rarely use it and instead use my Tivos guide but it's nice when flipping channels on my TVs tuner to be able to get the TVGOS's description. It will be interesting to see how my TV reacts to no TVGOS because like the Panasonic DVDRs TVGOS is pretty entrenched in the operating system of the TV, I hope it falls back to PSIP descriptions but have my doubts I'll get anything after TVGOS turns off.
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post #9 of 43 Old 11-07-2012, 10:23 AM
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Analog TVGOS supplied on cable was always on borrowed time since the digital transitions. The loss of digital TVGOS will hurt the Sony DHG owners the most because those units are bricks without it -- no way to manually set the clock without TVGOS. Next hit are the DTVPal DVR/CM-7000 DVR owners. Their units will still function without TVGOS but without a full guide it will be more like programming a DVD recorder than a DVR. Also, PSIP time is notoriously flaky and I'm not sure those units have a manual time-set.

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post #10 of 43 Old 11-11-2012, 08:46 PM
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I have a Panasonic DMR-EH75V using a DTV Pal Plus as the tuner. I recently received the above message about TVGOS being phased out between November and April. So, what are my options now? Is there any way to get programming information into the menu? The recorder still works great so I don't wish to replace it if possible. Are there other recorders which provide similar functionality, i.e., the ability to edit shows and then record them to DVD?

Thanks, David
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post #11 of 43 Old 11-11-2012, 09:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by david_james View Post

So, what are my options now?
The only available DVD recorders with HDD is one of the funai Magnavox recorders -- those are all that is available. They do not have the full compliment of editing features the Panasonic has (such as playlists) but they are serviceable for removing commercials and burning to DVD. They have a digital ATSC tuner so you won't need the Pal box as a translator any more. They do not have a guide to aid in programming. Programming is completely manual like a VCR. They also do not make any use of PSIP information to automatically title a recording -- you have to do that manually as well. But if you want a DVD recorder with a digital tuner, that's all there is.

Your other standalone option for OTA is a TiVo. Their network capability allows for recordings to be transferred to your PC for editing and burning to media. The recordings are in HD/5.1 but if you don't want to burn to BluRay the editing programs like Video Redo will down-convert them to SD and author the DVD with menus for you and burn it.

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post #12 of 43 Old 11-12-2012, 03:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by david_james View Post

I have a Panasonic DMR-EH75V using a DTV Pal Plus as the tuner. I recently received the above message about TVGOS being phased out between November and April. So, what are my options now? Is there any way to get programming information into the menu? The recorder still works great so I don't wish to replace it if possible. Are there other recorders which provide similar functionality, i.e., the ability to edit shows and then record them to DVD?
Thanks, David

 

Not sure what you mean, or how you were using it. The Pal itself gets it's own guide's data from PSIP, not TVGOS.

 

If you were using the Pal to convert the digital TVGOS data to analog, so that the EH75V's TVGOS would continue to populate, what source were you actually recording from, and what tuner were you using (because it couldn't have been the DTV Pal's ATSC tuner, as that has to be shut down in order to be used that way)?

 

Were you recording from an external cable or satellite tuner, using the IR blaster or cable/satellite box's channel changing feature/timers (or neither, just leaving it on one channel), or were you using the Panny's tuner to record analog cable?

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post #13 of 43 Old 11-12-2012, 10:18 AM
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Interesting, just how many devices and users are still relying on this.

Abundant OTA television is what makes this country different from all others. Lets keep it this way.
The Internet is no place for streaming video.
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post #14 of 43 Old 11-12-2012, 02:55 PM
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Yup, my pair of Toshiba RD-XS35s have been running on TVGOS flawlessly all these years now. Sad to hear we're being kicked to the curb.
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post #15 of 43 Old 11-12-2012, 09:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelson View Post

The loss of digital TVGOS will hurt the Sony DHG owners the most because those units are bricks without it -- no way to manually set the clock without TVGOS.

I'm in that situation. South Carolina ETV apparently stopped broadcasting TVGOS data a week ago, and my guide data runs out about 3 AM tonight. I'll still have a program grid filled with "No Listing" blocks, and the clock will be more or less correct until the next time the power goes out or the DHG reboots. I've ordered a TiVo Premiere and intend to get a "lifetime" subscription for it.
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post #16 of 43 Old 11-15-2012, 09:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by david_james View Post

I have a Panasonic DMR-EH75V using a DTV Pal Plus as the tuner. I recently received the above message about TVGOS being phased out between November and April. So, what are my options now?
You can still use the recorder by entering program information (channel and start/stop times) manually, of course. You can find programming information on the Internet via sites like Zap2It.
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post #17 of 43 Old 11-15-2012, 10:41 AM
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If you're still using TVGOS in a Panasonic DVDR, you'll probably want to go back and reset the unit so it's in full manual mode because, as noted above, TVGOS controls the clock and maybe some other stuff. When you first set up the machine, you make some choices about letting TVGOS run certain things. Switching back is covered in the manual. I had to do it when the OTA DTV transition hit.

Before that, the TVGOS guide was pretty handy for checking when a show was one, etc. Used it for a while to control recordings until I had a few fails (pilot error or TVGOS? I was never sure).
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post #18 of 43 Old 11-16-2012, 09:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rammitinski View Post

Not sure what you mean, or how you were using it. The Pal itself gets it's own guide's data from PSIP, not TVGOS.

If you were using the Pal to convert the digital TVGOS data to analog, so that the EH75V's TVGOS would continue to populate, what source were you actually recording from, and what tuner were you using (because it couldn't have been the DTV Pal's ATSC tuner, as that has to be shut down in order to be used that way)?

Were you recording from an external cable or satellite tuner, using the IR blaster or cable/satellite box's channel changing feature/timers (or neither, just leaving it on one channel), or were you using the Panny's tuner to record analog cable?

The DTV Pal Plus is set to TVGOS mode. The EH75V is configured to use the DTV Pal Plus as a cable box operated through the IR blaster. Configured as such, the EH75V is using the DTV Pal Plus as an external tuner.

Is there any way to get the PSIP into the EH75V's content grid? If not, is it possible to use a splitter to connect the output of the DTV Pal Plus to both the EH75V and the TV? That way, it might be possible to view the DTV Pal Pus' PSIP after resetting it out of its TVGOS mode. At least that way, we could still get a schedule.

Thanks, David
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post #19 of 43 Old 11-16-2012, 10:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by david_james View Post

The DTV Pal Plus is set to TVGOS mode. The EH75V is configured to use the DTV Pal Plus as a cable box operated through the IR blaster. Configured as such, the EH75V is using the DTV Pal Plus as an external tuner.
Is there any way to get the PSIP into the EH75V's content grid? If not, is it possible to use a splitter to connect the output of the DTV Pal Plus to both the EH75V and the TV? That way, it might be possible to view the DTV Pal Pus' PSIP after resetting it out of its TVGOS mode. At least that way, we could still get a schedule.
 

 

I'm assuming since the DTV Pal Plus can't be used with cable, and only with over-the-air transmissions, that must be what you're getting/watching/recording, right?

 

Just take the Pal out of TVGOS mode, and hook it up to a line input on the EH75V (if it isn't already), and keep using the IR blaster to control the Pal (change channels). Then, whenever you set manual timers on the Panny, in the timer setting menu you will get the option of that line input to set to record from (like L1, L2, L3). Just enter the correct line input when you set up the timer, and the IR Blaster will change to the channels you (also have to) enter in on the Panny when you set up each recording.

 

If you can't figure out how to bring up the EH75V's timer setting menu on your own, just check back in here, and someone will instruct you.

 

There's no need to split the signal - you just watch both the Pal's output, and the recordings from the HDD, through that line input (with the recorder on). If you've got the Pal running into the recorder through the RF coax input now, get yourself a set of composite (RCA) audio/video cables, so that you can hook it up through a line input (an added bonus will be that the picture quality will be better than it was through coax).

 

You need to do a reset on the Panny (by holding down the volume up and down buttons at the same time), and go through the "TVGOS setup" again. Tell it you're using an external tuner, but in place of your zip code, enter in "00000" (if you keep getting a nag screen that tells you it's still searching for a TVGOS "host channel", it usually gives up doing that after about 3 days). You'll also be asked what input you will be using. Then, just follow the prompts the rest of the way through, and set the Panny's clock manually.

 

If you're having a hard time getting the IR blaster to change the channels on the Pal correctly, you can always use the internal timers that the Pal Plus itself has to change channels. You have to go into the Pal's menu to get to the "timers" feature (I think you can only program up to something like 8 timers at a time, though). Then you just synch the timers between the Pal and the Panny to coincide.

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post #20 of 43 Old 11-22-2012, 07:26 AM
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I use a Toshiba RD-XS34 /w DTVPAL converter. How can the DTVPAL use PSIP instead of TVGOS
when the RX-XS34 gets a full 10 days of program info? PSIP is only a day at best.
I hope the DTVPAL uses PSIP after TVGOS is turned off.
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post #21 of 43 Old 11-22-2012, 06:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CC58 View Post

I use a Toshiba RD-XS34 /w DTVPAL converter. How can the DTVPAL use PSIP instead of TVGOS
when the RX-XS34 gets a full 10 days of program info? PSIP is only a day at best.
I hope the DTVPAL uses PSIP after TVGOS is turned off.
The Pal DVR uses PSIP in place of TVGOS for its scheduling, but it you are hoping the PAL CECB, used as a digital->analog TVGOS converter, will work with PSIP and do the same of PSIP->analog TVGOS -- forget it. That's a total apples & oranges scenario.

When TVGOS goes, there is no equivalent technology replacement that will keep TVGOS dependent equipment running as before.

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post #22 of 43 Old 12-15-2012, 08:11 AM
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I posted a query to Channel Master regarding the impact of Rovi's decision to terminate the TVGOS service, as I not only have one of their CM-7000Pal DVRs but a DTVPal converter box that serves my Panasonic DMR-E85HS. Here are the transcripts of the two exchanges:

Two products: 1) DTVPal converter (serving a Panasonic DMR-E85H) & 2) CM-7000Pal DVR
Don't have the S/N for either product at hand, but can provide later in response if need be
Products were purchased in 2009, don't recall offhand exact vendor(s) but can attempt to clarify if need be later
Yes -- don't have the reference # handy, but can provide later if need be

Reason for Tech Support Request: Rovi Corp. has announced they will discontinue the broadcast transmission of TV Guide On Screen information throughout North America and will completely cease everywhere by April 13, 2013. In some areas where users are still able to receive full program listing information via their units, an announcement has been presented in the on-screen message listings to this effect. I learned about this through the links provided below, but my question to Channelmaster in regards to this is simple: will the units I've noted above in use with my equipment cease functioning -- particularly with respect to the automatic time-setting reference -- when Rovi discontinues the TV Guide information via broadcast? I live in a rural area and receive only OTA broadcast television signals, and do not have Internet service or access within my house where the television, DVR and converter are located (though I do have wireless broadband service in an outbuilding where my office computers are located). If the equipment will still receive the coordinated time-setting reference information, then I may still utilize the equipment on a manual-recording basis but if the time-setting function(s) will also be discontinued, the Channel Master equipment functionality will be greatly marginalized.

http://www.allyourtv.com/index.php/latestnews/1655-rovis-decision-to-stop-support-of-tv-guide-on-screen-service-to-render-some-dvrs-useless

http://www.spiffspace.com/forum/index.php?topic=336.0

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1437798/attn-mark-buttra-re-tv-guide-on-screen-rovi-being-discontinued

http://forums.cnet.com/7723-7596_102-577430/rovi-tv-guide-data-will-be-discontinued-in-north-america/

Thank you for your email. That is a very good question. When the Rovi TV Guide goes out the CM-7000pal will still receive the guide and time information via something called PSIP. However it will be limited and won't be the best it will still give you what you need to run the CM-7000pal. Thank you and have a great day.

Will that PSIP reception functionality also apply to the DTVPal converter box, insofar as you know? I had thought Channel Master was the manufacturer of those for Echostar/Dish and had a similar model under its own brand, but may have misremembered or misunderstood. It was the only model of analog-to-digital converter box that would work reliably with the Panasonic DMR-E85H IR link gizmo when I made the decision to purchase it as the transition approached.

The guide information should still come in on the DTVpal converter box, however we do not know how much information or if it will come in complete. We don't have any control on the guide as it is a free guide. Sorry for the inconvenience.
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post #23 of 43 Old 12-15-2012, 01:12 PM
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Channel Master had nothing to do with the design of neither the DVR nor the converter box. They attained the rights to the DVR and slapped their name on it. It was the "Echostar DTV Pal DVR" first (you can check who actually manufactured it over in it's thread in "HDTV Recorders". All I remember offhand is that it was actually designed in England).

CM never sold anything like the Pal converter box, other than the Echostar Pal/TR-50-branded box itself (in fact, the only CECB Channel Master did have their name on, the CM-7000, had much better PQ than the Pal, due to it's having s-video out. Some of us here preferred to go with that model right off the bat with our TVGOS recorders, using manual timers, because the IR blasters controlled it very reliably).

Your Pal CECB has the ability to set up to 6 or 8 manual timers (don't remember which). You might be able to set up one-touch recordings on the Pal CECB through the PSIP guide (I'll have to check that out on mine), but if not, you can just set the timers manually to change channels (go through it's menu to "Timers"), or, if you used the IR blaster from the recorder on it before, you should still be able to do that now. You'll have to set up manual timers on the recorder either way. Also, I don't know how you have the box set up with the recorder now, but you'll need to have it going into a line input.

PSIP data can be rather limited and unreliable, and the time clock that each channel keeps can be a bit off, but you should get some kind of guide data that you can go by to set recordings (you might want to use an internet guide service like Titan TV or Zap2It for your guide data, though, because it's more comprehensive and goes out much further).

Also, (although it's moot at this point), there was one other model CECB that converted TVGOS for recorders - it was sold by Artec.
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post #24 of 43 Old 12-15-2012, 02:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rammitinski View Post

It was the "Echostar DTV Pal DVR" first (you can check who actually manufactured it over in it's thread in "HDTV Recorders". All I remember offhand is that the software was designed in England).
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Quote:
. . . in fact, the only CECB Channel Master did have their name on, the CM-7000, had much better PQ than the Pal, due to it's having s-video out. Some of us here preferred to go with that model right off the bat with our TVGOS recorders, using manual timers, because the IR blasters controlled it very reliably).
Absolutely. I used it with my Panasonic E-85 for 6 months that way until I bought a TiVo. Without TVGOS you would use the PAL CECB the same way except the PQ is markedly worse than the CM-7000 CECB.

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post #25 of 43 Old 12-15-2012, 03:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelson View Post

Without TVGOS you would use the PAL CECB the same way except the PQ is markedly worse than the CM-7000 CECB.

To be fair, it's perfectly acceptable on my old, 32" analog (and the CECB's were only meant to be used for SD, anyway). But there's definitely a noticable difference on the 50", HD plasma.
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post #26 of 43 Old 12-15-2012, 04:12 PM
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I could also see a noticeable difference on my 32" Panasonic 720p LCD, but I agree on a non HD tube TV it would be hard to tell the difference.
TVGOS is dead, never coming back OTA or cable, guess it's going to continue over the net but personally I wouldn't invest too much money on a product that really relied on it. To me TVGOS was always a iffy proposition, usually slow to add or delete channels and never anyone to really complain to. It was like TVGOS thought people were more a bother than their customers. Retailers like Sony or CM didn't really care either, they would just pay TVGOS a nominal one time fee to include the feature and never really follow up. Now that it's going to disappear they just throw up their hands and say.......it's not our problem:(
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post #27 of 43 Old 12-15-2012, 06:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjeff View Post

TVGOS is dead, never coming back OTA or cable, guess it's going to continue over the net but personally I wouldn't invest too much money on a product that really relied on it.
TVGOS only claim to fame was that it was transmitted by piggy-backing the data on a broadcast signal. Once you get into Internet as the supply channel, there are several pay-for guide services that are very good. I have been using Schedules Direct with my DVR software for almost a year. At $25/yr it delivers a 1 week guide with plenty of meta-data to identify repeats etc. I've never had a problem with guide data and all the shows I have season passes set for have recorded exactly on-time. A number of the open-source DVR packages provide support for Schedules Direct.

If you read the TVGOS related threads on the other forums, you find that a large number of TVGOS users feel entitled to getting the free guide forever because they bought a piece of kit that could use the data.

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The bitterness of poor quality lasts long after the sweetness of the low price is forgotten . . . life is too short to drink bad wine

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post #28 of 43 Old 12-15-2012, 07:05 PM
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I was trying to warn people not to even bother with buying a used Sony DVR the last couple of years, but I pretty much got driven out of it's thread for continuing to suggest so (and this is coming from someone who was once an extremely satisfied Sony owner).

But you know that story.
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post #29 of 43 Old 12-15-2012, 07:56 PM
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Yup. One can see ex-TiVo haters now in the TiVo thread switching to the "new" box and acting all surprised that it works so well.

- kelson h

The bitterness of poor quality lasts long after the sweetness of the low price is forgotten . . . life is too short to drink bad wine

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post #30 of 43 Old 12-17-2012, 05:03 PM
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After many years of a long and fruitful existence, TVGOS has now gone dark here.
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