FR (Flex Recording) on EH55. How do you stop part way through? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 21 Old 12-05-2012, 05:28 PM - Thread Starter
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The question is in the title line, how do I STOP part way into the recording?

I know the manual says on page 26 to press STOP. I have two EH55's, and neither one has read the manual. No buttons that I could find did anything, whether on the remote or on the machine itself.

The manual also states that to find the remaining time, press STATUS. That is not necessary; the time displayed is in "countdown" mode.

My solution was to unplug the Power cord. That worked!

I did confirm some gems of wisdom published on this forum. Our daughter had a vhs tape with 4 hours 58 minutes of 1989 Alaska trip that she wanted converted to dvd.

My (our) question was: One disc, two discs, or three discs? How much difference would the different timings make? Using a titler, I made up a ten-second test file to be follwed by a one hour file, a three-hour file, and a four hour 58-minute file. My plan was to start each test in FR mode and then abort the recording after 30 to 60 seconds, and compare.

It took much longer than 60 seonds to find a way to stop the thing, but we finally learned it would stop if we "pulled the plug."

Results, hdmi to 32" Panasonic hd tv, we detected no difference between the starts for the one-hour and three-hour, confirming the common opinion here. We, or I, was rather surprised at how much fuzzier the five-hour start was, again confirming the "keep it under four hours" forum advice.
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post #2 of 21 Old 12-05-2012, 06:30 PM
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It sounds like you may have used OTR instead of FR?
I have several EH-55s and use FR every day, to stop a FR all you need to do is push STOP(either remote or unit). You can do it seconds or hours into your FR recording, it doesn't matter.
Access FR from the FR menu(or the dedicated FR button on older Panasonic remotes) and enter the time you want(my favorite speed is what I call fr2.7 or fr3, the speed that would put 2hrs 42 minutes or 3hrs/DVD.
After you've recorded what you want just push STOP(or the recorder will automatically stop after the amount of time you've entered in the FR screen) and you'll have a title recorded in that fr2.7 or fr3 speed. Once on the HDD you can HS copy multiple titles(whatever will fit) to DVD.
The "remaining time" is as you said a countdown of the time you've entered in the FR screen.

In your example I'd make 2 fr titles with FR set to 2hrs 33 minutes each and a dual layer DVD. Go into FR screen and enter 2hrs 33 minutes, push PLAY on your tape and REC(or enter) on your EH-55. After about 2hrs 30 minutes(but before 2hrs 33 minutes) look for a good place to pause your VHS tape. Pause your tape and push STOP on your EH-55. Next go to FR screen again and enter 2hrs 33 minutes again, push REC or enter on your EH-55 and PLAY on your VCR. After ~2 1/2 hrs your tape should come to an end, then push STOP on your EH-55.
You'll have 2 titles of approx 4GBs each(which will easily fit on a 8.5 GB dual later DVD). HS those two titles to a new DL blank and when you play it back you'll have only a slight delay between the two titles(2 titles will be on your DVD but when playing back the player will automatically move from one to the next, again with only a slight pause).
If you'd rather split your tape between 2 SL DVDs then I'd set FR for 2hrs 30 minutes, in this case you'll waste ~400 MBs/DVD because you can't totally fill up a DVD with one title using FR(at least not without burning realtime and using a Panasonic EZ recorder to "prep" your discs).
AFA dual layer DVDs, I only use 2.4x(8x would probably be OK too) Verbatim AZO +R discs. I've not had good luck with "cheap" DL blanks. -R DL discs are also good but they are extremely hard to find and very expensive. I usually pay ~$1/DL blank in 50 spindles, expect to pay quite a bit more in smaller qualities or if not on sale. Because of the cost and complexity of DL media I just don't bother with "cheap" blanks smile.gif

For your reference FR set to the following times uses ~ the following MBs/minute:
2hrs-34.1MBs/min
2hrs 30 minutes-27.1 MBs/min
2hrs 42 min-25MBs/min
3hrs-22.65MBs/min
4hrs-17.3MBs/min
I posted a chart a while back with many more times and MBs/min all figured out by test recordings using FR and various canned speeds.
A blank SL disc holds 4409MB and a blank DL blank holds 8028MB.
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post #3 of 21 Old 12-05-2012, 08:04 PM - Thread Starter
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Ah-hah!!! Thanks jjeff for your speedy reply. No, I did not use the OTR nor the FR menu. I had the material on the hdd, baby-sitting it because I wasn't sure at that time how long it was. At this point, I was trying to get it FROM the hdd TO disc. I hadn't thought of DL; not sure how many viewers would have DL-readable players.

I used "Other Functions"and "Advanced Copy", set up the Copy List for more than two hours and selected Mode FR. Try it, see what you get.

Actually, I broke it to 1hr 53 minutes, a more natural break point in the material, also allowed for high speed copy on that disc. The other "leg" was under four hours, at 3:05, so that gave just one real-time copy.

Frankly, I hadn't thought of using FR for reading material TO the hdd. Nearly all of my recording is live programs, church services, or an event of some kind, or camcorder. I can't remember converting a vhs tape to dvd, especially not an EP tape.

Thanks again, jjeff. "There's always a logical explanation" (once you find it).
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post #4 of 21 Old 12-06-2012, 04:47 AM
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That explains it, I've never used FR going from the HDD to DVD, I always use FR to originally put things on the HDD and then do the lossless HS copy to DVD.
AFA dual layer blanks, every player ever made is capable of playing back DL discs(almost all commercial DVDs are dual layer) but you may run into a few very very old(pre Y2K) that may not play back discs of the + format(the most common DL blanks).
I don't use DL blanks very often but in your case it sounded like the perfect solution to getting 5hrs of material on one disc in a very good recording speed.
I think churchavguy has also reported +R DL playback problems using a Panasonic BD player, something about how Panasonic DVDRs record to the + material, +R DLs playback just fine on Panasonic BD players if they were recorded on a PC.
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post #5 of 21 Old 12-06-2012, 11:28 AM - Thread Starter
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And I've never used FR to put things ON the hdd! It seems to me that on one end or the other FR would do some compressing, and if there will be considerable editting out of material, there may be more compressing than needed if used on the front end. I probably don't understand how all this stuff works.

I might add that though I haven't done much tape-to-dvd, my first purchase of a dvdr, an E100H in 2003 or 2004 was just for that purpose. I had 6 cassettes of Hi-8 video from our 1993 trip to the Solomon Islands, and though I have a pair of EV-S7000 Hi-8 editting vcr's that talk to each other, I didn't want to be juggling tapes on the input vcr. For a single tape, they do a beautiful job going back and forth to pick up the scenes, but multiple---, nope. The E100H really made that a dream task. PC? I had a frustrating experience back in 2002, did my task on the EV-S7000's and never looked back.

I do considerable satellite and OTA public television recording. Here the Magnvox really shines, compared to juggling the Zinwell scheduling on the converter box and matching that schedule on the Panasonic.

As for single disc vs two or three, as my daughter said, Who is going to want to watch five hours at a single sitting? or even three hours? The DL may be a solution, but the best?

jjeff, why don't you try an FR on a greater than 2-hour COPY LIST and see where that Stop button lies?
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post #6 of 21 Old 12-06-2012, 01:20 PM
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Press and hold RETURN(on remote) for 5 seconds to cancel.
Even though you are using FR you are actually dubbing, the above trick is how to cancel a dubbing once started. Note it doesn't matter if your using FR or a HS dub, the procedure for cancelling is the same.
For best picture quality(to reduce a reencode) you always want to use HS(lossless) to go from the HDD to DVD. In your example you are doing two encodes, one from your analog source to the HDD and then another when you are changing the mode from one speed to another. A HDD Magnavox is the same, although with a Magnavox you don't have the FR option(but they do have more canned or preset speeds).
Always try and get whats on the HDD the exact speed you want on your DVD, then you can use HS and eliminate one encode smile.gif
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post #7 of 21 Old 12-06-2012, 01:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjeff View Post

That explains it, I've never used FR going from the HDD to DVD, I always use FR to originally put things on the HDD and then do the lossless HS copy to DVD.
AFA dual layer blanks, every player ever made is capable of playing back DL discs(almost all commercial DVDs are dual layer) but you may run into a few very very old(pre Y2K) that may not play back discs of the + format(the most common DL blanks).
I don't use DL blanks very often but in your case it sounded like the perfect solution to getting 5hrs of material on one disc in a very good recording speed.
I think churchavguy has also reported +R DL playback problems using a Panasonic BD player, something about how Panasonic DVDRs record to the + material, +R DLs playback just fine on Panasonic BD players if they were recorded on a PC.

I too almost never use the FR copy from the HDD to the optical disk. I assume you avoind it for similar reasons: I just don' tlike using my optical drive to record in realtime. I have used it, but rarely, and I usually try really hard to avoid it. Also, I THINK it loses all the chapter marks I put in and puts in its own every six minutes or so.

The DL disk issue is complicated, but as simply as possible, I have used my Panasonic DVD recorders to make Dl disks occasionally--A lot more often than I have use FR from the HDD to the optical disk. The Verbatim +R DL disks are the only ones readily available that are any good. The problem is, the Panasonic does not make a "standard" +R DL disk, so on some players, in my case, a Sony DVD player (not Panasonic like jjeff mistakenly remembered) it would not play the disks. I have had no problems with other players. There are -R DL disks available, but the only ones I trust are JVC T-Y blanks, which are unavailable in the country for some reason. I have a source in the UK, but they are very costly when compared to the Verbatim +R DL blanks available here. The -R DL disks play on every machine I have ever tried them with, so they are more compatable, but as I said, nearly unobtainable. Stay away from other DL disks, you WILL be sorry.

Luke

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post #8 of 21 Old 12-06-2012, 03:36 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjeff View Post

Press and hold RETURN(on remote) for 5 seconds to cancel.
Even though you are using FR you are actually dubbing, the above trick is how to cancel a dubbing once started. Note it doesn't matter if your using FR or a HS dub, the procedure for cancelling is the same.
For best picture quality(to reduce a reencode) you always want to use HS(lossless) to go from the HDD to DVD. In your example you are doing two encodes, one from your analog source to the HDD and then another when you are changing the mode from one speed to another. A HDD Magnavox is the same, although with a Magnavox you don't have the FR option(but they do have more canned or preset speeds).
Always try and get whats on the HDD the exact speed you want on your DVD, then you can use HS and eliminate one encode smile.gif

Thank you for the education. I hadn't given much thought to the double encode.

But still, if I end up deleting 1/3 of the material before the dub, haven't I encoded a lot more vigorously than needed?
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post #9 of 21 Old 12-06-2012, 04:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Church AV Guy View Post

The problem is, the Panasonic does not make a "standard" +R DL disk, so on some players, in my case, a Sony DVD player (not Panasonic like jjeff mistakenly remembered) it would not play the disks.
I could have sworn it was a BD player.....I have many Sony DVD players and they all play my Panasonic burnt +R DL discs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RichardT View Post

....
But still, if I end up deleting 1/3 of the material before the dub, haven't I ?
Editing on the HDD does not incur a reencode, only dubbing in realtime will do that. The tricky thing about using FR and editing on the HDD is it's hard to know what to set FR in the first place. You want to have it in a speed that when edited will HS copy to a DVD.
As Luke said another advantage of a HS dub is it's the only way to retain any chapter marks you may have made on the HDD. The one disadvantage of using HS over a realtime dub(when you've made edits on the HDD) is a realtime dub will kind of smooth out any glitches or slight pauses whereas a HS dub passes them through and you may notice slight pauses where you've made your edit.
Like Luke I really really try and HS dub everything to disc but if your satisfied with the way you do it thats OK too, if only one way was right then Panasonic(and other HDD mfgs.) wouldn't have added the various options smile.gif

edit: I think I now know what you mean about "encoded a lot more vigorously than needed". This is true if you want to have just one title in the maximum bitrate for the DVD. Generally I put multiple titles/DVD and in that case things are a little bit easier. In your example of 2 titles you could record at a FR bitrate that in it's entirety added to another title would be too large for a DVD but after you edited both titles the combination could add up to a full DVD.
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post #10 of 21 Old 12-06-2012, 05:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjeff View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Church AV Guy View Post

The problem is, the Panasonic does not make a "standard" +R DL disk, so on some players, in my case, a Sony DVD player (not Panasonic like jjeff mistakenly remembered) it would not play the disks.
I could have sworn it was a BD player.....I have many Sony DVD players and they all play my Panasonic burnt +R DL discs.

Ha, you're correct. I have had both a Sony DVD and a Sony BD player. Neither of them would properly play any of the +R disks I have made with my Panasonic DVD recorders. I forgot about the Sony BD player because I discovered the problem and returned it almost immediately for a different manufacturer (can't remember which just now), which DOES play the disks without issue.

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post #11 of 21 Old 12-07-2012, 11:32 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjeff View Post

Editing on the HDD does not incur a reencode, only dubbing in realtime will do that. The tricky thing about using FR and editing on the HDD is it's hard to know what to set FR in the first place. You want to have it in a speed that when edited will HS copy to a DVD.
As Luke said another advantage of a HS dub is it's the only way to retain any chapter marks you may have made on the HDD. The one disadvantage of using HS over a realtime dub(when you've made edits on the HDD) is a realtime dub will kind of smooth out any glitches or slight pauses whereas a HS dub passes them through and you may notice slight pauses where you've made your edit.
I think I now know what you mean about "encoded a lot more vigorously than needed". This is true if you want to have just one title in the maximum bitrate for the DVD. Generally I put multiple titles/DVD and in that case things are a little bit easier. In your example of 2 titles you could record at a FR bitrate that in it's entirety added to another title would be too large for a DVD but after you edited both titles the combination could add up to a full DVD.

Somehow, I'm pretty dense. FR Recording: We have a source of a given length, we have an "encoded " length, and we have a length that will end up on
the dvd.

What determines these values. If I have a one-hour program that will edit down to 40 minutes, how do I tell that to FR? If I specify 40 minutes in the FR menu, won't it stop recording when the clock reaches 40 minutes? I can get three of these onto a regular dvd using "normal" SP edit procedure; what does FR buy me? Could I use FR to get 4 or 5 40-minute episodes HS to a dvd?

If I have 4 hours of tape, what determines its encoding so that it will HS to a 4.7 gb dvd? (Assuming it will.)
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post #12 of 21 Old 12-07-2012, 01:48 PM - Thread Starter
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Couple more questions; 1. FR to put two 2-hr tapes to HS to one dvd, how do I specify that?

2. If I FR 4hrs 2 minutes so I can selectivley drop 2 to 5 minutes to fit a good break point, would it encode at the lower quality over-4-hour rate?
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post #13 of 21 Old 12-07-2012, 02:00 PM
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FR can be quite confusing when you get into multiple titles/DVD, and YES to your question about what would happen if you set FR for 40 minutes(recording would stop and you'd have one title in the XP speed(1hr mode) which is our Panasonics fastest speed).
In your example to record 3 titles that you know the combination of which would edit down to a total of 2hrs you would set FR for 2hrs for each of the 3 titles. Lets say your first raw title lasted 1hr you could push STOP after the 1hr(you could also let it record for the full 2hrs FR was set for but this would cause extra wear and tear on your machines and you'd only have to delete that material anyway). Do the same for your remaining titles pushing STOP after the raw footage was done if you wanted. Next edit each of your 3 titles and when you get done the total should equal ~2hrs. Next you would HS copy all three titles which should almost fill up a blank DVD.
Of course in your example since your total material equaled 2hrs you could have just as well used SP which would have been easier but the real advantage of FR is if you like speeds inbetween the canned speeds. I prefer no more than what I call the 3hr mode and really prefer to be more around 2hrs 42 minutes per DVD. For non critical recordings I may use LP but I really never go slower than LP nor faster than SP(unless I'm only putting one thing on a DVD and it's less than 2hrs).

As you can see it really makes no sense to set FR for shorter than 1hr when recording to the HDD, it will just use XP but where it would make sense is if you were recording directly to DVD on a partial DVD. In this case if you had a 3/4 full DVD and set FR for 23 minutes you'd end up with 1 extra 23 minute title in a speed I'd call FR3(half way between SP and LP.

Using FR for a title you know you need to edit after tends to get quite tricky, the reason is when using FR you really need to know what the end result will be which can be hard unless you've already edited your title.
If my instructions are still confusing maybe Luke will chime in, I know he also uses FR frequently, maybe he has a better way of explaining it's ins and outs smile.gif I know it very well myself but as I said before it gets very complicated trying(especially in written words) how it works.

RichardT, I see you posted a couple questions while I was typing, I'll try and answer those in my next post.
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post #14 of 21 Old 12-07-2012, 02:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RichardT View Post

Couple more questions; 1. FR to put two 2-hr tapes to HS to one dvd, how do I specify that?
2. If I FR 4hrs 2 minutes so I can selectivley drop 2 to 5 minutes to fit a good break point, would it encode at the lower quality over-4-hour rate?
1. Is the 2hrs the total tape length or what they will edit down to? If total then in that case I'd just use the canned LP speed. If the 2hrs are the raw time and you planned on editing them on the HDD then you really need to know the edited time to know what to set FR for.

2. Using FR set for anything longer than 4hrs will result in the machine dropping to 1/2 D1 resolution, something I really really try and avoid. In this example I'd also use LP. Using LP to the HDD you'll be able to fit ~4hrs 14 minutes on a blank SL DVD, it's one of the advantages of first burning to the HDD and later HS copying to DVD. Using SP to the HDD you'll be able to HS copy ~2hrs 7 minutes to a standard DVD.

In both your examples it would be better to use canned speeds to the HDD, the problem using FR is it produces a buffer of ~400MBs. What this means is if you set FR for 2hrs it will STOP recording after 2hrs(actually a few seconds less) and that one title will be ~4000MBs(4 GBs). A standard formatted DVD holds ~4407MBs so your wasting ~400MBs if you only HS that one title to a DVD. Thats the flip side of using FR, at times it can maximize bitrate but at times it wastes more disc space than if you had just used a canned speed like SP or LP.
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post #15 of 21 Old 12-07-2012, 03:40 PM - Thread Starter
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THANK YOU for your patience, explanations and cautions. This, plus repeated perusing of the manual, I think I'm beginning to get the picture. The manual doesn't like edits in the FR mode, and gears its target to the 4.7 gb dvd. It's comforting to know you are reasonably comfortable with LP but have strong aversion beyond that, EP. I agree, as confirmed in some earlier tests I ran a couple of days ago.

I hadn't realized LP was still within the "good" 4-hour range. Thanks again.
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post #16 of 21 Old 12-07-2012, 09:57 PM
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SUBJECT: Kudos (Once Again!) to jjeff For His Panasonic FR Knowledge! smile.gif
.
Although not directly related to RichardT's questions, jjeff helped me understand Panasonic FR on my DMR-EZ17 a few years back. smile.gif

I posted *MANY* (IMHO) useful Panasonic LINKs in a FAQ back on 08/21/08 that I titled "DigaDo's Panasonic DVDR Tips:" since I regarded him as the MOST ACTIVE Panasonic Guru and I had hoped that he would 'Copy-N-Paste' my initial startup post into a thread of his own, which he could then continue to edit / add to as necessary. Unfortunately, he declined, IMO, believing *INCORRECTLY* that *EVERY* FAQ needed to be as complete and regularly maintained as wajo's Magnavox DVDR FAQ frown.gif.
.
  • RichardT,
    .
    Take a look at LINKs #7 & 8 in: and see if they add anything to your FR Knowledge.
    .
  • wajo,
    .
    Please take a look at the last two bullets in LINK #30 and advise me how to get the NEW (*DIFFICULT*! mad.gif ) forum software to display like the OLD (*RELIABLE*! smile.gif ) forum software.

    Thanks! biggrin.gif

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post #17 of 21 Old 12-10-2012, 11:46 AM
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjeff View Post

Editing on the HDD does not incur a reencode, only dubbing in realtime will do that. The tricky thing about using FR and editing on the HDD is it's hard to know what to set FR in the first place. You want to have it in a speed that when edited will HS copy to a DVD.
As Luke said another advantage of a HS dub is it's the only way to retain any chapter marks you may have made on the HDD. The one disadvantage of using HS over a realtime dub(when you've made edits on the HDD) is a realtime dub will kind of smooth out any glitches or slight pauses whereas a HS dub passes them through and you may notice slight pauses where you've made your edit.
I think I now know what you mean about "encoded a lot more vigorously than needed". This is true if you want to have just one title in the maximum bitrate for the DVD. Generally I put multiple titles/DVD and in that case things are a little bit easier. In your example of 2 titles you could record at a FR bitrate that in it's entirety added to another title would be too large for a DVD but after you edited both titles the combination could add up to a full DVD.

Somehow, I'm pretty dense. FR Recording: We have a source of a given length, we have an "encoded " length, and we have a length that will end up on
the dvd.

What determines these values. If I have a one-hour program that will edit down to 40 minutes, how do I tell that to FR? If I specify 40 minutes in the FR menu, won't it stop recording when the clock reaches 40 minutes? I can get three of these onto a regular dvd using "normal" SP edit procedure; what does FR buy me? Could I use FR to get 4 or 5 40-minute episodes HS to a dvd?

If I have 4 hours of tape, what determines its encoding so that it will HS to a 4.7 gb dvd? (Assuming it will.)

Okay, there is a bit here to pile through. First, a standard DVD has, as jjeff has said, 4409MB of "space". The Panasonic DVD recorders have a few default, basic quality, or compression, settings. (I call them that.) These numbers are approximate, and based on HS dubbing, but anyway, XP will put about 1:03 on a blank DVD, SP 2:07, LP 4:15, and then there are EP6 and EP8 that I never use. This is the amount of TIME that the machine compresses into that 4409MB on a blank DVD. If you have a movie that is 1:30, or 2:30 long, using SP for the first results in :30 of wasted space on the disk. If you use LP on the second, you have 1:45 minutes of wasted space eek.gif on a disk at that compression level).

FR allows you to use compression levels that are between the standard amounts of XP. SP, etc. so you don't have SO much wasted space, but it fits the recording into a 4000MB title, not 4409MB, so you still are wasting about 10% of the space on a disk. frown.gif I *THINK* that is a throw-back to some previous standard that they nevr updated. frown.giffrown.gif IF you set the FR mode for 1:30 and record that 1:30 movie, it will make a title of 4000MB that can be HS dubbed to a disk. If you make a FR title of the second movie of 2:30, it will make a title of 4000MB that can be HS dubbed to a disk. Arguably, this is a more efficient use of the space you have on a disk, even with the 10% under utilization.

Now for the tricky parts: If you have a movie with commercials and you wnt to fit it onto a disk using FR, you have to estimate the time without commercials (Yes, guess) and record it in two parts (hopefully taking advantage of a commercial break). So, if it's two hours of broadcast, and you guess it's really only going to be 1:30 after the commercials are gone, you set the FR for 1:30, for the first half, stop it after an hour or so at a commercial break, then record the second hour, also using the 1:30 FR setting. Edit the commercials out of two titles, combine them using playlists, and hopefully HS dub that to a disk. I have found that my recorders can be finacky about HS dubbing a playlist made using FR this way, so you MIGHT need to record the two titles separately and "endure" a one second pause between the two titles when the disk is played back. As I said, tricky bits.

If you want to use that whole 4409MB (rathern than just the 4000MB that FR is hardwired to), then you have--HAVE--to break up your recording inot two parts. and do a little calculating to determine the actual FR time to set in order to make the recording 10% larger than if you had used the actual time. I have tried to come up with an actual formula, but never finished the calculations into a closed form equation. I strongly recommend you be a bit conservative in your estimates because if the end title is just a little over, you will either have to cut something, OR start all over with a greater time. mad.gifeek.gif

If you ever use DL disks, and want to use FR, then you have even more calculations to make, and again, you are constrained into breaking a movie up into two separate titles. I don't have the actual number in front of me, but a DL disk has about 8000MB. This is a convenient number as it's twice the default of 4000GB which allows you to just divide the total time in half for the FR setting.

If you want to have several "titles" on one disk, you need to figure out the total time and enter that in for each FR recording. If you have four shows that are 0:45 each and you want to put them on one disk, you need to enter 3:00 for each one (the total of four 0:45 titles) and then HS dub them to a blank disk. This will fit them into a total of 4000MB remember. If you want to use the whole 4409MB, then you need to use a number like 2:40 rather than 3:00 (about 10% less) for each title.

All of the above is for recording to the HDD and then HS dubbing to a blank DVD. If you record directly onto a DVD, it is even more complicated eek.gif. For various reasons, I almost never do direct recordings to the optical media, so someone else needs to explain the issues of successive recordings onto a disk with decreasing free space with each recording.

Luke

Evil is charming and beautiful. It makes you doubt yourself. It asks for one small compromise after another until it whittles you down, and it functions best when no one believes in it.-JOA
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post #18 of 21 Old 12-10-2012, 01:16 PM
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I don't have the actual number in front of me, but a DL disk has about 8000MB. This is a convenient number as it's twice the default of 4000GB which allows you to just divide the total time in half for the FR setting.
8028MBs but as you said it's roughly 2x the size a full FR recording which is convenient.
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All of the above is for recording to the HDD and then HS dubbing to a blank DVD. If you record directly onto a DVD, it is even more complicated eek.gif. For various reasons, I almost never do direct recordings to the optical media, so someone else needs to explain the issues of successive recordings onto a disk with decreasing free space with each recording.
Because Panasonic also insists on a ~400MB buffer when directly recording to DVD you have no real easy way to totally fill up a DVD using a direct to DVD burn.
The one exception I've found to this is if you have a newer EZ or EA series Panasonic and also a older ES or EH series recorder. In that case you can prep the discs by recording a short(I use 5 second EP8) title on your EA or EZ Panasonic and then deleting the title. Take the disc and insert it in your ES or EH series Panasonic and you'll be able to do a direct to DVD burn of ~2hrs 7 minutes SP or better yet if you do a FR recording and let it record to the end it will TOTALLY fill up the disc, meaning if the DVD was basically empty your one FR title would be about 4400 MBs in size. I don't believe this trick works for DL blanks, besides with most older Panasonics direct to DVD burning is not possible with DL discs, you have to go the the HDD first.
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post #19 of 21 Old 12-10-2012, 04:24 PM
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I don't have the actual number in front of me, but a DL disk has about 8000MB. This is a convenient number as it's twice the default of 4000GB which allows you to just divide the total time in half for the FR setting.
8028MBs but as you said it's roughly 2x the size a full FR recording which is convenient.
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All of the above is for recording to the HDD and then HS dubbing to a blank DVD. If you record directly onto a DVD, it is even more complicated eek.gif. For various reasons, I almost never do direct recordings to the optical media, so someone else needs to explain the issues of successive recordings onto a disk with decreasing free space with each recording.
Because Panasonic also insists on a ~400MB buffer when directly recording to DVD you have no real easy way to totally fill up a DVD using a direct to DVD burn.
The one exception I've found to this is if you have a newer EZ or EA series Panasonic and also a older ES or EH series recorder. In that case you can prep the discs by recording a short(I use 5 second EP8) title on your EA or EZ Panasonic and then deleting the title. Take the disc and insert it in your ES or EH series Panasonic and you'll be able to do a direct to DVD burn of ~2hrs 7 minutes SP or better yet if you do a FR recording and let it record to the end it will TOTALLY fill up the disc, meaning if the DVD was basically empty your one FR title would be about 4400 MBs in size. I don't believe this trick works for DL blanks, besides with most older Panasonics direct to DVD burning is not possible with DL discs, you have to go the the HDD first.

OLDER Panasonics? My EH59/69 machines won't record directly to a DL disk. On page 11 of them EH59/69 manual:
Quote:
You cannot directly record to a DVD-R DL and +R DL disc on this unit. Record to the HDD and then copy to the disc.

That Rube-Goldberg method of tricking your machines into being able to use the whole disk is interesting. I don't have one of those machines, so I cannot use it, but I have seen it documented before.

I have made many disks using the two title method, and if you are cautious where you put the break between the titles, it is almost unnoticeable. If I didn't actually know where the break was I would not be aware of it. The layer break encountered when using DL disks is worse (much more noticeable) and you have no control over where the machine puts that break. frown.gif

FR recording seems confusing and intimidating at first, but it is not that bad after you use it a bit. Unfortuately, the Panasonic attempt at simplifying it for the masses, works against it for serious users. frown.gif The MN record option used by other machines is VERY superior, but Panasonics don't have those options, so we have to use what we have. Given the strengths and weaknesses of the various machines, it's a trade-off (compromise). I would be very reluctant to give up the playlist feature, which I use MUCH more often than I use FR recording, so I am content. Yeah, MN would be nice to have, but I am (obviously) happy with my Panasonic recorders.

For the OP, the MN system allows you to record any amount of content at verious selectable compressions outside the standard ones. For what *I* do, it would be much simpler. Oh well.

Luke

Evil is charming and beautiful. It makes you doubt yourself. It asks for one small compromise after another until it whittles you down, and it functions best when no one believes in it.-JOA
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post #20 of 21 Old 12-11-2012, 10:58 AM
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OLDER Panasonics? My EH59/69 machines won't record directly to a DL disk..
Yes I don't know why our internationals don't allow direct to DVD burning but by newer I meant then non HDD EZ and EA models. I agree with your about the FR vs MN option but as you said we have to live with what we got and with Panasonics that would be FR smile.gif
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post #21 of 21 Old 12-12-2012, 12:31 PM - Thread Starter
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FR recording seems confusing and intimidating at first, but it is not that bad after you use it a bit.

For the OP, the MN system allows you to record any amount of content at verious selectable compressions outside the standard ones. For what *I* do, it would be much simpler. Oh well.

Many Thanks. I think I'm getting the picture. (pun intended.) Specifying the "edit-finish" size makes sense when we can use multiple recordings and STOP input recording at will.
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