External capture card/ recorder to record from component outputs of set top box with macrovision protection. - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 20 Old 02-21-2013, 07:49 AM - Thread Starter
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Hi, i got a new digital cable set top box with component outputs. I have avermedia game capture hd recorder that takes in component input and reocords on usb drive.

The avermedia recorder can successfully pass through the video from the stb to the tv but cannot record and says that the content you are trying to copy is protected by macrovision. Their website says that it can record from set top boxes.

I dont know what to do - is there any workaround to bypass macrovision other than using expensive hardwares ( i do not want the video quality to suffer)

Or can i buy a new recorder that can record even macrovision protected content.

Ples help - thank you!
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post #2 of 20 Old 02-21-2013, 10:49 PM
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For your info only, here's an extreme option capable even to record form HDMI sources:


Recorder with HDMI Inputs? Yes it exists


Also there's the Hauppauge HD-PVR2



Which should be under forum testing right now. (I guess)
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post #3 of 20 Old 02-22-2013, 09:38 AM
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The Video Filter is 1080i compatible. It should work for you. There will be more filters available in about a week or so. Write me a PM if you are interested.
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post #4 of 20 Old 02-22-2013, 11:09 AM - Thread Starter
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Thank you guys for the inputs.

I was looking at the old hauppauge hd pvr but it turns out that hd pvr 2 is cheaper and also has hdmi inputs. Now i have a few questions.

1. Does hd pvr 2 allow to record macrovision protected content ???
2. Does it allow to record from composite input and at the same time pass through the video through component or hdmi ??
3. My old tv has only component and composite inputs - can i still pass thru the video from hd pvr 2 to my tv ??
4. for now i only need to record in SD 576i...is it ok?

If option 2 and 3 do not work - it is ok - i can spend more and get hauppauge hd pvr 1212 - but it is a must that it can record macrovsion protected content as that is d main reason of selling d avermedia card:)
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post #5 of 20 Old 02-22-2013, 11:46 AM
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1. NO

All these recording devices must honor any copy-protection signals and deny the recording if they are present. That is why you need to buy a separate copy-protection removal box (a.k.a "video stabilizer") like The Video Filter. That goes for macro-vision on the analog inputs and HDCP on the HDMI input.

The HD PVR 2 Gaming Edition is mostly for people who want to record their gameplay from an X-Box or PS3. For recording TV you would use the HD PVR 1212, the HD PVR 2 1512 or the Colossus. But you already have the Avermedia card. None of these will record copy-protected source without a filter box in between.

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post #6 of 20 Old 02-22-2013, 03:01 PM
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FWIW the HDMI recorder Profhat talked about will record protected HDMI but the recording is only playable on the device that recorded it, IOW you couldn't hook it's HDD to your PC and expect it to play. Also another big caveat about that device is you need to arrange to have it shipped from sources outside the US(I believe HK or AUS) so using component with the Hauppauge and a filter is probably the best and for sure easiest way to go.
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post #7 of 20 Old 02-22-2013, 10:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by techspark View Post

2. Does it allow to record from composite input and at the same time pass through the video through component or hdmi ??

If option 2 and 3 do not work - it is ok - i can spend more and get hauppauge hd pvr 1212 - but it is a must that it can record macrovsion protected content as that is d main reason of selling d avermedia card:)

I own the PVR 1212 and have it connected to my cable box using component cables and record from the movie channels I subscribe to regularly. I've got a huge library of HD movies recorded through the 1212 which I play back from a small server through a Western Digital WDTV media player box to my 1080 plasma and the results are spectacular. Don't be obsessed with having an HDMI input to record from, because unless you're analyzing the video it records with instruments, you won't be able to tell the difference. This was the setup I adopted when I gradually retired my two DVD recorders from regular use since it allowed me to record in HD and also easily edit the files on my PC.

The PVR 1212 has a component input and component output pass-through, but the pass-through only displays the component input and not the composite or s-video inputs. It's designed so that you can insert it in the signal path between a component connection between your set top box and your TV without losing that connectivity. It doesn't upcale or convert the video or s-video input onto the PVR 1212's component outputs, so don't expect it to do that.

I've never had any copy protection issues whatsoever recording from my cable box in HD on any content using the 1212. For whatever reason, most set top boxes don't bother with copy protection on the component outputs, probably because recording devices that use component video are few and far between. For that reason you'll actually make out better if recording from component then trying to find a work-around to record from HDMI, which will be heavily copy-protected.
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post #8 of 20 Old 02-23-2013, 09:36 AM
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Great info. Many cable companies do not apply copy-protection even though they may encrypt the same channel. But for those that do, the OP will need a copy-protection filter.

- kelson h

The bitterness of poor quality lasts long after the sweetness of the low price is forgotten . . . life is too short to drink bad wine

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post #9 of 20 Old 02-24-2013, 09:31 AM - Thread Starter
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scoosdad - Thank you for the very informative post - solves all doubts i had regarding the hd pvr. Thanks again!
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post #10 of 20 Old 03-01-2013, 04:39 PM
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Check out the new Video Filter website at http://videofilter.net
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post #11 of 20 Old 03-03-2013, 09:43 AM
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Anyone have a list of what channels are not copy protected so we can use the HDMI inputs of the HD PVR 2? How about OTA tuners? Those channels should look astounding since we are talking about uncompressed signals. We know from the website that the Gamer Edition can also cap from the analog component inputs but I'm guessing that's not what many of us want to do with these devices... biggrin.gif
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post #12 of 20 Old 03-03-2013, 10:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug O View Post

Anyone have a list of what channels are not copy protected so we can use the HDMI inputs of the HD PVR 2? How about OTA tuners? Those channels should look astounding since we are talking about uncompressed signals. We know from the website that the Gamer Edition can also cap from the analog component inputs but I'm guessing that's not what many of us want to do with these devices... biggrin.gif
No. The copy once and otherwise protected shows vary by CATV provider. At least here in the USA OTA is still copy freely.


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post #13 of 20 Old 03-03-2013, 09:47 PM
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Ditto in Canada on OTA. Alas I'm not in a major center so I'm limited to 3 OTA channels, one being an educational program channel well past it's heyday. The Hauppage rep on Amazon made a reply to my query but seems to have encryption and copy protection mixed up. He does state that the Gamer 2 can record programs that are not copy protected through the HDMI but that there are few sources in the US and would vary by provider, either cable or satellite. Problem is, I've never seen such a list. I just blew $200 a couple months back for the 1212. I'm not about to blow another $150 so I can get 1080p instead of 1080i from component and still be unable to record anything from the HDMI. Still seeking other options as most of us are...
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post #14 of 20 Old 03-04-2013, 03:16 PM
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Doug O,

I just looked at this Gamer 2 HDMI to components adapter. Once you go to analog Components, if you want to change the state of the CGMS flag, check out the Video Filter.
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post #15 of 20 Old 03-04-2013, 04:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug O View Post

How about OTA tuners? Those channels should look astounding since we are talking about uncompressed signals.

OTA signals are far from uncompressed. OTA signals are around 18 Mbps with lossy MPEG-2 compression. Uncompressed 1920 x 1080 is around 1.49 Gbps, that’s gigabits with a “G”. If you’re watching a HD channel movie that originated on 35mm film ands it’s been recently mastered on HD it’s probably been mastered on compressed MPEG-4 at 880 Mbps or higher – my point is that OTA MPEG-2 @ 18 Mbps is far from uncompressed.
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post #16 of 20 Old 03-05-2013, 11:44 AM
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– my point is that OTA MPEG-2 @ 18 Mbps is far from uncompressed.

What about those 9 Mbps "HD" channels (ABC I guess)? Were those in OTA or in cable?
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post #17 of 20 Old 03-05-2013, 02:31 PM
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9mbps, I could only wish! My local ABC channel puts out ~5Mbps for there HD eek.gif A 1hr HD program could easily fit on a SL DVD and believe me the quality looks like you'd think frown.gif
Compare that to my local (sub channel free) CBS channel that looks very HD. Luckily I watch very little on ABC and most of my viewing is on CBS. NBC has 1 wx sub and looks a second best. Don't watch a whole lot of FOX and only rarely Ion, the CW looks quite good in 1080i with 1 simulcast SD channel.
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post #18 of 20 Old 03-05-2013, 02:34 PM
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Originally Posted by profhat View Post

What about those 9 Mbps "HD" channels (ABC I guess)? Were those in OTA or in cable?

Yep, you’re right – there are OTA HD channels that are even more compressed than 18 Mbps. I should have written the OTA 18 Mbps signal is the maximum quality you get “IF” the broadcasters are using all the allocated space without cramming it with sub-channels.

BTW my uncompressed 1.49 Gbps for 1920 by 1080 is for digital component video with 4:4:4 colour space running at 60i or 30p.
1920x1080 video using a 60p frame rate would run at a whopping 3 Gbps. (1280 by 720 uses less than 1920 by 1080)

I should say that a lot of the bits are thrown away even pre-compression.
Broadcast, Cable and Satellite feeds (for consumer use) and Blu-Ray and DVD use 4:2:0 component. Meaning only the luminance is sampled in full resolution. But any network drama or hi-end sit-com and every movie is mastered in full 4:4:4 meaning even the chrominance uses full resolution (4:4:4: sampling)

OTA signals are far, far from uncompressed. They are very heavily compressed in fact.
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post #19 of 20 Old 03-05-2013, 03:43 PM
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Originally Posted by jjeff View Post

9mbps, I could only wish! My local ABC channel puts out ~5Mbps for there HD eek.gif A 1hr HD program could easily fit on a SL DVD and believe me the quality looks like you'd think frown.gif
Compare that to my local (sub channel free) CBS channel that looks very HD. Luckily I watch very little on ABC and most of my viewing is on CBS. NBC has 1 wx sub and looks a second best. Don't watch a whole lot of FOX and only rarely Ion, the CW looks quite good in 1080i with 1 simulcast SD channel.
My ABC uses 8Mbps each for two HD channels. ABC-1 is the main ABC channel and ABC-2 is the LiveWell channel. There is absolutely nothing of interest on ABC-2. Like most subchannels it is a waste of bandwidth. Don't forget ABC is only 720p so 8Mbps doesn't look as bad as it would if it were 1080i.

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post #20 of 20 Old 03-05-2013, 07:26 PM
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Actually according to Rabbitears my local ABC also averages 8Mbps, the rest goes to 1 SD channel and 7Mbps goes to a mostly useless MDTV service rolleyes.gif
I know what your saying about 720p looking OK with less bitrate than 1080i but not 1/2 the bitrate frown.gif
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