Copying protected material from HDD on Pioneer 640/650 - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 35 Old 09-16-2013, 05:58 PM - Thread Starter
 
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This was likely covered quite some time ago but I only recently have experienced this problem, since my cable provided recently started copy protecting basically ALL cable channels in my area (Time Warner in NYC).

It appears as if they are encrypting most (if not all) cable channels (even the basic ones, such as FX)!
It seems senseless to me but I'm sure that they have their agenda.
I have been unable to copy these shows from the HDD to standard DVD-R discs or even DVD-RW discs (with the RW discs I tried initializing in both "VR" and "Video" modes).
The Pioneer generates messages and restricts me from archiving these recordings to these type of discs.
The ONLY type of media that will work with these recordings is DVD-RAM.
These discs are far too expensive and hard to find. In addition, the time required to copy to RAM is much longer.
Do I have any other options with these shows (that were already recorded onto the HDD)?
Is there any way to make a high speed digital recording of these "flagged" shows, using other types of media (other than RAM)?
The unit specifies that they are "copy once" recordings.
Why is it necessary for me to use only RAM for this purpose?

Thank you for any help that you can offer with this problem!
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post #2 of 35 Old 09-16-2013, 07:48 PM
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One way to solve this, is to change the copy once flag to copy always. The videofilter can do this. Check www.videofilter.net
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post #3 of 35 Old 09-16-2013, 08:52 PM
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Originally Posted by slprp1 View Post

The unit specifies that they are "copy once" recordings.
Why is it necessary for me to use only RAM for this purpose?
The "copy once" flag means that only a single copy of the source may exist at any time. DVD RAM supports a copy protection scheme for recorded media called CPRM. If you put a DVD RAM in your Pioneer it will not "copy" the recording from the HDD to the RAM, it will transfer the recording from the HDD to the RAM. IOW it will burn the recording to the RAM disk then delete it from the HDD of your Pioneer. There will still be a single copy of the title, but now it exists only on your RAM disk. And that RAM disk is not in DVD Video format and will play on scant few players other than the Pioneer it was made on.

As Logic Design indicated, the way to defeat this is to use a filter box, like the Video Filter, between the output of your STB and the input of your DVDR. If you are recording analog source directly from the cable using the tuner of the DVDR, you are stuck. The Pioneer will honor the copy flags and there is nothing you can do. There is also nothing you can do to remove the protection from the recordings on your HDD that already have it. The DVDR will only transfer them to RAM.

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post #4 of 35 Old 09-17-2013, 12:13 AM
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Originally Posted by slprp1 View Post

...my cable provided recently started copy protecting basically ALL cable channels in my area (Time Warner in NYC).

It seems senseless to me but I'm sure that they have their agenda.
Oh, they have their agenda all right. Mostly, it has to do with $ and getting everyone to have to rent an STB from them, or even better a DVR of some kind. Inconveniencing you isn't even a blip on their radar. They have MUCH bigger fish to fry.
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I have been unable to copy these shows from the HDD to standard DVD-R discs or even DVD-RW discs (with the RW discs I tried initializing in both "VR" and "Video" modes).
The Pioneer generates messages and restricts me from archiving these recordings to these type of discs.
The ONLY type of media that will work with these recordings is DVD-RAM.
These discs are far too expensive and hard to find. In addition, the time required to copy to RAM is much longer.
Do I have any other options with these shows (that were already recorded onto the HDD)?

For programs that have already been recorded, you are stuck. You can, as Kelson said, TRANSFER them to -RAM disks, but as far as I know, you will not get them to -R disks unless you do as Logic Design said and realtime copy them using an in-line video filter to remove the copy protection. Yes, I said REALTIME. If you think that copying to -RAM is time consuming, this will be much more. I don't know of any other way, but I'll bet someone with a PC has figured out how to load it digitally from the -RAM disk to the computer and using some piece of software, clear that copy once flag.
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Is there any way to make a high speed digital recording of these "flagged" shows, using other types of media (other than RAM)?
The unit specifies that they are "copy once" recordings.
Why is it necessary for me to use only RAM for this purpose?

Thank you for any help that you can offer with this problem!

Ram disks are compliant with the copy once flag, so they can be used, but in the process, the copy on your hard drive will be erased, like Kelson said. I *THINK* another media is also compliant, like +RW or something, but don't quote me on it. In any case, you'll be on the same position with a copy on the removable media, and the one of the HDD deleted.

What you are describing is the intent of the copy once flag. Sorry, but that's just the way it is. frown.gif

Luke

Evil is charming and beautiful. It makes you doubt yourself. It asks for one small compromise after another until it whittles you down, and it functions best when no one believes in it.-JOA
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post #5 of 35 Old 09-17-2013, 10:14 AM
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Run a cable from the outputs of your Pio to the Video Filter, then connect it to the inputs of the Pio.
Press record, then start playing the Copy Once tittle.
Finally burn it, from the HDD to any R or RW disc.
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post #6 of 35 Old 09-17-2013, 01:45 PM
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Originally Posted by slprp1 View Post

This was likely covered quite some time ago but I only recently have experienced this problem, since my cable provided recently started copy protecting basically ALL cable channels in my area (Time Warner in NYC).

I have several Pioneers (DVR-540, 560 and 450), none of which are giving me this issue using Time Warner Cable in Brooklyn or Queens, NYC. I'm not seeing any restrictions on any channel, when recording the line output from either the Scientific Atlanta 4250 or Samsung 3262 decoder boxes. So far, none of my friends or family with other recorders (Magnavox, Panasonic, Toshiba) are encountering this.

Are you a recent arrival to NYC with a new-ish TWC installation? You might have gotten faulty setup from the head end.

Are you recording from the bare cable wire (tuning channels with the tuner in your Pioneer), recording from one of their newly-required crummy "pod' boxes, recording from a standard decoder box, or recording from a PVR version of the decoder box? Which brand and model of box?

Recording from the bare wire has become a trainwreck all over the country on every cable system. "Boxless" cable is pretty much worthless now for most recorders. If you don't have a standard-sized box, you might need to get one. If you already have one, it may need to be remotely cleared and reactivated by the office. If your box has the PVR feature built in, it uses different software, and might now be programmed to block external recording.

Worst case scenario would be TWC is rolling out a blanket block on external recording, region by region, and it just hasn't reached the neighborhoods of myself, friends or family yet (maybe its localized to Manhattan). If this proves to be an intentional, planned issue by TWC, the only way around it is to connect a video filter of some kind between the line outputs of your box and the line inputs of your (our?) Pioneers. There are several options at different price points, the best being the Logic Design Video Filter mentioned above, followed by the AVT8710 TBC, followed by more affordable filters like the Grex.

If you obtain one of these filter devices, it will solve such problems going forward. But you still have the dilemma of how to get the existing contaminated recordings off your Pioneer hard drive to a standard DVD-R. The workaround would be to borrow a second DVD recorder (or use your PC as a recorder if it has analog video inputs). Connect a filter between your Pioneer and the second recorder, and manually play the blocked videos from your Pioneer into the second recorder. This is tedious, and reduces video quality somewhat because its a 2nd gen re-encoded copy, so you really only want to do this if the recordings cannot be replaced any other way. If these are ordinary TV series, i.e. "Sons Of Anarchy" on FX, you can use the TWC free "re-run" channels (1010, 1012, 1015) to call up back episodes and play them again in original quality from the decoder box thru a filter and into your Pioneer.
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post #7 of 35 Old 09-17-2013, 02:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by profhat View Post

Run a cable from the outputs of your Pio to the Video Filter, then connect it to the inputs of the Pio.
Press record, then start playing the Copy Once tittle.
Finally burn it, from the HDD to any R or RW disc.
That sounds like a good idea if it will work, wouldn't require a second DVD Recorder smile.gif
I've never attempted it but don't see why it wouldn't work, and using S-video one shouldn't lose too much picture quality by the reencode.
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post #8 of 35 Old 09-17-2013, 04:27 PM
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I *THINK* another media is also compliant, like +RW or something, but don't quote me on it. In any case, you'll be on the same position with a copy on the removable media, and the one of the HDD deleted.
"+" media is not CPRM compliant.
DVD-RW is CPRM compliant but the recorder has to support CPRM on DVD-RW media. From memory of days past, if the recorder supports RAM it won't support CPRM on DVD-RW.

- kelson h

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post #9 of 35 Old 09-17-2013, 04:31 PM
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Originally Posted by profhat View Post

Run a cable from the outputs of your Pio to the Video Filter, then connect it to the inputs of the Pio.
Press record, then start playing the Copy Once tittle.
Finally burn it, from the HDD to any R or RW disc.
Isn't that digital incest? eek.gif

- kelson h

The bitterness of poor quality lasts long after the sweetness of the low price is forgotten . . . life is too short to drink bad wine

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post #10 of 35 Old 09-17-2013, 05:21 PM
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Originally Posted by profhat View Post

Run a cable from the outputs of your Pio to the Video Filter, then connect it to the inputs of the Pio.
Press record, then start playing the Copy Once tittle.
Finally burn it, from the HDD to any R or RW disc.

It occurred to me a few minutes ago that this could be one of those "so crazy it just might work" ideas, so I tried it. wink.gif

As most of us suspected, of course, it doesn't work. tongue.gif

Interestingly, I discovered my Pioneer 450 doesn't outright forbid recording its own HDD line output to its DVD burner: if I wire its output to its input, begin playing a title on the HDD, switch to the DVD burner and hit record, it does in fact record its own output.

But the recorded signal goes completely haywire almost immediately, becoming a jumbled mess of colors eventually overlaid entirely by white noise bars: totally unusable and unwatchable.

So you'll definitely need a separate second recorder or PC to patch the Pioneer HDD output into thru a video filter, if you want to offload "copy-once" infested HDD videos to a standard DVD.
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post #11 of 35 Old 09-17-2013, 05:25 PM
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I rest my case.wink.gif

- kelson h

The bitterness of poor quality lasts long after the sweetness of the low price is forgotten . . . life is too short to drink bad wine

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post #12 of 35 Old 09-17-2013, 05:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Kelson View Post

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Originally Posted by Church AV Guy View Post

I *THINK* another media is also compliant, like +RW or something, but don't quote me on it. In any case, you'll be on the same position with a copy on the removable media, and the one of the HDD deleted.
"+" media is not CPRM compliant.
DVD-RW is CPRM compliant but the recorder has to support CPRM on DVD-RW media. From memory of days past, if the recorder supports RAM it won't support CPRM on DVD-RW.

Oh yeah, I remember now. It has been a while since this was discussed here, and since I don't have or use RW disks of any sort, I just forgot about it.

Luke

Evil is charming and beautiful. It makes you doubt yourself. It asks for one small compromise after another until it whittles you down, and it functions best when no one believes in it.-JOA
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post #13 of 35 Old 09-18-2013, 05:06 PM
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Originally Posted by CitiBear View Post

It occurred to me a few minutes ago that this could be one of those "so crazy it just might work" ideas, so I tried it. wink.gif

As most of us suspected, of course, it doesn't work. tongue.gif

LOL it worked very well with my 2160A. tongue.gif I guess he will need to spend more $$$.
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post #14 of 35 Old 09-18-2013, 05:26 PM
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Originally Posted by CitiBear View Post

Interestingly, I discovered my Pioneer 450 doesn't outright forbid recording its own HDD line output to its DVD burner: if I wire its output to its input, begin playing a title on the HDD, switch to the DVD burner and hit record, it does in fact record its own output.
Did you try recording to the HDD instead of DVD? I'm pretty I can do that on my Panasonics but only to the HDD, it doesn't like to do separate things with the HDD and DVD drive.
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post #15 of 35 Old 09-19-2013, 11:02 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Thanks for the response, CitiBear......and to ALL OF YOU who were nice enough to respond!

Perhaps the earlier generation Pioneers (and others) are designed differently and are unaffected by the Time Warner "flagging".
I have been having this copy protection issue (on a Pioneer 650) since approx. two years ago but it was expanded earlier this year to most (if not all) cable channels.
I also know three people (in Queens) that are having the exact same issue with TWC "flagging" (on Pioneer and Toshiba units).

I am aware of the fact that I can use a filter to prevent this problem initially. I was curious as to whether or not there was an option to copy from the HDD (digitally) once the recordings were made.
It seems as if the consensus is no (unfortunately). Someone made a comment about removing the copy protection (from the RAM disc) on a PC. Perhaps this is a option.
If anyone knows more specific information regarding this, please post it here.

I believe that if I were to do a real time, analog copy on the Pioneer, it would work. I've been avoiding this, as the video quality will suffer. However, this may be my only option. I haven't tested this yet.

Any further suggestions?.....please post them here.
Thanks again to everyone!
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post #16 of 35 Old 09-20-2013, 12:02 AM
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Someone made a comment about removing the copy protection (from the RAM disc) on a PC. Perhaps this is a option.

I said that as a speculation. The software guys are really ingenious about that kind of thing, and I'm sure SOMEONE, SOMEWHERE has done it, but I certainly don't know where such a program resides. Sorry. frown.gif

If you get/have a good quality filter, the quality hit is minimal when making a dub. There will a be a hit though. The real issue, given what you said in the original post was time, and that will be a real time process, hours and hours of it. Again... frown.gif

Luke

Evil is charming and beautiful. It makes you doubt yourself. It asks for one small compromise after another until it whittles you down, and it functions best when no one believes in it.-JOA
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post #17 of 35 Old 09-20-2013, 06:34 AM
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And of course with a realtime copy any custom chapter marks will be lost as well...
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post #18 of 35 Old 09-20-2013, 07:27 AM
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Originally Posted by slprp1 View Post

Someone made a comment about removing the copy protection (from the RAM disc) on a PC. Perhaps this is a option. If anyone knows more specific information regarding this, please post it here.
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I said that as a speculation. The software guys are really ingenious about that kind of thing, and I'm sure SOMEONE, SOMEWHERE has done it, but I certainly don't know where such a program resides.
I also was never aware of such an application to crack the CPRM on a RAM, and I have plenty of experience with decryption programs. Although the software guys are good, CPRM on a RAM was such a minor, minor affair that I don't know that anyone would have bothered. People attacked the copy protection issue with external filter boxes and largely ignored RAM. And of course the format on a RAM is -VR and not DVD Video which further lessened RAM's overall appeal -- very few players of the time would play RAMs. I only used RAM to transfer recordings from DVDR to PC and never for permanent storage -- if I had they would be unplayable except in modern PC burners. All my old players that played RAM have long since bit the dust. Only my LG BD burners support RAM and I think Video ReDo will support -VR mode recordings.

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post #19 of 35 Old 09-20-2013, 01:54 PM
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Perhaps the earlier generation Pioneers (and others) are designed differently and are unaffected by the Time Warner "flagging".

No, they're all the same OS. My DVR-450 is the same model year as your 650, and I'm not having any recording problems with TWC. I also have a 460, which is one year newer than your 650, and I have a 540 and 531 which are one and two years older than your 650. Plus a couple of Magnavoxes (until I sold them last month) that were far newer than any Pioneer. None had any issues recording to HDD/making DVDs from TWC in the Brooklyn or Queens neighborhoods I'm familiar with (including premium channels). So it appears this "copy once" flag issue is localized to just certain NYC neighborhoods, or there is something specific about your personal connection that is giving you issues.

Quote:
I have been having this copy protection issue (on a Pioneer 650) since approx. two years ago but it was expanded earlier this year to most (if not all) cable channels. I also know three people (in Queens) that are having the exact same issue with TWC "flagging" (on Pioneer and Toshiba units).

I live on the Brooklyn/Queens border, and have never encountered this problem. My friends & relatives in Forest Hills, Middle Village, Astoria, and Bayside (Queens) don't encounter it, neither do people I know in Cobble Hill, East Flatbush, Midwood, Bay Ridge or Greenpoint (Brooklyn).

It is not uncommon to hear of record-restrict issues with TWC, but almost always the entire town or city is affected. It is extremely odd to see it localized in just a few neighborhoods, as it seems to be for you and your friends. Either some idiot at the TWC head end did something stupid that accidentally activated this protection in your neighborhoods' feed alone, or the specific versions of decoder box involved have a bug or have had their firmware corrupted by an update. There isn't much you can do in either case, as all the boxes for your area will be the same, and a complaint to customer service that you can't use your DVD recorder will be met with stony silence or laughter.

You haven't yet confirmed whether you use a decoder box or have the cable plugged directly into your Pioneer. There can be an enormous difference: like all other cablecos, TWC began messing with the bare-wire signals a couple of years ago. Those who have the wire plugged directly into their recorder discovered channels would disappear one by one or be flagged with this "copy-once" protection. Then recently, TWC migrated to "100% digital" service, even for the basic tier, which requires either a full-sized decoder box or one of their new small stop-gap junk decoder pods. A few channels might still be tunable directly by your recorder tuner, but this could change at any moment.

If you don't currently have a full-size decoder box, it may be that the box itself filters out the "copy-once" signal for those of us who are not having such problems. You would need to either sign up for a box, or bring your Pioneer 650 over to someone's house that does have one, and see if you can record as usual (with no flag) from the box. If so, thats your answer: just about all cable systems are moving to a box requirement of some kind, if you refuse to have one you will encounter various inconveniences like missing or unrecordable channels. It stinks, but the govt is allowing it.

If you DO have a full-sized box, connected to the line inputs of your Pioneer 650, the copy-once signal is not being suppressed by the box and your only option is to buy and permanently connect a video filter between decoder and Pioneer (as discussed in earlier posts).

Quote:
I am aware of the fact that I can use a filter to prevent this problem initially. I was curious as to whether or not there was an option to copy from the HDD (digitally) once the recordings were made.It seems as if the consensus is no (unfortunately). Someone made a comment about removing the copy protection (from the RAM disc) on a PC.

No such decryption method using a PC has turned up that I'm aware of. If ChurchAVGuy, jjeff and Kelson have not heard of one either, you can be fairly sure it doesn't exist or is flying way under our radar. I think the reason we haven't heard about it is it wouldn't be useful to that many people: basically, once someone discovers their cable or satellite service is using this copy-once flag, they just go buy a filter and cut the problem off ahead of recording. Once the flag is embedded in the HDD recordings, its already too late to digitally circumvent in any useful manner. The recorder will insist on creating a goofball VR non-standard DVD or RAM disc that isn't compatible with standard playback hardware, and nobody's really interested in trying to decrypt those (you'd still end up with some goofball VRO format, which you'd then have to convert somehow to standard files).

Quote:
I believe that if I were to do a real time, analog copy on the Pioneer, it would work. I've been avoiding this, as the video quality will suffer. However, this may be my only option. I haven't tested this yet.

I don't think it would work, as the Pioneer should still refuse unless a CPRM-compliant VR (i.e., unplayable on anything but your 650) blank disc is loaded. But its worth a shot: why don't you give it a try and let us know? I'd test it myself, but I don't have any copy-once recordings to experiment with. Be sure to try it using both possible methods: via the copy list screen (select a lower recording speed for the dub to force it into analog real time mode), and via the one-touch copy system (load a blank dvd, play the HDD recording, then hit the one-touch-copy button).

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Originally Posted by jjeff View Post

Did you try recording to the HDD instead of DVD? I'm pretty I can do that on my Panasonics but only to the HDD, it doesn't like to do separate things with the HDD and DVD drive.

Yes, I tried feeding my Pioneer 450 line output to its line input, and recording a title playing on the HDD back to the HDD as a new title. The result is a black screen recording. So one would definitely not be able to patch a video filter between a Pioneers inputs and outputs to re-record something to itself (DVD or HDD). You'd need a second recorder or PC to capture the analog output of the Pioneer HDD thru a filter.

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LOL it worked very well with my 2160A. tongue.gif I guess he will need to spend more $$$.

Nice to discover SOMETHING useful about the Magnavox, other than its amazingly rugged burner. wink.gif
My 2160A and 513 had tuners that were worthless for cable and confused by the goofy virtual channel assignments used by NYC ota broadcasters. So I found new homes for them not long ago.

slprp1, if you don't have another dvd recorder or PC to dub your Pioneer videos to thru a filter, you might consider buying a Magnavox MDR533 from WalMart. It is a DVD/HDD recorder similar to your Pio 650, but costs only $229 new. You could set up a playlist on your Pioneer of all the backed up recordings on its HDD, and dub them unattended to the HDD of the Magnavox. Then, at your leisure, divide up the recordings on the Magnavox and make your normal DVDs using high speed copy. The Magnavox will let you put in custom chapter stops and thumbnails, but note the thumbnails can only be selected during the finalization stage (not beforehand on the HDD as the Pioneers can do). When you finish clearing off your Pioneer, you can resell the Magnavox on eBay without much of a loss (they're quite a cult item). Or if you finish up within 30 days, you could probably just return it to WalMart for a refund. Or keep it as a spare recorder.
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post #20 of 35 Old 09-20-2013, 03:12 PM
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Someone made a comment about removing the copy protection (from the RAM disc) on a PC. Perhaps this is a option. If anyone knows more specific information regarding this, please post it here.
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Originally Posted by Church AV Guy View Post

I said that as a speculation. The software guys are really ingenious about that kind of thing, and I'm sure SOMEONE, SOMEWHERE has done it, but I certainly don't know where such a program resides.
I also was never aware of such an application to crack the CPRM on a RAM, and I have plenty of experience with decryption programs. Although the software guys are good, CPRM on a RAM was such a minor, minor affair that I don't know that anyone would have bothered. People attacked the copy protection issue with external filter boxes and largely ignored RAM. And of course the format on a RAM is -VR and not DVD Video which further lessened RAM's overall appeal -- very few players of the time would play RAMs. I only used RAM to transfer recordings from DVDR to PC and never for permanent storage -- if I had they would be unplayable except in modern PC burners. All my old players that played RAM have long since bit the dust. Only my LG BD burners support RAM and I think Video ReDo will support -VR mode recordings.

Okay, what I was thinking was, there were a series of posts some time ago where SOMEONE said that they could alter the WS flag on their recordings, after the fact, on their PC, using some software. I figured if that were possible, then changing the copy once flag also might be possible. It was idle speculation, musing, just a thought. When I was working in data-analysis at work, occasionally someone would ask for some odd ball thing and I wrote a quick program that did the task, filing though enormous data files looking for an odd thing or two to extract or change. It's possible that someone has done this, but not formalized it. Since I brought it up, and no one has come forward, I assume no one here has done it. This would HAVE to be easier than the Panasonic HDD recovery software that has been developed by forum members.

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Evil is charming and beautiful. It makes you doubt yourself. It asks for one small compromise after another until it whittles you down, and it functions best when no one believes in it.-JOA
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post #21 of 35 Old 09-20-2013, 04:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Church AV Guy View Post

Okay, what I was thinking was, there were a series of posts some time ago where SOMEONE said that they could alter the WS flag on their recordings, after the fact, on their PC, using some software. I figured if that were possible, then changing the copy once flag also might be possible.

You were thinking of dvd utilities like pgcEdit, which I use to change the flags on some of my Pioneer-created DVDs. Unlike Panasonics, which create familiar "automated" DVDs, Pioneers create somewhat unusual "manual" DVDs: they don't embed a widescreen flag, and the disc menu does not load automatically. You need to hit the menu button on the player remote before you can see the title menu, and 16:9 recordings have to be manually stretched with the TV remote to unsqueeze them. With pgcEdit, I just copy over the VIDEO_TS folder from the dvd, change the flags, and burn an updated DVD with the added auto-load menu and 16:9 auto-unsqueeze flags..

Unfortunately pgcEdit does not seem to recognize either of the two Pioneer-recorded RAM discs I had on hand, which I just tried loading upon your suggestion. Perhaps a different utility would recognize them and permit a copy-once to copy-always flag change?
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post #22 of 35 Old 09-20-2013, 04:56 PM
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Problem is, in order to do anything you have to get the video off the HDD first. That means onto RAM which is not DVD Video format and if CPRM is in play then the encryption has already been applied and the copy-once flag is meaningless. You can't win here once the damage is done.

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post #23 of 35 Old 09-20-2013, 05:56 PM
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I don't have any copy once material but when I took a RAM disc I had with material on it and put it in my RAM compatible PC drive and tried to open it with Shrink I recieved the following error:
DVD Shrink encountered an error and cannot continue.
Failed to open file E:\VIDEO_TS.IFO
The system cannot find the file specified.

I thought maybe Shrink could remove the flag but it's a no go.
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post #24 of 35 Old 09-20-2013, 07:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjeff View Post

I don't have any copy once material but when I took a RAM disc I had with material on it and put it in my RAM compatible PC drive and tried to open it with Shrink I recieved the following error:
DVD Shrink encountered an error and cannot continue.
Failed to open file E:\VIDEO_TS.IFO
The system cannot find the file specified.

I thought maybe Shrink could remove the flag but it's a no go.
Its not in DVD Video format. It is -VR with a single .VRO file.

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post #25 of 35 Old 09-20-2013, 07:57 PM - Thread Starter
 
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CitiBear.....
I apologize for not mentioning this previously but I'm using a Cisco HD box - Model #4640HDC. S-video to the Pioneer 650.
It's really bizarre that you've had no issues (as well as others that you mentioned) with "flagging"! I have two friends in Forest Hills that have the same issue. One is using a Pioneer 640 and the other a Toshiba combo unit (approx. two years old). Another friend uses Windows media center on his PC and has a similar issue (using a cable card as opposed to a STB).
Most people are using DVR's. There are very few people to use as a reference point, so I'm glad that I started this discussion.....but it's so strange that you are not having this problem!
Although with TWC, anything is possible...... it's hard to digest the theory that they're targeting certain neighborhoods for this "flagging".
BTW, my friend with the Pioneer 640 recently purchased a filter of some sort (unsure of the details). He was able to defeat the copy protection by connecting it between the cable box (same as mine) and the Pioneer. Further proof that it certainly exists in Forest Hills with TWC.

Thanks again (to all) for the interest and concern......I sincerely appreciate it!
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post #26 of 35 Old 09-20-2013, 10:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slprp1 View Post

I'm using a Cisco HD box - Model #4640HDC. S-video to the Pioneer 650.

OK, the fact that you (and perhaps your friends?) are running off a Cisco decoder box is interesting. I have not seen TWC use these in Brooklyn or Queens: everyone I know has either a Scientific Atlanta or Samsung box. The Cisco boxes are known for all sorts of issues on other cable systems, so its quite possible they are contributing to your flag problem. I suppose you could double check with your friends and ask if they all have the same Cisco box as you: if one of them has a Scientific Atlanta or Samsung instead, but still gets the flag, then its in the local distribution node and not the decoder boxes.

Quote:
It's really bizarre that you've had no issues (as well as others that you mentioned) with "flagging"! I have two friends in Forest Hills that have the same issue. One is using a Pioneer 640 and the other a Toshiba combo unit (approx. two years old). Another friend uses Windows media center on his PC and has a similar issue (using a cable card as opposed to a STB).

Neighborhoods like Forest Hills consist primarily of large apartment complexes, which tend to have their own exclusive kickback deals and singular installations from TWC. The flag could be coming from the dedicated apt building line drops and networks, which my friends in the same area are not getting because they live in rowhouses with independent connections. I'll tell you, though, since I began talking to them about this thread they all bookmarked where to buy a filter immediately if this plague spreads to their blocks. Really unfortunate that TWC is doing this, hopefully it won't spread too quickly.

Sorry we couldn't come up with a quick-fix for the videos trapped in your Pioneer 650, slprp1. frown.gifconfused.gif
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post #27 of 35 Old 09-21-2013, 01:40 AM
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What kind of cable box is causing the problem? Is it the new CISCO4742 HDC?

I remember when products were built to last.
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post #28 of 35 Old 09-22-2013, 08:50 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Supposedly, Cisco took over Scientific Atlanta and the only difference is the name plate.
I know someone with a Samsung box (model #SMT-H3260) and it's producing the same exact problem (also in Forest Hills).
The Samsung box has no S-Video output and only one audio output.....which can be incompatible in certain installations.
This Cisco box appears to have been the last Cisco/Scientific Atlanta box available from TWC (certainly in Queens).
It seems (beyond a certain point) that the Samsung is the only option that they offer (for a non-DVR box).
The "flagging" appears to be a software issue.

Thanks again to all for your input!
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post #29 of 35 Old 09-22-2013, 10:09 PM
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I have two boxes, non-dvr. A CISCO4742 HDC and a SCIENTIFIC ATLANTA 4250 HDC. The cisco is flagging palladia and other channels. The scientific atlanta is ok. No flagging at all.

I remember when products were built to last.
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post #30 of 35 Old 09-23-2013, 12:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slprp1 View Post

...The "flagging" appears to be a software issue.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MediaFan63 View Post

I have two boxes, non-dvr. A CISCO4742 HDC and a SCIENTIFIC ATLANTA 4250 HDC. The cisco is flagging palladia and other channels. The scientific atlanta is ok. No flagging at all.

I agree that it's a software issue, instigated by TWC. What I find very interesting is that some boxes have not been programmed to assert the flag (yet) or are unable to do so. It will be interesting to see if they eventually get the SCIENTIFIC ATLANTA box to assert the flag, or if they make some excuse to replace all of them with "compliant" boxes, of if they just ignore the problem.

Luke

Evil is charming and beautiful. It makes you doubt yourself. It asks for one small compromise after another until it whittles you down, and it functions best when no one believes in it.-JOA
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