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post #31 of 42 Old 06-23-2014, 09:23 AM
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Originally Posted by larryccf View Post
will the ceton or silicon dust cable card setups allow recording direct to blu-ray?
sorry if the question is too elementary
No, not direct to BluRay -- assuming you mean directly burning a disk.

You use WMC to do the recording to the HDD first. If the file is copy-protected -- a.k.a. record-once -- the bus stops there. You can only play that recording on the HTPC you recorded it on or an extender to that HTPC. Such are the freedoms bestowed by cable-labs DRM requirements.

If it is not copy-protected, you buy VideoReDo H.264 to edit the WMC file, removing the commercials, and save it as a BD native .m2ts file. The native encoding is MPEG-2, VRD gives you the ability to recode to H.264 and reduce file size by about 30% with minimal PQ loss (you probably won't see it). You can then use ImgBurn to burn the .m2ts files to a BD-R and generate a simple file list menu which is more than adequate for most people. If you want fancy BD menus you have to buy an additional BD authoring tool -- or learn to use MultiAVCHD which is not trivial. CBS recordings have the highest bitrate and generate the largest files. After removing commercials and recoding to H.264 I can fit 6-7 1hr CBS HDTV episodes on a single BD-R. At the other end is ABC with their super-low bitrate 720p garbage -- after editing, a 1hr ABC show is ~2GB. I can fit 12 on a single BD-R and if I recoded to H.264 it goes up to about 17 1hr episodes on a BD-R. ABC is pitiful.

If you are still in love with SD on DVD-R, VRD gives you the ability to recode to 480i and will author/burn a DVD (with fancy menus) for you all in the one program.

There you have it, in a nutshell.

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post #32 of 42 Old 06-23-2014, 09:28 AM
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Originally Posted by CitiBear View Post
The HDfury becomes more attractive if you're interested in recording game sessions from Xbox or PlayStation in addition to the output of your cable box: at least then it serves two purposes, justifying the expense.
I think not even then. Most gamers who record their gameplay for posting to forums do so by direct HDMI input to a PC using a Hauppauge or something similar. XBox and PlayStation HDMI output of gameplay specifically does not have HDCP protection to enable gamers to record it. I believe that may be the only type of HDMI output that omits HDCP.

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post #33 of 42 Old 06-23-2014, 11:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelson View Post
No, not direct to BluRay -- assuming you mean directly burning a disk.

You use WMC to do the recording to the HDD first. If the file is copy-protected -- a.k.a. record-once -- the bus stops there. You can only play that recording on the HTPC you recorded it on or an extender to that HTPC. Such are the freedoms bestowed by cable-labs DRM requirements.

If it is not copy-protected, you buy VideoReDo H.264 to edit the WMC file, removing the commercials, and save it as a BD native .m2ts file. The native encoding is MPEG-2, VRD gives you the ability to recode to H.264 and reduce file size by about 30% with minimal PQ loss (you probably won't see it). You can then use ImgBurn to burn the .m2ts files to a BD-R and generate a simple file list menu which is more than adequate for most people. If you want fancy BD menus you have to buy an additional BD authoring tool -- or learn to use MultiAVCHD which is not trivial. CBS recordings have the highest bitrate and generate the largest files. After removing commercials and recoding to H.264 I can fit 6-7 1hr CBS HDTV episodes on a single BD-R. At the other end is ABC with their super-low bitrate 720p garbage -- after editing, a 1hr ABC show is ~2GB. I can fit 12 on a single BD-R and if I recoded to H.264 it goes up to about 17 1hr episodes on a BD-R. ABC is pitiful.

If you are still in love with SD on DVD-R, VRD gives you the ability to recode to 480i and will author/burn a DVD (with fancy menus) for you all in the one program.

There you have it, in a nutshell.
If the channel is copy freely or copy once (as most on Charter and Verizon are), then you can record with some other package besides WMC if you want. You can also convert wtv files to m2ts just by right-clicking (this conversion is built-in to Windows).

I really don't see the need to save any recorded TV to optical media myself. The last DVDs I made were for archiving and sharing home movies. Everything else I just stream directly from my PC. As long as I have an internet connection, it works fine.
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post #34 of 42 Old 06-23-2014, 12:07 PM
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Originally Posted by mdavej View Post
If the channel is copy freely or copy once (as most on Charter and Verizon are), then you can record with some other package besides WMC if you want. You can also convert wtv files to m2ts just by right-clicking (this conversion is built-in to Windows).
OK, I don't have cable myself but I'm pretty sure that you have to use WMC with a cable-card tuner. All the other DVR packages I know of and have played with will support clear QAM recording (which FIOS has) but not cable card tuners because they lack the DRM support and therefore Cable-Labs certification. Cable-card tuners only do cable-card and not OTA or clear QAM.

I'm completely unaware of that .wtv --> .m2ts conversion you speak of by right-clicking. It's the first I've heard of it -- I'll have to try it. Is this a feature in Win-7? I know the OS will convert .wtv to the older .dvr-ms. Could that be what you are thinking of?

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I really don't see the need to save any recorded TV to optical media myself.
I don't either because I have a huge server -- but he asked, so I answered.

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post #35 of 42 Old 06-23-2014, 01:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Kelson View Post
OK, I don't have cable myself but I'm pretty sure that you have to use WMC with a cable-card tuner. All the other DVR packages I know of and have played with will support clear QAM recording (which FIOS has) but not cable card tuners because they lack the DRM support and therefore Cable-Labs certification. Cable-card tuners only do cable-card and not OTA or clear QAM.

I'm completely unaware of that .wtv --> .m2ts conversion you speak of by right-clicking. It's the first I've heard of it -- I'll have to try it. Is this a feature in Win-7? I know the OS will convert .wtv to the older .dvr-ms. Could that be what you are thinking of?

I don't either because I have a huge server -- but he asked, so I answered.
I haven't tried it myself, but I think several non-WMC packages can record "copy freely" content from a cable-card tuner even if it isn't clear QAM: http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/CableCARD

On my cable system, nearly all channels (except premiums like HBO) are copy freely, hence recordable by Myth and others. Some cable systems copy protect everything, so that's a big YMMV.

You're right about m2ts. I forgot about the dvrms step, then convert with something else.

As far as burning BD and DVD, I didn't mean to cast aspersions. Just saying there's less need for it these days, as you already know. I've gone from making DVDs of everything years ago to making virtually none.
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post #36 of 42 Old 06-23-2014, 08:40 PM
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Originally Posted by mdavej View Post
As far as burning BD and DVD, I didn't mean to cast aspersions. Just saying there's less need for it these days, as you already know. I've gone from making DVDs of everything years ago to making virtually none.
I still have a couple hundred T-Y Premium 8X disks from before the JVC merger.

The last DVD-R I burned was to make an Ubuntu boot disk from an .iso. I haven't burned DVD Video in years.

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post #37 of 42 Old 06-23-2014, 08:46 PM
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Originally Posted by mdavej View Post
I haven't tried it myself, but I think several non-WMC packages can record "copy freely" content from a cable-card tuner even if it isn't clear QAM: http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/CableCARD
I see. What appears to be unknown is exactly what qualifies as "DRM free". It may not be as simple as "copy freely" when it comes to cable card. If you ever try it, let me know.

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post #38 of 42 Old 06-24-2014, 09:26 AM
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tks - the decision is more and more leaning toward a PC based DVR system (Ceton, Hauppauge or Silicon dust) and just planning on permanent archiving on hard drives

tks for the PQ detail
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post #39 of 42 Old 06-24-2014, 12:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Kelson View Post
I see. What appears to be unknown is exactly what qualifies as "DRM free". It may not be as simple as "copy freely" when it comes to cable card. If you ever try it, let me know.
I'll probably never try it myself, but apparently "copy freely" does work with at least some non-WMC software: http://www.geektonic.com/2011/02/sag...d-support.html
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post #40 of 42 Old 06-24-2014, 12:08 PM
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Originally Posted by larryccf View Post
tks - the decision is more and more leaning toward a PC based DVR system (Ceton, Hauppauge or Silicon dust) and just planning on permanent archiving on hard drives

tks for the PQ detail
You'll be glad you did. I wish I'd done it sooner.

Ceton will probably have a big sale around the 4th, as they do every holiday. And Silicon Dust has been popping up on Woot every few months. I've bought several spare Homerun Primes I'll probably never use. I just can't pass up a deal.

My old Hauppauge was ok, but I wouldn't recommend it. Prime is much better. I personally use Ceton these days for its 4 tuners to one cable card. Six would be nice, but I can't justify the extra cost.

Good luck.
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post #41 of 42 Old 06-24-2014, 02:22 PM
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the ceton infiniTV6 eth is the one i've got my eye on - don't really need 6 tuners but i've got a spare ethernet cable already running from the router under the house to the TV center. But that 4 tuner unit is $100 cheaper

tks for the heads up on the 4th sale
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post #42 of 42 Old 06-30-2014, 06:07 PM
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I wanted to give an update to this thread in that I have Comcast cable in Michigan, I upgraded to their X1 platform in January. I have noticed that their composite video output does seem to handle 16 x 9 HD letterboxed material correctly to my DVD recorder. Unfortunately there is no S- video connection out of either one my DVR box or my "satellite" box.

But this lone composite output appears to now have the correct 16 x 9 aspect ratio handling for HD channels. (No more component-->s-video converter needed)

My non X1 box still has the format problem and I do have to run that through my component--->S video converter.

I would've gotten a third X1 box, however the DVD recorder that I have, a Panasonic EH 55, cannot change the channels via the IR eye so it is not good for programming any shows to record on the DVD recorder as it is happening; everything would have to be a transfered after the fact.

So I just wanted to let anyone know that if they go to the X1 platform everything looks good as far as analog video outputs formatting HD channels properly

Last edited by billmich; 07-01-2014 at 05:55 AM.
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