Help for transferring old VHS-C to DVD - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 7 Old 06-17-2014, 08:20 PM - Thread Starter
Newbie
 
jeffntate's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: SouthEast
Posts: 7
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Help for transferring old VHS-C to DVD

I've been dubbing tapes over several months and have run into a situation I cannot seem to get around. I have a video tape on VHS-C made in a consumer Camcorder in 2002 that I cannot get to tape without a large horizontal noise bar either in the middle of my video or on the tops and bottoms. I have adjusted the tracking on the VCR I'm using to dub and while I can move the noise band up or down, I can't get it to lock the video. I'm thinking the vertical sync is having problems. Strangely, when I rewind or fast forward the tape, it looks fine, but nothing works when I try playing it to record. I'm using the Pinnacle Studio for Dazzle and the Dazzle recording device which has worked fine for over 100 tapes. I switched out VCRs and no improvement. I tried playing the tape start to finish, fully rewinding it, then did that several times, and no improvement. I have all the cables dressed for no EMI crosstalk, so it has to be with the tape. Is there any tricks to solve this? Anyone I can send this to for professional dubbing that can solve this problem? Any help is appreciated
jeffntate is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 7 Old 06-17-2014, 09:23 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Church AV Guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: High Desert, California
Posts: 4,595
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 40 Post(s)
Liked: 55
It sounds suspiciously like this tape was recorded with a two head VCR at SP speed, but you are playing it on a VCR with four heads, so you are seeing the inter-track noise that you cannot remove with tracking control. Aside from trying to play it back on a two head VCR, I'm not sure what else you could try. There are a lot of guys here who are a lot smarter then I am though, so maybe they will have better ideas.

Luke

Evil is charming and beautiful. It makes you doubt yourself. It asks for one small compromise after another until it whittles you down, and it functions best when no one believes in it.-JOA
Church AV Guy is online now  
post #3 of 7 Old 06-17-2014, 11:41 PM - Thread Starter
Newbie
 
jeffntate's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: SouthEast
Posts: 7
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 10
If you are correct, I'll just get on Ebay and find a 2 head VCR and buy it. I've taped about a dozen of these VHS-C tapes made on the same Camcorder and never had this problem pop up, and even on this tape, about half way through it, the sync realigns and stays good through the last half of that particular tape. I've tried playing it and rewinding it every way possible, and it doesn't get any better regardless.

Input?
jeffntate is offline  
post #4 of 7 Old 06-18-2014, 08:35 AM
AVS Special Member
 
CitiBear's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 3,041
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 24 Post(s)
Liked: 50
The thing to keep in mind about VHS-C is that it was a kludg: a very very clever kludg that was kinda cool and worked as expected in its heyday, but still a kludg. The gimmick of small camcorder tapes that could be loaded into a standard VHS adapter shell and played on normal VCRs was great back then, but doesn't work so well these 20 years later. The little VHS-C cartridges have some mechanical issues to begin with, and the flimsy full-size VHS adapter shells are all over the map in terms of quality/compatibility.

Trying a two-head VCR may or may not limit this noise, so don't spend a lot of money in a quest for such a VCR. They are more helpful at playing old LP (4 hour) or EP (6 hour) tapes than recordings made at SP. The last new 2-head model I'm aware of was the Panasonic PV-QV200 made in 2000, but it may be hard to find. There were a great many 2-head Panasonic-Magnavox-Quasar models sold thru the early '90s but they were largely replaced by cheap 4-head models by the mid-90s. The name-brand two-head models can be surprisingly difficult to find today, considering how many millions were sold: you might have better luck searching out 2-head VCRs with names like Emerson or GoldStar.

Normally I would agree that a two-head VCR might help with playback, but after you said the issue resolves itself halfway thru the tape I'm leaning more towards the tape itself being defective up to that halfway point. It may have gotten gummed up the last time it was used before you tried to dub it, in which case there is very little you can do to repair this tracking problem. The fact that the noise bar moves across the screen as you adjust tracking indicates this is likely a tracking issue.

If the first half of the tape has stretched or contracted, the tracking mismatch may be impossible to fully resolve. You could try different full-size adapter shells: yours might be mechanically dragging during the first half of the tape. In extreme cases I've had to remove the actual tape from a VHS-C shell and install it permanently in a donor standard shell.

Good luck!
CitiBear is offline  
post #5 of 7 Old 06-18-2014, 10:52 AM
Member
 
FFVT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 23
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Liked: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by CitiBear View Post
The thing to keep in mind about VHS-C is that it was a kludg: a very very clever kludg that was kinda cool and worked as expected in its heyday, but still a kludg. The gimmick of small camcorder tapes that could be loaded into a standard VHS adapter shell and played on normal VCRs was great back then, but doesn't work so well these 20 years later. The little VHS-C cartridges have some mechanical issues to begin with, and the flimsy full-size VHS adapter shells are all over the map in terms of quality/compatibility.

I'm leaning more towards the tape itself being defective up to that halfway point.
+1

I've transferred about a billion and a half VHS-C tapes over the last decade. Good tapes, even those on EP mode, play fine once they track properly (a few seconds in). I've seen tapes similar to what the OP describes, and was never able to successfully fix that problem. It's just the way the tape is, IMO.

Also, regarding VHS-C adapters, I've managed to go on Ebay and Amazon to find vintage battery-operated adapters. They aren't always cheap, but for some reason, they are way more reliable than the cheap mechanical ones (where you have to slide the cover closed). They usually got stuck in all my VCR's, and made a lot of loud grinding noises when fast forwarding or rewinding.
FFVT is offline  
post #6 of 7 Old 06-18-2014, 11:14 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Church AV Guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: High Desert, California
Posts: 4,595
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 40 Post(s)
Liked: 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffntate View Post
If you are correct, I'll just get on Ebay and find a 2 head VCR and buy it. I've taped about a dozen of these VHS-C tapes made on the same Camcorder and never had this problem pop up, and even on this tape, about half way through it, the sync realigns and stays good through the last half of that particular tape. I've tried playing it and rewinding it every way possible, and it doesn't get any better regardless.

Input?

If you had said that originally, I would not have suggested the two head VCR solution. It was a long shot in the first place because a four head VCR SHOULD play tapes made with a two head VCR just fine. With this additional information, I agree with Citibear below.


Quote:
Originally Posted by CitiBear View Post
The thing to keep in mind about VHS-C is that it was a kludg: a very very clever kludg that was kinda cool and worked as expected in its heyday, but still a kludg. The gimmick of small camcorder tapes that could be loaded into a standard VHS adapter shell and played on normal VCRs was great back then, but doesn't work so well these 20 years later. The little VHS-C cartridges have some mechanical issues to begin with, and the flimsy full-size VHS adapter shells are all over the map in terms of quality/compatibility.

Trying a two-head VCR may or may not limit this noise, so don't spend a lot of money in a quest for such a VCR. They are more helpful at playing old LP (4 hour) or EP (6 hour) tapes than recordings made at SP. The last new 2-head model I'm aware of was the Panasonic PV-QV200 made in 2000, but it may be hard to find. There were a great many 2-head Panasonic-Magnavox-Quasar models sold thru the early '90s but they were largely replaced by cheap 4-head models by the mid-90s. The name-brand two-head models can be surprisingly difficult to find today, considering how many millions were sold: you might have better luck searching out 2-head VCRs with names like Emerson or GoldStar.

Normally I would agree that a two-head VCR might help with playback, but after you said the issue resolves itself halfway thru the tape I'm leaning more towards the tape itself being defective up to that halfway point. It may have gotten gummed up the last time it was used before you tried to dub it, in which case there is very little you can do to repair this tracking problem. The fact that the noise bar moves across the screen as you adjust tracking indicates this is likely a tracking issue.

If the first half of the tape has stretched or contracted, the tracking mismatch may be impossible to fully resolve. You could try different full-size adapter shells: yours might be mechanically dragging during the first half of the tape. In extreme cases I've had to remove the actual tape from a VHS-C shell and install it permanently in a donor standard shell.

Good luck!

Agreed, good luck. Let us know how it turns out.

Luke

Evil is charming and beautiful. It makes you doubt yourself. It asks for one small compromise after another until it whittles you down, and it functions best when no one believes in it.-JOA
Church AV Guy is online now  
post #7 of 7 Old 06-18-2014, 06:14 PM
Advanced Member
 
Super Eye's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 940
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Liked: 18
I take it that this is still the original VHS-C tape? If so one thing worth trying is playing back the tape via a VHS-C camcorder.

If I remember correctly VHS-C camcorders had a half-size drum with twice rotation RPM. So an actual VHS-C deck (with the half-size-drum) might improve the playback. If the tape is stretched or skewed too much nothing may help.
Super Eye is offline  
Reply DVD Recorders (Standard Def)
Gear in this thread

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off