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post #1 of 32 Old 07-24-2014, 01:55 PM - Thread Starter
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recommendations for a stand alone Blu-Ray recorder

noticed not a lot of discussion regarding blu-ray recorders in this forum - curious if anyone has a recommendation. I've got a few 2+ hour movies that i'd prefer to keep the recorded quality as high as possible

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post #2 of 32 Old 07-24-2014, 02:33 PM
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It's because there are no standalone BD recorders here in N. America
If you were in Europe or other PAL countries you'd have a choice of a few standalone BD recorders, for ~$500 and it's been speculated if you were able to have a Amazon.uk or a similar European seller ship to you that they would record NTSC(they generally have a PAL/NTSC setting) the tuner would be useless here and the only way to record HD is from the built in tuner. You'd essentially have a SD recorder that would have the ability to record many hours to BDs, which generally cost the same as a quality DL DVD(but hold ~1/3rd the data).
If interested in something like this you might want to check Amazon.uk, Panasonic and a few other mfgs. currently make them but be forewarned, even in Europe they aren't particularly popular as the Europeans like the N. Americans are moving away from physical media in droves and instead prefer to stream their media.
A better solution than a standalone BDR would be to build one yourself from a PC, not only could you burn HD but it would be a whole lot easier to purchase and service.
BTW I'm able to burn 2.5+ hrs(up to ~3hrs IMO) of good looking full D1 resolution material on my Panasonics using SL blanks, almost double that using DL blanks, it's one reason I haven't pursued BD burning, that and I've got lots of DVD players and only a few BD players. Newer Panasonics can record up to 4hrs/SL DVD in full resolution but over 3hrs and macroblocking in areas of fast motion become quite evident.

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post #3 of 32 Old 07-24-2014, 04:04 PM - Thread Starter
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tks - i had looked around and couldn't find any, but didn't think they just weren't out there as i saw plenty for computers. Might just go the route of a HTPC - that refurb'd azus computer deal the other day for $149 would have been a good beginning.

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post #4 of 32 Old 07-24-2014, 06:38 PM
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As jjeff said, no standalone "consumer" BD recorders with tuners were ever marketed in North America. There were/are a trio of JVC professional models, priced between $999 and $3,500, but no internal tuner and no ability to record in HiDef from external tuners (just from esoteric pro gear and a handful of video cameras).

The European and Asian consumer models were almost exclusively marketed by Panasonic, who made (in hindsight) an incredibly ill-advised and expensive deal with Sony at the dawn of BluRay for a near-monopoly on standalone recorders. These Panasonic BD/HDD units were a little strange right from the beginning and got stranger as the years passed, to where the most recent models were considered total dogs by the European A/V press. The reviews on Amazon.uk are very mixed, many consumers far prefer the first-gen models to later ones.

It may all be moot. Panasonic seems to be phasing them out worldwide, as the few other BD recorder brands already did years ago. And recent lab studies of BD blank media indicate most of it may be far more dodgy than anyone expected, about as archival as Ritek or CMC DVD-RW. So maybe we didn't miss anything after all by sticking with our relatively safe Verbatim DVD-Rs. The mass market seems to have moved to hard drive or cloud storage for HD content anyway, with physical media rapidly becoming as outre as a V8 Ford Mustang cruising the streets of Paris.

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post #5 of 32 Old 07-24-2014, 09:58 PM
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Originally Posted by CitiBear View Post
And recent lab studies of BD blank media indicate most of it may be far more dodgy than anyone expected, about as archival as Ritek or CMC DVD-RW.
I would like to see a link to that. I've not seen anything that would imply BD-R was unstable -- just the opposite. You might be referring to LTH disks which use the same dye-based technology as DVD-R and not real BD-R which is a solid-state recording layer.

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post #6 of 32 Old 07-24-2014, 09:59 PM
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Originally Posted by larryccf View Post
noticed not a lot of discussion regarding blu-ray recorders in this forum - curious if anyone has a recommendation.
You will need to use a PC-based solution to do any BD-R recording. They work quite well as HD DVR's with archiving capability.

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post #7 of 32 Old 07-25-2014, 08:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelson View Post
I would like to see a link to that. I've not seen anything that would imply BD-R was unstable -- just the opposite. You might be referring to LTH disks which use the same dye-based technology as DVD-R and not real BD-R which is a solid-state recording layer.

The study is discussed and linked here. Like all such studies, I'm sure the methodology can be questioned and there are flaws in the assumptions, but similar tests have been performed on CD-R and DVD-R so there is precedent. Actual user experience can vary tremendously from lab tests, of course: for example, before I "knew better" I burned hundreds of crummy CMC MAG3 dvds in 2005. These were later duped to Verbatim AZO for insurance, but so far none of my "terrible" CMCs have failed despite being intentionally stored near a window in direct sunlight for the past seven years.

The French study covered both types of BD media. LTH was already suspect so it was no surprise it didn't do at all well in the tests. The surprise was the poor results from Verbatim HTL, vs their own DVD AZO media. Some other HTLs were also poor.

The takeaway from this study was unless you're using the comparatively scarce *specific* Sony incarnation of HTL or similarly hard to find Panasonic HTL, then BD media overall is about the same crapshoot as DVD media (i.e., if its a brand you can buy conveniently in a local retail store, its garbage, if you have to scour the internet for it and pay a premium, then its decent). At least with DVD-R you can still trust Verbatim AZO available almost everywhere, often at attractive prices. For good BD-R, looks like web dealers are the only option.
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post #8 of 32 Old 07-25-2014, 09:29 AM
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I am in the process of having a HTPC build specifically for the purposes of recording and archiving sporting events in HD on Blu-ray. The cost of my unit via Microcenter will be around $1,000.

Maybe I am overbuying certain things, but if I am going to do this, I might as well do it right.

Does anyone have recommendations as to solid reliable editing and conversion ( I don't want AVCHD, I was to be able to record on Blu-ray discs)
software? I am a Panasonic DVD-recorder user and would like to have as many of those functions and features as possible.
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post #9 of 32 Old 07-25-2014, 09:34 AM
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Originally Posted by CitiBear View Post
The study is discussed and linked here. . . .
Thanks Bear. I'll take a closer look later when I have time but a quick scan indicated what I suspected -- LTH is garbage.

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post #10 of 32 Old 07-25-2014, 10:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billmich View Post
I am in the process of having a HTPC build specifically for the purposes of recording and archiving sporting events in HD on Blu-ray. The cost of my unit via Microcenter will be around $1,000.

Maybe I am overbuying certain things, but if I am going to do this, I might as well do it right.

Does anyone have recommendations as to solid reliable editing and conversion ( I don't want AVCHD, I was to be able to record on Blu-ray discs)
software? I am a Panasonic DVD-recorder user and would like to have as many of those functions and features as possible.
I don't know what you are putting together, but $1000 for a good system with some muscle is pretty reasonable, IMHO. I really don't know what these people are getting that say they can put together a HTPC for $300. I wanted to build something that I knew was going to run 24x7 and I don't stay up at nights trying to figure out how to go cheap (see my sig.). I spent ~$400 on building the basic box without HDD's when I put my Shuttle-based Media-PC/server together (I3, 12GB RAM, built like a tank). The real expense is the HDD's. I have a bunch of those (16TB) and they ran ~$100 each. Add another $100 for the 4-bay external enclosure. Added Win-7 Pro for another $80. I guess the total system is up to ~$1100-1200. I can add another 4-bay with 12TB for $500 if I eventually want to.

For editing software -- if you are talking about editing HDTV recordings to remove commercials then there is only 1 recommendation -- Video ReDo H.264. It costs $100 but that only stings once and you will never regret the purchase once you start using it. I've been using it for 3 years which is when I started burning BD-R. It generally takes me 6 min to strip the commercials from a 1hr show after you run the auto-commercial detection module on the files. If you want software that will make editing HDTV fast and fun this is it -- it was made specifically for this task. As good as Panasonic editing on a deck may be, it is stone-age compared to VRD.

Burning titles edited in VRD to BD-R is ridiculously simple if you are OK with a simple menu of a list of titles. It is even easier than burning a DVD-R. If you want more with fancy moving menus, etc. there is a steep learning curve, the authoring software can get a little pricey and varies widely in capability.

I've been burning BD-R for over 3 yrs and the first disks I burned have their full integrity and can be ripped without any errors. I use BD-R made by Philips that sell for ~$0.50 each in lots of 50.

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post #11 of 32 Old 07-25-2014, 10:22 AM
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Kelson,

You are the 2nd person to recommend that software; so it will edit AND make conversions?

If you don't mind, I would like to PM you with what I have been quoted at microcenter to buy and maybe you could tell me if I am overspending, or underspending in particular area

thank you
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post #12 of 32 Old 07-25-2014, 11:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billmich View Post
Kelson,

You are the 2nd person to recommend that software; so it will edit AND make conversions?

If you don't mind, I would like to PM you with what I have been quoted at microcenter to buy and maybe you could tell me if I am overspending, or underspending in particular area

thank you
VRD will open HDTV files in all the common formats -- including WMC and .tivo files (I use TiVo). It will save them in all the common formats -- for BluRay that would be .m2ts as the native format. There is no conversion or recoding involved. HDTV is coded as MPEG-2 and you can maintain that coding in any of the file formats so saves are reasonably quick -- just a remuxing of the streams into the container of choice. If you want, you can have it recode to X.264 to save about 30% of the space without losing any quality. It takes a couple hours on an I7 and you can run the batch utility to do several files unattended over night. I don't bother with recoding, MPEG-2 is fine for me. I don't need to go to all that trouble to fit an extra episode on the BD-R.

Don't PM me. Keep it in open forum so others can learn.

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post #13 of 32 Old 07-25-2014, 12:24 PM
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HTPC pricing byMicrocenter


· AMDA10 7850K 4.0 GHz Black edition processor 140

· ASUSA88X – Pro Socket FM2+ ATX AMD Motherboard 130

· CorsairVengeance pro series 8 GB DDR3-2133 (two 4GB memory modules) 100

· EVGA500 watt 80+ 500 watt ATX power supply ($5rebate) 45

· HauppaugeColossus 168

· LGInternal 16X super-multi blu-ray write
(I may be able to get the same for $60) 130

· Windows7 Home premium 64 bit -
some people have said maybe I should get 32 bit 100

· V3Black edition ATX computer case ($15rebate) 40

· Toshiba7,200 RPM SATA 1 TB hard drive 50



I still needto get the Hauppauge 2650 dual tuner, and whatever software necessary to doediting and converting to files that are true Blu-ray, NOT AVCHD.

Which Video ReDo should I get? (there appears to be 3 versions)



Total= 900

Plusbuild 100 100

Discounts(40) (40)

962

Total/tax 1020

Rebates (20) 1000
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post #14 of 32 Old 07-25-2014, 09:19 PM
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Originally Posted by billmich View Post
Which Video ReDo should I get? (there appears to be 3 versions)
H.264 version, especially if you are going to use WMC.

If you have not bought the PC yet, take a look at this thread for building a WMC HTPC.

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post #15 of 32 Old 07-25-2014, 09:57 PM
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Skip the Blu-Ray recording altogether. BD Drive = $100, good quality BD blanks = about $1.50 each. Decent SATA cradle = $20, hard drives ~ $30 per TB. 40 (25 GB) BD blanks to a TB...You do the math....
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post #16 of 32 Old 07-25-2014, 11:52 PM
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Originally Posted by olyteddy View Post
Skip the Blu-Ray recording altogether. BD Drive = $100, good quality BD blanks = about $1.50 each. Decent SATA cradle = $20, hard drives ~ $30 per TB. 40 (25 GB) BD blanks to a TB...You do the math....
Math is no good when starting with faulty assumptions.
More like:
LG BluRay burner = $55
Good BD-R blanks = $0.50/disk. 120 disks (3TB) = $60
3TB Seagate drives for server = $100

Cost comparison of BD-R to HDD = irrelevant if you want to have a physical disk.

I for one, do both. I keep a lot of HDTV captures on my server. For those I want to keep permanently, I burn to BD-R which serves as a backup.

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post #17 of 32 Old 07-26-2014, 08:31 AM
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My whole point of this is to archive into physical discs, make copies for friends...etc
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post #18 of 32 Old 07-26-2014, 08:34 AM
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I have not built my PC yet, thanks for the link, I will check it out

1st look seems to deal with issues like networking and stuff I do t want to deal with

All I am trying to do here is build a Blu-ray recorder, since they don't make then as stand alone components for home theater. I will use this device for nothing more than recording, editing, burning, and dubbing

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post #19 of 32 Old 07-26-2014, 09:18 AM
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Anyone have a recommendation of if I should go with the Hauppauge 2650 or the Home Run Prime unit?
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post #20 of 32 Old 07-26-2014, 12:06 PM
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For hdd's I use only these are made for 24/7 use. only spin 5900 rms Product DescriptionIdeal for storing large amounts of digital high-definition media, this Seagate 1 TB hard drive has enough space to retain hours of favorite shows on DVR units for viewing later. With the Seagate Pipeline HD (ST1000VM002), users enjoy reliability for their "always-on" systems, such as home theaters and DVRs, with an annualized failure rate down to 0.55 percent. Despite spinning at 5900 RPM, this internal hard drive operates with 40 percent lower heat production than comparable units, thus lending efficiency and longevity to its operation. With its SATA standard connectivity, this Seagate 1 TB hard drive is interchangeable with many other devices to accommodate system upgrades, and offers users interface speeds up to 6 Gbps, with 600 Mbps external transfer rates. The Seagate Pipeline HD sports a 64 MB cache for keeping things running smoothly, and offers streaming of up to 20 SDTV or 16 HDTV channels simultaneously for entertainment in various rooms. Less than six seconds stands between power-on and readiness, making this internal hard drive quick to respond. Meeting ENERGY STAR and power consumption standards, this Seagate 1 TB hard drive offers quiet operation that keeps energy bills down while ensuring no show is miss






Seagate Pipeline HD (ST1000VM002)1TB 64MB Cache 3.5" SATA3 Hard Drive -CCTV DVR

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post #21 of 32 Old 07-26-2014, 01:13 PM
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My whole point of this is to archive into physical discs, make copies for friends...etc
One thing VRD will do is take an HDTV capture and down-rez it to 480i (keeping 5.1 audio) for burning onto DVD-R. DVD authoring/burning tools are included in VRD. This could be useful for making disks for family/friends without BD players or who only deserve DVD disks.

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post #22 of 32 Old 07-26-2014, 01:15 PM
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I have not built my PC yet, thanks for the link, I will check it out

1st look seems to deal with issues like networking and stuff I do t want to deal with
Keep reading. Scan the thread for Charles R's posts. He talks later about building various machines for running WMC.

If you like I could briefly detail what I built for my Media-PC. It's not super cheap -- I don't roll that way -- but it is super flexible and quite powerful for video and server apps.

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post #23 of 32 Old 07-26-2014, 01:19 PM
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Seagate Pipeline HD (ST1000VM002)1TB 64MB Cache 3.5" SATA3 Hard Drive -CCTV DVR
Pipelines are wonderful AV disks. They are the only disks I would use in my DVR's which is what they are made for -- low power and performance tailored to multiple video streams. I don't use them in my servers or Media-PC -- for those I prefer the performance of Seagate Barracudas.

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post #24 of 32 Old 07-26-2014, 02:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelson View Post
One thing VRD will do is take an HDTV capture and down-rez it to 480i (keeping 5.1 audio) for burning onto DVD-R. DVD authoring/burning tools are included in VRD. This could be useful for making disks for family/friends without BD players or who only deserve DVD disks.

This is a very nice bonus
I'm sold on the VRD!!!!


Now I'm wondering do I really need 8GB of memory
Should I go with 32-bit over 64-bit windows 7?
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post #25 of 32 Old 07-26-2014, 08:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelson View Post
Math is no good when starting with faulty assumptions.
More like:
LG BluRay burner = $55
Good BD-R blanks = $0.50/disk. 120 disks (3TB) = $60
3TB Seagate drives for server = $100

Cost comparison of BD-R to HDD = irrelevant if you want to have a physical disk.

I for one, do both. I keep a lot of HDTV captures on my server. For those I want to keep permanently, I burn to BD-R which serves as a backup.
You might trust 50¢ blanks but I wouldn't.

http://www.amazon.com/product-review...owViewpoints=0

http://club.myce.com/f33/first-phili...n-scan-334147/
Marc Wielage likes this.

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post #26 of 32 Old 07-26-2014, 11:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by olyteddy View Post
You might trust 50¢ blanks but I wouldn't.
That's your loss. You want to quote me the 23 1-star reviews? How about the 23 4-star reviews or the 133 5-star reviews that give them an overall rating of 4.5 stars. I've been reliably burning them for over 3 yrs. In the hundreds I've burned I've had 1 bad burn that failed the verify and that was my fault for trying to burn a 4x rated disk at 6x. Just the other night I ripped a couple of the first BD-R disks I ever burned and they ripped at full speed with no issues.

They sit untouched in sleeves, stored in the dark with no temperature extremes.
Will they last 10 yr?
Won't matter -- 10 yr from now I won't care about what I burned today.
I do have DVD-R I burned 10 yr ago that are stored similarly and still rip without issue.
Some of them are even Memorex DVD-R.
And I really don't care about that content I burned 10 yr ago.

This is all to say that I think longevity studies based on disk analysis programs run on freshly burned disks don't really correlate with real-world long-term longevity for properly stored media. At least not in my experience.

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post #27 of 32 Old 07-29-2014, 09:50 AM
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Do people here have an opinion as to whether 4GB of memory will be sufficient with the 32-bit system, or should I go with 8GB and 64 BIT.

I know bigger is better, but I also wish to not spend money that won't provide me bang for the buck

any thoughts?

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post #28 of 32 Old 07-29-2014, 11:34 AM
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Originally Posted by billmich View Post
Do people here have an opinion as to whether 4GB of memory will be sufficient with the 32-bit system, or should I go with 8GB and 64 BIT.

I know bigger is better, but I also wish to not spend money that won't provide me bang for the buck

any thoughts?
If you are talking Win-7, go 64 bit and 8GB or more. I put 12 GB in mine but only because I had 4GB on hand and added the extra 8GB, otherwise I would have put in 16GB to start.

I would not bother with 32-bit Win-7. If you want 32-bit you might as well stay with Win-XP.

- kelson h

The bitterness of poor quality lasts long after the sweetness of the low price is forgotten . . . life is too short to drink bad wine

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post #29 of 32 Old 07-29-2014, 12:38 PM
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If you are talking Win-7, go 64 bit and 8GB or more. I put 12 GB in mine but only because I had 4GB on hand and added the extra 8GB, otherwise I would have put in 16GB to start.

I would not bother with 32-bit Win-7. If you want 32-bit you might as well stay with Win-XP.
I am looking to do the Windows 7 system

Thank you for your thoughts
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post #30 of 32 Old 08-07-2014, 08:10 AM
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Anyone have a recommendation of if I should go with the Hauppauge 2650 or the Home Run Prime unit?
I'd go with the HDHomeRun. I bought a HDHR Prime over a year ago and it has been 100% reliable. The Prime has one tuner more than 2650 and it's on sale at Microcenter for $104 right now.
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