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post #61 of 110 Old 08-30-2014, 10:41 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjeff View Post
Ty DVDs are probably the most revered discs followed closely by Verbatim AZO DVDs.

I think I would reverse the order and say that Verbs are slightly more respected, but the difference is pretty small.


I ran DVD Identifier on the old T-Y -R DL disks that I have and go the following:



----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Unique Disc Identifier : [DVD-R-DL:TYG11]
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Disc & Book Type : [DVD-R DL] - [DVD-R]
Manufacturer Name : [Taiyo Yuden Co. Ltd.]
Manufacturer ID : [TYG11]
Blank Disc Capacity : [4,171,712 Sectors = 8.54 GB (7.96 GiB)]
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
[ DVD Identifier V5.2.0 - http://DVD.Identifier.CDfreaks.com ]
----------------------------------------------------------------------------




I then ran it on the new "THAT'S" DVD -R DL disk and got...



----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Unique Disc Identifier : [DVD-R-DL:TYG11]
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Disc & Book Type : [DVD-R DL] - [DVD-R]
Manufacturer Name : [Taiyo Yuden Co. Ltd.]
Manufacturer ID : [TYG11]
Blank Disc Capacity : [4,171,712 Sectors = 8.54 GB (7.96 GiB)]
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
[ DVD Identifier V5.2.0 - http://DVD.Identifier.CDfreaks.com ]
----------------------------------------------------------------------------


In case you didn't catch it, they are identical. If there was any doubt, I can now confidently state the THAT'S disks are indeed Taiyo Yuden disks. $1.28 per DL disk for genuine T-Ys is not a bad price. The latest batch of Verb -R single layer disks cost me about $0.20 per disk, so these are about six times the cost of an SL disk. In terms of space, these DL disks are almost exactly 3.5 times the cost of SL disk space. You definitely pay a premium for the convenience of a single disk. Still, it's a lot cheaper than VHS tapes used to be.


Tonight HBO is showing the second Hobbit movie, so I will use this as an opportunity to test the new DL disks. With the above information from DVD indentifier, I am confident there will be no problem.

Luke

Evil is charming and beautiful. It makes you doubt yourself. It asks for one small compromise after another until it whittles you down, and it functions best when no one believes in it.-JOA
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post #62 of 110 Old 08-30-2014, 11:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Church AV Guy View Post
I think I would reverse the order and say that Verbs are slightly more respected, but the difference is pretty small.


I ran DVD Identifier on the old T-Y -R DL disks that I have and go the following:



----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Unique Disc Identifier : [DVD-R-DL:TYG11]
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Disc & Book Type : [DVD-R DL] - [DVD-R]
Manufacturer Name : [Taiyo Yuden Co. Ltd.]
Manufacturer ID : [TYG11]
Blank Disc Capacity : [4,171,712 Sectors = 8.54 GB (7.96 GiB)]
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
[ DVD Identifier V5.2.0 - http://DVD.Identifier.CDfreaks.com ]
----------------------------------------------------------------------------




I then ran it on the new "THAT'S" DVD -R DL disk and got...



----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Unique Disc Identifier : [DVD-R-DL:TYG11]
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Disc & Book Type : [DVD-R DL] - [DVD-R]
Manufacturer Name : [Taiyo Yuden Co. Ltd.]
Manufacturer ID : [TYG11]
Blank Disc Capacity : [4,171,712 Sectors = 8.54 GB (7.96 GiB)]
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
[ DVD Identifier V5.2.0 - http://DVD.Identifier.CDfreaks.com ]
----------------------------------------------------------------------------


In case you didn't catch it, they are identical. If there was any doubt, I can now confidently state the THAT'S disks are indeed Taiyo Yuden disks. $1.28 per DL disk for genuine T-Ys is not a bad price. The latest batch of Verb -R single layer disks cost me about $0.20 per disk, so these are about six times the cost of an SL disk. In terms of space, these DL disks are almost exactly 3.5 times the cost of SL disk space. You definitely pay a premium for the convenience of a single disk. Still, it's a lot cheaper than VHS tapes used to be.


Tonight HBO is showing the second Hobbit movie, so I will use this as an opportunity to test the new DL disks. With the above information from DVD indentifier, I am confident there will be no problem.
Taiyo Yuden was established by Hikohachi Sato on March 23, 1950, in Suginami, Tokyo.

That's branded Audio tape, known as Triad in North America, was introduced to the market in 1982.
Since 1985, Taiyo Yuden has annually published Needs & Seeds (Taiyo Yuden Technical Report, ISSN 0911-5439).
In October 1988, the world's first CD-R was made by Taiyo Yuden and presented to the public under the brand name That's CD-R, however development had already begun as early as in summer 1985.
In 1987, START Lab Inc. was founded as a joint venture between Sony Corporation and Taiyo Yuden Co., Ltd. for the CD-R recording media business in Japan.
Taiyo Yuden introduced That's Double Density CD-R with 1.3 GB storage space in 2000.
Effective March 1, 2006, the power supply factory in Mexico (formerly Taiyo Yuden de Mexico, originally Zentec Inc.) was sold to Tamura Corporation.
The acquisition of Shoei Electronics Co., Ltd., formerly a subsidiary of Shoei Co., Ltd., took place March 1, 2007.
In 2008, Taiyo Yuden became a subsidiary of Victor Advanced Media, a division of the Japan Victor Corporation. Item
Taiyo Yuden That's series,DVD-R
Desripition
2-8x write once format DVD, ideal for Data/Tex/Audio/Video/Photography Use
Storage Capacity
8.5GB , Double layer
Speed
8x
Size
  • Disc diameter: 120mm
  • Diameter recording area: 44.7mm~118mm
  • Thickness: 1.2-1.5mm


Material
Substrate: PC
Recording layer: silver
Protective layer: UV curable lacquer
Characteristics:
  • Excellent performance
  • High capacity and data transfer rate
  • Long-term data archiving
  • Allow over 1,000,000 times of reading
  • Full compatibility with most of the CD/DVD/BD-R writers and player

MickinCT

Last edited by mickinct; 08-30-2014 at 07:22 PM.
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post #63 of 110 Old 08-30-2014, 01:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Church AV Guy View Post
I think I would reverse the order and say that Verbs are slightly more respected, but the difference is pretty small.
....I am confident there will be no problem.
I mostly use AZO Verbs but mainly because the price I can get them for and the fact that they have a matt top as apposed to Tys lower cost line that have the very glossy finger print magnet top. I really like the fact that the Tys have the slightly tactile bottom(and spindle area) which even on a slightly dirty Panasonic DVDR spindle will grip, although AZO Verbs grip pretty well too, the cheaper Life line not so much.
Do the Thats(Ty) -R DL DVDs also have a slightly tactile bottom, spindle area? I know you said they were printable flat white tops which I like as well as the Verbs branded tops.
Did you ask them about if they'd offer any discount on purchasing multi spindles? If nothing else I'd think shipping might be lower per spindle if one ordered say 3 or 4 spindles....if they don't thats OK too but it might be worth asking if you haven't already.
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post #64 of 110 Old 08-30-2014, 06:52 PM - Thread Starter
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jjeff,


I didn't ask about anything before I got a set. I expect shipping would be less per spindle if you bought two rather than one, but I don't know. How many of these would you actually use? Mickinct says that "Package: 10 disc" when this is clearly 50 disk, and the two surfaces are not the same, but whatever.


Oh, and the Magnavox won't even read a DL disk. It wouldn't give me the media ID, just spit the disk back out.

Luke

Evil is charming and beautiful. It makes you doubt yourself. It asks for one small compromise after another until it whittles you down, and it functions best when no one believes in it.-JOA
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post #65 of 110 Old 08-30-2014, 07:01 PM
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... the Magnavox won't even read a DL disk. It wouldn't give me the media ID, just spit the disk back out.
The Mag will play finalized DL discs... have you tried it?
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post #66 of 110 Old 08-30-2014, 11:09 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm sorry, I should have said, it won't read blank, unfinalized DVD -R DL disks. It will likely play finalized DL disks because most commercial disks are dl. Again, caught in an inaccurate generalization.

Luke

Evil is charming and beautiful. It makes you doubt yourself. It asks for one small compromise after another until it whittles you down, and it functions best when no one believes in it.-JOA
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post #67 of 110 Old 08-31-2014, 05:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Church AV Guy View Post
jjeff,
Oh, and the Magnavox won't even read a DL disk. It wouldn't give me the media ID, just spit the disk back out.
Oops, didn't think of that but as Wajo said, maybe the Magnavox will read the MID after it's been finalized.
Getting back to the bottom of the -R DL discs, are you saying they aren't slightly tactile like the regular -R Tys? You can't tell from looking, the best way to tell is with a freshly washed hand(no oil on it) lightly slide your finger on the bottom of the disc near the spindle area, regular discs are just a hard plastic and offer no resistance, all the -R Tys I've checked tend to keep your finger from sliding. It's this property that really help the DVDRs spindle hold the disc for a secure hold.
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post #68 of 110 Old 08-31-2014, 07:08 AM
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Oh, and the Magnavox won't even read a DL disk. It wouldn't give me the media ID, just spit the disk back out.
You can always put the disk in your PC burner and start a cop of ImgBurn to get the full disk specs. in the Info tab.

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post #69 of 110 Old 08-31-2014, 05:44 PM
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Hope you have good luck with these -DL disks. So far I'm not real pleased with the Verbatim 8X +DL. I'm able to burn them at the rated 8X and so far 1 out of every 4 has failed a verify. I didn't have anything like this with the 2.4X +DL disks I had -- I think I had 1 out of 26 fail a verify. I'm reducing the burn speed to 4X and will see if that helps matters any.

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post #70 of 110 Old 08-31-2014, 06:20 PM
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For the hey of it i ran DVD Identifier on a verbatim dvd-r SL and it showed "Mitsubishi Chemical Corp" - ?????

and on a side note, as a heads up to folks, i went over to CNET to download the DVD Identifier program, and this is the 2nd time it's happened. 1st time, about 2 weeks ago downloading a similiar "free" software, some malware took over my computer right away, and did 2 things: 1) on web browsing it would keep "re-directing" me to a Yahoo search page, at first when i would clik on links (like links on this forum), then it would just redirect at will, spontaneously, without any link selection. At the same time, down in the right hand corner, a warning msg keep popping up, alerting me that "computer search function" is not protected, it is recommended you enable asap" or some such. My virus software found a "searchprotection.exe" malware file but i ended up just cloning my backup HD back onto the computer.

Then today when i went over to CNET and downloaded DVD identifier, same thing. Spent the last 2 hours repeating the backup clone.

as an FYI

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post #71 of 110 Old 08-31-2014, 07:05 PM
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I had a similar thing happen when I downloaded IMGBURN from one of the major hosts that were listed My search function got hijacked and would direct me to sites I'm sure paid the hijacker. I did a Google search on the problem and a couple hours later was able to remove the culprit. I'm having issues with the log not showing on IMGBURN on another PC and was thinking about uninstalling it and downloading another copy but because of my bad recent experience have just been living without the log function.
Oh and Kelson, not sure if it helps but I always burn DVDs in my PC at 1/2 the rated speed(except for the 2.4x Verbatim DLs which I feel are already slow enough) and I've had real good luck. I only recently purchased a 50 spindle of the Verbatim 8x DLs because they were quite a few dollars less than my preferred 2.4x variety, funny slower DVDs are actually cheaper than faster ones, I remember when faster ones were more.
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post #72 of 110 Old 08-31-2014, 09:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjeff View Post
I had a similar thing happen when I downloaded IMGBURN from one of the major hosts that were listed My search function got hijacked and would direct me to sites I'm sure paid the hijacker. I did a Google search on the problem and a couple hours later was able to remove the culprit. I'm having issues with the log not showing on IMGBURN on another PC and was thinking about uninstalling it and downloading another copy but because of my bad recent experience have just been living without the log function.
Oh and Kelson, not sure if it helps but I always burn DVDs in my PC at 1/2 the rated speed(except for the 2.4x Verbatim DLs which I feel are already slow enough) and I've had real good luck. I only recently purchased a 50 spindle of the Verbatim 8x DLs because they were quite a few dollars less than my preferred 2.4x variety, funny slower DVDs are actually cheaper than faster ones, I remember when faster ones were more.
I always burned my 8X T-Y Premium at 8X and never had problems. Also, I burn my B-R at their full rates without issue. I guess I expected the same for the Verbatim 8X +DL. Anyway, I've been burning them at 4X and so far 6 burns have gone OK and verified. I'll burn off the rest of these disks at 4X.

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post #73 of 110 Old 09-01-2014, 01:40 AM - Thread Starter
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Okay, I apologize that my report was a long time in coming, but it was more complex than I anticipated.


I recorded a movie that I wanted to burn to a DL disk, did all the editing and titling and everything was ready to go. I put in the THAT'S disk and initiated the copy. My EH55 made an unusually loud grinding sound, then proceeded to start the copy, but it only APPEARED to. The progress meter never left 0% done, and after a minute or two I got an error screen telling me that something was wrong with the disk and machine was going to shut down, which it did. Thinking that it just might have been the disk, I tried it again with another one, and it did the same thing. Now, I am wondering about my EH55, so I put in a VERB +R DL disk, and the movie copied with no grinding noise, and without a problem.


I am nothing if not persistent. Call that first experiment EH55-1. I moved the content (RAM disks) to EH55-2 and tried it again. I got similar results, but this time it actually started copying the content, and it progressed much more quickly than the +R disks. It reached the point of the layer change when it made the scary noise and the copy failed. Three failures in a row. It was looking grim.


I realized that in my other room, I had an EH55-3 which had some content I was going to put on a DL disk, so I pessimistically put one of these in the machine and it made a grinding noise, but not as bad, and started to make the copy. This time it finished. Really! So, I tried it again, and it worked--again!


So, here is where I stand. I don't know what to make of these things. Machines which never make a grinding noise, make it with these disks. Two of the three machines I tried using them in didn't work. The +R DLs never have given me a problem except that they won't play on some (many?) machines. I wonder what the issue is with these -R DL disks?


What do you all think?


Oh, and jjeff, there does appear to be a slightly tacky substance at the center of the disks. The noise is not related to the disk spinning but the laser seeking. I know the difference.

Luke

Evil is charming and beautiful. It makes you doubt yourself. It asks for one small compromise after another until it whittles you down, and it functions best when no one believes in it.-JOA
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post #74 of 110 Old 09-01-2014, 04:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjeff View Post
I had a similar thing happen when I downloaded IMGBURN from one of the major hosts that were listed My search function got hijacked and would direct me to sites I'm sure paid the hijacker. I did a Google search on the problem and a couple hours later was able to remove the culprit. I'm having issues with the log not showing on IMGBURN on another PC and was thinking about uninstalling it and downloading another copy but because of my bad recent experience have just been living without the log function.......
.
thanks for the reminder - i had downloaded IMGBURN as well and hadn't gotten around to installing it - i just deleted the setup file. One reason i always went to CNET for downloads was i felt it was safe source. Looks like that's history

I'm starting to wonder if i shouldn't set up an older computer just to test downloads with. I spent 3-4 hours, first time around, going thru the procedure detailed on majorgeeks.com for the "google re-direct malware" till it hit me, overwriting the disk with a backup clone would be easier.

and fwiw, i ran DVD Identifier on one of my Verbatim DVD+R DL discs and got:

[DVD+R DL] - [DVD-ROM]
Mitsubishi Kagaku Media
[MKM]

Church AV Guy: "........... What do you all think?"

you've got me wondering should i be hoping the ones i ordered ARE counterfeits... but i will run that dvd identifier on them (when they finally show up) and report on how they record. Sorry, on a couple of levels, to hear you had such a negative result with those -R DL discs. I'm wondering if the format differs on DL discs, from maker to maker. I noticed on the DVD Identifier on the verbatim +R DL, that it was "DVD-ROM" format, though i'm illiterate as to what other formats exist and are used on DL discs.

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Last edited by larryccf; 09-01-2014 at 06:48 AM.
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post #75 of 110 Old 09-02-2014, 07:17 AM
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Originally Posted by larryccf View Post
For the hey of it i ran DVD Identifier on a verbatim dvd-r SL and it showed "Mitsubishi Chemical Corp" - ?????

and on a side note, as a heads up to folks, i went over to CNET to download the DVD Identifier program, and this is the 2nd time it's happened. 1st time, about 2 weeks ago downloading a similiar "free" software, some malware took over my computer right away, and did 2 things: 1) on web browsing it would keep "re-directing" me to a Yahoo search page, at first when i would clik on links (like links on this forum), then it would just redirect at will, spontaneously, without any link selection.
Quote:
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I had a similar thing happen when I downloaded IMGBURN from one of the major hosts that were listed My search function got hijacked and would direct me to sites I'm sure paid the hijacker.
I don't know the particulars of your situations but many free software packages from SourceForge, CNET and Softpedia come with Ad Supported installers. You have to pay close attention to the install process otherwise you will find yourself installing some 3rd part crap you don't want and that includes having your browser's start page and/or default search engine hijacked. Never-ever select "express install" or "default install", etc. Always select custom install so you can see what is going on. Once you get through with the install, the actual software is "clean" and doesn't have any adware installed. Whenever possible I go to the developers website to look for the download.

Having said that, I prefer MediaInfo to analyze video files. It has an Ad Supported installer that you have to pay attention to.

- kelson h

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post #76 of 110 Old 09-02-2014, 07:38 AM
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I don't know the particulars of your situations but many free software packages from SourceForge, CNET and Softpedia come with Ad Supported installers. You have to pay close attention to the install process otherwise you will find yourself installing some 3rd part crap you don't want and that includes having your browser's start page and/or default search engine hijacked. Never-ever select "express install" or "default install", etc. Always select custom install so you can see what is going on. Once you get through with the install, the actual software is "clean" and doesn't have any adware installed. Whenever possible I go to the developers website to look for the download.

Having said that, I prefer MediaInfo to analyze video files. It has an Ad Supported installer that you have to pay attention to.
agreed, but in this case it was actual malware. Emisoft, my virus protection, identified it on the 2nd occasion (searchprotection.exe), where on the first it was too new and apparently not listed or known as malware in the virus community. And even when it did identify it, it couldn't delete it, but did manage to quarantine it.

The crapware is a known issue, but the "yahoo search redirection", majorgeeks.com also recognizes or lists as a malware bot - they refer to it as " google redirection " ( http://forums.majorgeeks.com/showthread.php?t=230267 ), but same issue. In the case of my "yahoo redirection" malware, even flushing all the caches and running the 5 scan programs majorgeeks.com listed to run, didn't eliminate it. So that kind of went beyond crapware.

If you're not aware of majorgeeks.com, it's a heck of an asset (especially for illiterates like I am) - any virus, malware etc, just go to their support forum and you'll find it already asked about and 99% of the time, the complete procedure for removal. Even the ones that embed themselves down in the bios so that they re-infect after a reboot.

FWIW

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Last edited by larryccf; 09-02-2014 at 07:46 AM.
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post #77 of 110 Old 09-02-2014, 07:58 AM
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I'm wondering if the format differs on DL discs, from maker to maker. I noticed on the DVD Identifier on the verbatim +R DL, that it was "DVD-ROM" format, though i'm illiterate as to what other formats exist and are used on DL discs.
DVD-ROM designation is common for +R/DL format disks. Since they were not part of the original DVD spec, many older players reject them. A way around this has been to use burning software that allows the Book Type to be changed to DVD-ROM which gives compatibility to older players. Although all newer players support "+" media, it still seems to be common to change the Book Type to DVD ROM.

On the whole, I'm not impressed with DL media. I burned off 16 Verbatim 8X +DL disks at 4X (using ImgBurn) and still had 1 disk that wouldn't verify. I've thrown away about 6 disks so far with this burning project. When I recall that I spent >$1/disk, I find this failure rate to be most annoying. I almost never had a verify failure with T-Y 8X Premium DVD-R single layer and over the last 3 yr I've burned a couple hundred BD-R with only 1 failure that was my fault. I doubt I will mess with BD-R/DL any time soon. At $2.10/disk (compared to $0.52/disk for BD-R) I would get really frosted by a burn/verify failure.

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post #78 of 110 Old 09-06-2014, 03:29 PM
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Okay, I apologize that my report was a long time in coming, but it was more complex than I anticipated.


I recorded a movie that I wanted to burn to a DL disk, did all the editing and titling and everything was ready to go. I put in the THAT'S disk and initiated the copy. My EH55 made an unusually loud grinding sound, then proceeded to start the copy, but it only APPEARED to. The progress meter never left 0% done, and after a minute or two I got an error screen telling me that something was wrong with the disk and machine was going to shut down, which it did. Thinking that it just might have been the disk, I tried it again with another one, and it did the same thing. Now, I am wondering about my EH55, so I put in a VERB +R DL disk, and the movie copied with no grinding noise, and without a problem.


I am nothing if not persistent. Call that first experiment EH55-1. I moved the content (RAM disks) to EH55-2 and tried it again. I got similar results, but this time it actually started copying the content, and it progressed much more quickly than the +R disks. It reached the point of the layer change when it made the scary noise and the copy failed. Three failures in a row. It was looking grim.


I realized that in my other room, I had an EH55-3 which had some content I was going to put on a DL disk, so I pessimistically put one of these in the machine and it made a grinding noise, but not as bad, and started to make the copy. This time it finished. Really! So, I tried it again, and it worked--again!


So, here is where I stand. I don't know what to make of these things. Machines which never make a grinding noise, make it with these disks. Two of the three machines I tried using them in didn't work. The +R DLs never have given me a problem except that they won't play on some (many?) machines. I wonder what the issue is with these -R DL disks?


What do you all think?


Oh, and jjeff, there does appear to be a slightly tacky substance at the center of the disks. The noise is not related to the disk spinning but the laser seeking. I know the difference.

WooHoo......Got my TY -R DL disks in today (17 days fm date of order) - look identical to what was pictured on the japan amazon web - and DVD Identifier displayed same results as you posted up above

last night i dubbed a 2 hr 11 minute movie to a +R DL verbatim disk and got the same results as last time, first a msg telling me the EH-59 was going to have to "make a temporary copy" of the video to the HDD (where it already was), and then it burnt it to dvd, but it would not burn it in normal HS -- total time was the length of the movie plus 35 minutes to burn it to dvd.

earlier this afternoon, i burnt a 2 hr 14 minute movie to the TY -R DL disk, and it treated it like a -R SL disk, no messages, and burnt it in silent mode Hi-Speed, no grinding noises, nothing unusual. Total burn time was 14 minutes

Tested the dvd in three players and played fine in all three. I'm definitely going to order another spindle as i'll never remember where i got this one from next time, or even if the source will still be around

don't know if you have an EH-59 handy to try those disks on, if not and you want me to try one of your's on my machine, let me know and i'll pm you my address. IF. it plays bad on mine (ie with the noise and refusing to play, then you know at least that you got a bad batch and can send them back. If it plays fine on mine, then it's the machines involved (whether the model or software/firmware on them or whatever).

almost forgot - someone in the shipping dept has way too much time on their hands - found an orgami swan in the box with the disks



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post #79 of 110 Old 09-06-2014, 03:58 PM
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WooHoo......Got my TY -R DL disks in today (17 days fm date of order) - look identical to what was pictured on the japan amazon web - and DVD Identifier displayed same results as you posted up above

last night i dubbed a 2 hr 11 minute movie to a +R DL verbatim disk and got the same results as last time, first a msg telling me the EH-59 was going to have to "make a temporary copy" of the video to the HDD (where it already was), and then it burnt it to dvd, but it would not burn it in normal HS -- total time was the length of the movie plus 35 minutes to burn it to dvd.

earlier this afternoon, i burnt a 2 hr 14 minute movie to the TY -R DL disk, and it treated it like a -R SL disk, no messages, and burnt it in silent mode Hi-Speed, no grinding noises, nothing unusual. Total burn time was 14 minutes

Tested the dvd in three players and played fine in all three. I'm definitely going to order another spindle as i'll never remember where i got this one from next time, or even if the source will still be around

don't know if you have an EH-59 handy to try those disks on, if not and you want me to try one of your's on my machine, let me know and i'll pm you my address. IF. it plays bad on mine (ie with the noise and refusing to play, then you know at least that you got a bad batch and can send them back. If it plays fine on mine, then it's the machines involved (whether the model or software/firmware on them or whatever).

almost forgot - someone in the shipping dept has way too much time on their hands - found an orgami swan in the box with the disks



fwiw
Hello everyone, i've got one of Luke's eh55 units I just repaired for him and he sent the new discs to me also to test, no noise heard from the new drive. one thing i've noticed is these are full label white discs, I still have new old stock TY DL and they do not have full white label, I suspect that could be the culprit, ie grinding on some discs, because of the clamping mech in the drive has to attach to disc. their are six little tabs on it that support the disc to the spindle, there could be slippage making the noise. i've notice wear on some of dozens of drives I have.

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post #80 of 110 Old 09-06-2014, 05:47 PM
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this may help confirm what you're suspecting - i'm not a dvd mechanic but if what gives the disk it's motion (ie rpm) gives it by pushing or a rolling wheel contacting / driving the back (or white) side of the disk, then the issue may be that white side is too slick. Whatever that white coating is, it's slick, almost feels like teflon, actually surprised me.

I printed up a color label and it won't stick, the adhesive just wouldn't get a grip on that white surface. It would lift off the DVD just as soon as i let go - the "spring tension" in the paper was enough to pull it away - that sure seems to say zero adhesion grip

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post #81 of 110 Old 09-07-2014, 12:26 AM - Thread Starter
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Well that white (printable) surface sounds like it could be the problem, in which case, I'll give 'em another try moistening center of the DVD for "more traction".


Larry, you got a swan, I got a nice letter. Yours took 17 days, mine took 19. It sounds to me like the same shipping mechanism. I'm glad that they worked out for you. Yes, I have an EH59, and an EH69. I'll have to give them a try. I *THINK* that we will find the -R DL disks to be more compatible with the Panasonic DVD recorders than the +R DL Verbs.


I have had a REALLY busy week. Since I have been buried, there was no chance of doing more testing. Will resume when get a chance.

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Well that white (printable) surface sounds like it could be the problem, in which case, I'll give 'em another try moistening center of the DVD for "more traction".


Larry, you got a swan, I got a nice letter. Yours took 17 days, mine took 19. It sounds to me like the same shipping mechanism. I'm glad that they worked out for you. Yes, I have an EH59, and an EH69. I'll have to give them a try. I *THINK* that we will find the -R DL disks to be more compatible with the Panasonic DVD recorders than the +R DL Verbs.


I have had a REALLY busy week. Since I have been buried, there was no chance of doing more testing. Will resume when get a chance.
These may do the trick....... they have less slip i've got these. http://www.amazon.com/520-Compulabel.../dp/B0061MKOFC

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These may do the trick....... they have less slip i've got these. http://www.amazon.com/520-Compulabel.../dp/B0061MKOFC
they might if they'll stick - like i said, when i put my label on, as soon as i let go, just the "spring tension" in the paper wanting to curl slightly upward was enough force to lift them off the disc - that's when i felt the disc and couldn't believe how slick the surface was.

Church AV Guy - does moistening them remove the "slickness"?

I wonder if TY makes these in non-printable form

never mind, just tested one, and yeah wiping with a moistened finger does seem to remove the slickness - but will have to wait a bit to see if it lost it permanently after it's totally dried out. I don't think you'd want to put that disc in the recorder with any moisture remaining - the heat from burning would help it vaporize fast and disperse it through out the recorder. Considering the dust from the laser burning thru the coating, combined with that moisture could lead to issues, at least difficult to clean issues if not others.

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they might if they'll stick - like i said, when i put my label on, as soon as i let go, just the "spring tension" in the paper wanting to curl slightly upward was enough force to lift them off the disc - that's when i felt the disc and couldn't believe how slick the surface was.

Church AV Guy - does moistening them remove the "slickness"?

I wonder if TY makes these in non-printable form

never mind, just tested one, and yeah wiping with a moistened finger does seem to remove the slickness - but will have to wait a bit to see if it lost it permanently after it's totally dried out. I don't think you'd want to put that disc in the recorder with any moisture remaining - the heat from burning would help it vaporize fast and disperse it through out the recorder. Considering the dust from the laser burning thru the coating, combined with that moisture could lead to issues, at least difficult to clean issues if not others.
That moisture will not harm the drive trust me.

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I've been doing it for years with no adverse side effects.
So are you guys saying the Ty DLs don't have the slightly tactile disc bottom? That would be disappointing as that feature was the main reason I liked Ty DVDs, they'd work where other discs wouldn't, even on a slightly dirty spindle that needed to be cleaned.
And on the white top, isn't it a flat white that you can print on? Thats the printable discs that I'm most familiar with and those(the Sony ones I had) actually tended to grip the spindle a bit better than a regular lacquer disc. I did have a spindle of Printco discs a long time ago that were white and shinny but I didn't think they were for printing and they were slippery.
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I've been doing it for years with no adverse side effects.
So are you guys saying the Ty DLs don't have the slightly tactile disc bottom? That would be disappointing as that feature was the main reason I liked Ty DVDs, they'd work where other discs wouldn't, even on a slightly dirty spindle that needed to be cleaned.
And on the white top, isn't it a flat white that you can print on? Thats the printable discs that I'm most familiar with and those(the Sony ones I had) actually tended to grip the spindle a bit better than a regular lacquer disc. I did have a spindle of Printco discs a long time ago that were white and shinny but I didn't think they were for printing and they were slippery.
Are you saying you've been wiping them with a moistened towel or whatever? My concern is the moisture or repeated moisture evaporation events, basically just creating a high humidity environment inside the unit, would act as a binding agent on the laser dust - it wouldn't take a lot to coat the laser but if you've gotten away with it, go for it.

They are described as "printable" so yeah, they're as you describe, a flat white - but what i don't understand, i took a new one and it felt slick, not as slick as i described earlier. Then after dubbing a movie at HS, it then felt real slick, so the heat must be doing something to the coating, bringing some compound in the coating to the surface.

As to the "tactile" hub - just looked at one and the underside area around the spindle is glossy clear plastic, topside is the same flat slick white as the printable surface

Unless TY offers these in non-printable form, i'm going to have to find a disc printer with decent resolution

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post #87 of 110 Old 09-08-2014, 06:50 AM
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They are described as "printable" so yeah, they're as you describe, a flat white - but what i don't understand, i took a new one and it felt slick, not as slick as i described earlier. Then after dubbing a movie at HS, it then felt real slick, so the heat must be doing something to the coating, bringing some compound in the coating to the surface.
Can these disks be written on with a Sharpie Permanent marker (alcohol based)?
Does the ink lay or does it bead up? After it's dry can it be rubbed off with your finger?

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Can these disks be written on with a Sharpie Permanent marker (alcohol based)?
Does the ink lay or does it bead up? After it's dry can it be rubbed off with your finger?
Just wrote on one with a "Marks-A-Lot" and no issues, it accepted the ink, and doesn't rub off (a few seconds after writing) - I couldn't see any sign of the ink beading up on the surface.

For my own education - is there or are there any issues, normally, with using a sharpie pen on a "printable disc label" - what i was concerned about is the alcohol penetrating the plastic down to the bottom side and affecting recording ability?

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post #89 of 110 Old 09-08-2014, 07:21 AM
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Just wrote on one with a "Marks-A-Lot" and no issues, it accepted the ink, and doesn't rub off (a few seconds after writing) - I couldn't see any sign of the ink beading up on the surface.
That's a good sign.

Quote:
For my own education - is there or are there any issues, normally, with using a sharpie pen on a "printable disc label" - what i was concerned about is the alcohol penetrating the plastic down to the bottom side and affecting recording ability?
Not with alcohol-based markers. From 10yr experience of writing on DVD-R with a Sharpie Permanent marker (alcohol based) and 4yr of writing on BD-R with same -- no issues whatsoever. And on top of that, I always mark my disks before I burn them and my disks are all shiny Logo tops without any "printable" layer so I'm writing directly on the upper plastic disk.

In fact, if you make a mistake writing and don't wait too long for the ink to set, you can "erase" the Sharpie Marker with iso-propyl alcohol (IPA) with no adverse effects on the disk. I usually use a Q-Tip to just erase the small part I screw up and then after an hour I'll remark the disk.

A marker with a more volatile solvent can cause problems with the poly-carbonate disk. Nail-polish remover (acetone) will shatter a poly-carbonate disk (a process known as solvent crazing) -- makes a great demonstration for kids.

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thanks - we've done some work with polymers and resins fabricating prototype fuel tanks. First tank that i was involved with, i was surprised at how few epoxy resins and polymers were rated for use with alcohol levels above 2-3%. So when you say you can correct a mistake if you wipe it with Iso quick enough, that tells me the alcohol is absorbing down into the plastic. But if you've never seen a recording issue it's probably not going down very deep

appreciate the response

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