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Need help with dvd recorder buying options

3K views 72 replies 16 participants last post by  Harry Kerry 
#1 ·
I hope I'm posting this in the right forum.

I need some advice regarding dvd recorders. I've been searching the net to try and find the answers I need, but to be honest, I've gotten a headache from all the tech talk and abbreviations that I don't understand. I've never used a dvd recorder or even burned a dvd, so I'm in need of more basic information.

Dish is forcing customers that have older dvr/pvr's to upgrade by the end of May or lose their service, as Dish will no longer support those. My pvr, which I believe is a 508 D, is an older one, so there is no USB output on there to plug in an external hd, which leaves me with the option of a dvd recorder. I've seen both pros and cons to buying a dvd/vhs combo recorder, but honestly, vhs tapes are something I can worry about converting later on down the road, so a combo is not a priority for me right now. My only concern at this time is being able to transfer what's on my pvr to dvd, so that I won't lose the content in May. I would like the dvd's to be playable in both dvd players and computers.

I've looked on Walmart's website, but some of them are out of stock (though, I don't know about local store stock right now). I would strongly prefer not to buy from an individual seller on Amazon, etc., as returns and customer service are much easier to do if I can take it back to the store myself. So I would like to buy from a mass merchandiser/electronic store, etc.

Here are the things that I'm stuck on right now....

1. What brand and models are the most affordable (but good quality/features) for what I need? It would be preferable to have something that would allow for creating chapters or editing commercials out easier, etc., but I don't want to spend hundreds of dollars either. I also would prefer not to buy re-furbished. However, is open box usually ok?

2. I only have one "chance" to get these recordings saved before the boxes are switched, meaning whatever they're recorded on needs to be able to be edited, re-copied, etc., so that I can take the time to make backup copies in the future and/or edit the recordings in video software or something (if I wanted to delete scenes, etc.). What are my options?

I will probably have more questions later, when it's not after 3 am, but any advice in general regarding this situation that can be given would be more appreciated than you know.

Thanks so much for any help!
 
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#2 ·
IMO, a Maggie from Walmart, even the lowest end model, will work fine for your purposes. Panny would be better, but is much harder to find these days. A Maggie with a hard drive will make it largely unnecessary to transfer to DVD unless you want to keep these recordings forever.

I do have some advice though, having been down this road before. I don't know how many recordings you want to save, but it could be a huge undertaking sine you have to record in real time, tying up your Dish box for many, many hours, not to mention many, many more hours editing. It would be well worth taking some steps to minimize what you're about to do.

- Carefully consider if you will ever really watch the recording again
- See if it will be re-broadcast in the near future so you can simply record it again
- See if it's available on Netflix, Hulu or some other streaming service or site (paying for a month or two of said service is more than worth your time spent archiving)
- See if you could rent it from Redbox (DVD cloning goes much faster than recording in real time)

Realize that none of your DVD recordings will be in HD, which new ones on a new Dish DVR would be in HD.

If you have a computer which you could locate nearby, a video capture card might be an easier option.
 
#3 ·
A Maggie? Do you mean Magnavox? Sorry, I'm limited on my abbreviations knowledge.

Well, I would prefer to have something that would allow me to keep the recordings as long as possible, yes, just in case there is something I'd like to have for years to come. I assume DVD is my best option for that?

Yeah, some recordings I'm not concerned about that I can buy a DVD of, but there are some other things that I can't buy a DVD of, that I'd like to keep (like something that aired on TV maybe once and isn't easy to find online). As for the hours spent, that's not a huge issue at the moment, as I could work on it a little each day or something. Video editing would only be if I choose to mess with that later on down the road, maybe if I get bored or something. But it'd be nice to have the option available, if I choose to do some editing. I've seen that some recorders will let you sort of customize it as you go, which would be my preference (if it's affordable).

Even though they're not in HD, it should still be pretty good quality to view on a computer/the same TV through a DVD player, right?

I'm not sure how to use a video card to do that?
 
#4 · (Edited)
There aren't really any "options" left to consider: DVD recorders have all but disappeared from the marketplace. Other than a handful of Magnavox units (and their Toshiba clones), nothing is available to buy new.

You also need to carefully consider mdavej's warning about picture quality: depending on your TV size, and the recording mode used in your DiSH recordings, the copies you make to DVD can (and probably will) look significantly worse, to the point you can't enjoy viewing them at all. If you have a 42" tv, and you have grown spoiled by full HDTV recording/viewing quality, PVR copies made to a DVD recorder could be very disappointing. This is especially true of long movies that run more than two hours: the DVD recorders available today offer no speeds between 2-hour and 4-hour mode. This means a 134-minute movie would need to be dubbed to DVD in 4-hour mode, which often looks just plain bad. Making things still worse, the DVD copies will probably be letterboxed with black borders all around.

Another "gotcha" to be aware of: some recordings in your satellite PVR might be copy protected. This means if you connect the PVR to a DVD recorder, the DVD recorder may refuse to engage record mode if it senses this "ant-record" signal. Should this occur on more than a few of your PVR recordings, you'll need to spend another $90 on a video filter box accessory like The Grex. The filter connects between PVR and DVD recorder: it forces the DVD recorder to allow recording, but can also cause picture quality to drop down a bit more.

Unfortunately there isn't any nice, clean, easy way to preserve the contents of a cable/satellite PVR: for all practical purposes, HDTV recordings are trapped in these boxes forever (so if you have to trade the box in or it breaks down, the recordings are lost).

DVD recorders make excellent recordings directly from off-air broadcasts, that can come reasonably close to HD watchability. But dubbing existing recordings off a PVR is not their strong suit. I'd suggest you buy the cheapest Magnavox or Toshiba you can find, and limit your DVD dubs to just the recordings you have no chance of replacing in any other way.
 
#5 ·
Do you have any recommendations of which specific models to look into? I've looked at some, but I'm still confused on which ones to consider, such as the difference between two Toshiba ones on Kmart's website. What price range am I likely looking at? What about the ones that have the customization options (such as chapter titles, etc.)?

What do you mean by recording mode? Do you just mean however the PVR recorded them or a setting I used during recording? I don't have HD service right now (no HD channels, etc.), and the TV screen itself is probably a little more than 24 inches diagonally (it's a CRT screen). What are your thoughts on the quality in that situation?

Most of the stuff I want to transfer to DVD is an hour at most, unless I put more than one thing on a DVD. Which, I would rather use another DVD and have better quality than to put too many things on one DVD and lose quality.

As for copy protected, none of the recordings are from premium channels, movie channels, or on demand. Most things I would want to save are from the main broadcast channels (ABC, NBC, FOX, etc.) and maybe a few regular cable channels (TNT, CMT, etc.)...is this usually an issue with those?
 
#6 · (Edited)
Yikes: the availability situation is even more dire than I thought. I hadn't actually checked the various dealer websites since before the holidays: it now appears the mfr of Magnavox/Toshiba recorders has stopped production again. They do this every 18 months or so, then people start panic buying, so dealers jack the prices up sky high as stock dwindles. The mfr may or may not start producing recorders again: last time they went into a coma, they didn't start making them again for many months.

There are only three Magnavox models and two Toshibas, which overlap brands so really there are only three units left on the market. The most expensive Magnavox includes a broadcast tuner and hard drive, and is functionally similar to a PVR. But it is overkill for your purposes, costing upwards of $350 (currently $449 and up because stock is running out). The second most expensive model is the VHS+DVD unit with no tuner, this used to cost around $200 from either Magnavox or Toshiba. If you don't need the VHS, then you should go for the cheapest DVD-only versions. The DVD-only Magnavox is long gone, leaving the Toshiba DR-430 as the last survivor. The 430 used to sell for $99- $119 but apparently they're now out of stock everywhere.

The only recorder that seems to still be in stock anywhere is the Toshiba DR-620 DVD/VHS. Because it has the Toshiba name, it is overpriced at $250+, esp if all you want is a dubbing device for your satellite PVR. I would suggest you skip the Toshiba and opt for the near-identical Funai ZV427FX version, a few are still available direct from Amazon at only $159. Funai is the company that actually makes the Magnavox and Toshiba. I'd strongly recommend you buy it off Amazon ASAP before they sell out.

Regarding picture quality, it could go either way for you. Old-school CRT televisions hide a lot of sins: but what looks great on your 25" CRT will look awful if dies and you are eventually forced to buy a new flat screen. Since your DiSH PVR is not high def, copies made to DVD will be a bit smeary. Your PVR, like VHS vcrs and DVD recorders, has "slow" and "fast" recording speeds. "Slow" speeds fit more recordings on the PVR (or a tape or DVD) but sacrifice quality.

DVD recorders can be set to fit 1, 2, 4 or 6 hours onto a blank DVD. It is usually the best compromise to use the 2-hour speed. The 1-hour speed isn't always dramatically better: it depends on the material. The 4-hour speed on current Funai-Magnavox-Toshiba recorders will be way too blurry for dubbing from your PVR: use 4-hr only if you can't help it. Blank DVDs are cheap enough for you to experiment, and see which speed works best for you. Anything dubbed to a DVD recorder (instead of directly recorded off-air) will play poorly on a PC screen.

Forget editing. It is only truly feasible if the DVD recorder has a hard drive. Since the only such unit left on the market was the $400 Magnavox 557, and it seems to be discontinued, that ship has sailed. You can do simple editing by using any DVD recorder's pause button as you play your PVR into it (to cut out commercials etc). But timing is crucial, so this can be tricky. You may not want to bother.

Copy protection can appear on ANY channel fed thru a satellite box: more common on premium or mid-tier channels but it does pop up more often than you'd think on "free" channels. You won't know until you try copying to a DVD recorder. Odds are you won't have an issue, but you might.
 
#7 ·
Yikes: the availability situation is even more dire than I thought. I hadn't actually checked the various dealer websites since before the holidays: it now appears the mfr of Magnavox/Toshiba recorders has stopped production again.
Perhaps it's truly the end this time. Amazon is listing 3rd party sellers of the 557 starting at $500 -- joke.
Search walmarts site for "magnavox" and you get nothing. A stale direct link to the 557 at walmart simply says not available.

At this point I would suggest to the OP that they would be better off with a Hauppauge HD PVR capture box on their PC than wasting money on a DVD recorder.
 
#10 ·
Carrie,


All of the above offer good advice, good things to think about. Personally, I would not consider a dvd recorder (DVDR) that did not have a hard disk drive (HDD).


It all depends upon what you want to do with it. Record, watch, MAYBE copy to disk; no editing except maybe dropping commercials, then the Magnavox with its built-in digital over-the-air tuner for around $250 used or $350 new would be a good choice, except that you've read they are no longer available. But their successors will probably be available in a few months.


If, however, you may want to do some editting, then the $400 Panasonic EH59 from bhphotovideo is the recorder of choice, or its slightly larger capacity sister, the EH69 for $60 more. At the moment, those prices include shipping.


I must confess a personal bias, but I've seen a statement that the Panasonic has the best editing capability of any dvd recorder on the planet. I agree. If you want to do editting on the computer, talk to someone else. The Panasonic has a "Playlist" feature which I highly recommend for editting. Editting in the Playlist makes no changes to the source you have copied onto the hard drive. Playlist Deletes or other "oops" are not fatal. The source is unchanged. You can group, resequence, use the same source scene in several playlists.


The dvd recorders being discussed here are SD, standard definition, but I've read on this forum that there is very little signal loss between 2 hours up to 4 hours on a dvd. All the DVDR's here have the standard RCA (yellow-white-red) and s-video
inputs and outputs, HDMI out, plus the Panasonic EH59/EH69 have the European Scart Input-Output. Happy Hunting!
 
#11 · (Edited)
[...]If, however, you may want to do some editting, then the $400 Panasonic EH59 from bhphotovideo is the recorder of choice, or its slightly larger capacity sister, the EH69 for $60 more. At the moment, those prices include shipping.
I agree the import Panasonics are top-class recorders and may still be a viable option for enthusiast users. But I stopped recommending them here for two reasons: the price has escalated to a point where the complete lack of USA warranty or repair options (not to mention lack of tuner) could be troubling, and the type of person coming to this forum for recommendations in recent months has shifted from "video enthusiast" to "disinterested casual consumer looking for a basic $99 recorder."


The dvd recorders being discussed here are SD, standard definition, but I've read on this forum that there is very little signal loss between 2 hours up to 4 hours on a dvd.
Respectfully disagree. To some extent, this was true with the "classic" high-end DVD recorders of the past (all discontinued six years ago), and still true with the import Panasonic EH59 or EH69. Those models used a recording strategy that optimized picture sharpness as much as possible up to 4-hour mode. And that optimized full-res 4-hr mode still worked much better with off-air tuner signals than the satellite-compressed SD PVR dubs the OP is dealing with.

But there is no "selection" of recorders in the 2015 market: you either buy a $400 grey-market import Panasonic, or one of the handful of cheap lookalike Funai/Magnavox/Toshiba units. Most people opt for the latter based on cost and the warranty/return convenience of familiar chain stores. However, the Funai-based recorders do NOT have the same optimized full-res 4-hr speed of the Panasonic EH59/69. They instead use a half-resolution video encoding strategy that reduces picture quality at speeds longer than 2 hrs per DVD.

A Funai-based recorder running at the 2.5, 3, or 4 hr speeds has noticeably poorer picture quality than it does in 1 or 2 hr mode (esp if used to dub from an SD satellite PVR). One could often get away with using 4-hr mode on a Panasonic, but it isn't recommended with the bargain brand recorders.
 
#17 ·
Sorry K I meant this for the poster.
Apparently it won't alert me to new messages in the thread unless I login after the most recent alert, ugh.

I tried to PM you back, but it says I have to have 15 posts to use the messaging.

I don't know if you usually post this information or not (if not, I guess I'll need to find more things to say to reach 15 posts lol), but can you give me an estimate of the lowest price range you usually offer for what I need? Do you ever sell on Amazon?
 
#22 ·
Editting on the Panasonic eliminates almost entirely any need for editing on a pc. If you insist on PC editing, forget the Panasonic.


The two big limitations of Panasonic editing:
1. Not frame accurate, you may lose up to 1/2 second at your edit point deletes
2. Cannot overlay audio and video independently.


The big advantage of editting on the DVDR is the source material is already on the HDD. Edit and put out a finished dvd. No need to copy to a dvd to re-copy into a pc.

My personal experience: I had a bad experience with PC editing back in 2002; had to do the job with my Hi-8 tape vcr's.


In 2004, I heard about Panasonic's dvd editting VCR, the E100H, and have been using DVDR ever since and never looked back.


Oh yes, there was an occasion where I had to replace some missing video without losing the sound on a wedding video I did a year ago. I gave that to my son to fix for me, on a pc.


For the past couple of weeks I have been struggling with the learning curve on a pc program VideoReDo TVSuite5. The reason is changing dvd format to something a low power digital tv transmitter can use. The result is a high quality product, but getting there has been a challenge. I've not found the user instructions to be very user-friendly.
 
#25 ·
So the easiest thing to do is just make sure it has an editing feature? The first limitation that you mentioned --- does that mean you can just learn to time it a little differently than it appears you should on the screen or is the 1/2 second inevitable? As for the 2nd limitation, do you just mean you can't break it up like you can in video editing software? If so, that's fine. Honestly, the only reason I even considered editing them was to take out commercials. If the recorder can do that, then great. And yeah, I should be able to keep everything under 2 hours. Are these dvd's usually easily ripped onto the computer for digital files or does it take a lot of conversion software processes, etc. ?
 
#28 · (Edited)
Unless you already have some strong experience owning a particular brand or model, and know how to repair them, it is a really bad idea to shop random second-hand recorders on eBay. There are multiple "gotchas" to look out for: they all have one or more serious problems that they either shipped with new or develop with age (not for nothing did these products completely fail in North America).

Amazon seems to have restocked the Funai DVD/VHS recorder I recommended earlier in this thread. To repeat my advice: RUN to buy this unit ASAP while you can still get it brand-new with the Amazon exchange/refund support. At $159, it is the cheapest DVD recorder you can still buy new from a legit dealer.

I know, I know: you're looking for a bargain second-hand recorder you can buy for pin money, you don't need the VHS, etc etc. Forget that, and understand there is NO "bargain" in a used recorder you pick up for $50. It is a sellers market right now: believe me when I tell you, if a used recorder is listed on eBay for less than $100, there's something wrong with it that the seller is hiding. eBay closing prices are pretty consistent at well over $100 for DVD recorders guaranteed to still work, and if you're gonna go over $100 anyway I say get a brand new one backed by Amazon with USA warranty.

Note also, the vast majority of used DVD recorders on eBay priced at or under $100 are old models from the 2003-2007 era. These tended to be troublesome when new, don't get any better with age, and could die on you a day after your return period expires. Sure, you could take a chance and maybe get lucky: eBay backs up buyers if they get a lemon. But boxing these up to ship back is a pain and not worth the effort. You could go thru three or four $50 recorders before you get one that works.

If you want to play the recorder lottery, try to get one of the last made DVD-only recorders like Toshiba DR-420 or DR-430. Identical recorders (with uglier cosmetics) were sold under the Magnavox and Funai brands, with gibberish model numbers nobody can remember. Just about everything else you'll find listed "cheap" is notoriously unreliable crap. In the heyday of recorders, there were premium models with hard drives, and junkers without. People now either hold on to the premium models, or they're asking $400 and up for them- anything you see cheap is a junker (esp Sony, Samsung, SVO, RCA, silver JVCs, many LGs).

$99 DVD recorders are nothing like $99 VCRs, many of which are still fully operational after 20 years. Lower-end DVD recorders, with few exceptions, tended to develop major problems or die altogether within two years of purchase. We're now 8 years out from the debut of many eBay "bargains" - they're dead or dying. Don't waste your time or money on a sure loser.

Get the Funai ZV427FX4 from Amazon, or don't bother. That sounds harsh, but its really the only passable option left on the table for approx $150. The Funai is identical to the very popular Toshiba DVR-620, which goes for double or triple the Funai's price (if you can even find a new one). They rolled out of the same factory, the Funai just isn't as pretty to look at. Of course, if you can afford a reconditioned Panasonic from mickinct (or a new Panasonic EH59), those are more solid and durable than any Funai/Toshiba/Magnavox.
 
#64 ·
Get the Funai ZV427FX4 from Amazon, or don't bother. That sounds harsh, but its really the only passable option left on the table for approx $150. The Funai is identical to the very popular Toshiba DVR-620, which goes for double or triple the Funai's price (if you can even find a new one). They rolled out of the same factory, the Funai just isn't as pretty to look at. Of course, if you can afford a reconditioned Panasonic from mickinct (or a new Panasonic EH59), those are more solid and durable than any Funai/Toshiba/Magnavox.
I recently heard great things about the Funai ZV427FX4 elsewhere and came to this forum to check opinions. This is great info you've shared here, CitiBear, thank you - exactly what I'm looking for. Most of the info I see is now a few months old, so I'm curious, does anybody have any new opinions on the durability of this unit? Thanks!
 
#30 · (Edited)
Technical Info: Video Frames

Technical information for anyone interested:
.
I read the first 3 returned LINKs (all 3 options above return the same information - just using different methods) to refresh my memory. ;)

Forum software doesn't like tiny urls. :eek:
 
#31 ·
Actually, yes, the delays can be eliminated if seamless Playback is selected in the dvd recoder "Setup" AND the copy to dvd is made in real-time.


High-speed copy to the dvd will contain these momentary "freezes" and original chapter marks and thumbnails. Real-time copies lose the thumbnails and resets chapter marks about every five minutes. (On the EH55, I'm assuming the EH59 is similar.)


And Yes, if the computer has a dvd player, all dvd's are pretty much compatible except for the dvd-ram; not all players accept the -rams.
 
#32 · (Edited)
Thank you for the information in the posts above.

I'm sorry for my sudden absence, but I got very discouraged after another chance of a job went out the window. Although I'm still working on the job thing, in March, I was awarded a Visa gift card that has enough on it to hopefully help me get a recorder.

I'm still in the market, but this weekend, I came across an opportunity I wanted to get your opinion on. Someone within driving distance of me is selling a good condition Funai SV2000 (not sure which W model it is yet, but it doesn't have the VHS slot) for a very fair price. They've only used it to play dvd's, not record them, so considering the very fair price, I'm willing to take a chance on it.

What I'm wanting to know is....what are your thoughts on this model? I don't think it has a hard drive, but I read one review online that said these SV2000's can record live tv/from the dvr (I have an older dish dvr), unlike the "newer" models, which give the copyright errors. Is this true? Someone also said to use only the Sony DVD's with them (I can't find the page in my history that said which model), that they had trouble with the other brands working.

Are the editing features on it good, like with chapters, titles, commercials, pausing the recording to fast forward past commercials, etc.?

Just as a reminder from my earlier posts: Since I don't think iti's HDD, I'm ok if it doesn't transfer directly/burn directly from the dvr, as long as it can record live tv in good quality on the dvd. I won't use the timer features. Anytime I would want to burn something to dvd, I would just put it on the dvr and then record it to the dvd later, while it's playing on screen. I don't have to burn it while I'm not home or out of the room, or while it's recording live tv to the dvr (I can do the dvd part later).

Will this model work with the Hopper too? If I need to use DVD+RW for this player, will those usually work in PC's and most other dvd players too? I wasn't sure if that's the same issue with the DVD-RAM mentioned in the post above or not.

Does it plug into only the tv or does it need to be able to plug into the dvr? I wasn't sure since I don't think it has a hard drive.
 
#33 ·
The Funai SV2000 is an old budget model, and like all old budget recorders, not a particularly good bet second hand (they weren't such a great bet when new, either). If the seller is someone you know and trust, and you believe it really is in mint condition, it might be worth risking $50 but I wouldn't gamble a penny more. It is simply too old: the durability lifespan on these things starts ebbing the minute they're taken out of the box, whether "heavily used" or not.

The owner says they only used it for playback, but that doesn't make much difference: the mechanics and laser were still wearing down over the years (albeit, recording is more stressful to the laser). Also there is no guarantee that it will record protected content from your satellite DVR: it might, or it might not. You may still wind up needing to buy a video filter box, which will likely cost more than the recorder. Apparently it can use any disc format except RAM, most Funais work best with DVD-R (or +R) for permanent recordings and DVD+RW for reusables.

Your editing questions depend on your end goal: do you want permanent durable DVDs? If so, the SV2000 has zero editing options (other than riding the pause button to cut commercials in real time as you copy from the DVR). Do you want temporary DVDs that you will eventually erase and re-use after viewing? The SV2000 has basic editing features with DVD+RW, but those aren't as archival as regular use-once -R or +R.

The tuner in the SV2000 is the old obsolete analog version. It can't tune any current off-air broadcasts, but might still get some cable channels and can probably tune the channel 3/4 coax TV output of your satellite DVR. How you connect it depends on several factors, including what kind of TV you have (old glass tube screen, or modern flat screen? Is the DVR/Hopper an HDTV version with HDMI, or standard def only?). Between the coax connections and line inputs/outputs, you should be OK once you sort things out.
 
#34 · (Edited)
I just found out it's a WV10D6, made in 2006.

It's like half the price you mentioned, so it's worth the gamble, but I just want to make sure, that if it works good, it's still usable for what I need.

I don't think they used it for a ton of dvd watching, because they had other dvd players (the recorder was a gift), but it was used some. It seems they kept it in good condition though. That's a good point about the lasers that I didn't think about.

It's an older dish model (it doesn't have a USB port on the back). Not sure which Hopper, yet, as it's a forced company upgrade. Do you have a recommendation on which one to get?

I'm ok with deleting commercials pausing and unpausing, if it works decently smooth to do it that way. I don't mind watching it while I record it to dvd. So it's hard to say if this player will record live tv or not? Does it just depend on what type of dvr you have?

I would like dvd's that are at least semi-permanent. I mean, some of these things, may not be watched very often in say 10 years or so, but may be watched a couple of times before then. They're not home videos, so if I could get a limited number of views for them for several years, I would be satisfied. So the R ones won't allow you to add chapters? If not, that's ok, as long as I can pause between sections sort of smoothly. I don't think I"ll put anything longer than an hour on the dvd's. Maybe 2 hours at the most. And I won't put multiple types of programs on the same dvd...I guess that could help to prevent having to use chapters. Chapters is different from just pausing and unpausing before and after commercials, right?

When it comes to converting VHS tapes to dvd, once I get a job, I'll try to get a recorder with a VHS slot (or only a VHS slot), if I don't get one now. The ones with only a VHS slot seem to be a little easier to find (and cheaper) than the DVD ones, since a lot of people use them for home movies. With those, I would want longer lasting dvd's than what I'm recording off the dvr.

I have CRT "round" screen tv (not completely flat).
 
#35 · (Edited)
At that price, a used Funai SV2000 is worth a try. If it is in good condition it might give you a year or more use. The low-end Funai models tend to either break quickly or last a freakishly long time: I have seen both cases happen with family and friends who bought them. Since this particular unit appears to have worked well for a few years already, chances are it will continue to do so for you.

Re dvd "types" and editing: yes, if you want to keep recordings for an indefinite period then write-once DVD-R or DVD+R is preferred over DVD+/-RW. Since you seem willing to ride the pause button to cut out commercials as you dub from DiSH DVR to dvd recorder, you'll be fine. The recorder will automatically create a chapter stop each time you press and release pause to skip a commercial. Alternately, if you decide not to bother editing the ads out, the recorder will automatically insert chapter stops every ten minutes.

This model is optimized for the "SP" recording speed, which nominally fits two hours per dvd. Funai recorders generally squeeze in a bit more than other brands (approx 128 mins). The picture quality at SP is similar to other recorders. You can record at the HQ (one hour per dvd) speed if you prefer, but that is generally wasteful when dubbing shows from a DVR (HQ works best with sports or flashy music concerts broadcast over the air).

Whether it will record "live" TV and/or any particular channel or recording from your DisH DVR is an open question that can't be answered until you try it. The DiSH boxes have some degree of protection on some channels, whether all are protected depends on the specific box, your service plan, and your service area. Most people find their dvd recorder will work 70% of the time. You may or may not later find a need for a protection filter box like The Grex, which costs about $90. There is no such thing as a dvd recorder that is 100% impervious to protection signals: some are just more hypersensitive or trigger-happy than others, but they ALL will refuse to record if they detect a legit protection signal.

Since you have a CRT television at the moment, you can tell DiSH you want a standard definition (not HDTV) box when they force the swap. This may or may not save you money: if the monthly fee is about the same, opt for an HDTV box because you won't have to change it again later if you ever buy a modern flat screen TV. Your TV will need to have a "line input" connection on the front or back for the DVD recorder: the Funai will not play dvds over channel 3/4 to the television like the DiSH DVR or your old VHS.

You would connect the "line outputs" (yellow video-red and white audio) to the "line inputs" of the dvd recorder, then the "line outputs" of the dvd recorder to the "line input" of your TV. The coax TV output of the DiSH box can remain connected to your TV (assuming it already is). When you simply want to watch DiSH "live" or the DiSH DVR, set the TV to channel 3 or 4 as usual. When you want to watch a dvd, or use the dvd recorder to copy from the DiSH box, switch the TV to "line input" and turn on the dvd recorder. Make sure the recorder is always set to "line input" and not any tuner channel (the SV2000 tuner is obsolete and won't work today).

You don't need a combo recorder to copy VHS: you can connect any random VCR to any dvd recorder to do that. You press "play" on the VHS and "Record" on the dvd, just as if you were dubbing from the DiSH box. Nice clean VCRs should be available from Craigs List or Goodwill shops for $20 or so. Or ask everyone you know if they have a VCR they no longer use: most people do, and would be happy to give it to you free or cheaply just to get it out of their house.
 
#37 ·
What are the pros and cons of DVD-R and DVD+R? Should I use Sony, Verbatim, or ?

I didn't know it did an automatic insert every 10 minutes. Are the chapter inserts only there for skipping purposes if you decide to use the button to skip? If you don't skip anything, even though the chapter inserts are there, it will play without pausing when watching afterward, correct? Dumb question, I know, but since I haven't made a dvd before, I wanted to make sure.

Oh so there are a lot of factors as to whether it will record live tv or not, I see. So since this one doesn't have a hard drive, if it doesn't record live tv, I won't be able to use it to record what's on the dvr, correct? If it doesn't record live tv, I would have to find one with a hard drive?

Since it's a forced equipment upgrade, I'm not sure about monthly pricing after the upgrade. I will look into it, though. So, other than obviously wanting HDTV, if the price didn't change, no special things to look for between particular Hopper models? Though, I'm guessing they would force you to pay for HD service if you got an HDTV. Can you get HDTV with CRT or is it only for flat screens?

I know it has the colored connections on front, where you can plug a portable dvd player or game console into it. So as long as I can plug in a game console (or whatever) into the front of the tv (or back), I have all the ports I need to use the player? Since you said the dvr will just remain plugged into the tv like it should be. Is switching to line input just hitting the input button to turn it to the black screen? I'm guessing I should be able to do this with the dvd recorder remote or on the front of the recorder, as to switching it on the recorder.

Oh I can just record the vhs to dvd by plugging into the recorder and hitting play? I didn't think of that. Thank you. Might save me from having to buy another recorder, if this one works. I'm guessing I need to have the recorder plugged into the tv at the same time also?

I have much more experience with computers than I do video and audio equipment, so I apologize for the basic questions.
 
#36 ·
I have two Panasonic DMR EA18s and two Toshiba 430s, one still brand new in the sealed box I like the EA18 because it seems to record better and the title editing is not as good as the Panasonic - just my opinions. I have the Comcast DVR so I never saw a compelling reason for a DVD recorder with a hard drive.
 
#41 · (Edited)
The final Panasonic EZ models were arguably a step up from similar Funai units, depending whether you fancied using RAM discs. But they were a bit overpriced at introduction (never mind second hand today- yikes) and not as reliable as the previous Panasonic ES series. The EZ 17/18 (DVD) and 37/38 (DVD/VHS) "tunerless" models were closer to ES reliability, because they lacked the buggy EZ tuner/timer circuit. If a miracle occurs, and one can be found in clean condition under $200, they are a good second-hand option for those willing to spend the money. Personally, if my budget were over $200, I would forget "second hand" and just buy a new import model Panasonic EH59 DVD/HDD.

Re the Toshiba 430: this was simply another in an endless parade of generic Funai budget models. Minor cosmetic differences aside, all the Funai-sourced DVD-only and DVD/VHS combos under the Magnavox, Toshiba and Funai brand names were alike under the hood. You would be hard pressed to tell any of then apart between 2006-2014 (other than the Funai being ugliest, Magnavox less ugly, and Toshiba nicer-looking). The used Funai SV2000 carriecountry wants to buy from a friend is, for all functional purposes, identical to a Toshiba 430 including the interface. So if you own the 430, Barjo4, you should be able to answer most questions that come up about the SV2000 :).

Since carriecountry has been pondering this decision for quite awhile now, it might be a good idea to re-state she is looking specifically for an *inexpensive* DVD recorder to back up recordings from her DiSH satellite DVR (which already has all the convenience features of multiple tuners and hard drive). Someone who stumbles across this thread seeking a DVD recorder recommendation for off-air antenna or "no box" cable should be re-directed to the huge ongoing "Magnavox DVD/HDD with built in ATSC tuner" discussion here: that series is the only one still available new suited for people who don't already have a TiVO, satellite or cable DVR.

Note if you don't have cable or satellite, do use a roof antenna, and don't particularly want to make DVDs, you probably don't want or need a DVD recorder at all. Today you can buy high-definition tuner-timer boxes that record directly onto hard drives (no dvd necessary). Units such as the iView, Homeworx and Channel Master are available new priced from $50 to $500, and of course there is still TiVO. These have features unavailable in DVD recorders, like true HDTV recording quality and convenient program timer grids. Related discussion threads can be found here on AVS in the "HDTV Recorders" forum.
 
#45 ·
Actually, Amazon is exactly where I want to buy it (so I can use my gift card balance).

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=sr_nr_p...nk+dvd&ie=UTF8&qid=1430455900&rnid=2528832011

Which ones? lol

Does the whole double layer thing matter?

As for live tv recording, what I meant is just being able to record whatever it showing on the screen, since this dvd recorder doesn't have a hard drive. I was told by someone that it had to have a hard drive to record off my dvr, though, they must not have been considering the live tv option when they said that. I just wanted to know if this one didn't just record whatever is on screen, if I would have to get one with a hard drive in order to record whatever is playing from my recordings on my dvr? I just want to get a copy on dvd of a few things I've recorded on the dvr....mostly live events/specials, not episodes or re-runs, that only air once.

So I should take a chance with this recorder, right? And just cross my fingers it records whatever is on screen?

I like the clearer colors on our CRT vs. the one that's more of a flat panel (it's actually CRT, just more square). Kind of like I miss using my old CRT desktop screen, except for the fact the glare isn't as bad on my LCD desktop screen. And what's always bugged me about some flat panels, like LCD, is how it's hard to see the picture unless you're at the exact angle. Like how it's hard to see the images on the TV's on display in the store if you walk up closer to them or view them from the side. I mean, I'm sure I could find a used CRT HDTV at some point, someone wanting to get rid of theirs, but is that really the only way to avoid that angle/up close issue or is there a LCD (or whatever flat panel) that would sort of remind me of the colors a CRT puts out and doesn't have the angle/up close issue some flat panels do? Other than plasma, or whatever, obviously.

"The dvd recorder is switched to Line the same way: once it is set to "line input" you would just leave it that way permanently." --- I'm assuming you mean just the input button? What do you mean by permanently?
 
#46 · (Edited)
Which ones? lol
Amazon has the good Verbatim AZO here.

Taiyo Yuden is arguably better media for older dvd recorders (easier to burn). If you can afford it, Amazon sells those here. For a $50 used recorder, it may not matter, since you could probably just replace it with another if you wear it out.

Does the whole double layer thing matter?
No. DL costs a fortune, most of it is unreliable, and most budget recorders can't burn it it anyway. If you need to dub a 4 hour movie or miniseries, its cheaper and safer to split it across two ordinary dvds.

As for live tv recording, what I meant is just being able to record whatever it showing on the screen, since this dvd recorder doesn't have a hard drive. I was told by someone that it had to have a hard drive to record off my dvr,
You don't need a hard drive for this: they probably misunderstood your question for the more common "how can I *get rid* of my DiSH dvr and replace it with something similar for off-air antenna recording?" Since you are keeping the DiSH service and their DVR, you don't need the hard drive feature duplicated in your dvd recorder. In your specific case, the hard drive is more of a "nice to have if I could afford it" option. There are always advantages to having a hard drive in the unit, but it isn't absolutely necessary for what you plan on doing with a dvd recorder.

So I should take a chance with this recorder, right? And just cross my fingers it records whatever is on screen?
Yes. But if it doesn't record some things from the DiSH box, you'll have to save up for a filter box in future. When it occurs, this is a DiSH-based issue: choosing a different dvd recorder model won't help.

I like the clearer colors on our CRT vs. the one that's more of a flat panel (it's actually CRT, just more square). [...] is there a LCD (or whatever flat panel) that would sort of remind me of the colors a CRT puts out and doesn't have the angle/up close issue some flat panels do? Other than plasma, or whatever, obviously.
Many people still prefer the CRT "look" esp for watching VHS and other lower-quality sources. In the near term, you will still have plenty of people wanting to get rid of their CRT once they upgrade to a large LCD flatscreen. It is easy enough to find a nice clean Sony Trinitron, any size, for less than $50 on Craigs List. If you're willing to take the huge heavy 32" model, many owners will give it to you free just to get it out of their homes. There's one guy here on AVS who cruises his town in a pickup truck, looking for big Sonys he can pluck like apples off a tree.

But sooner or later, everyone will be using LCD or plasma. CRT televisions can last up to 25 years with good performance, but they all eventually die, most after 15 years or so. We've now reached about ten-eleven years since the last Trinitron was mfrd, so in another ten the supply of usable second-hand consumer CRTs will be exhausted.

You can buy an LCD tv with nice colors and wide viewing angles, you just aren't gonna see it as a $99 special deal at WalMart. Right now, the TVs with widest viewing angles are models with "IPS" screen technology. Panasonic promotes this heavily in their line, while others like LG play stupid "lottery" games (some sets have it, some don't, you won't know til you take it out of the box and turn it on). More expensive high-end screen tech like OLED has finally begun to drop in price, another couple years and they should be affordable. OLED comes very close to CRT in "look": kind of a cross between plasma and LCD. By the time your current CRT dies, you should have several acceptable flat-screen options to choose from.

"The dvd recorder is switched to Line the same way: once it is set to "line input" you would just leave it that way permanently." --- I'm assuming you mean just the input button? What do you mean by permanently?
The tuner in these old recorders is now obsolete and useless for tuning anything but a handful of analog cable TV channels (no off-air, no DiSH). In any case you will get the best recording quality connecting your DiSH box to the dvd recorder line inputs. So once you've set the dvd recorder to "line" there should be no reason to ever change it to the useless tuner. In fact, by 2012, 90% of new dvd recorders still on the market had no tuner at all (because mfrs assumed most buyers already had a cable or satellite tuner/dvr they planned to use with it).
 
#47 ·
CitiBear,

I'll respond to the rest of your post later, but I bought the 50 pack Verbatim of the model you linked me to. Also bought some Maxwell sleeves, until I decide if I want to store them in cases or a binder, or what.

Some people were asking about writing on the Verbatim's...saying Amazon (or someone) has a special sharpie that isn't supposed to leak through after so much time or whatever. I didn't research it (yet), but someone else said to not use labels on the dvd. Is there ever a time you can safely use labels on a dvd, or does it risk damage/playing issues in the player, etc.? Or is it just best to get one of those special dvd markers or something and just write on the dvd directly? I would like to have the dvd labeled somehow, just in case it didn't get put back in the right case/sleeve.
 
#49 ·
Some people were asking about writing on the Verbatim's...saying Amazon (or someone) has a special sharpie that isn't supposed to leak through after so much time or whatever. I didn't research it (yet), but someone else said to not use labels on the dvd.
The (expensive!!) special Sharpie isn't necessary: I've been using ordinary Sharpies on my DVDs for nearly ten years now with no issues. The special Sharpie is meant more for use with recordable audio CDs, which have a different construction than video DVDs. Audio CDs can be damaged by ordinary marker pens, because the recording layer is barely protected by a thin film coating. Recordable DVD is like an Oreo cookie: two plastic discs with the recording layer well protected in between. So there is little to no chance of a Sharpie penetrating thru the top plastic disc.

Actual labels are usually frowned upon: they have a tendency to warp the disc over time or pull the two halves apart, exposing the recording layer to air. They also tend to stress the mechanics of the dvd player. I've never heard of anyone using the Brother system as jjeff described (and AFAIK this is the first he's ever mentioned it here- I'm shocked :eek:). But he is as finicky as the rest of us geeks: if he says its OK, its probably OK.

Personally I'd just use a Sharpie: it may not be as "neat" as a printed label, but a homemade DVD is never gonna look pretty regardless. I find the Sharpie quicker, and on some discs I like to cover the entire face with my descriptive scrawl. I guess it depends on whether yon can print neatly with a Sharpie, and how small you can write when necessary. The truly fussy and OCD among us buy special thermal or inkjet printers that print directly on the disc surface.
 
#48 ·
I've used Brother TZ labels ever since recording to DVD(9 years now) and never had an issue. My hand writing is poor so I prefer the more professional look of a label. They aren't exactly cheap though, they may be as expensive as what I pay for the blank DVDs themselves(~20 cents each) and thats at Costco where the labels are 1/2 the cost of retail stores like Office Max/Staples. Costco often runs a sale where you get a label maker, batteries and 3 labels for basically the cost of the labels, a good way to get started. The labels are 1/2" wide and I always print 2 lines per 1/2" label(3 lines per 3/4" label) and I print ~2-3" per DVD(labels are 26' long each but waste ~1" before and after the writing which I cut off and apply to the opposite side(same side but opposite of the center of the DVD) to help with any balance issues that may happen with having weight on one side of the DVD but not the other when it's spinning in the player. I've never had issues with my DVDs wobbling on not playing and again this has been going on for almost 10 years.
Amazon also sells the TZ labels cheap but I've always purchased them at Costco and I think Costco is the only one who basically gives away the labeler when their special bundle is on sale. You can purchase much nicer Brother labelers you can hook to your PC and print graphics and such but I've never done that.
 
#50 · (Edited)
The Brother TZ labels aren't really fancy, basically a 1/2" or 3/4" white label with black printing(thermally printed with the labeler). It's as thin as a piece of masking tape and sticks very well to the DVD(but can be easily removed if wanted). Never had one fall off or somehow damage the DVD with it's adhesive. The downside as I mentioned is the cost. ~$10/26 feet and each DVD can use up to 4 or 5 inches, depending on how much wording you use.
I know other people that print a label that covers basically all the top of a DVD and probably use a computer to make them. I like my system because it's so easy and quick, I can make a label in just a minute and it's totally standalone, no PC required.
The labeler has various fonts and point size as well as canned icons but I basically use a standard font with either 2 or 3 lines/tape, white tape with black lettering is the cheapest and what I use but tapes come in various colors but printing is generally black except for black labels where the printing is white.
 
#51 ·
Oh different layer types for cd and dvd, gotcha. Well it's good to know the sharpie won't hurt down the road.

Thank you for the information, jjeff. Actually, I wasn't looking to print any, just wanted to see if there was something that was sort of like the equivalent of an address label, but that was safe for the dvd and dvd player. One Amazon review mentioned some Memorex labels getting too hot in the dvd player and causing issues. It's just that my handwriting isn't the best or smallest, so I wanted to see what options were available. I guess I'll just try to write as neat and small as possible, with just a few words, and then that way I at least know what the dvd is. And, in the case, I can just make my own insert type of thing that gives more details...dates, chapter info (if I wanted), etc.

I'll respond to the rest later.
 
#52 ·
I'm gonna test the recorder today. Any last minute advice? Also, you mentioned earlier about it being better quality connected directly to the dvr? Is it a big difference or minor one? Right now the recorder is connected to the ports on the front of the tv, instead of being connected to the dvr.
 
#53 ·
I'm looking at the owner's manual online and it's a LOT of information. Do you know if there's a quicker way (a particular website or video) that teaches you what to mess with on the settings before you start recording? And how to finalize, etc. I've got to probably get the majority of the recordings done today, since our service was unfairly interrupted today, so that's the reason I'm asking. My time suddenly shrunk today after this interruption.
 
#54 ·
When I pause, it doesn't register the chapter marks. It registers the pause in terms of, if you're watching playback, you'll see it skip between the sections, but if I hit Next, it doesn't skip to the next chapter.

However, if I add the chapter mark in the Edit menu, it works. Am I missing something or ? Or do you have to do the chapter marks through the Edit menu?

You can't put names on the chapter marks themselves, right?
 
#59 ·
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