The ULTIMATE DVD Recorder Discussion - Page 3 - AVS Forum
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post #61 of 72 Old 07-14-2003, 10:44 PM
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Ooh! Looks like they'd need to make some massive changes to the 200 to get it compatible to equipment here, including the ethernet capability, wireless use (not as common here as it is in Japan and China), taking out the BS connection and making it control external satellite and digital cable boxes from here...and that price! In the end it might be awhile before we see this baby or a modded version of it on our shores...
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post #62 of 72 Old 07-15-2003, 10:26 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally posted by vferrari
For the benefit of Mr. Phillips, CD-R info site writeup also mentions menu thumbnails too! :)
Hell, yeah! This is MUSIC to my ears:

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Thumbnail display of contents is also available for recording to a DVD-RAM or DVD-R*6 disc. Since each scene is displayed with a thumbnail image, it's easy for users to select the sequence of scenes they want to play back. This function also allows easy editing without the need for a personal computer.
Yes. This is EXACTLY what I have been waiting for. I'm glad that Panasonic finally stepped up to the bar and decided to finally implement what I KNEW was possible all along. This will most likely be my DVD recorder when it comes out. When does it come out, that press release was a bit confusing? September of THIS year?

By the way, what’s the deal with all of the asterisks? Just curious.

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post #63 of 72 Old 07-15-2003, 10:35 AM - Thread Starter
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Also, for those who care or have been following the upcoming Pioneer machines with Hard Disc Drives, I don’t have any news yet. Pioneer has yet to get in touch with me about the functionality of their new TiVo equipped DVD-R/RW recorders with HDD. This was the webpage that started all the controversy over the editing capabilities of the new OVER $1,000 MSRP machines:

http://reviews.cnet.com/4505-6474_7-...tml?tag=promo2

The sentence “... and you can't edit out commercials before you transfer programs to disc,†really threw me for a loop and made me re-evaluate my interest for this machine. With Panasonic’s recent announcement of a new HDD recorder, with the ability to create acceptable menus with “Picture Screen Buttons†the Pioneer may very well be in serious trouble.

If you are interested, keep posting & checking back in this thread, as I will post Pioneer’s response email as soon as they send it to me.

Peace.

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post #64 of 72 Old 07-15-2003, 01:32 PM
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I _think_ the astericks are substitutes for footnote superscript markers, although I didn't find any footnotes. You will notice a progression from "*1" to "*6"..... Perhaps the text originated in some word doc, and that's how the footnotes got translated??
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post #65 of 72 Old 07-15-2003, 02:01 PM
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Here is a sample of thumbnail screen of DMR-E100H/E200H.
http://arena.nikkeibp.co.jp/news/20030714/105291/03.jpg

According to the press release in Japan, the thumbnail can be select anywhere you want to set as a thumbnail.


BTW, I think Pioneer's new coming DVDRs with HDD are designed baseed on the Japanese model - DV-77H.

Unfortunately, DV-77H can't edit out commercials on HDD programs before you transfer programs to a disc. Only you can do is making a dubbing list to edit out and transter the program from HDD to DVD-R or DVD-RW.

There is an rumour among some Japanese video philes that this restriction probably come from DV-77H's recording format on HDD. DV-77H has high speed transfer functionality, so the recording format on HDD must be DVD-Video format. That may be the reason why the DV-77H can't edit and can't record biligual audio track onto HDD like DVD+RW recorder although DVD-RW Video Recording format can do both of them.
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post #66 of 72 Old 07-15-2003, 02:46 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally posted by Rio
Here is a sample of thumbnail screen of DMR-E100H/E200H.
http://arena.nikkeibp.co.jp/news/20030714/105291/03.jpg

According to the press release in Japan, the thumbnail can be select anywhere you want to set as a thumbnail.


BTW, I think Pioneer's new coming DVDRs with HDD are designed baseed on the Japanese model - DV-77H.

Unfortunately, DV-77H can't edit out commercials on HDD programs before you transfer programs to disc. Only you can is making a dubbing list to edit out and transter the program from HDD to DVD-R or DVD-RW.

There is an rumour among some Japanese video philes that this restriction probably come from DV-77H's recording format on HDD. DV-77H has high speed transfer functionality, so the recording format on HDD must be DVD-Video format. That may be the reason why the DV-77H can't edit and can't record biligual audio track onto HDD like DVD+RW recorder although DVD-RW Video Recording format can do both of them.
Okay, that does it.

Screw you, Pioneer, with your limiting the functionality on a product that I am going to be shelling out hella cash on.

Screw you, Philips, with your buggy machines, bad VHS transfer, constant updates.

I'm going with Panasonic! Praise the good Lord (wait, I'm an agnostic) that they SAW THE LIGHT and gave me LOSSLESS transfer to DVD-R along with my INDEX THUMBNAIL SCREEN!

Long live Panasonic!

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post #67 of 72 Old 07-15-2003, 06:13 PM
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If Rio is correct about the Pioneer recording to the HD in Video format, then it would be a limitation of the format, although I guess you could say Pioneer is responsible for implementing the recording that way.

But I'd be surprised if they didn't allow recording in the VR format too. Surely they must expect consumers to want to edit out commercials? Do they really expect them to sit there pausing the recorder at every commercial break?

And with that limitation, why not just record directly to the DVD blank? Seems like a waste of a HD to me.
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post #68 of 72 Old 07-15-2003, 07:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by leebo
But I'd be surprised if they didn't allow recording in the VR format too. Surely they must expect consumers to want to edit out commercials? Do they really expect them to sit there pausing the recorder at every commercial break?
No. You can edit out commercials when you transfer the program from HDD to a disc. You can make a dubbing list to let recorder know which portion should be recorded onto a disc and should be removed. The recorder transfers only "needed" portion which are defined by the dubbing list.

I don't know whether recording mode on HDD is the cause of the restriction or not - it's just a rumor. Since Toshiba and Panasonic allows users to record onto HDD with VR format and edit them and transfer programs losslessly, it is possible to store programs on HDD with VR format in technical stand point. But Pioneer didn't design their hybrid recorder to do so. Pioneer may have thought that HDD is just a temporal work place for recoding out programs to a disc, there is no need to edit programs directory on the HDD.
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post #69 of 72 Old 07-15-2003, 07:29 PM
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Interesting. I guess the Cnet review is either incorrect or maybe they had a beta version.
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post #70 of 72 Old 07-20-2003, 12:08 PM
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Damn, I go on vacation for a couple of months and you all start talking DVD Recorders without me!

I'm planning on picking up a couple of the new Pioneer decks and the 5.1 Philips when its out. I can live with a Dubbing List. Whats the difference really? I just hope I get VR mode on -R meida and all the nifty DVNR features from the current 7k. I don't really care about DV in as the current implementation looks like crap anyway, so I don't use it.

As a long time ReplayTV user I'm really excited about the TiVo features, although I will only use the basic service. Replay's mpeg encoder is showing its age. I really can't stand watching recordings on it anymore, especially after those are re-dubbed to DVD-R. I've been considering a DirecTiVo but will try out the new Pioneers first.

Also, the Philips does have component in but I've heard it implied that it might not be a true component input. It may be combined into Y/C for recording. It wouldn't make sense since thats converted to component for recording but it would save a few bucks in parts. Some dvd player manufacturers have been doing this very thing for component outputs for some time. The new Digital Video Essentials (DVE) is supposed to have a test to check for this very issue. Can't wait to see it.
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post #71 of 72 Old 07-21-2003, 03:19 PM
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Mrwilson,

You really should try a DirecTivo. Two family members have it and I have the Dish version. A friend has a Replay.

To my eyes, there is a world of difference in PQ. Remember, using a Replay or off the shelf Tivo, the mpeg2 stream is being converted at least twice:

From the output of the cable/satellite box (from mpeg into analogue)
From the input of the set top DVD recorder (back into mpeg).

With a DirecTivo, you'll be converting once.
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post #72 of 72 Old 07-21-2003, 03:47 PM
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Thanks Leebo, I know. Thats why I'm considering one. My mother has a DirecTivo and it looks great. I personally like the software on the Replay though.
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