High Speed Dubbing question for E80 - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 24 Old 08-29-2003, 11:10 PM - Thread Starter
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I just recorded a vhs that was 70 minutes long in sp mode. I then dubbed in high speed mode. My question is does dubbing in high speed mode for a 70 minute recording take up all the available bit space or is it recording 120 minutes to a dvd-r for a 70 minute recording? I hope that makes sense.

"When a studio treats me badly, I remember it. I have no patience for studio
executives who treat me like an idiot or tell me how my characters should
talk." --Billy Bob Thorton, Los Angeles Times, November 24, 1996


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post #2 of 24 Old 08-29-2003, 11:16 PM
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When you dub in high speed mode it is a direct digital transfer to DVD-R, this means that the recording mode does not change. Therefore, a 70 min program recorded in SP mode (120 minutes of programming fills a disc) will only take up 70/120 or approx. 60 % of the available DVD-R disk space. Hope this answers your question.

If you originally recorded the program in FR mode then all the disk space would have been used during the subsequent high speed dub. This is because in FR mode, the E80 will record at a bitrate that would allow a program to completely fill a disc.

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post #3 of 24 Old 08-29-2003, 11:18 PM - Thread Starter
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But if I recorded it in FR mode, all of my markers are gone. Is that correct?

"When a studio treats me badly, I remember it. I have no patience for studio
executives who treat me like an idiot or tell me how my characters should
talk." --Billy Bob Thorton, Los Angeles Times, November 24, 1996


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post #4 of 24 Old 08-31-2003, 07:48 PM
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Re: But if I recorded it in FR mode, all of my markers are gone. Is that correct?

You can retain the markers only if you record and dub in the same mode i.e. FR record FR dub. (High Speed Dubbing.) High Speed Dubbing is only allowed if you record and dub at the same speed. Markers are only retained when you dub at high speed. Otherwise the E-80 will set automatic 5 minute markers.

The only way to get around the markers if you have used different speeds for recording and dubbing is to divide the program into the chapters you require and then those corresponding chapters will be transferred to the DVD-R or DVD-RAM in the form of new programs. Hope this helps:)

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post #5 of 24 Old 08-31-2003, 08:07 PM - Thread Starter
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There is no FR mode when recording to the hard drive.

"When a studio treats me badly, I remember it. I have no patience for studio
executives who treat me like an idiot or tell me how my characters should
talk." --Billy Bob Thorton, Los Angeles Times, November 24, 1996


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post #6 of 24 Old 08-31-2003, 08:12 PM
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Quote:
There is no FR mode when recording to the hard drive.
Not true. The E80 will record in FR mode to the hard drive and will select the bit rate appropriate to the length of the recording such that it would fill up a "virtual" 4.7 GB DVD. Put another way, when recording in FR mode to the hdd, the recording will take up about 4300 KB on the HDD regardless of program length. This is spelled out in the HS2 manual. I assume it is spelled out in the E80 manual, as well. Have you taken the time to read it?

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post #7 of 24 Old 08-31-2003, 08:30 PM - Thread Starter
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Yes I have read the E80 manual but it is not mentioned or I must have missed it. I've looked thru it several times and I Haven't seen this mentioned. When selecting the speed to record to the hard drive, FR mode is not one of the options.

Am I overlooking something?

"When a studio treats me badly, I remember it. I have no patience for studio
executives who treat me like an idiot or tell me how my characters should
talk." --Billy Bob Thorton, Los Angeles Times, November 24, 1996


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post #8 of 24 Old 08-31-2003, 08:36 PM
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When you select the "Functions Menu" doesn't "Flexible Rec" show up as an option on the screen - third row, third column on my HS2 (its not like the normal XP, SP, LP, EP modes that show up on the selector button because you have to set the recording length (time)). FR mode shows up on the index on the back of my HS2 manual.

Good luck,
Vic

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post #9 of 24 Old 08-31-2003, 08:42 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks Vic. I don't know how I overlooked that one. I appreciate the enlightenment. It is noted in the users manual on page 16, lower left corner. How does Homer Simpson word it, "Doh!"

"When a studio treats me badly, I remember it. I have no patience for studio
executives who treat me like an idiot or tell me how my characters should
talk." --Billy Bob Thorton, Los Angeles Times, November 24, 1996


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post #10 of 24 Old 08-31-2003, 08:46 PM - Thread Starter
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One more question, when recording to the hard drive in FR mode will it allow me to record to dvd-r in high speed so that I may insert my markers?

"When a studio treats me badly, I remember it. I have no patience for studio
executives who treat me like an idiot or tell me how my characters should
talk." --Billy Bob Thorton, Los Angeles Times, November 24, 1996


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post #11 of 24 Old 09-01-2003, 05:54 AM
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I converted several laserdisc to DVD-R by recording to the hard drive using "FR", edited the side break using 'shorten segment' and "high speed" recorded to a DVD-R. Excellent results for Fall of the Roman Empire, 55 Dyas at Peking, 1492 and at least 20 other titles not on commercial DVD.
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post #12 of 24 Old 09-01-2003, 05:56 AM
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Robert,

I've "Doh'd" several times with this technology. Straight forward it certainly is not!

Quote:
One more question, when recording to the hard drive in FR mode will it allow me to record to dvd-r in high speed so that I may insert my markers?
Yes. You should be able to insert and retain custom markers and even edit an FR recorded program and still have high speed dub capability as long as you originally recorded the program to the HDD in DVD-R compatibility mode (another menu option selection). You only lose high speed dubbing capability if you attempt to dub using a mode that is different than the mode in which the program was originally recorded (e.g., going from FR to SP or XP to SP, for example).

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post #13 of 24 Old 09-01-2003, 10:13 AM - Thread Starter
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When recording to the hard drive in FR mode will it let me record to dvd-r in highspeed mode or will I have to record in FR mode to the dvd-r thus eliminating my markers?

"When a studio treats me badly, I remember it. I have no patience for studio
executives who treat me like an idiot or tell me how my characters should
talk." --Billy Bob Thorton, Los Angeles Times, November 24, 1996


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post #14 of 24 Old 09-01-2003, 10:16 AM
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If you've recorded to the hard drive in FR mode with DVD-R compatibility mode on, then a high speed dub to DVD-R should be one of the options available to you.

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post #15 of 24 Old 09-01-2003, 10:23 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks vferrari.

I'm recording to my hard drive in FR mode at this very moment and I'm quite pleased that I'm able to this, with a lot of help from you of course.

"When a studio treats me badly, I remember it. I have no patience for studio
executives who treat me like an idiot or tell me how my characters should
talk." --Billy Bob Thorton, Los Angeles Times, November 24, 1996


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post #16 of 24 Old 09-08-2003, 08:47 AM
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Regarding recording to the HDD in FR mode, anyone else have this problem:

I go into the FR screen where it displays the inputs for how long to make the recording. However, the unit kicks me out of that screen after about 5 seconds, no matter what I do, either inputing a recording time or just doing nothing. The kick out is to a blue screen, like the player is going into a sleep mode or something. So far I have not been able to do an FR recording because I don't get enough time to input my settings before it sends me to blue screen land. Is this player defective, or am I missing something?

Thanks!
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post #17 of 24 Old 09-08-2003, 10:13 AM
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Quote:
I go into the FR screen where it displays the inputs for how long to make the recording. However, the unit kicks me out of that screen after about 5 seconds, no matter what I do, either inputing a recording time or just doing nothing. The kick out is to a blue screen, like the player is going into a sleep mode or something.
I noticed this happens to me when there is no video signal being fed to whatever input I have selected on the E80. In my case, I have been using the L2 front a/v inputs, so if the attached VCR or camcorder is not turned on, I get kicked out of the FR screen as you described. If I power on the source device, the problem goes away.
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post #18 of 24 Old 09-08-2003, 10:19 AM
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In the week I have had the E80, every recording (at least 10-15 discs worth) I have made (from both VHS and Laser) has been done in FR mode (thanks to the tips read in this forum). Knock on wood, I have never seen the blue screen during this setup procedure. Scott makes a good point - the only time I too see the blue screen is when I have the wrong input selected. I have always previewed whatever it is I am going to record before setting up the recorder, so I am already using the appropriate input.
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post #19 of 24 Old 09-08-2003, 12:28 PM
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Scott and Jim,

Thanks for the advice, I will give it a try tonight. What you're saying makes sense in a strange sort of firmware designer's way. I never would have thought of it myself.

HD
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post #20 of 24 Old 09-09-2003, 09:51 AM
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What is the value of recording to the hard drive in FR mode, other than to reduce the DVD-R burn times? Does it give you better quality over XP?

I've been recording to the hard drive in XP mode, because I assumed it would give me the best available quality. After editing out stuff I don't want (leaders, trailers, commercials) I've been buring to the DVD-R in FR mode to make it fit.

I'm not concerned about speed of burning, as I set up the burns to happen when I go to sleep or to work. Is my method the best and most efficient manner?

Greg
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post #21 of 24 Old 09-09-2003, 11:13 AM
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Quote:
What is the value of recording to the hard drive in FR mode, other than to reduce the DVD-R burn times? Does it give you better quality over XP?
The value is if you want to copy material from the HD to disc using the best compression method for optimal picture quality, but your program material does not fit the standard XP (1 hour) or SP (2 hour) time.

For example, if you have 1.5 hours of program material that you want to fit onto a single disc, you can achieve a recording quality somewhere between XP and SP by using a FR time of 1:30. Without FR, your only option would be SP speed and wasting some space on the disc that could be used to improve recording quality.

Also, you can achieve SP-level quality on a single disc for material up to around 2:15 in length using FR.
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post #22 of 24 Old 09-09-2003, 11:52 AM
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Thanks, Scott.

How does the quality differ between the method you describe and the way I do it by copying to the hard drive in XP (regardless of size), trimmingoff excess, and then burning to the DVD-R in FR mode? Wouldn't this result in the same quality (and possibly better, since I trim off a lot of excess prior to FR "compression"?)

I honestly don't know, just looking for the best option.

Greg
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post #23 of 24 Old 09-09-2003, 12:14 PM
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You're better off not doing any reencoding when dubbing (keep record mode the same for original capture and dub).

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post #24 of 24 Old 09-09-2003, 01:29 PM
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Are you saying that if you record to the HDD at SP, make a Play List, then dub to DVD-R at SP, it is a lossless copy with no re-encoding?

John
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