$99.99 Cyberhome DVR 1600 DVD recorder. What do you think of it? - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 995 Old 06-12-2005, 09:21 PM
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does anyone know if broadcast and/or cable tv is copyrighting programming in a way that would cause dvd record finalization process to fail?
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post #92 of 995 Old 06-13-2005, 03:30 AM
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Quote:


I thought macrovision was only used by DVDs (and VHS tapes). I didn't know broadcast TV (satellite, cable et al) used it.

It's not macrovision but some premium channel providers, most notably HBO, are using CGMS analog encoding on their feeds to provide copy protection controls (copy once, copy never, copy always, etc.) for some content. This is different than the so called digital "broadcast flag" but the result is basically the same.

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post #93 of 995 Old 06-13-2005, 03:37 AM
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I finally had success finalizing both a DVD-R (cheap Memorex) and DVD+R (really cheap Office Max) disc. One thing that I have noticed is that both types of disc fail when I record anything over an hour.

Both of the discs that worked were under 60 minutes. All of the failures have occured trying to record shows that are 90 to 120 minutes.

Any ideas on that?

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post #94 of 995 Old 06-13-2005, 05:44 AM
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I tried several different brand disks. Memorex and Maxwell were the worst. Failed two times to finalize on Memorex +R but both times it was running 120 minutes. Couple times it even failed to erase/initialize the Memorex disks upon startup (froze at 99%). On Maxwell +R it would record and finalize ok but won't play on my other dvd player. Phillips +R disk I had one failure out of 4. But for Sony +R no failure over 5 burns. On Fujifilm +RW no failure also. Wrote and erased many times and played on all my players including PC.
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post #95 of 995 Old 06-13-2005, 06:03 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vferrari View Post

It's not macrovision but some premium channel providers, most notably HBO, are using CGMS analog encoding on their feeds to provide copy protection controls (copy once, copy never, copy always, etc.) for some content. This is different than the so called digital "broadcast flag" but the result is basically the same.

That's interesting. What programs has anyone had this prevent them from saving, and what were the visual effects?
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post #96 of 995 Old 06-13-2005, 08:04 AM
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i've read in some other forums however that in general cgms code does not interfere w/ one time recording..is really meant to stop widespread piracy..
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post #97 of 995 Old 06-13-2005, 09:46 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rammgm View Post

i've read in some other forums however that in general cgms code does not interfere w/ one time recording..is really meant to stop widespread piracy..

Interesting. I've read similar type things but I've never read where someone's actually seen them or their effects.
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post #98 of 995 Old 06-13-2005, 04:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rammgm View Post

i've read in some other forums however that in general cgms code does not interfere w/ one time recording..is really meant to stop widespread piracy..

As vferrari said, there are three types of CGMS: copy always (no protection), copy once, and copy never.

Copy once is so that you can temporarily save the program to HDD, DVD-RW(VR), or DVD-RAM for viewing at a later time, a la TiVo or even the old fashioned VCR. Consumers would absolutely rebel if they could ONLY watch TV when the program was being actually broadcast, so copy once was invented for this purpose.

If you want to save the program indefinitely, the only way to do so is on -RW(VR) discs or DVD-RAM discs. That can get a bit costly after a while, plus there are compatibility issues (particularly with RAM). CGMS won't let you record on anything else, though I read somewhere that DVD manufacturers are thinking of enabling VR mode on -R discs. That will lower the cost, but does not address the compatibility.

Don't think for a minute that Hollywood is trying to be nice to us. All they think of is the bottom line.
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post #99 of 995 Old 06-13-2005, 05:42 PM
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Folks,

I would be extra careful in placing much faith in these units. They were on sale this weekend at Best Buy and Targer for about $98. I bought three of them at various Targets and had to return all three defective units. These were the 'ZU' units.

Unit #1:
- two screws rattling inside unit. Opened it up to take a peek. The cover to the DVD drive was missing two screws. When I tried to screw them back in, I realized both screws were stripped out.

Unit #2:
Actually worked. Picture on a 42" EDTV plasma via component video and progressive scan was excellent. 3:2 pulldown actually appeared to work. Note that I was using Vampire component video cables which probably cost 1/2 the price of the unit . Unfortunately, as soon as I pressed 'record' internal electrical noise in the units cheap @#$ circuitry introduced wavy diagonal lines into the recording and picture. This noise stayed until I stopped recording and switched video inputs. The picture looked like a typical picture from an over the air antennae with bad reception.

Unit #3:
Wouldn't power on at all.

I probably spent more in gas buying these units and returning these units that the unit cost. If they worked, they'd be a great deal for $98. My guess is that even if they work, they will break pretty quickly. Three bad units from two different targets is likely stastically relevant.

Beware!!!
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post #100 of 995 Old 06-13-2005, 07:49 PM
 
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What month is your unit, jrmarek?
My April, '05 ZU worked very well for many hours this last weekend. I got excellent copies of my Star Wars (original version "faces" discs) put onto DVD. I copied the LDs onto -RWs @ SP speed and transferred all the digital info onto my computer. From there I assembled and made some very nice exact copies of the LDs, minus the side and disc pauses. There is a slight hitch at the title changes (2 per disc) but it is amazing to see that there was no loss at all using the SP speed.
Perhaps this Cyberhome will show some sign of trouble eventually but it is an excellent little machine right now. I'm going to give it a good workout so that before 30 days (return time) is up I'll know if it's a keeper. It's great being able to so easily do digital video work.
The tuner is only mono but it is a very clean and sensitive tuner. If one is using cable one needs to be careful of ground loop. I use OTA and the images are clean.

Here are some reviews from Videohelp.com: http://www.videohelp.com/dvdplayers....arch&#comments
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post #101 of 995 Old 06-14-2005, 02:19 AM
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Emailed ilo about whether or not the tv tuner in the DVDR05 is mono or stereo.

Response:

"Yes, the unit does have a stereo TV tuner. Please let us know if you
still have any questions"

Is it possible that they are shipping both and some get lucky and end up with a stereo tuner?
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post #102 of 995 Old 06-14-2005, 03:37 AM
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Not very likely that some are mono and some are stereo. At this point I tend to trust the individual users (AVS members) rather than some anonymous e-mail or phone tech drone for the manufacturer. The "techs" are often misinformed or ignorant of fine details (such as whether a tuner is mono or tuner) and are usually shooting from the hip. In other words they are often more wrong than right. I would like to know how Cyrano/Mike above finally determined with certainty that the tuner was mono.

The Future ain't what it used to be...
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post #103 of 995 Old 06-14-2005, 07:03 AM
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I did a few minute record on VH1 and played the dvd-rw on my computer,used PowerDvd and went into settings and it showed it was STEREO!!
I also used virtual dub and it showed the same results..if you look back a few pages you'll see my results posted.
Possibly the station they were recording esp from OTA wasnt in stereo in the first place...who knows.
I got some time off this week and have alot of different media to test i'll post results in a few days.
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post #104 of 995 Old 06-14-2005, 07:05 AM
 
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I determined it was mono by listening to it during news broadcasts and a couple of game shows ( ). We have an LCD TV that really seems easy to judge mono versus stereo with. Put my head in the middle and if the sound is stuck in the middle with me all the time it is mono. I switch back and forth between the TV's tuner and the AV input for the Cyberhome. The TV tuner is stereo and the difference is easy to hear. I want to be clear here that I am *not* using the RF passthrough as the Cyberhome reference. (I haven't even used the RF output on the Cyberhome.)

I also take the discs into the HT and audition them on our X1/Kenwood setup. The sound is solidly in the center using Cyberhome tuner fed material.
The odd thing was the disc I made with the Lite0n 5005. (I returned the 5005) The sound did display some "width". There wasn't much discrete separation, but I could hear seemingly ambient sound (audience?) in the surrounds of the disc I made of the Tony Awards. It could just be some imbalance in left and right.
I hear nothing at all in the surrounds of recordings made using the Cyberhome tuner.
Of course, recordings using the audio inputs on the cyberhome are stereo (if the source is). And they are quite good.

I guess I should post a question of my own about editing. The discs that the 5005 produced were DVD-VR and I could not transfer them to my Hard drive in a usable form. The 1600 is easy to transfer to the Hard drive but I would like to be able to work with the files in a more flexible fashion. All my editing software seems to want AVI or Mpeg files. And I really don't want to go the file conversion route (DVD2AVI and so on) as it is VERY time consuming.

I know I've much to learn.
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post #105 of 995 Old 06-14-2005, 07:12 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bud-man View Post

I did a few minute record on VH1 and played the dvd-rw on my computer,used PowerDvd and went into settings and it showed it was STEREO!!
I also used virtual dub and it showed the same results..if you look back a few pages you'll see my results posted.
Possibly the station they were recording esp from OTA wasnt in stereo in the first place...who knows.
I got some time off this week and have alot of different media to test i'll post results in a few days.

I don't think PowerDVD is making a judgement based on whether the sound has a "difference" signal present. Stereo usually means it recorded two channels. The Cyberhome always records two channels. In the tuner's case both those channels are the same. That equals Mono.

I wish I was wrong. I would like to find a recorder with actual stereo using the builtin tuner.

Is the Panny ES10's tuner Stereo?
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post #106 of 995 Old 06-14-2005, 07:52 AM
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I just picked up the 1600ZU and I'm a little concerned about the heat given that this unit has no fan. The only place I can fit it in on my unit is right above or below my Dish Network 721 receiver, which runs REAL hot. Does anyone have any thoughts on whether this would be a bad idea. I certainly don't want to damage the 721.

Thanks.

David
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post #107 of 995 Old 06-14-2005, 08:01 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davpel View Post

I just picked up the 1600ZU and I'm a little concerned about the heat given that this unit has no fan. The only place I can fit it in on my unit is right above or below my Dish Network 721 receiver, which runs REAL hot. Does anyone have any thoughts on whether this would be a bad idea. I certainly don't want to damage the 721.

Thanks.

David

I have the same concern. I have mine sitting by itself with nothing above it and a small stand (two pieces of 1"X1.5" wood) holding it up in the air.
It really gets too hot to sandwich it between gear, I think.
Most gear should be separated from each other anyway. I was picking up a very slight hum when I had this unit sitting on top of a DVD player when I first tried it out.

I did read in a review where one user installed a fan.

YMMV
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post #108 of 995 Old 06-14-2005, 09:44 AM
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I emailed cyberhome about a week ago asking if the device was EIA-775A compliant, which is needed to record from DVRs over 1394 (ie firewire). I just got back the following reply.

Quote:


Your DVR-1600 unit is not EIA-775A compliant. It only supports DV cable to DV camcorders and in fact not Firewire



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post #109 of 995 Old 06-14-2005, 09:55 AM
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C'mon Cyrano computers dont lie, your ears in between 2 speakers isnt the "proper" way either...haha.
It's possible it could be recording in simulated stereo.....try recording from mtv or vh1 which are true stereo channel.
It does get warm, mine is inside a Ikea tv stand with 3 other dvd players, a HTPC and the "heater" a Motorola 6412 DVR.
I played a few of my burned dvd-r's and it was freezing up alot, ive just switched dvd's with a sony -R and so far it's playing fine as we speak.
I took the same dvd and played it fine in my philips dvp642, sound was ALOT better thru optical out than the cyberhomes coaxial, thats one feature they removed from the dvr1500, optical out.
Ive been thinking of returning it as ive had for 2 weeks already and does have some quirks i dont like.
Dozen's weve tried recording direct with firewire from dvr, just locks the recorder up, have no problem recording from the s-vid input thou.......
We really couldnt of gotten that lucky....
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post #110 of 995 Old 06-14-2005, 12:08 PM
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I just played back a dvd recorded from the DVR using S-Video using SP 2 hour mode, looks horrible with alot of interference, my kid might think it ok but i'm not impressed.
Recording from cable tuner is very grainy also.
Any idea's?
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post #111 of 995 Old 06-14-2005, 12:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dozens View Post

I emailed cyberhome about a week ago asking if the device was EIA-775A compliant, which is needed to record from DVRs over 1394 (ie firewire). I just got back the following reply.

I emailed them about a week ago and asked them if they will be releasing a firmware update for those of us who purchased April manufactured units (since the May one lists a newer firmware for both the software and the loader).

"we in process of upgrading.
thank you"

Well there you have it.
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post #112 of 995 Old 06-14-2005, 01:34 PM
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I've tried the 1600 from Target and BestBuy AND I now have a iLo DVR005 from Wal-Mart with a March manufacture date and a ZU on the package and I can say a few things for sure:

1)None of the three units play DiVX/XvID

2)The coax input does not have Macro-vision detection. Using my "Devo:The Men Who Make the Music" video tape I am able to record from the coax input fine but when I try the composite output from my VCR into the composite input on the recorder I get a "Protected Content" warning.

3)Playing a non-region encoded Pal disc works fine.

4)Playing a Region 2 disc gives a "Wrong Region" error but you can start the disc by pressing a number (e.g., number 2) on the keypad. It will go to that chapter. Several buttons on the remote such as "Menu" will not work but "Title" does. Just choose a title that you know ends quickly and try to get back to the main DVD menu from there by navigating. back. It's kind of a pain but it does work.

5)The unit quickly forgets which ""Source" input you are using but it's pretty easy to switch back.

6)The DVDs it burns do not work in my Mac on my Pioneer DVD player but DVDShrink on the PC will re-burn them into useable discs.

7)I have recorded with DVD+R, DVD+RW and DVD-RW. All seem to work fine.

I think this unit is great for backup up Tivo recordings and old VHS tapes but I don't think the recording quality will be acceptable to videophiles.

Take this unit for what it is: a DIRT-cheap recorder and a useable (if inconvenient) multi-region player.
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post #113 of 995 Old 06-14-2005, 03:56 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bud-man View Post

C'mon Cyrano computers dont lie, your ears in between 2 speakers isnt the "proper" way either...haha.
It's possible it could be recording in simulated stereo.....try recording from mtv or vh1 which are true stereo channel.

I don't think you understand what I'm saying. Stereo is Not two channels of the same material. Mono can come out of 5 channels. The Computer hears two channels but they are the same material. Mono. Two channels of mono does not equal stereo. (Someone take over for me)

And I read someone (in some related thread or this one) saying that it sounds so good they can't tell if it's stereo or mono?

Use your ears. They will tell you the truth.

It is a mono, not stereo tuner. Perhaps your tuner is different. I hope so. Listen to it. Listen to your surround speakers (read my entire pervious posting.) Mono will not come out of them.

Do you hear instruments in the left speaker that you do not hear in the right?

Oh well - Good luck to ya!

And, BTW, I only use an OTA signal as I mentioned in another posting. I do not have cable nor satellite. We live where cable doesn't reach and Dishnet looked pretty bad on our PJ and we just weren't watching it. The shows I use to test with display great Stereo separation. You can actually hear it - with your ears. What a concept!

Okay, I thought of another way of explaining it. When I play back the DVD on PowerDVD (I prefer Cineplayer by Sonic) it says Stereo (2 channels). And since the recorder is only capable of recording two channels it must say Stereo. It is a Stereo (2 channel) recording of a monaural signal (I'm only referring to the tuner here). I wish it were not so but it is with my unit. I hope you got one where you can hear separation between the sounds. To hear stereo one must use one's ears, not eyes.
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post #114 of 995 Old 06-14-2005, 05:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyrano View Post


And I read someone (in some related thread or this one) saying that it sounds so good they can't tell if it's stereo or mono?

Use your ears. They will tell you the truth.

That was me when I did a brief test to see if it was stereo or not. Since reception in my area sucks, the only thing I could tune in during the middle of the day was a Soap Opera and Sesame Street. Both of which sounded "good" to me, but I could not tell if they were stereo since it was not material that "screamed" stereo (musical instruments playing in different channels).

If MTV or VH1 were available OTA, I would have of course tuned in immediately to those stations and could give a more accurate description.

In that thread I also noted that *most* (if not all?) stereo tuners these days (in a VCR, TV, or DVD Recorder) also receive SAP broadcast. So my hypothesis (using my brains, not my ears) is that since this tuner cannot receive SAP, it is most likely not a Stereo Tuner.

Dang, if that comment was meant as an insult to me, I would not have even wasted my time testing it out, since OTA tuning is useless to me.
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post #115 of 995 Old 06-14-2005, 06:15 PM
 
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I'm sorry Atrac. I did not mean to insult you. I meant to say that one needs to use one's ears to determine whether or not a sound is stereo. Your method of using your brains is excellent. (I had trouble finding stereo program material as you did, OTA doesn't have a lot of variety!) If there is no SAP, there probably is no stereo.

I do think the terms mean almost nothing sometimes though. Stereo doesn't mean better fidelity. Just as Mono doesn't mean bad fidelity.

An LP (an ancient vinyl method of transmitting sound - ) can use a stereo stylus to read the grooves of a monaural recording. The resultant sound is Mono, but the delivery system is 2 (or more) channels. The result is a mono sound. (This is just another attempt to explain how something that "seems" to be Stereo is not.)

Again, I apologize for my faux pas, Atrac. You were right in your method of examining I think. Please don't let my clumsy words affect you. I was frustrated and I felt insulted unjustly, just as you probably did. My bad.
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post #116 of 995 Old 06-14-2005, 08:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyrano View Post

I'm sorry Atrac. I did not mean to insult you. I meant to say that one needs to use one's ears to determine whether or not a sound is stereo. Your method of using your brains is excellent. (I had trouble finding stereo program material as you did, OTA doesn't have a lot of variety!) If there is no SAP, there probably is no stereo.

I do think the terms mean almost nothing sometimes though. Stereo doesn't mean better fidelity. Just as Mono doesn't mean bad fidelity.

An LP (an ancient vinyl method of transmitting sound - ) can use a stereo stylus to read the grooves of a monaural recording. The resultant sound is Mono, but the delivery system is 2 (or more) channels. The result is a mono sound. (This is just another attempt to explain how something that "seems" to be Stereo is not.)

Again, I apologize for my faux pas, Atrac. You were right in your method of examining I think. Please don't let my clumsy words affect you. I was frustrated and I felt insulted unjustly, just as you probably did. My bad.

I appreciate your comments. Thank you for taking the time to respond thoughtfully (something that is becoming more and more rare these days in forums).
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post #117 of 995 Old 06-15-2005, 08:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyrano View Post

I'm sorry Atrac. I did not mean to insult you. I meant to say that one needs to use one's ears to determine whether or not a sound is stereo. Your method of using your brains is excellent. (I had trouble finding stereo program material as you did, OTA doesn't have a lot of variety!) If there is no SAP, there probably is no stereo.

Have you tried running a bit of the audio through Soundforge? You can zoom into the audio waves enough to tell if it is an identical signal in both L/R.

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post #118 of 995 Old 06-15-2005, 09:09 AM
 
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Good idea, NVboy. I have another similar program I'll try using.

If anyone is familiar with the Hafler effect that is essentially what I've used to detect any difference between the two channels the 1600 records with the tuner signal. So far there is no difference between the channels. 2 channel mono is what I've found.

I'll look at the two audio waves and see. Thanks.
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post #119 of 995 Old 06-15-2005, 12:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyrano View Post

Good idea, NVboy. I have another similar program I'll try using.

If anyone is familiar with the Hafler effect that is essentially what I've used to detect any difference between the two channels the 1600 records with the tuner signal. So far there is no difference between the channels. 2 channel mono is what I've found.

I'll look at the two audio waves and see. Thanks.

Please post your findings. I've been waiting & waiting for 1 unit to be introduced that won't have all the flaws people are posting about. This would be a nice cheapo alternative in the interim before something worthwhile is released.

PS-no offense to those who have standalone DVD recorders.

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post #120 of 995 Old 06-15-2005, 04:34 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NVboy View Post

Please post your findings. I've been waiting & waiting for 1 unit to be introduced that won't have all the flaws people are posting about. This would be a nice cheapo alternative in the interim before something worthwhile is released.

PS-no offense to those who have standalone DVD recorders.

I have used Waveedit and the samples I used from all the stations I can receive using an antenna are Mono. Two channel Mono using the builtin tuner. With my software players it says Stereo as I thought it would since there are two channels.

The waveforms look identical to me. In my opinion it is 2 channel mono. (If someone finds other evidence please post it. My sampling may be too limited)
For my purposes it is a good buy. (Timeshifting and transferring videos and LDs to DVD.) The unit runs consistently well for me. No hiccups, nothing unexpected. It does run hot and has no fan. In a previous posting I listed a link to other reviews. Read them all. I think build quality may be the only issue from what one recent poster here said.
But some of the problems that happen with this unit may be ground loops and learning curves. The mechanical problems are another thing. Mine is good, but if someone had a problem with loose parts, that should be taken into account.
30 days should allow one to discover most bugs. I would recommend mine to someone else. It is an April 05 ZU model.

YMMV - For the price it seems a good unit to try, but then the Liteon 5005 is only $129 at Costco. (Mono tuner and the DVDs are not as editable in my experience. I'd be glad to find how I am wrong about the editability as it is a very versatile unit.)

No offense taken, BTW - we Home Theater Folk are a sensitive lot are we not?
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