Pioneer Disappearing EPG - Page 10 - AVS Forum
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post #271 of 859 Old 01-24-2006, 05:31 PM
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In your six weeks of reading this Forum, maybe you ran across the EUREKA Topic? It should answer your question.
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post #272 of 859 Old 01-24-2006, 05:36 PM
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Hi Bob
sounds familiar......ill read it again, is it in this thread??........
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post #273 of 859 Old 01-24-2006, 05:44 PM
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Yes, the EUREKA Topic is in this (DVD Recorders) Forum: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=566167

It works for me.
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post #274 of 859 Old 01-24-2006, 06:44 PM
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Well ive re-read some of the Eureka thread, i did read this a while back, it seems some are still complaining about quirks when you turn EPG off......Bob do you use the aoaoao zip & if so, how long has it worked for you??.....or anyone else.....has it been completely turned off for months now with NO HASSLE???

thanks
Mike
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post #275 of 859 Old 01-24-2006, 07:05 PM
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Yes, I used the Canada zip code, no hassle, since November.
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post #276 of 859 Old 01-24-2006, 07:16 PM
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Thanks Bob

Im reading this eureka thread right now......seems some guys are still cacklin about problems, like it recording in wrong modes, or trying to come back ect......but maybe they arent working it right, who knows......anyways, i would buy the 520 w/an 80gig HD, but i cant find 1 anywhere online....strange, the only thing different with the 520 is NO EPG.....hmmmmmmm....hahaha
But i really do like the 633 too, but i have 1 (you Bob) telling me EPG can be disabled without a hitch.....hmmmm hahaha......WHAT TO DO!!!!!.......laffs

Mike
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post #277 of 859 Old 01-25-2006, 05:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diesel_73 View Post

Hellooo
Ive been reading this forum for 6 weeks now, I have been wanting to buy a DVD recorder with a hard drive, and i narrowed it down to a panasonic E95 or a Pioneer 633.....seems to me they are both junk because of the TV guide problem!!!!!!
So ive joined the forum now, and this is my conclusion......

EITHER BUY A PIONEER 520 WITH NO TV GUIDE, because i dont want it anyways, i have directtv.....or wait until something new and better comes out......Can you turn the dang TV guide off or what????......thats all i would wanna do, is just eliminate it.....is it possible???......

Thanks
appreciate your comments
Mike

The TVGOS EPG on the Panasonic EH-50 (2005 model) can be easily disabled without the use of a work-around such as "Eureka".

RG
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post #278 of 859 Old 01-25-2006, 08:43 AM
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Originally Posted by sderby View Post

I think he's just making sure you can latch onto the most powerful host station in your area. To clear the host channel that your TVGOS has memorized, just change the ZIP code or enter the reset code for TVGOS. This is one of the FAQ's I've included at http://tvgos.theabsolutenuts.com/ (the unofficial help guide).

I understand the intent, I just question the validity of the instructions. I have 2 PBS stations: Channels 7 and 12. The host channel is always set to Channel 7. Now the theory is that if in the TVGOS channel setup I turn off Channel 7, move Channel 12 right next to channel 7 and change the "tune to channel" to 7 that somehow the unit will now capture the TVGOS info from channel 12. This is absolutely false. The only way to do this is to reset the Program Guide using the special code. Then do a hard reset of the machine. Durring the initial setup after it has scanned all the channels, go back and using the manual channel setup turn off Channel 7 (or whichever channel you do not wish to download the TVGOS from). Now that channel is completely turned off in the tuner and the unit is unable to use that channel for viewing, recording or downloading. The TVGOS should not even see that channel as an option and should default to the next PBS channel in your linup that carries the signal. The host channel should now be set to a channel other than the one you turned off in the Tuner Setup.
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post #279 of 859 Old 01-25-2006, 10:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DayTrader View Post

I understand the intent, I just question the validity of the instructions. I have 2 PBS stations: Channels 7 and 12. The host channel is always set to Channel 7. Now the theory is that if in the TVGOS channel setup I turn off Channel 7, move Channel 12 right next to channel 7 and change the "tune to channel" to 7 that somehow the unit will now capture the TVGOS info from channel 12. This is absolutely false. The only way to do this is to reset the Program Guide using the special code. Then do a hard reset of the machine. Durring the initial setup after it has scanned all the channels, go back and using the manual channel setup turn off Channel 7 (or whichever channel you do not wish to download the TVGOS from). Now that channel is completely turned off in the tuner and the unit is unable to use that channel for viewing, recording or downloading. The TVGOS should not even see that channel as an option and should default to the next PBS channel in your linup that carries the signal. The host channel should now be set to a channel other than the one you turned off in the Tuner Setup.

I don't understand all this talk of "turning TVGOS channels off". When you turn off a channel from the TVGOS setup, all that does is prevent the download of program info for that channel. The channel can still be accessed by the recorder's tuner, so it isn't really off, just lacks program info, and can't be used to set a recording. If the TVGOS host channels is "turned off" this way, the TVGOS can still access the EPG data by tuning to that channel.

It would be very foolish to require a station to be "turned on" in the TVGOS setup in order to download the EPG data. If that were the case, then unless the host channel was among those "turned on", you would never download any EPG data. In other words, the TVGOS would be held hostage to the whims of the user's choice of channels.

Does anyone have information from the TVGOS support people that the method of turning host channels off in the TVGOS results in better reception of the EPG data. If so, please post it here. As far as I know, they only recommend trying a different zip code to improve the guide.

RG
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post #280 of 859 Old 01-25-2006, 11:20 AM
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Originally Posted by treedmack View Post

When I lost my EPG data that is when I got the reset of my DVR clock to GMT. usually after a full day.

Before, I was getting some sort of signal, but then it did the changing of the clock to GMT. Now, I don't get anything.
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post #281 of 859 Old 01-25-2006, 12:39 PM
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Originally Posted by wabjxo View Post

I think you're confused...one of my posts suggests turning your HOST channel off, but that's only for those who DO NOT want EPG to work. I think you made my point when you said:

My other post suggests having only ONE PBS station on at a time if you actually want EPG to work. (Some people have two if their coverage area overlaps with another PBS NOC). Also, it suggests you can interchange PBS stations in your channel list, which worked for me and may work for others -- IF SOMEONE -ANYONE - EVER GETS PAST THIS THEORETICAL DEBATE AND TRIES IT!

You can test the uniqueness of PBS channels yourself. Try to turn yours OFF, then turn unit off, then on, and see if you have actually turned it off. You should still be able to get to it via the channel up/down button. Try that with a commercial channel and you will actually skip that channel. (OF COURSE, you can still access it via the number buttons and see its programming, etc.)

That's not the point...something goes beyond theory and actually changes EPG behavior when you "fine tune" your PBS stations, and the most powerful PBS stations seem to always work best...assuming you actually want EPG to work. If you don't want or need EPG at all, try the Host Chan OFF approach.

Will someone please try one of these, any one, they're just ideas that work for me (I've actually witnessed them) and may work for you...and I'll say it again: THEY'RE ABSOLUTELY FREE AND SIMPLE TO DO AND UNDO!!!

I think we need to be clear about "turning on and off channels". There are two places where you can turn channels off and on.
1. The Automatic and Manual Tuner Setup under the Initial Settings menu. There are two methods by which you can have the unit scan for channels, Manual or Automatic. When you first setup the unit you probably used the Automatic Scan which automatically "turned on" all channels that were available via your cable connection. Subsequently you can then utilize the Manual Setup for each individual channel you wish to skip (turn off). For example you may not want to have Telemundo available when channel surfing. Utilizing the Manual Channel Setup you can tune to that station then select skip. This channel will no longer be available at all. You cannot tune to it and it will subsequently be unavailable in the TVGOS. You will no longer be able to use this method to manually Skip channels after you have setup the TVGOS. If you have already setup the TVGOS then you will need to reset the TVGOS using the special remote code then you will have to perform a hard reset of the unit using the Power and Stop buttons.
2. The second way to turn channels on and off is though the Channel Display setting within the TVGOS. This will in no way effect the Host Channel that is used to download TVGOS info. It will only effect which channels are displayed in the Listings section of the TVGOS.

If you wish to change the Host Channel then you should use the 1st method to manually skip the PBS channel you do not want TVGOS to utilize.
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post #282 of 859 Old 01-25-2006, 07:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DayTrader View Post

I think we need to be clear about "turning on and off channels". There are two places where you can turn channels off and on.
1. The Automatic and Manual Tuner Setup under the Initial Settings menu. There are two methods by which you can have the unit scan for channels, Manual or Automatic. When you first setup the unit you probably used the Automatic Scan which automatically "turned on" all channels that were available via your cable connection. Subsequently you can then utilize the Manual Setup for each individual channel you wish to skip (turn off). For example you may not want to have Telemundo available when channel surfing. Utilizing the Manual Channel Setup you can tune to that station then select skip. This channel will no longer be available at all. You cannot tune to it and it will subsequently be unavailable in the TVGOS. You will no longer be able to use this method to manually Skip channels after you have setup the TVGOS. If you have already setup the TVGOS then you will need to reset the TVGOS using the special remote code then you will have to perform a hard reset of the unit using the Power and Stop buttons.
2. The second way to turn channels on and off is though the Channel Display setting within the TVGOS. This will in no way effect the Host Channel that is used to download TVGOS info. It will only effect which channels are displayed in the Listings section of the TVGOS.

If you wish to change the Host Channel then you should use the 1st method to manually skip the PBS channel you do not want TVGOS to utilize.

I will try #2 first, then #1 when I get a chance. I'll report back as to whether or not the host channel changes.

RG
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post #283 of 859 Old 01-26-2006, 06:05 AM
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Originally Posted by rgazzara View Post

I will try #2 first, then #1 when I get a chance. I'll report back as to whether or not the host channel changes.

You missed the point AGAIN!

Besides, your machines are PANASONIC and your Host Chan is NOT a PBS STATION (as you've said).

I've been trying to get any other PIONEER 531/533/633 user to try fine tuning their PBS Host CHANNEL by using different PBS STATIONS (apparently widely used in this PIONEER system) for either effect: NO TVG info or MORE STABLE TVG info. That would be a direct, "apples-to-apples" comparison.

However, other Pioneer users might as well NOT try #2 also since it will not "CHANGE" the Host CHANNEL, as YOU said, but it will/should, somehow, make EPG act differently in a Pioneer 531/533/633 system, as I have said, depending on what you do with the Host CHANNEL/STATION relationship.

If you turn OFF your Host CHANNEL, it should make your TVGOS info disappear after a day or two, and quiet your EPG down (for those who actually don't need/want EPG). It should result in "No Listing" in all days BUT no unwanted side effects (channels, clock, "rebuilding", etc.) which seem to occur with other, more drastic methods for trying to defeat EPG.

Again, simply turning the Host CHANNEL OFF in the simple and benign way I suggested was never claimed to "CHANGE" the Host CHANNEL, only EPG's behavior. This same effect can also be seen in switching PBS STATIONS for BETTER stability for those who want the opposite result (i.e., a more stable EPG).

It was only yours and Daytrader's misinterpretations that made those ideas not worthy of even trying!

I've run my experiment here and got "No Listing" and a tame EPG by turning OFF my perfectly working Host CHANNEL in the Change channel display menu. Now, I've switched my Host CHANNEL back ON and TVGOS is starting to repopulate again.

When I say Host "channel" I mean just that: I picked one of my four PBS STATIONS (not "channels") in the OFF section of my channel list to tune to my sole, assigned Host "channel" slot (Ch. 10), and I could have chosen any of the four STATIONS...it doesn't have to be the one my cable company picked for me (antenna fire, half-power, bad TVG)...they're all the same signal in my PBS NOC-controlled state. I use one of the most powerful in my state since I've actually experienced the effect of station power on TVG stability. No theory there!

Such a simple procedure, and all that time, my Host Chan remained intact in the debug screen (Ch. 10). Once again, it WILL NOT "change" the Host CHANNEL, only its behavior!!!

People with two actual CHANNELS of PBS may need to turn one off since multiple PBS STATIONS, all within my State, ON in the same channel slot at the same time made my TVG work poorly, and eventually start losing TVG info. If you have two actual PBS CHANNELS, you may even be receiving one from your state and one from another state. Since PBS/PTV is operationally State-oriented, those signals may not be exactly the same in the TVGOS area and cause interference (who knows for sure?)? In either case, multiple PBS CHANNELS or STATIONS ON at the same time may cause TVGOS long-term stability problems.

It's very possible that, by actually deleting/skipping your Host CHANNEL via manual channel setup (Daytrader's #1 method), you might get no EPG action at all...or you might turn your machine into a "grinder" searching in vain for data...somewhere...anywhere! If you don't want EPG, that might be a solution...or not...but I won't do that test since my EPG works perfectly and I want TVGOS to work. Someone in the Eureka thread might be interested in the manual-delete-Host-CHANNEL method.

I hope this is clear to other Pioneer readers now, but please don't try this at home! I used only professional, highly skilled technicians. It was extremely difficult, expensive, and time-consuming...and it is theoretically impossible to have any effect anyway!
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post #284 of 859 Old 01-26-2006, 09:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wabjxo View Post

You missed the point AGAIN!

Besides, your machines are PANASONIC and your Host Chan is NOT a PBS STATION (as you've said).

I've been trying to get any other PIONEER 531/533/633 user to try fine tuning their PBS Host CHANNEL by using different PBS STATIONS (apparently widely used in this PIONEER system) for either effect: NO TVG info or MORE STABLE TVG info. That would be a direct, "apples-to-apples" comparison.

The host channel that carries TVGOS EPG data is determined by an arrangement between TVGOS and the host channel. It has nothing at all to do with Pioneer!!! In addition, it should be identical for any DVD recorder that uses the TVGOS. Therefore it makes no difference whether the test is performed on a Pioneer or a Panasonic recorder.

Why does this particular test require a PBS host channel? The TVGOS does not differentiate between PBS and non-PBS host channels. It either is or isn't a host channel, period.

You seen to be claiming that your test will only work in states where there is one central PBS network that distributes programs to feeder stations. If that is the case, the the results will be worthless to the huge number of people who live in a state that has multiple independent PBS stations, such as PA and NY to name a couple.

Since I get my TVGOS EPG data from 2 commercial channels (ABC and CBS), I will try also turning off both channels on my Panasonic recorder, to see what happens to the TVGOS. Although you might not be interested in the results, others may.

RG
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post #285 of 859 Old 01-26-2006, 09:36 AM
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Originally Posted by rgazzara View Post

The host channel that carries TVGOS EPG data is determined by an arrangement between TVGOS and the host channel. It has nothing at all to do with Pioneer!!! In addition, it should be identical for any DVD recorder that uses the TVGOS. Therefore it makes no difference whether the test is performed on a Pioneer or a Panasonic recorder.

Why does this particular test require a PBS host channel? The TVGOS does not differentiate between PBS and non-PBS host channels. It either is or isn't a host channel, period.

You seen to be claiming that your test will only work in states where there is one central PBS network that distributes programs to feeder stations. If that is the case, the the results will be worthless to the huge number of people who live in a state that has multiple independent PBS stations, such as PA and NY to name a couple.

Since I get my TVGOS EPG data from 2 commercial channels (ABC and CBS), I will try also turning off both channels on my Panasonic recorder, to see what happens to the TVGOS. Although you might not be interested in the results, others may.

I understand the Host CHANNEL is "hard-wired," probably via a Zip Code data table, and that's probably why you can't actually prevent it from being viewed using the normal CHANNEL up/down button after you "turn it OFF." (You can with non-Host CHANNELS.) The system doesn't want you to turn the designated Host CHANNEL OFF. This, so far, has nothing to do with STATIONS.

I also think you are still, again, missing the point of PBS STATIONS (emphasis intended) being interchanged in your designated Host CHANNEL (emphasis intended) slot...ON PIONEER machines. Virtually "all" PBS stations are "independent" (affiliates) and there are at least 26 states with multiple, independent PBS STATIONS, with different Call Signs (therefore a NOC may be involved), except that independence does not extend to their ability to broadcast completely independent programming...that right generally applies only to each State's PTV org (so they can localize content for that State's residents).

The first step in my procedure has always been to determine your Host CHANNEL (not STATION), then see if that is or is not a PBS/PTV/EDU STATION. So far, people with these PIONEER systems all report that PBS is, indeed, their Host STATION, delivered thru CHANNEL X. I don't know, maybe they're fibbing for effect!? If they happen to be in a multi-STATION state (more than 26 of them), they MIGHT have choices...that's it! Not a big deal!

Apparently, I'm not going to be able to stop a PANASONIC user from trying to convince PIONEER users not to even TRY an as-yet-untested-by-anyone-else-in-the-known-world TVGOS workaround for their PBS-based systems, so, peace be to you...and surely enough said on THIS subject!

Except...somehow, I know that's not good enough for you. I expect you to test your PANASONICS and their COMMERCIAL Host channels/stations and report that it doesn't work! Stay tuned, folks. I'll try not to respond, which will hopefully put this subject to bed for good!?
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post #286 of 859 Old 01-26-2006, 08:50 PM
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Originally Posted by rgazzara View Post

The host channel that carries TVGOS EPG data is determined by an arrangement between TVGOS and the host channel.

PIONEER USERS: please don't confuse CHANNELS with STATIONS as seen here.

CHANNELS can't make "arrangements," don't "carry" anything, and certainly don't "broadcast"...they are FCC-designated, numbered-for-convenience "slots" in the transmission bandwidth and in your tuner thru which your cable company or antenna delivers programming broadcast by the various STATIONS.

For Cable subscribers, CHANNEL number assigments are determined by your particular cable company. My cable company delivers my Host STATION's signal thru CHANNEL 10 (one of many "slots" in the tuner)...your Host CHANNEL could be Ch. 27, 12, 18, ? They can assign a STATION's normal CHANNEL number, such as WSRE Ch. 23, to actually be delivered thru tuner CHANNEL 4. Some CHANNELS actually match up to a STATION's normal Ch. # (Believe It or Not!).

Your Host CHANNEL will be where TVGOS will look for its info. You don't need to know or care about how or when that Host CHANNEL or the STATION for that channel is "selected" or by whom...you only need to know what your Host CHANNEL number is. You can find that via the debug screens.

Then you can look in your "Change channel display" list and find the STATION Call Sign that's being delivered thru your Host CHANNEL. Mine shows "WAIQ" (in the left portion of the top bar) as the STATION broadcasting thru my CHANNEL 10.

Pioneer users will probably have a PBS/PTV/EDU type STATION, again, selected by your cable company, being delivered thru that CHANNEL on your tuner. Although they "selected" WAIQ for my Channel 10, I can change that STATION (not the CHANNEL) with identical programming since it's a PBS STATION and I have three other Alabama PTV/PBS STATIONS (OFF) in my channel list. This part really escapes those who have never tried switching PBS STATIONS!

AND...I don't really care how, when or who made arrangements to deliver TVGOS data from the STATION to my DVR! Someone else can figure out the operational theories later, if they care to!

Strange how a simple PRAGMATIC test has turned into a breathtaking review of operational THEORIES, with CHANNELS making arrangements, etc. Next thing you know, CHANNELS will actually be "broadcasting" (sderby, where did you go?) and we'll all have to throw away our obsolete DVRs!
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post #287 of 859 Old 01-26-2006, 09:41 PM
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Originally Posted by wabjxo View Post

I understand the Host CHANNEL is "hard-wired," probably via a Zip Code data table, and that's probably why you can't actually prevent it from being viewed using the normal CHANNEL up/down button after you "turn it OFF."

This is not true. A recorder equipped with TVGOS searches through all the tunable channels looking for any that carry data. People who use an IR blaster to allow the recorder to control their cable boxes can see the recorder changing the channels as it scans. Once it finds a channel that has EPG data which includes listings for the entered zip/postal code, it then stays tuned to that channel to receive the information. Again, those using an IR blaster can observe this behaviour on their cable box when they turn off their recorder.

It's impractical to have the recorder "know" ahead of time which channel carries the data because Gemstar's contracts with broadcasters change from time to time and therefore the "host" channel can (and does) change. If this information was hardwired in the recorder then there would be no way to pick up new data after such a change.
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post #288 of 859 Old 01-26-2006, 10:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Sean Nelson View Post

If this information was hardwired in the recorder then there would be no way to pick up new data after such a change.

And it continues.... Did you notice the quotation marks around my "hard-wired" and then the note on the possibility of a data table lookup?

Obviously, the DVR doesn't have a wire connected to a channel designating it as the Host!

Please, can't we stop attacking the periphery of a simple, two-step test!? All it's doing is confusing other people (readers) who might want to try the test...and for all of us who, by now, have forgotten what the test is, here are the two steps:

NOTE: these are only for "dissatisfied" PIONEER users with a PBS/PTV-type STATION in their Host Chan slot, and with an RF cable on the RF IN connector of their DVR.

1-If you want TVG to work better, switch your PBS STATION assigned to your Host CHANNEL with one in the OFF section of your channel list. (Turn OFF the previous STATION in that CHANNEL.)

2-If you want to have TVG with "No Listing" continuously and possibly tame its activity, turn your Host CHANNEL OFF.

Understanding Theory of Operation is important sometimes, but not in this case!
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post #289 of 859 Old 01-27-2006, 05:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wabjxo View Post

And it continues.... Did you notice the quotation marks around my "hard-wired" and then the note on the possibility of a data table lookup?

Actually, each host station pretty much continually broadcasts a list of ZIP codes that it carries data for in the VBI. Your TVGOS station scans through channels until it finds a channel broadcasting data on VBI line 14. When it finds one, it pauses and reads the ZIP code data. If one of the "service" ZIP codes matches your configured ZIP code, TVGOS stays on that channel and waits for channel lineup data. If there is no match, it resumes searching.

You seem to believe that all host stations carry the same EPG data. That's not the case. Each TVGOS host station only carries data for a limited number of ZIP codes in its area. Even if you can tune several different host stations, it is likely that only one of them will have data for your ZIP. There is very little overlap between host stations.

As for multi-station PBS states, it's irrelevant. The EPG data is not inserted at the level of PBS. It is inserted locally by VBI inserters at the local stations, regardless of whether they are affiliated with PBS or some other network. When Gemstar contracts with a host station, they are basically renting space in the host station's rack. They provide (and maintain ownership of) the VBI inserter which downloads region-specific information each night and inserts it into the station's VBI before transmitting the signal. So even if you have multiple PBS stations in your area, it is unlikely that all of them carry TVGOS data and those that do are probably carrying TVGOS data for different ZIPs.

And, on a side-note, California is a multi-PBS-station state, obviously. I can pull two PBS affiliates over cable or OTA and they do not have the same programming.

I know you said you don't care about the theory of operation, but if you change your mind, feel free to read some of the material at http://tvgos.theabsolutenuts.com/ It explains how TVGOS works and offers some troubleshooting tips that may or may not help you.
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post #290 of 859 Old 01-27-2006, 05:37 AM
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I understand the Host CHANNEL is "hard-wired," probably via a Zip Code data table, and that's probably why you can't actually prevent it from being viewed using the normal CHANNEL up/down button after you "turn it OFF." (You can with non-Host CHANNELS.) The system doesn't want you to turn the designated Host CHANNEL OFF. This, so far, has nothing to do with STATIONS.

I also think you are still, again, missing the point of PBS STATIONS (emphasis intended) being interchanged in your designated Host CHANNEL (emphasis intended) slot...ON PIONEER machines. Virtually "all" PBS stations are "independent" (affiliates) and there are at least 26 states with multiple, independent PBS STATIONS, with different Call Signs (therefore a NOC may be involved), except that independence does not extend to their ability to broadcast completely independent programming...that right generally applies only to each State's PTV org (so they can localize content for that State's residents).

The first step in my procedure has always been to determine your Host CHANNEL (not STATION), then see if that is or is not a PBS/PTV/EDU STATION. So far, people with these PIONEER systems all report that PBS is, indeed, their Host STATION, delivered thru CHANNEL X. I don't know, maybe they're fibbing for effect!? If they happen to be in a multi-STATION state (more than 26 of them), they MIGHT have choices...that's it! Not a big deal!

Apparently, I'm not going to be able to stop a PANASONIC user from trying to convince PIONEER users not to even TRY an as-yet-untested-by-anyone-else-in-the-known-world TVGOS workaround for their PBS-based systems, so, peace be to you...and surely enough said on THIS subject!

Except...somehow, I know that's not good enough for you. I expect you to test your PANASONICS and their COMMERCIAL Host channels/stations and report that it doesn't work! Stay tuned, folks. I'll try not to respond, which will hopefully put this subject to bed for good!?

The TVGOS system calls it the "host channel", I'm just using their terminology.

By the way, I turned off the ABC station that is my TVGOS host channel and it was skipped using channel up/down.

RG
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post #291 of 859 Old 01-27-2006, 05:42 AM
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This is not true. A recorder equipped with TVGOS searches through all the tunable channels looking for any that carry data. People who use an IR blaster to allow the recorder to control their cable boxes can see the recorder changing the channels as it scans. Once it finds a channel that has EPG data which includes listings for the entered zip/postal code, it then stays tuned to that channel to receive the information. Again, those using an IR blaster can observe this behaviour on their cable box when they turn off their recorder.

It's impractical to have the recorder "know" ahead of time which channel carries the data because Gemstar's contracts with broadcasters change from time to time and therefore the "host" channel can (and does) change. If this information was hardwired in the recorder then there would be no way to pick up new data after such a change.

I agree with Sean. It would be impractical and downright unusable if the TVGOS host channel was fixed. The TVGOS searches for a host channel, and when it is found, it downloads the EPG. That's why I think your "weak PBS host station" theory has flaws. If the TVGOS could not download the EPG from a host channel because the signal was weak, it would continue to search until it found one with a strong enough signal to allow the download.

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post #292 of 859 Old 01-27-2006, 05:47 AM
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Actually, each host station pretty much continually broadcasts a list of ZIP codes that it carries data for in the VBI. Your TVGOS station scans through channels until it finds a channel broadcasting data on VBI line 14. When it finds one, it pauses and reads the ZIP code data. If one of the "service" ZIP codes matches your configured ZIP code, TVGOS stays on that channel and waits for channel lineup data. If there is no match, it resumes searching.

You seem to believe that all host stations carry the same EPG data. That's not the case. Each TVGOS host station only carries data for a limited number of ZIP codes in its area. Even if you can tune several different host stations, it is likely that only one of them will have data for your ZIP. There is very little overlap between host stations.

As for multi-station PBS states, it's irrelevant. The EPG data is not inserted at the level of PBS. It is inserted locally by VBI inserters at the local stations, regardless of whether they are affiliated with PBS or some other network. When Gemstar contracts with a host station, they are basically renting space in the host station's rack. They provide (and maintain ownership of) the VBI inserter which downloads region-specific information each night and inserts it into the station's VBI before transmitting the signal. So even if you have multiple PBS stations in your area, it is unlikely that all of them carry TVGOS data and those that do are probably carrying TVGOS data for different ZIPs.

And, on a side-note, California is a multi-PBS-station state, obviously. I can pull two PBS affiliates over cable or OTA and they do not have the same programming.

I know you said you don't care about the theory of operation, but if you change your mind, feel free to read some of the material at http://tvgos.theabsolutenuts.com/ It explains how TVGOS works and offers some troubleshooting tips that may or may not help you.

I agree with most of what you say. Except that there are instances where the EPG data for a zipcode can be carried by more than 1 host channel. I receive my EPG data from 2 Philly local commercial stations, the ABC and the CBS stations.

Additional information about how the TVGOS system is implemented can be found here: http://www.dvdplusrw.org/Article.asp...&sid=-1&aid=79

RG
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post #293 of 859 Old 01-27-2006, 05:53 AM
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Originally Posted by wabjxo View Post

The first step in my procedure has always been to determine your Host CHANNEL (not STATION), then see if that is or is not a PBS/PTV/EDU STATION. So far, people with these PIONEER systems all report that PBS is, indeed, their Host STATION, delivered thru CHANNEL X. I don't know, maybe they're fibbing for effect!? If they happen to be in a multi-STATION state (more than 26 of them), they MIGHT have choices...that's it! Not a big deal!

Is that true? Is wabjxo speaking for all users of Pioneer DVD recorders with TVGOS. Do you ALL have a PBS station as your TVGOS host channel? Please speak up. I am particularly interested in hearing from Pioneer users in the Philly area. Is your TVGOS host channel a PBS station?

RG
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post #294 of 859 Old 01-27-2006, 07:11 AM
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I agree with most of what you say. Except that there are instances where the EPG data for a zipcode can be carried by more than 1 host channel. I receive my EPG data from 2 Philly local commercial stations, the ABC and the CBS stations.

Correct. There are some markets that have some overlap, but in general it's kept to a minimum. In my area, for example, I can tune two host stations and there doesn't seem to be any overlap at all. Wabjxo seemed to be under the mistaken impression that all PBS stations in the same state carry the same EPG data.
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post #295 of 859 Old 01-27-2006, 07:21 AM
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My situation:
Everything worked perfectly fine up until about a week ago
Then the grid had "no listing" in every cell
I changed the zip code, and then changed it back
Still says rebuilding info 72 hours later
I have program info since I can search and get program info (episode summaries, etc) , but nothing in the listings screen.
Over the air, most stations come in fine.

How do you get into debug mode? I searched and could not find out how.

Brian
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post #296 of 859 Old 01-27-2006, 07:43 AM
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My situation:
How do you get into debug mode? I searched and could not find out how.

Try the troubleshooting tips at http://tvgos.theabsolutenuts.com/ and see if any of them help you. There's a description of the debug mode on the Technical FAQ page at that site as well.
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post #297 of 859 Old 01-27-2006, 09:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean Nelson View Post

If this information was hardwired in the recorder then there would be no way to pick up new data after such a change.

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Originally Posted by wabjxo View Post

And it continues.... Did you notice the quotation marks around my "hard-wired" and then the note on the possibility of a data table lookup?

Obviously, the DVR doesn't have a wire connected to a channel designating it as the Host!

My point had nothing to do with physical wiring. What I was saying was that the recorder does not contain a table of which channel to tune to to get EPG info. It searches through all the tunable channels to find one carrying the data. This is the only practical way to do it given that it has work in hundreds or thousands of constantly changing markets all over North America.

Just trying to prevent the spread of misinformation...
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post #298 of 859 Old 01-27-2006, 09:35 AM
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Originally Posted by sderby View Post

Try the troubleshooting tips at http://tvgos.theabsolutenuts.com/ and see if any of them help you. There's a description of the debug mode on the Technical FAQ page at that site as well.

The section on entering the code to access the TVGOS debug screens is correct for some DVD recorders, but not others. For example, on Panasonic recorders (at least on my E-500 and E-65) the code for entry is correct, but does not work if you use the "Setup" tab. You have to scroll to the "Messages" tab, click enter on the remote, and then enter the code (753159852).

RG
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post #299 of 859 Old 01-27-2006, 05:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean Nelson View Post

My point had nothing to do with physical wiring. What I was saying was that the recorder does not contain a table of which channel to tune to to get EPG info. It searches through all the tunable channels to find one carrying the data. This is the only practical way to do it given that it has work in hundreds or thousands of constantly changing markets all over North America.

Just trying to prevent the spread of misinformation...

Excuse me, but who said the data table was in the recorder??????????

Answer: Only YOU!

Read it again!
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post #300 of 859 Old 01-27-2006, 06:21 PM
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Originally Posted by rgazzara View Post

The section on entering the code to access the TVGOS debug screens is correct for some DVD recorders, but not others. For example, on Panasonic recorders (at least on my E-500 and E-65) the code for entry is correct, but does not work if you use the "Setup" tab. You have to scroll to the "Messages" tab, click enter on the remote, and then enter the code (753159852).

Thanks for the info! I'll update the site to reflect that.
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