Pioneer Disappearing EPG - Page 7 - AVS Forum
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post #181 of 859 Old 01-05-2006, 11:52 AM
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Originally Posted by DayTrader View Post

OK...upon additional review of my settings, it looks like the VBI channel is set to whatever I have tuned but the Host Channel is always tuned to Channel 7 which is my local PBS station. Now channel 12 is the other PBS station I have which has a stronger signal and also carries the time signal. I'd like to have the unit use this channel as the host channel but I can't seem to make that happen. Even if I turn Channel 7 off in the channel display setting it still uses it. Is there any way to change this?

If you change the zip code in setup, it will clear the host channel and TVGOS will start searching for a new one. To keep it from re-finding the old one, you may have to turn that channel "off" in your device (if there's a way to set channels on and off in that device).

If all else fails, you can reset TVGOS entirely by entering TVGOS, highlighting "Setup," pressing the "down" key, then keying "653274147" on your remote. If you have the latest firmware revision, this will reset the clock and host channel, but it should preserve any listings currently loaded into the guide.
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post #182 of 859 Old 01-05-2006, 11:54 AM
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Originally Posted by aydu View Post

It is a problem with the TVGOS software. TVGOS is aware of the problem, but has no timeline for a fix.

Even if there was a fix for the software problem, it seems that there is no possibility of performing a firmware upgrade to the pioneer 531/533/633 models to correct this problem. Does this mean we are indefinitely stuck with this? I think I read somewhere in the manual that a firmware upgrade required that these units be brought in an performed by a technician. How ridiculous!
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post #183 of 859 Old 01-05-2006, 11:57 AM
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Originally Posted by DayTrader View Post

Yes I am receiving updates but its taking a long time for all 8 days to come in. Much longer then when I initially setup the unit. Since channel 12 has a much stronger signal (better picture) and also provides the auto clock adjust feed then I'd like to try to set it as the host channel to see if the TVGOS listings download faster.

For what it's worth, it should take exactly 6 days to get a full 8 days of listings. Each program listing download retrieves today's listings, tomorrow's listings and the listings for one week from today. Is it taking longer than 6 days to get a full week's worth of listings?
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post #184 of 859 Old 01-05-2006, 12:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by treedmack View Post

Even if there was a fix for the software problem, it seems that there is no possibility of performing a firmware upgrade to the pioneer 531/533/633 models to correct this problem. Does this mean we are indefinitely stuck with this? I think I read somewhere in the manual that a firmware upgrade required that these units be brought in an performed by a technician. How ridiculous!

Firmware upgrades for the TVGOS chip are sent in the VBI just like the program listings. Even if those devices can't be upgraded, TVGOS will still upgrade itself automatically. Back in March or April, there was a flurry of TVGOS upgrades sent out, but I don't think there's been any recently. The latest firmware version is (I think) 8.2.44. Of course, the downside is that if your device can't find a host station in the first place, it won't be downloading very many upgrades!
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post #185 of 859 Old 01-05-2006, 12:30 PM
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Originally Posted by sderby View Post

Firmware upgrades for the TVGOS chip are sent in the VBI just like the program listings. Even if those devices can't be upgraded, TVGOS will still upgrade itself automatically. Back in March or April, there was a flurry of TVGOS upgrades sent out, but I don't think there's been any recently. The latest firmware version is (I think) 8.2.44. Of course, the downside is that if your device can't find a host station in the first place, it won't be downloading very many upgrades!

Thanks for the info. Does the TVGOS version number appear on the debug screens? I'd check but I'm in my 26th consecutive hour of standby mode :-)
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post #186 of 859 Old 01-05-2006, 12:59 PM
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Originally Posted by treedmack View Post

Thanks for the info. Does the TVGOS version number appear on the debug screens? I'd check but I'm in my 26th consecutive hour of standby mode :-)

Heh! That's a lot of standby! The version number should be on the first page of the debug screen. It'll list the revision number, build date and a few other things.
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post #187 of 859 Old 01-05-2006, 01:15 PM
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Originally Posted by sderby View Post

Heh! That's a lot of standby! The version number should be on the first page of the debug screen. It'll list the revision number, build date and a few other things.

I've tried everything else I could. Some of us now are suspecting problems in the signal transmission through our cable company - it worked well for me in the past and now, nothing for the past month.
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post #188 of 859 Old 01-05-2006, 01:50 PM
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Originally Posted by treedmack View Post

I've tried everything else I could. Some of us now are suspecting problems in the signal transmission through our cable company - it worked well for me in the past and now, nothing for the past month.

If it helps, program listings are transmitted four times daily by pretty much all stations that don't go off the air at night: at 2:20am, 7:00am, 10:00am and 1:45pm (all local time). Each transmission lasts about 3 hours and they're redundant -- all four in the same day carry the same information. As long as the device is in standby late at night, it should pick up the data. (Other data is transmitted at other times -- program guide revisions, firmware upgrades, channel lineups, etc.)

If you suspect the cable company has putzed things up, you might try using an OTA antenna just to see if you get EPG data. If you get it with an OTA antenna, that's telling. Some cable companies are switching over to all digital channels these days and, since the EPG data is carried on analog channels, that breaks TVGOS.
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post #189 of 859 Old 01-05-2006, 02:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wabjxo View Post

According to the Wikipedia link above, EPG is a DTV thing. It does discuss some analog systems, but mainly in addition to DTV.

On digital channels, some program information can be (but rarely is) transmitted with the PSID, but this is not the information used by TVGOS. TVGOS uses only the Gemstar data included in the VBI of their host stations' analog transmissions. (Otherwise it couldn't be used with OTA antennae

When cable companies switch to all-digital lineups (as more and more are doing), they'll often leave in one solitary analog PBS channel solely because it's necessary for TVGOS to work. Comcast in part of Michigan recently did this when they switch to all-digital. Another workaround is for the cable company to re-insert the VBI from the analog channel into the digital transmission. Time Warner Cable in New York does this.

The thing is, though, that cable companies don't make their decisions with TVGOS in mind. Generally what happens is the cable company switches to an all-digital lineup, then a bunch of customers start complaining that their TVGOS stopped working, then after a lot of clowning around, the cable company institutes a workaround (like bringing one analog channel back).
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post #190 of 859 Old 01-05-2006, 04:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wabjxo View Post

Here's a link for you and others who have KCTS PBS Seattle as their EPG source, and may explain why y'all are having trouble. They don't transmit Guide + data, which in the built-into-the-DVR EPG and which is transmitted via commercial networks! They also say they transmit Starsight (Gemstar) data stream, which a SUBSCRFIPTION service.

It also discusses the Time Signal.


Interesting indeed. If KCTS is not transmitting Guide+ data, and doesn't transmit the Gemstar TVGOS signal, well, that may be our culprit here.

I guess the key question really is, which broadcaster changed things a month ago? I guess I'll be getting on Pioneer's and Gemstar's case.
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post #191 of 859 Old 01-05-2006, 06:30 PM
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Well, to follow up for treedmack and myself, both living in Victoria...

I left my Pioneer unit alone for 48 hours. Checking on it, the time had not changed from when I set it to automatically check against channel 19 KCTS.

Start the unit up, no guide. Surf around the TV for 10 minutes, check the guide again, search listings, nothing.

Check the debug screens, no host channel listed. VBI data screens say all 0s or NA

The system screen says a number of 08.01.53/00 00 00 00 00 00 006A7F000640000
then a build time Jun 01 2005 20:07:05
P: 00000000,0,-1/0,-1

Dunno what that indicates.

Interestingly, I hit the button to go back in to standby... The display says POWERING OFF (??)

A few seconds later, it does, EPG displays in the right... but my time is now 8 hours off, set to GMT!

Start the unit back up, the time is still the same, but I can no longer set the time thru the AUTO setting, as it is greyed out.


I'm starting to think Gemstar is the issue here.
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post #192 of 859 Old 01-05-2006, 07:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jicon View Post

Well, to follow up for treedmack and myself, both living in Victoria...

I left my Pioneer unit alone for 48 hours. Checking on it, the time had not changed from when I set it to automatically check against channel 19 KCTS.

Start the unit up, no guide. Surf around the TV for 10 minutes, check the guide again, search listings, nothing.

Check the debug screens, no host channel listed. VBI data screens say all 0s or NA

The system screen says a number of 08.01.53/00 00 00 00 00 00 006A7F000640000
then a build time Jun 01 2005 20:07:05
P: 00000000,0,-1/0,-1

Dunno what that indicates.

Interestingly, I hit the button to go back in to standby... The display says POWERING OFF (??)

A few seconds later, it does, EPG displays in the right... but my time is now 8 hours off, set to GMT!

Start the unit back up, the time is still the same, but I can no longer set the time thru the AUTO setting, as it is greyed out.


I'm starting to think Gemstar is the issue here.

OK. After jicon's post I decided to turn my 533 back on after 31hrs on standby.

I got exactly the same behaviour!!!

One other thing to note. When i turned on the DVR my clock on the display showed the correct local time (7:03pm PT). However, the time in the debug screes was GMT (3:03am). When I turned the DVR off I got the same behaviour. After some grinding the unit turned off, EPG disappeared from the display. I went to turn the unit back on (hoping like others that something got downloaded) and the time switched to 3:04am on the display (GMT). Nothing new in the TV guide section. When I turned the unit back off it stayed on GMT and a silent EPG reappeared on the display. (Note also, the time setting - auto and manual - were grayed out). It seems like we have a clock problem. The unit says local time but the TVGOS program thinks it is GMT perhaps, if the info is being broadcast it is being missed because of the offset in time.????

p.s. Ya Team Canada!!!!
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post #193 of 859 Old 01-05-2006, 07:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wabjxo View Post

What is "standby"?

When I "turn my unit off," it almost always takes up to 20 sec. to show Powering Off, then it goes off...which is what it needs to be in "EPG mode."

I also found that things didn't work as well after we forced our unit off several times by pressing the off button twice, before we understood the normal off cycle.

If anyone does or even CAN leave the DVR in a "standby" condition, it can't receive EPG data.

Sorry. What I mean by standby is powering off. I call it standby because the drive is still going and the DVR is available for program info download.

In both jicon's and my circumstance, pushing the power off immediately puts it back to silent EPG mode. The only time I have seen the delay lately is when I have left it off over night (or for over 30hrs). It then seems to come back with GMT instead of local time.

What we are experiencing in Victoria seems very different than what others are dealing with. It seems a local cable company problem.
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post #194 of 859 Old 01-05-2006, 07:42 PM
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Originally Posted by wabjxo View Post

I still think one of the sled dogs ran over your cable!

If you decide to do a hard reset, try setting the clock manually...if you haven't tried that yet. Your PBS station states that they send time data and it may be somehow interfering with your EPG. My PBS station that's working so well does NOT send time data...maybe there's a connection, but only one way to find out.

Otherwise, it's Shaw or someone else messing with Mother EPG...or those darn dogs.

I've done it both ways. When I set the time manually AND auto after independent hard resets it goes to GMT.

This basically makes the unit unusable!!! This WAS NOT happening in October-December. Who do I complain to about this!!!
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post #195 of 859 Old 01-05-2006, 07:54 PM
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On my unit, the "power" button clearly says "STANDBY\\ON" written beside it. Check again. There is no "ON/OFF" button.

Tomorrow will provide some more answers, but I really don't think this is a Shaw issue. I've had friends who work at Shaw indicating that the issue is nothing to do with the cable company supplying the broadcaster's signal.

KCTS is the only PBS station, other than a Detroit station that we receive. That specific station does not provide a Gemstar signal that TVGOS uses. Since I don't receive a host channel, or any VBI data, obviously I'm not tuned in to a channel that provides TVGOS data.

Perhaps Shaw Vancouver, or ComCast in Seattle sees no issues because there are other stations that are delivering the data... meanwhile Victoria has none?

Sleddogs are out of the question. Snow doesn't live here. Cable soaked in a puddle however... that is a different story.
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post #196 of 859 Old 01-05-2006, 08:02 PM
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Originally Posted by jicon View Post

On my unit, the "power" button clearly says "STANDBY\\ON" written beside it. Check again. There is no "ON/OFF" button.

Tomorrow will provide some more answers, but I really don't think this is a Shaw issue. I've had friends who work at Shaw indicating that the issue is nothing to do with the cable company supplying the broadcaster's signal.

KCTS is the only PBS station, other than a Detroit station that we receive. That specific station does not provide a Gemstar signal that TVGOS uses. Since I don't receive a host channel, or any VBI data, obviously I'm not tuned in to a channel that provides TVGOS data.

Perhaps Shaw Vancouver, or ComCast in Seattle sees no issues because there are other stations that are delivering the data... meanwhile Victoria has none?

Sleddogs are out of the question. Snow doesn't live here. Cable soaked in a puddle however... that is a different story.

So who provided my TVGOS data in Oct-Dec when all was working correctly? Can your friends at Shaw at least tell us what channel(s) provided this data back then. Then we can begin to determine why it disappeared (either Shaw or host broadcast issue). Shaw has not changed its channel lineup lately has it???

I've once again performed a hard reset of my DVR - I've got to get ER tonight - it's new!
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post #197 of 859 Old 01-05-2006, 08:23 PM
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I'm working on trying to find that out. My contacts at Shaw do not know. From what they've been told, the EPG stuff is out of the company's control.

I notice that channel 30 is no longer SPIKE, but the FOOD network now... I'm unsure when that changed though.
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post #198 of 859 Old 01-05-2006, 09:34 PM
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Originally Posted by jicon View Post

I notice that channel 30 is no longer SPIKE, but the FOOD network now... I'm unsure when that changed though.

Here's a lineup that dates back to Nov 17 with Food on 30 and Spike on 43

http://www.mcquarrieweb.ca/canada/shaw.asp?Location=VIC

Probably not the problem
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post #199 of 859 Old 01-06-2006, 12:16 AM
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I bought a Pioneer 633 in September 05, plugged it in and set it up. The clock set automatically and the days listings were there the next day. The remainder of the guide filled in within a week. The guide worked flawlessly until sometime during the week before Christmas when all of the listings disappeared and the clock went awry. Since then I've tried fiddle-dicking with every 'solution' found in the forums to no avail. I give up!

I no longer believe that the issue is with the machine; something changed with Shaw Cable, the broadcasters or Gemstar.

Back to buying the Friday Times Communist TV Guide.

Aside from this issue, the Pioneer works very well and I like it a lot......

R. Morgan
Victoria BC Canada
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post #200 of 859 Old 01-06-2006, 05:47 AM
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Originally Posted by jicon View Post


Check the debug screens, no host channel listed. VBI data screens say all 0s or NA

Do you have a VBI channel listed? If not that is bad news. If the recorder cannot receive VBI data, it will not receive TVGOS EPG data. Doubtful it is Gemstar's fault.

RG
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post #201 of 859 Old 01-06-2006, 05:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wabjxo View Post

What is "standby"?

When I "turn my unit off," it almost always takes up to 20 sec. to show Powering Off, then it goes off...which is what it needs to be in "EPG mode."

I also found that things didn't work as well after we forced our unit off several times by pressing the off button twice, before we understood the normal off cycle.

If anyone does or even CAN leave the DVR in a "standby" condition, it can't receive EPG data.

"Standby" is the actual power state of the recorder when you shut it off. It is in standby because it can still receive input from the remote control and other input such as time sync info and EPG data.

The only way to completely power off a recorder (or many other electronic devices) is to unplug it.

RG
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post #202 of 859 Old 01-06-2006, 06:02 AM
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Originally Posted by BCMarinaDotCom View Post

Back to buying the Friday Times Communist TV Guide.

Do you have Communist TV in Victoria?

RG
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post #203 of 859 Old 01-06-2006, 07:06 AM
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I have a VBI channel listing (The last channel I had on the TV), BUT, I don't have a HOST channel. Regardless, I'm not receiving any VBI data.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rgazzara View Post

Do you have Communist TV in Victoria?

Yeah, Mr. Stallin ermmm Asper runs the CanWest Global Media Empire... Television, Radio, Print... something out of a bad Bond film.

So Pioneer Canada said that there was likely a problem with Shaw. Not that he asked me where I was calling from... He also thought contacting Gemstar was difficult, and\\or worthless cuz, "I never get thru when I call".

And, with only one reported issue, he didn't believe that there was indeed a city-wide problem. Besides, he'd hear from Vancouver, Penticton, all over BC if there was an issue. "This is probably not Gemstar, but a Shaw issue"

So, we have Shaw deflecting blame, blaming the broadcasters, and Pioneer Canada saying they think the problem is Shaw, and won't bother checking with Gemstar as to whether there are broadcast issues here in Victoria.

Anyone selling a green card? Can someone vote me off this island?
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post #204 of 859 Old 01-06-2006, 07:12 AM
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Originally Posted by sderby View Post

For what it's worth, it should take exactly 6 days to get a full 8 days of listings. Each program listing download retrieves today's listings, tomorrow's listings and the listings for one week from today. Is it taking longer than 6 days to get a full week's worth of listings?

It hasn't been a full 6 days yet. I believe today is the 6th day but it still hasn't filled in the entire schedule. It always only shows 2 days. The current day and the following day. Yesterday I could see Thursday and Friday schedules. Today I can see Friday and Saturday. That's been the pattern all week.
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post #205 of 859 Old 01-06-2006, 07:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jicon View Post

I have a VBI channel listing (The last channel I had on the TV), BUT, I don't have a HOST channel. Regardless, I'm not receiving any VBI data.



Yeah, Mr. Stallin ermmm Asper runs the CanWest Global Media Empire... Television, Radio, Print... something out of a bad Bond film.

So Pioneer Canada said that there was likely a problem with Shaw. Not that he asked me where I was calling from... He also thought contacting Gemstar was difficult, and\\or worthless cuz, "I never get thru when I call".

And, with only one reported issue, he didn't believe that there was indeed a city-wide problem. Besides, he'd hear from Vancouver, Penticton, all over BC if there was an issue. "This is probably not Gemstar, but a Shaw issue"

So, we have Shaw deflecting blame, blaming the broadcasters, and Pioneer Canada saying they think the problem is Shaw, and won't bother checking with Gemstar as to whether there are broadcast issues here in Victoria.

Anyone selling a green card? Can someone vote me off this island?

For the heck of it, why don't you try to get the EPG data OTA? Just hook up a set of rabbit ears and reset the recorder to no cable, no cable box. That way you can be assured that the EPG data, in some form or another, is at least being transmitted in your area.

Good luck.

RG
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post #206 of 859 Old 01-06-2006, 07:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DayTrader View Post

Yes I am receiving updates but its taking a long time for all 8 days to come in. Much longer then when I initially setup the unit. Since channel 12 has a much stronger signal (better picture) and also provides the auto clock adjust feed then I'd like to try to set it as the host channel to see if the TVGOS listings download faster.

As I've mentioned elsewhere, Gemstar does not transmit all 8 days at once. Each day, they transmit listings for "today", "tomorrow" and "8 days from now". So the "problem" you're having isn't a problem at all, it's the way the guide system operates. The guide will not be fully populated with 8 days of data until it's been running for about a week.
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post #207 of 859 Old 01-06-2006, 08:40 AM
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Originally Posted by DayTrader View Post

It hasn't been a full 6 days yet. I believe today is the 6th day but it still hasn't filled in the entire schedule. It always only shows 2 days. The current day and the following day. Yesterday I could see Thursday and Friday schedules. Today I can see Friday and Saturday. That's been the pattern all week.

If you scroll forward to next Friday, are there any listings for that day? If not, that suggests the downloads are beginning each day, but are getting interrupted at some point.
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post #208 of 859 Old 01-06-2006, 09:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BCMarinaDotCom View Post

I bought a Pioneer 633 in September 05, plugged it in and set it up. The clock set automatically and the days listings were there the next day. The remainder of the guide filled in within a week. The guide worked flawlessly until sometime during the week before Christmas when all of the listings disappeared and the clock went awry. Since then I've tried fiddle-dicking with every 'solution' found in the forums to no avail. I give up!

I no longer believe that the issue is with the machine; something changed with Shaw Cable, the broadcasters or Gemstar.

Back to buying the Friday Times Communist TV Guide.

Aside from this issue, the Pioneer works very well and I like it a lot......

R. Morgan
Victoria BC Canada

Exactly my experience!

What we need is to know what "Host channel" brought us listings all the way up to the week before Christmas. Then we can begin to contact them and Shaw about this.

From my last manual reset (with the clock set manually) my time is still local (although the time in the debug screen is GMT - but the offset from GMT in seconds on these screens is correct for my local time). If my time stays OK then I can at least use the DVR with manual scheduled recording. If it keeps resetting my clock back to GMT then I can't use the unit!
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post #209 of 859 Old 01-06-2006, 09:42 AM
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Today, I turned the unit to Standby (time was fine at this point), waiting... POWERED OFF, and the time once again switched to GMT. Now I have to reset the unit to set the time again.

If Vancouver/Seattle don't have an issue, I think we can assume it is a local station that should be broadcasting the signal, and/or Shaw has indeed done something. Perhaps some emails should start flying to A Channel, Global Vancouver Island, etc...
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post #210 of 859 Old 01-06-2006, 10:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wabjxo View Post

I hope someone up there has been able to check their channel listings and verify if KCTS is the ONLY PBS station that your DVR has found. If not, look way down the list in the OFF section.

This was important to my EPG...I started with the PBS station my Adelphia delivered in my subscriber package and had problems (days 1,2,8). I switched to another PBS station and got some better success (days 1-5,8) BUT I soon got the dreaded "Setup Change" message and all was gone (happened two or three times with that station after hard resets). I switched a third time and got all 8 days very quickly and it held up well.

Turns out my original PBS station had an antenna fire and was operating at half-power. The 2nd station has ~300kw power (maybe why it eventually lost the EPG?), the 3rd ~1200kw. I'm now back to my full-power original station (~1400kw) and working perfectly.


We also have WTVS (PBS - Detroit) see this link for Victoria's lineup:

http://www.mcquarrieweb.ca/canada/shaw.asp?Location=VIC

It doesn't appear that we have much else. Besides, we have to receive a channel lineup before we can perform and movement of channels - we DO NOT have this.

What's all this talk of output power? Are you receiving TVGOS data OTA?

What about your post from yesterday with the link:

http://www.kcts.org/inside/techreport/faq/index.asp

that stated "Public Television stations do not transmit Guide+ data. Commercial stations on the major networks ABC, CBS, NBC, UPN and FOX contract with Gem Star for carriage of the Guide+ service."

Do they, or don't they?
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