Panasonic ES20 - First Impressions (blog style) - Page 13 - AVS Forum
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post #361 of 549 Old 02-20-2006, 09:04 AM
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Even worse! I figured as a workaround, I'd back the tape up to where the recorder froze, and continue on the same DVD. 90 seconds into this attempt, the #%&#er froze again. I'm using XP instead of SP, I wonder if that's the issue--I was able to add a third title and finish the tape in SP mode.

Edit: the third title didn't show up when I went to play the disc elsewhere. Bleh.
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post #362 of 549 Old 02-20-2006, 11:56 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spblat View Post

Phooey!

After tearing through 10 hours of camcorder content on the analog input without a hitch, I have burned three coasters trying to record material off the firewire port.

Each time, 52 minutes in, the picture from the ES20 freezes while the camcorder plays on. If I press "stop" on the ES20 I see "writing information on the disc" which never completes; I have to pull the plug to regain control. This has happened three times in a row: twice with original firmware, and once with newer firmware dated Dec 2005. I've sent in a plea to Panasonic support and will follow up here. If unresolved, this thing is going back to the store.

This is all on the same source DV tape, using the same Verbatim 8x DVD-R media I've used to capture 6 discs of analog content. I'll guess I'll try a different source tape while I wait for Panny to respond.

You can reset the ES20 without unplugging it, by pressing the power button on the ES20 (not the remote) for 10+ seconds. It is mentioned in the back of the user manual in the troubleshooting section.

I have no experience with the DV input so I don't know.

Did you try using other DVD types or brands? For example, if the problem happens with the Panasonic DVD-RAM (eg the one included with the ES20) that would almost certainly rule out any DVD media issues. It may be a good idea to try with rewriteables first, so you don't waste the write-once DVDs.

Boldly trying a new DVR: http://moto3416review.blogspot.com/
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post #363 of 549 Old 02-20-2006, 12:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ncaahoops View Post

You can reset the ES20 without unplugging it, by pressing the power button on the ES20 (not the remote) for 10+ seconds. It is mentioned in the back of the user manual in the troubleshooting section.

Handy. Thanks!

I have no experience with the DV input so I don't know.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ncaahoops View Post

Did you try using other DVD types or brands?

I've got 10 DVDs full of SP camcorder content--not one issue with this media (Verbatim -R 8x). I've recorded a couple more hours using DV at the SP level, so I believe I've got a problem with XP.

So now that you mention it, maybe there is indeed a problem with media at the XP speed--I am asking it to write to disc twice as fast after all.

Last night I tried to reproduce the problem with a DVD-RW, but I was unable to get the machine to recognize/format the disc.

I guess I'll live with SP until this batch of blanks is gone, but it's still bumming me out.
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post #364 of 549 Old 02-20-2006, 02:24 PM
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I have a DMR ES-20 and have had problems getting good volume out of my recordings off my Moto 6412 DVR. I had the DVR connected to the ES-20 via red/white cables and the resulting DVD could barely be heard with my Onkyo receiver turned all the way up. I tried using the optical connection and got slightly more volume out of the DVD but certainly not loud enough.

Is there something wrong with my ES-20 or am I doing something wrong? Should I go to Circuit City and swap out the ES-20?

By the way, I am recording HD content onto a -R disc. (It looks great! I just need sound!)

Thanks in advance.
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post #365 of 549 Old 02-20-2006, 03:28 PM
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My ES-20 is going back in the box, and back to the store as soon as I have time to get rid of it.

I've had it for a week, and things were going well at first. I've been recording the Olympics on the DVR, then snaging highlights on the DVD.

Last night, I set the thing to record the entire opening ceremonies and went to bed. This morning I found the ES-20 frozen solid, and once I rebooted it wouldn't recognize the disc that had been burned.

I figured I'd flash the firmware and see how that works. The update went smoothly, and I went back grabbing Olympic highlights.

That's when it happened again. I had something like 25-26 clips on the DVD, and was adding another when the ES-20 once again locked up. Again, I had to re-boot, and again I had a disc that the player doesn't recognize. The display simply says "Err"

I'm really, really upset about this. In the grand scheme of things it is not a big deal, but I am a big Olympic Games freak, and I'm sorry to have lost all of that work.

Unless someone can point me to a magic bullet that will salvage my highlight DVD, this thing is going back, and it will be the last Panasonic product I buy.

After reading this thread, and my own experiences, I'm convicned that the ES-20 is A PIECE OF WORTHLESS JUNK.
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post #366 of 549 Old 02-20-2006, 03:38 PM
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Fed, up. I'm taking it back to the store.

Different source tape, Sony camcorder plugged into DV/firewire input. Verbatim 8X DVD-R, MCC formula -- a known good brand, and I have 12 good burns in a row from the analog input on this media.

53 minutes into the SP recording I start to hear brief audio dropouts, and after a couple of minutes of that the video starts to stutter a bit. Then the video freezes again, same symptom as before.

Now I'm pissed and just want to finish this project. So I reformatted the DVD-RAM that came in the box with the player, and tried to record the material to that. Same result!

Conclusion: this unit can't 60 minute recording sessions over firewire, with or without the latest firmware. Bye bye ES20. :-(
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post #367 of 549 Old 02-21-2006, 10:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jake N View Post

I have a DMR ES-20 and have had problems getting good volume out of my recordings off my Moto 6412 DVR. I had the DVR connected to the ES-20 via red/white cables and the resulting DVD could barely be heard with my Onkyo receiver turned all the way up. I tried using the optical connection and got slightly more volume out of the DVD but certainly not loud enough.

Is there something wrong with my ES-20 or am I doing something wrong? Should I go to Circuit City and swap out the ES-20?

By the way, I am recording HD content onto a -R disc. (It looks great! I just need sound!)

Thanks in advance.

Jake,

Adjust the audio output on your cable box to "other" (rather than HDMI or Dolby Digital) then the audio range to "narrow" (instead of wide or normal). This will increase the analog input going into your DVD recorder either directly or though a recording saved on DVR. When set to HDMI or Dolby (both digital) the volume is lower on non-digital sources like a DVD recorder.

When you don't want to record a program onto DVD re-adjust your settings back to the above for 5.1 sound from a live broadcast or DVR (just remember it will be lower should you decide you want to keep in on DVD).

- Joe
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post #368 of 549 Old 02-21-2006, 10:38 AM
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Slightly OT, but I get better results moving stuff from the 6412 to the ES20 using a 2 step process: transfer to laptop via firewire, then from laptop to recorder via s-vid.

Switching gears, I'm also on the verge of returning the ES20 to the store. Anyone know if the EH50 is in stock anywhere?

E
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post #369 of 549 Old 02-21-2006, 12:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joseph Dubin View Post

Jake,

Adjust the audio output on your cable box to "other" (rather than HDMI or Dolby Digital) then the audio range to "narrow" (instead of wide or normal). This will increase the analog input going into your DVD recorder either directly or though a recording saved on DVR. When set to HDMI or Dolby (both digital) the volume is lower on non-digital sources like a DVD recorder.

When you don't want to record a program onto DVD re-adjust your settings back to the above for 5.1 sound from a live broadcast or DVR (just remember it will be lower should you decide you want to keep in on DVD).

- Joe

Thanks so much, Joe, I really do appreciate it!

I'll give it a whirl when I get home from work.
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post #370 of 549 Old 02-21-2006, 01:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jake N View Post

Thanks so much, Joe, I really do appreciate it!

I'll give it a whirl when I get home from work.

Jake,

It will work because I've had to make the same adjustment.

It is especially helpful for listening or recording from any music stations your provider offers - the sound will be rich and fuller set this way.

Let me know how it works out,

Joe
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post #371 of 549 Old 02-21-2006, 06:01 PM
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I received the firmware update Panasonic sent me which, hopefully, was to correct the timer FR mode problem previous discussed & experienced by some. Well it did not make any difference. It was version U3-152, dated Jan 23, 2006. This appears to be the same one mentioned on the Canadian Panny web site. The disc is labeled "Panasonic of North America", which should be for both USA and Canada. Anyway, it did not make any difference.

Those who have other problems may want to try this latest update & download it from Canada.

When I spoke with Panny, they gave me the address of a local Digital Service Center & said I could send my unit in (but cannot drop it off). I politely commented what good will that do since they will not have any newer firmware than the version being sent to me. Since their response time for mailing the disc to me was quick, perhaps I'll mail them a letter & hope for a quick reply.

Mike
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post #372 of 549 Old 02-21-2006, 08:26 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike99 View Post

I received the firmware update Panasonic sent me which, hopefully, was to correct the timer FR mode problem previous discussed & experienced by some. Well it did not make any difference. It was version U3-152, dated Jan 23, 2006. This appears to be the same one mentioned on the Canadian Panny web site. The disc is labeled "Panasonic of North America", which should be for both USA and Canada. Anyway, it did not make any difference.

Those who have other problems may want to try this latest update & download it from Canada.

When I spoke with Panny, they gave me the address of a local Digital Service Center & said I could send my unit in (but cannot drop it off). I politely commented what good will that do since they will not have any newer firmware than the version being sent to me. Since their response time for mailing the disc to me was quick, perhaps I'll mail them a letter & hope for a quick reply.

Mike

Interesting. Thanks for letting us know! It looks like the Panasonic engineers don't know how to do basic calculations :-(

Ever since we confirmed the day-changing bug of a Timer/FR, all the same-day Timer/FRs I have done have been successful. I do manual FR if they cross into the next day.

Boldly trying a new DVR: http://moto3416review.blogspot.com/
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post #373 of 549 Old 02-21-2006, 11:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ncaahoops View Post

Interesting. Thanks for letting us know! It looks like the Panasonic engineers don't know how to do basic calculations :-(

Ever since we confirmed the day-changing bug of a Timer/FR, all the same-day Timer/FRs I have done have been successful. I do manual FR if they cross into the next day.

Doing a manual FR is a solution since we do know what causes the problem. I do mostly time-shifting so this won't be a big inconvenience for me. But you never know when I might need to use FR. After all the bug already bit me once.

I did type a letter to Panasonic. They were responsive & quick to mail me the update disc, so I'm hoping for a quick reply. I'm not expecting any miracles. But who knows, maybe it will get things going toward another firmware update. I did mention others had the same problem & therefore sending in my unit for repair was not going to solve the problem. So we'll see.

Mike
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post #374 of 549 Old 02-22-2006, 06:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joseph Dubin View Post

Jake,

It will work because I've had to make the same adjustment.

It is especially helpful for listening or recording from any music stations your provider offers - the sound will be rich and fuller set this way.

Let me know how it works out,

Joe

It worked like a charm! Thanks!
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post #375 of 549 Old 02-22-2006, 07:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jake N View Post

It worked like a charm! Thanks!

Hi Jake,

Glad to be of help. Sometimes I still forget to change the audio output prior to recording something onto DVR and get stuck with lower volume as well. You'll really notice a difference in sound on the music channels.

- Joe
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post #376 of 549 Old 02-22-2006, 11:19 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike99 View Post

Doing a manual FR is a solution since we do know what causes the problem. I do mostly time-shifting so this won't be a big inconvenience for me. But you never know when I might need to use FR. After all the bug already bit me once.

I did type a letter to Panasonic. They were responsive & quick to mail me the update disc, so I'm hoping for a quick reply. I'm not expecting any miracles. But who knows, maybe it will get things going toward another firmware update. I did mention others had the same problem & therefore sending in my unit for repair was not going to solve the problem. So we'll see.

Mike

Hopefully they will get their act together and fix it. I can't believe they didn't test something like this when they were producing the ES20.

I wonder if the ES10 or the ES30/40 have this bug.

Boldly trying a new DVR: http://moto3416review.blogspot.com/
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post #377 of 549 Old 02-22-2006, 11:55 AM - Thread Starter
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I recorded a game from ESPN-Classic on my Comcast Moto 6412 DVR.

Then I recorded that to the Panasonic ES20 with Line-In NR = off.

Then as a test, I recorded a small part with Line-In NR = On.

ESPN Classic has a ticker at the bottom of the screen. Sometimes it is stand-still, sometimes it moves right-to-left across the screen (it is a ticker after all). When it moves, and with LineNR=ON, the letters are smoothed out so that you can't easily read them. With LineNR=OFF, the letters are readable.

Part of the issue is compression by Comcast/DVR as ESPN Classic comes off the wall with some minor compression artifacts to begin with.

(Line-IN NR = Noise Reduction applied to the Line 1 and Line 2 Inputs).

Boldly trying a new DVR: http://moto3416review.blogspot.com/
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post #378 of 549 Old 02-22-2006, 11:10 PM
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I'll have to play with Noise Reduction on the RF input. The tuner on the ES20 is not as clean as the tuner on S-VHS recorder, which I use for TV viewing. And the S-VHS tuner is also better than my TV tuner.

However recorded material on the ES20 ends up better looking than what was just viewed thru its tuner section. So I'm presuming Noise Reduction when recording is making the difference.

I'll try to play with NR in next day or two & see what happens.

Mike
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post #379 of 549 Old 02-23-2006, 12:13 AM
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I am thinking of buying a ES20. I plan to use this only for archiving VHS tapes and pulling content from my Dishnetwork DVR 522.

The 522 has a S-Video out and a Digital Audio out. These are hooked into a Yamaha Audio-Video receiver HTR-5850.

The DVR 522 will record Dolby 5.1 audio to the hard drive, from movies, and it plays back fine. My question is, will I be able to burn DVDs, on the ES20, that are Dolby 5.1 for playback? If so, how? If not, what DVD Recorder will do this? I do not have HDTV.

Thanks,
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post #380 of 549 Old 02-23-2006, 12:16 AM
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That's a negative. No DVD Recorders can take digital audio input, or even more than stereo analog audio input.
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post #381 of 549 Old 02-23-2006, 05:34 PM
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I have an ES30V and am trying to get things working with my Harmony 659 remote. Everything works well (although I had to 'teach' the remote most of the commands). The only thing I cannot get to work properly is the On and Off button. When I use the Harmony Remote to turn the ES30V on, the front panel of the ES30V says REMOTE and there is nothing on the screen. I press the DIRECT NAVAGATION key and it says HELLO and reads the disk. When I press the Harmony remote to turn the ES30V off it says REMOTE again and then goes to NAVI. I have to turn the ES30V off directly or wait for it to time out and shut itself off.

Does any one have any advice on how I can get the Harmony remote to truly turn off the ES30V?
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post #382 of 549 Old 02-23-2006, 06:11 PM
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Usually when that sign comes up in the display it means the REMOTE is not sending out the right Panasonic code to the recorder.

Remember the Panny Recorder has 3 different codes that it can be set on.

See your Owners Manual For:
"When Other Panasonic Products Respond To This Remote Control"
And it will tell you how to change the Remote Codes to 1, 2 or 3 & as you change them see if your Harmony will work on one of the codes.

I know the Number 1 code (The Factory Setting) on my Panny E55 is the standard Panasonic Code for DVD Products & I had to change the code on the recorder because it's remote was also working my Panny DVD player.

So fool with the Recorder Codes & maybe you'll get lucky & your Harmony will work on one of them.
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post #383 of 549 Old 02-24-2006, 05:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill1313 View Post

Usually when that sign comes up in the display it means the REMOTE is not sending out the right Panasonic code to the recorder.

Remember the Panny Recorder has 3 different codes that it can be set on.

See your Owners Manual For:
"When Other Panasonic Products Respond To This Remote Control"
And it will tell you how to change the Remote Codes to 1, 2 or 3 & as you change them see if your Harmony will work on one of the codes.

I know the Number 1 code (The Factory Setting) on my Panny E55 is the standard Panasonic Code for DVD Products & I had to change the code on the recorder because it's remote was also working my Panny DVD player.

So fool with the Recorder Codes & maybe you'll get lucky & your Harmony will work on one of them.

I have 2 Panasonic recorders in the same room, and I set 1 to remote #1 and the other to remote #2. The remotes work fine for each recorder, but when I use remote #1, recorder #2 shows "check remote 1" on the display, and vice versa. Is this normal behavior?

RG
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post #384 of 549 Old 02-24-2006, 06:01 AM
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Thanks for your answer and suggestions. Thing is I taught the Harmony remote the Panasonic remote's signal for On/Off. I did not use the codes. Maybe I have to teach it again. Will try and report back.
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post #385 of 549 Old 02-24-2006, 09:07 AM
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rgazzara, That's "Normal" & it's Panasonic's way of the Recorder telling you that the Recorder's Code doesn't match the Remote's Code. But it would have been nice if they had given us the option of turning "off" The Remote Check Display.

marchristensen, Not sure what you mean the Panasonic's ON/OFF code?

But try "Learning" the ON/OFF Code with the "Recorder" & "Panasonic Remote" both set for Code 1 then Code 2 then Code 3 because maybe they are different & the Harmony will "Learn" one of the Panny Codes?
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post #386 of 549 Old 02-24-2006, 09:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill1313 View Post

rgazzara, That's "Normal" & it's Panasonic's way of the Recorder telling you that the Recorder's Code doesn't match the Remote's Code. But it would have been nice if they had given us the option of turning "off" The Remote Check Display.

Thanks Bill, that eases my mind.

RG
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post #387 of 549 Old 02-24-2006, 11:35 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rgazzara View Post

I have 2 Panasonic recorders in the same room, and I set 1 to remote #1 and the other to remote #2. The remotes work fine for each recorder, but when I use remote #1, recorder #2 shows "check remote 1" on the display, and vice versa. Is this normal behavior?

I have a Panasonic DVD recorder and DVD player in the same room. I changed the remote code on the recorder, but everytime I press a button on the DVD player remote, the DVD recorder's front panel LCD/LED display shows "RC3" as a reminder that I am using a different remote control code.

I find this rather annoying, so what I have done is I found an angle that (the dvd player's remote control commands) hit the dvd player but not the dvd recorder, so I don't get the annoying message on the recorder :-)

As Bill1313 said above, it would have been nice if you could turn off the warning, or if they would show it a couple of times per session and then auto turned it off.

Boldly trying a new DVR: http://moto3416review.blogspot.com/
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post #388 of 549 Old 02-24-2006, 02:14 PM
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marchristensen, Not sure what you mean the Panasonic's ON/OFF code?

Harmony 659 is supposed to be able to auto program the remote, by my just telling it (via Harmony iweb site) that my DVD Recorder is a ES30V. That did not work, and I had to line the remote from the ES30V up with the Harmony 659 remote and send each buttons's signal to the Harmony remote. All buttons work except the on/off button. I will try and do that one again. I wasn't sure what REMOTE means on my remote. I have no way that I am aware of for putting a code into the Harmony Remote for the ES30V On/Off button.
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post #389 of 549 Old 02-25-2006, 05:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike99 View Post

I'll have to play with Noise Reduction on the RF input. The tuner on the ES20 is not as clean as the tuner on S-VHS recorder, which I use for TV viewing. And the S-VHS tuner is also better than my TV tuner.

However recorded material on the ES20 ends up better looking than what was just viewed thru its tuner section. So I'm presuming Noise Reduction when recording is making the difference.

I'll try to play with NR in next day or two & see what happens.

Mike

Well there is no Noise Reduction on the RF input that can be turned on/off, only the Line-IN inputs. I do not have anything connected to a Line-In input. I try to use analog RF cable direct from the wall as much as I can. Eventually I will play with the Line-In NR as I do have some tapes & Laser Discs that I want to transfer to DVD-R.

I did toggle the MPEG-DNR on & off, but could not tell any difference. Either on stuff I recorded or commercial DVD.

Mike
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post #390 of 549 Old 02-25-2006, 05:34 PM
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I was at Fry's Electronics the other day & they had the all black version on the ES20. Of course as I'm thinking about it, maybe Panasonic is trying to get these out of their warehouse & into the B&M retail market in order to clear them out to make room for new models.

Mike
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