Panasonic ES20 - First Impressions (blog style) - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 549 Old 12-24-2005, 02:01 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by va9 View Post

Did the firmware update...to the es20.... everything went as per instruction supplied from Panasonic.. Don't notice any changes as far as the menus are concerned. Seems ok....

What firmware version does the machine show now that you have the new firmware upgrade? Mine is 00000103 (without the upgrade), and I bought it about 2-3 months ago.

You can find the firmware version by:
a) Press SETUP on the remote
b) Use the arrow keys on the remote to go to the menu option "Display"
c) Press the DISPLAY button on the remote control
d) Your firmware version appears for a few seconds on the screen!

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post #92 of 549 Old 12-24-2005, 03:41 PM
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I have some old music video VHS tapes that I want to transfer to dvd, but when I try, it won't record because they are copyright protected. They are not available on dvd (otherwise I'd just buy them)

I've seen some gadgets out there to remove the Macrovision protection, but do those work on the ES20?

Any suggestions?
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post #93 of 549 Old 12-24-2005, 04:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greenpaw View Post

I have some old music video VHS tapes that I want to transfer to dvd, but when I try, it won't record because they are copyright protected. They are not available on dvd (otherwise I'd just buy them)

I've seen some gadgets out there to remove the Macrovision protection, but do those work on the ES20?

Any suggestions?

Check out this gadget and they said you have a 15 day free trial. If you are copying vcr tapes it has alway work for me. It doesn't alway work with dvd to dvd copy.
I have had one for about ten years(before there was dvd) and has never failed me yet.
http://www.checkhere22.com/stabilizer.html

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post #94 of 549 Old 12-24-2005, 07:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ncaahoops View Post

What firmware version does the machine show now that you have the new firmware upgrade? Mine is 00000103 (without the upgrade), and I bought it about 2-3 months ago.

You can find the firmware version by:
a) Press SETUP on the remote
b) Use the arrow keys on the remote to go to the menu option "Display"
c) Press the DISPLAY button on the remote control
d) Your firmware version appears for a few seconds on the screen!

The firmware number i got was 00000103. I guess I had an old firmware when I bought it last month.
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post #95 of 549 Old 12-25-2005, 07:38 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by va9 View Post

The firmware number i got was 00000103. I guess I had an old firmware when I bought it last month.

Thanks! It is possible that Panasonic is not changing the firmware version with the updates. I think some people in another thread for the EH50 are saying that the version does not change after they do the firmware update. Perhaps it's a minor version update that doesn't show with the Display button.

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post #96 of 549 Old 12-25-2005, 09:04 PM
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My Sony KLVS32a10 has a component in and an HDMI connection. Stupid question that I think the answer is no but here goes:

Can the cable box be connected into the back of the DVD recorder via S-cable and then out via component to the tv and still get Hi-Def on the tv?

By using this connection, can I watch tv and dvd (by switching back and forth) both through the component video connection to the tv? Do I need to control channel changing through the DVD recorder? Thanks.
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post #97 of 549 Old 12-25-2005, 09:27 PM
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All your dvd recorder will output is 480P(progressive scan) via it's component output. If you want to watch HD you will have to connect cable box component out or hdmi straight to tv Hd input.

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post #98 of 549 Old 12-26-2005, 05:20 AM
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Will the ES20's S-Video connection output Progressive Scan? So my thought was to connect DVD to the S-Video on tv for and then cable box to component input.

The SONY klvs32a10 only has one component input on the back of the tv. It also has one HDMI on the side of the tv (not on the back, which is strange b/c I can't connect to HDMI without cables dangling outside of the tv and looped around the mount.
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post #99 of 549 Old 12-26-2005, 07:29 AM
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No the S-video puts out 480I. Component puts out 480P(progessive scan)
I don't know whether your cable box puts out HD or not. If it is a digital box I am sure it does. In simple terms HD is 720 or 1080 lines of information sent to TV. and analog tv is 480 lines of information sent to tv. Your ES20 component can only send out 480I or 480P. On a 32in. tv the ES20 component output will look great on your tv at 480P(progressive scan) but not quite as good as HD straight from cable box to tv. You just need to check out both and see what you are happy with.
Here is a good article on how HD tv works.
http://www.howstuffworks.com/hdtv.htm

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post #100 of 549 Old 12-26-2005, 09:22 AM
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Anyone had a loss of video signal on the ES-20? I've had one hooked into my system for 3wks. Burned a couple of -R off my Ultimate TV DVR and play a number of rented DVDs. Sat. morning I hooked up my VCR to the unit to copy a tape recorded off a TV news program. Sound came through, but only one frame of frozen video. This was with a S-video hook up. Changed to RF, same thing sound but no video. Hooked up to my DVR again with S-video. Passed through the sound but no video. Tried playing a commercial DVD bypassing all input hookups. Sound but no video. Pulled all of the plugs and put my old JVC DVD player back in to watch a DVD Saturday night. Sunday morning I reconnected the ES-20 to trouble shoot. Everything worked fine!! Hooked in the VCR and recoded my news program with no problems. Hooked the ES-20 back up to the DVR and recorded a program off the HD and played it back. No problem. Can't figure out if I hit the wrong button on the ES-20 remote to loose video or what.
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post #101 of 549 Old 12-26-2005, 09:49 AM
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Don't have a ES20 so can't say for sure but it looks like somehow it got changed from 480I(interlaced)to 480P(progressive scan) or visa versa. This will cause a problem like you are talking about.

BJM
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post #102 of 549 Old 12-26-2005, 01:43 PM
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Well I decided to keep the ES20 & opened the box & hooked it up. I was holding out for a good deal on a unit with a HDD, but nothing has shown up in the past couple weeks. I got the ES20 at BB when on sale for a few bucks off & also got their rebate which I have to send in. This amounts to a 30% discount from retail price. So I figured it's a keeper.

So far it works fine & picture looks good on my old 27" Sony XBR CRT set. 4HR (SP) looks quite good and 6HR (EP) looks a little soft, but I have to try recording some more. I don't know what it will look like when I upgrade to a larger set, but for now I'm satisfied.

I'm amazed at how well the "chase play" works. This is one feature I wanted & I knew the ES20 did this with DVD-RAM. I'm curious, does anyone know how large a memory buffer this unit has in order to accomplish this?

Mike
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post #103 of 549 Old 12-26-2005, 08:17 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike99 View Post

Well I decided to keep the ES20 & opened the box & hooked it up. I was holding out for a good deal on a unit with a HDD, but nothing has shown up in the past couple weeks. I got the ES20 at BB when on sale for a few bucks off & also got their rebate which I have to send in. This amounts to a 30% discount from retail price. So I figured it's a keeper.

So far it works fine & picture looks good on my old 27" Sony XBR CRT set. 4HR (SP) looks quite good and 6HR (EP) looks a little soft, but I have to try recording some more. I don't know what it will look like when I upgrade to a larger set, but for now I'm satisfied.

Yeah, I too find the 6hr EP mode soft and smoothed out, but I use it when the picture doesn't matter - eg when there is a talking head and very few graphics/pictures of interest. Interestingly South Park looks okay at 8hr EP. But that's the only thing I use the 8hr EP mode for For things with motion I have found the 4:30-4:40FR a good trade-off over 6hr EP, and it sometimes has fewer movement artifacts than 4hr LP.



Quote:


I'm amazed at how well the "chase play" works. This is one feature I wanted & I knew the ES20 did this with DVD-RAM. I'm curious, does anyone know how large a memory buffer this unit has in order to accomplish this?
Mike

Yes, compared to the Comcast DVR's "chase play" especially when the Comcast DVR goes in remote control command buffering and gets sluggish, the ES20 with DVD-RAM is like a breath of fresh air. Pressing fast forward actually moves FF instantly instead of hesitating like the Comcast DVR. I don't know if they do it with a memory buffer or directly from the disk or a combination of both - since I think DVD-RAM is like a random-access hard drive.

The only annoying thing with ES20's Chase-Play is that they shut it off when the recording ends, so you have to manually pick it up from the last point if you don't finish on time. I end up adding another 15 minutes of padding to the timer recording, so it doesn't stop on me

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post #104 of 549 Old 12-26-2005, 08:50 PM
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I did a timer recording during the day, figured I'd better make sure this works. When I came home the front panel looked like it was displaying the letters "NV". Could have been something else, but sure looked like NV. I could not find anything in the manual what this indicated. The recording looked fine, so it obviously worked. But what do these letters mean?

Mike
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post #105 of 549 Old 12-27-2005, 05:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike99 View Post

I'm amazed at how well the "chase play" works. This is one feature I wanted & I knew the ES20 did this with DVD-RAM. I'm curious, does anyone know how large a memory buffer this unit has in order to accomplish this?

Mike

As far as I know, chase play works by "reading" from an earlier part of the recording while continually "writing" the program as it is input into the recorder. There is no buffer involved.

RG
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post #106 of 549 Old 12-27-2005, 07:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rgazzara View Post

As far as I know, chase play works by "reading" from an earlier part of the recording while continually "writing" the program as it is input into the recorder. There is no buffer involved.


But how does the laser handle reading & writing at the same time? I would think the laser has to be jumping all over the disc. If it's reading data, then it can't be writing data. Would it have to store some data at some point in time? I don't know, but it sure doesn't seem to skip a beat.

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post #107 of 549 Old 12-27-2005, 08:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike99 View Post

But how does the laser handle reading & writing at the same time? I would think the laser has to be jumping all over the disc. If it's reading data, then it can't be writing data. Would it have to store some data at some point in time? I don't know, but it sure doesn't seem to skip a beat.

Mike

It doesn't read and write at same time but when you are talking about micro and nana seconds your eyes can't see the different.

BJM
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post #108 of 549 Old 12-27-2005, 09:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by martin1 View Post

It doesn't read and write at same time but when you are talking about micro and nana seconds your eyes can't see the different.

Exactly...

RG
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post #109 of 549 Old 12-27-2005, 11:44 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike99 View Post

I did a timer recording during the day, figured I'd better make sure this works. When I came home the front panel looked like it was displaying the letters "NV". Could have been something else, but sure looked like NV. I could not find anything in the manual what this indicated. The recording looked fine, so it obviously worked. But what do these letters mean?

Mike

I don't recall seeing a "NV" on the front panel during/after a Timer recording with non-RAM discs.

But the front panel displays "NV" (or something similar to that) when you press the Direct Navigator button on the remote. But I am not sure how the machine would get to Direct Navigator on its own after a recording, unless you were using a DVD-RAM, you left it in Direct Navigator mode after the Timer started recording, and it stayed like that after the Timer recording finished? I haven't tried this combination so I am only speculating above.

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post #110 of 549 Old 12-27-2005, 12:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kpb View Post


I have very precious VCR tape recordings of my granddaughter going back to 1988.
kpb

Yes, you can use the Yellow video out from your VCR (or S-Video if it has it) and put it in the front (Video 2) of the DVD Recorder. On the recorder, just set the channel to Video 2. Then hit play on VCR and record on the DVD recorder. Very simple once you try it!

I bought the ES20 for the family (ok, sort of for me) for Xmas so only opened it on Sunday. So far so good!

I absolutely love the "chase and play" feature, no more commercials for me! Chase and play is when you can watch what you recorded while it's still recording. So start recording, then hit PLAY, and you watch from the beginning. Very nice feature (but must be used with a DVD-RAM disc).

Also, I hooked up my JVC Dig Camcorder and it worked also, recording. Nice. So far I love the ES20. No more video tape recording ever again!

Better is one day in your courts, better is one day in your house, better is one day in your courts, than thousands elsewhere....
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post #111 of 549 Old 12-27-2005, 12:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ncaahoops View Post

I don't recall seeing a "NV" on the front panel during/after a Timer recording with non-RAM discs.

But the front panel displays "NV" (or something similar to that) when you press the Direct Navigator button on the remote. But I am not sure how the machine would get to Direct Navigator on its own after a recording, unless you were using a DVD-RAM, you left it in Direct Navigator mode after the Timer started recording, and it stayed like that after the Timer recording finished? I haven't tried this combination so I am only speculating above.


I guess I could have left the unit in Direct Navigator mode. I tried a couple other timer recordings and did not get this. But I did a short "live" recording and used up all the disc space and ended up with "NV" again. And I was playing with the Direct Navigator and chase play at the time. So "NV" is probably short for "Navigator". I'll play a bit more & see what happens. I just want to make sure I'm not getting a strange error message.

Thanks for the information,

Mike
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post #112 of 549 Old 12-27-2005, 12:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by martin1 View Post

It doesn't read and write at same time but when you are talking about micro and nana seconds your eyes can't see the different.


No offense meant & I hope none taken, but I can't see the laser moving or focusing to different areas of the disc in nanoseconds. Just think how long it takes when you do a chapter or title search. From what I have seen & read, the laser assembly physically moves across the disc. And this takes time. Not a lot, but I don't think physically possible to go back & forth across the disc in nanoseconds.

I've had my CD player apart and the laser assembly rides on rails. I have not taken a DVD player apart, but I'm guessing basically works the same. Maybe these newer DVD Recorders use a vastly faster mechanical system. I don't know. I just can't visualize mechanical parts moving fast enough to do the job.

Mike
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post #113 of 549 Old 12-27-2005, 01:11 PM
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I actually came across this a few days ago when searching for how Chase Play works. It's from the Pioneer web site and is in reference to their DVD recorders with HDD and Chase Play. This is only a snippet, but refers to a buffer.

"Good news: thanks to the Hard Disk Drive, you don't need to wait until the recording's done. You can watch the program from the beginning as the rest of the program is being recorded. [Again, how big is the buffer, how many minutes?]"

The sentence in brackets ending with a question mark is Pioneer's, not mine. This eludes to the fact that HDD models use a buffer. I'm presuming non-HDD recorders would need the same. But I admit that is a presumption.

Mike

PS - complete Pioneer url:
http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pn...670725,00.html
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post #114 of 549 Old 12-27-2005, 01:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike99 View Post

No offense meant & I hope none taken, but I can't see the laser moving or focusing to different areas of the disc in nanoseconds. Just think how long it takes when you do a chapter or title search. From what I have seen & read, the laser assembly physically moves across the disc. And this takes time. Not a lot, but I don't think physically possible to go back & forth across the disc in nanoseconds.

I've had my CD player apart and the laser assembly rides on rails. I have not taken a DVD player apart, but I'm guessing basically works the same. Maybe these newer DVD Recorders use a vastly faster mechanical system. I don't know. I just can't visualize mechanical parts moving fast enough to do the job.

Mike

OK skeptic, read this blurb from Panasonic, which describes some of the functions of the DMR-ES10/20 DVD recorders:

http://panasonic.co.jp/pavc/global/d..._features.html

In it you will see a description of "chasing play", which is viewing an earlier part of a program currently being recorded, and "simultaneous recording and playback", which is viewing a previously recorded program while recording a different program.

Now, explain to me how simultaneous recording and playback can be accomplished if the laser cannot move fast enough to accomplish these 2 tasks at the same time.

Convinced?

RG
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post #115 of 549 Old 12-27-2005, 05:52 PM
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Okay, does this model produce closed-captioning correctly? See, I have this older DMR-E50, which is fairly good, but it won't playback a disc that's in DVD+R. And I got a DMR-ES40V or whatever it is, a combo DVD/VHS unit, and, for some reason, the video output on the TV tuner and the Line input is just awful. I don't know if there's anything that can be adjusted. Does the ES20 have this problem as well?
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post #116 of 549 Old 12-27-2005, 08:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rgazzara View Post

OK skeptic, read this blurb from Panasonic, which describes some of the functions of the DMR-ES10/20 DVD recorders:

http://panasonic.co.jp/pavc/global/d..._features.html

In it you will see a description of "chasing play", which is viewing an earlier part of a program currently being recorded, and "simultaneous recording and playback", which is viewing a previously recorded program while recording a different program.

Now, explain to me how simultaneous recording and playback can be accomplished if the laser cannot move fast enough to accomplish these 2 tasks at the same time.

Convinced?


There is no question that it is performing a simultaneous recording & playing function. It's obviously doing that. I'm just trying to find out what process or technology is used in order to accomplish this.

Mike
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post #117 of 549 Old 12-28-2005, 09:06 AM
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I have last years Panasonic DVD Recorder Catalog & under "DVD-RAM Makes It Possible" it has a drawing of a disc showing Orange pits & Blue pits on it & above the disc is an Orange item called Recording "ENCODER" pointing at the Orange pits & a Blue item called Playback "DECODER" pointing at the Blue pits.

So from what I get out of the drawing is that it might have 2 lasers in it or maybe the "Encoder" & "Decoder" both can talk to just one laser somehow & it lets you choose between using the "Encoder" or the "Decoder" depending on what your trying to do?

Maybe just like a computer (Which I know nothing about) "Read / Write" ?
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post #118 of 549 Old 12-28-2005, 10:43 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike99 View Post

I actually came across this a few days ago when searching for how Chase Play works. It's from the Pioneer web site and is in reference to their DVD recorders with HDD and Chase Play. This is only a snippet, but refers to a buffer.

"Good news: thanks to the Hard Disk Drive, you don't need to wait until the recording's done. You can watch the program from the beginning as the rest of the program is being recorded. [Again, how big is the buffer, how many minutes?]"

The sentence in brackets ending with a question mark is Pioneer's, not mine. This eludes to the fact that HDD models use a buffer. I'm presuming non-HDD recorders would need the same. But I admit that is a presumption.

Mike

PS - complete Pioneer url:
http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pn...670725,00.html


I think there is a buffer, but I don't know how big it is and how or if it is used during Chase play.

I think there is a buffer because when you press Direct Navigator the first time, there is a delay and disc-reading sound until it assembles the thumbnails and video clip for the highlighted thumbnail. When you exit/enter Direct Navigator again on the same disk in the same session it comes up instantenously - no delay to re-read them or reading-sound, so it must be buffering them somewhere. This happens with all types of DVDs.

As far as the Pioneer url, I think that's mostly marketing-speak, because their DVD-only models can write to DVD-RW(VR) which offers a similar Chase Play feature.

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post #119 of 549 Old 12-28-2005, 01:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by va9 View Post

Did the firmware update...to the es20.... everything went as per instruction supplied from Panasonic.. Don't notice any changes as far as the menus are concerned. Seems ok....

Anyone else install it yet? I'm a new owner of the es20 and love it so far. But my old Memorex 4x -RW (or was it +RW) won't record. I'm hoping that the update will fix that. Anyone know?

What RW media do you all use? I had nearly 50 Sony DVD-R so I'm set for those.

Chase and play rocks! Now if only comcast would send a 1/2 decent signal...

Better is one day in your courts, better is one day in your house, better is one day in your courts, than thousands elsewhere....
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post #120 of 549 Old 12-29-2005, 06:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ncaahoops View Post

I think there is a buffer, but I don't know how big it is and how or if it is used during Chase play.

I think there is a buffer because when you press Direct Navigator the first time, there is a delay and disc-reading sound until it assembles the thumbnails and video clip for the highlighted thumbnail. When you exit/enter Direct Navigator again on the same disk in the same session it comes up instantenously - no delay to re-read them or reading-sound, so it must be buffering them somewhere. This happens with all types of DVDs.

As far as the Pioneer url, I think that's mostly marketing-speak, because their DVD-only models can write to DVD-RW(VR) which offers a similar Chase Play feature.

The Panasonic DVD recorders do not use a buffer for chasing playback or simultaneous record/playback. Both of these fuctions rely on rapid movement of the HDD read/write head or laser assembly.

RG
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