Panasonic ES20 - First Impressions (blog style) - Page 7 - AVS Forum
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post #181 of 549 Old 01-18-2006, 02:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by martin1 View Post

You can as rgazzara said. But can also take a two way splitter and out from the wall connect one to the cable box and the other to the RF input of the ES20. then go thru set up and scan for cable channels. This way you can record straight off the cable tuner in the recorder and also off of in1 or in2 which ever input you have the cable box connected to dirrectly.

Yes that is possible if there are any unscrambled analog channels on the system. If they are all digital or if they are scrambled analog, then this is not possible.

An alternative to using the splitter, is to feed the RF cable to the RF in of the recorder and the RF out to the cable box. The RF out of the recorder is pass-through only and will act like a splitter.

RG
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post #182 of 549 Old 01-18-2006, 10:05 PM
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Hi.

I just bought the ES20 today (my first DVD anything). When I went to buy some DVD-RAM media, I noticed that they said 120 minutes on them, and also that the DVD-RW and DVD-R said the same. I asked the guy at the store about this and he said that the maximum time for a DVD recording is 2 hours unless you get the dual format ones and they are only available in DVD+R/RW (and the ES20 won't record in DVD+RW). I also asked him if this 120 minute maximum could be extended if the recording mode was EP or SP or some other mode and he said the mode only referred to the quality of recording, not to the time.

have not opened the box yet, so thought I should return the unit for one that records in DVD+RW so that I could record for longer than 2 hours. I will use this unit mainly for recording TV shows over and over again.

However, from reading this blog, I saw several references to recording for 4-6 hours.

So my question is t his: Can I record for more than 2 hours on one disk with the ES20? If I am not at home, can I seet it to record a couple of two hour shows, or one show every day for a week on one disk?

Also, the box says 'You can not record continuously for more than half the stated time as the disc must be removed and turned over'. What is that about? What is the stated time? Do I really have to be there to turn a disk over? Is that the DVD-RAM disk or any disk?

Thank you. regs. Miriam
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post #183 of 549 Old 01-18-2006, 10:44 PM
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When you reduce the recording quality, the duration goes up accordingly.

XP = 1 hour
SP = 2 hours
LP = 4 hours
EP = 6 hours
and so forth.

The part about flipping the disc over is only for two-sided discs, they're rare, and obviously hold twice as much content as a (single-layer) single-sided disc.
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post #184 of 549 Old 01-18-2006, 11:26 PM
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Anyone seen the black version of this recorder in Canada? Seems everyone just has the silver one. Ugh....the shelves at Futureshop, Best Buy etc, are always full of silver dvd players and recorders. Yucko.
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post #185 of 549 Old 01-19-2006, 01:10 PM
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Hey ncaahoops -- Thank you so much for this blog!! The info was so great, it helped me decide to buy the ES20!!!

I made my first recording today and it looks great! At this point, I have one editing question ...

After recording onto a RAM disc, how do I change the order of the shows that I recorded?

Thanks again!
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post #186 of 549 Old 01-19-2006, 06:05 PM
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I was attempting to edit out the commercials on last night's episode of Law and Order for my wife, but the ES20 froze up after I had created the chapter markers. Anyone else have this problem? I unplugged it, but it happened again. My thought is that I might have a bad RAM disc.
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post #187 of 549 Old 01-19-2006, 10:15 PM
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I have had about 4 'freeze' situations since purchasing my ES 20 about 3 weeks ago. Mostly occurred when I went to finalize. Had to reboot it to unlock the freeze. I have been transferring VHS tapes to DVD - R discs. I've done about 85 films so far and have only had that 'freeze' problem while finalizing. Since everything else is functioning well, I wrote it off to bad discs. I'm using Sony MiJ - R's. I hope I don't burn the recorder out. I've been running it day and night for 3 weeks.
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post #188 of 549 Old 01-20-2006, 12:21 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by actorBrad View Post

Hey ncaahoops -- Thank you so much for this blog!! The info was so great, it helped me decide to buy the ES20!!!

I made my first recording today and it looks great! At this point, I have one editing question ...

After recording onto a RAM disc, how do I change the order of the shows that I recorded?

Thanks again!

You are welcome :-)

With the ES20 there is no way to change the order of the recordings on the disk. Other Panasonic players (eg ES10) allow you to create Playlists, but the ES20 cannot create Playlists. (But it can play them if they are on the disk).

Boldly trying a new DVR:
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post #189 of 549 Old 01-20-2006, 12:25 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boem25 View Post

Hi.

So my question is t his: Can I record for more than 2 hours on one disk with the ES20? If I am not at home, can I seet it to record a couple of two hour shows, or one show every day for a week on one disk?

Yes, you can record up to 8 hours per single disc, depending on the recording mode you select. SP is 2 hours, LP is 4 hours, EP is either 6 or 8 hours. FR will theoretically fill up the disc for the duration of the recording. Obviously, yhe longer the duration, the lower the quality.


Quote:


Also, the box says 'You can not record continuously for more than half the stated time as the disc must be removed and turned over'. What is that about? What is the stated time? Do I really have to be there to turn a disk over? Is that the DVD-RAM disk or any disk?

This only applies to double-sided disks, which are rare, but there are some DVD-RAM double-sided disks.

Boldly trying a new DVR:
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post #190 of 549 Old 01-20-2006, 12:44 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dix handley View Post

I have had about 4 'freeze' situations since purchasing my ES 20 about 3 weeks ago. Mostly occurred when I went to finalize. Had to reboot it to unlock the freeze. I have been transferring VHS tapes to DVD - R discs. I've done about 85 films so far and have only had that 'freeze' problem while finalizing. Since everything else is functioning well, I wrote it off to bad discs. I'm using Sony MiJ - R's. I hope I don't burn the recorder out. I've been running it day and night for 3 weeks.

I had about 4-5 freezes during operation I think, not sure if it was the Es20 or the media (or both) to blame. Half of the time it came out by pressing the Power button for 10 seconds, a couple of other times I had to unplug it (probably because I didn't know about the 10-second Power button option at the time).

I only recall one time where it refused to finalize a disc (the first Sony -R 8x MIJ I tried to finalize), but I was able to power it off, which probably means it didn't even start finalizing, because once it starts finalizing you can't power it off with the power button. The disc still plays, it just won't finalize no matter what.

I have been using it extensively as well, probalby averaging 8 hours a day. I hope it is designed for heavy duty use - after all that's one of its selling poits with DVD-RAM and TimeSlip/ChasePlay. I do not know if heat becomes an issue during the summer, but it seems to be a non-issue in the fall/winter. There was a post of another user doing a non-stop multi-hour marathon on an Es10 without any problems.

Boldly trying a new DVR:
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post #191 of 549 Old 01-20-2006, 06:59 AM
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Anyone know if you can run coaxial cable TV and an OTA antenna connected at the same time to the ES20? If not, any thoughts on how to accomplish this?
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post #192 of 549 Old 01-20-2006, 09:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by martin1 View Post

You can as rgazzara said. But can also take a two way splitter and out from the wall connect one to the cable box and the other to the RF input of the ES20. then go thru set up and scan for cable channels. This way you can record straight off the cable tuner in the recorder and also off of in1 or in2 which ever input you have the cable box connected to dirrectly.

The only problem with this setup is if you have an expanded cable subscription (channels 101 and up including ppv channels), you won't be able to record from those channel ranges. This recorder only has basic TV tuner so when you follow this setup, you can only record from channels 1 thru 99.
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post #193 of 549 Old 01-20-2006, 09:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dix handley View Post

I have had about 4 'freeze' situations since purchasing my ES 20 about 3 weeks ago. Mostly occurred when I went to finalize. Had to reboot it to unlock the freeze. I have been transferring VHS tapes to DVD - R discs. I've done about 85 films so far and have only had that 'freeze' problem while finalizing. Since everything else is functioning well, I wrote it off to bad discs. I'm using Sony MiJ - R's. I hope I don't burn the recorder out. I've been running it day and night for 3 weeks.

Have you guys checked Panasonic's website? They have a firmware patch for the ES20 which is supposed to fix the freezing problems.
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post #194 of 549 Old 01-20-2006, 09:27 AM
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I have the firmware update sitting in a folder but I haven't attempted to install it yet for fear of screwing up the recorder completely if done incorrectly. But I thought the firmware update was in regard to some sheduling problem or time zone fubar, not any freezing problem. That's one of the reasons I haven't attempted to install it. I do very little timer recording. I tried recording Key Largo off TCM at 6 a.m in FR mode on timer and it started and stopped perfectly but the Adelphia signal was screwed up so I got a worthless disc. In February, TCM is running a month of Oscar winners so I will be running the recorder day and night, using the timer much more.
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post #195 of 549 Old 01-20-2006, 09:52 AM
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Hi to everyone, I too just bought Panasonic ES20, I love the machine, but have problem to transfer video from my Sony camcorder. I posted this yesterday.
" When I do recording , after while you can see how video on Tv screen start to be snowy and jittery and minute latter screen turn blue but sound goes little longer. Is very hard to say when this will start, but I think will start anytime after 10 minutes of recording. I try to record through DV input, switched to S Video, but problem stayed. I try different DVD R's, cables but no luck. Is a recorder bad or just same recorder have problem with signal from camcorders ? I thought first that maybe camera is on fault, but I don't have any problem to record video from this camera to computer"
Any idea ? Could be compatibility problem Panasonic - Sony ?
me
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post #196 of 549 Old 01-20-2006, 09:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thegoldenhand View Post

The only problem with this setup is if you have an expanded cable subscription (channels 101 and up including ppv channels), you won't be able to record from those channel ranges. This recorder only has basic TV tuner so when you follow this setup, you can only record from channels 1 thru 99.

That's why martin1 mentioned that the output of the cable box can be connected to IN1 or IN2. The digital channels can be recorded by using these inputs.

RG
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post #197 of 549 Old 01-20-2006, 12:22 PM
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Hey,

Been reading this thread, didn't see this anywhere, so I'll ask.

Why does this unit have an RF out if it's deactivated per the manual? I run a coax from my living room set up to my bedroom, currently hooked up to my satellite RF out. Since I run my satellite s-video into the ES20, I figure why not hook up the RF out, but you cannot do that here.

So, why the RF out in the first place if it's dead from the factory?
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post #198 of 549 Old 01-20-2006, 12:44 PM
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Well, the RF-out is not "dead." For poor folk - like me - I only have the coax cable wire coming out of the wall. I hook that to the coax-in on the ES20 and then hook the recorder to my TV through the RCA cables.

Now here's where the coax out is helpful ... I have a "Video/TV" button on my TV. When's its on "Video," I see the ES20 outpt ... When its on "TV," I can watch a different cable channel when I'm recording on the ES20!! (The RF-out connection makes this work.)
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post #199 of 549 Old 01-20-2006, 04:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bagdropper View Post

Hey,

Been reading this thread, didn't see this anywhere, so I'll ask.

Why does this unit have an RF out if it's deactivated per the manual? I run a coax from my living room set up to my bedroom, currently hooked up to my satellite RF out. Since I run my satellite s-video into the ES20, I figure why not hook up the RF out, but you cannot do that here.

So, why the RF out in the first place if it's dead from the factory?


As mentioned, the RF out is not dead. But the manual sure makes it look that way. It passes thru the signal from the RF in. All the time. So I feed this to my VCR where I can record a 2nd program at the same time.

Mike
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post #200 of 549 Old 01-20-2006, 05:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZZen View Post

Anyone seen the black version of this recorder in Canada? Seems everyone just has the silver one. Ugh....the shelves at Futureshop, Best Buy etc, are always full of silver dvd players and recorders. Yucko.

I have never seen a black version at any local stores in the USA. However my son ordered & received one from Crutchfield in USA. So they do exist.

I too wanted black. However the silver version is not too objectionable because about half of the front panel is black.

Mike
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post #201 of 549 Old 01-21-2006, 05:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike99 View Post

As mentioned, the RF out is not dead. But the manual sure makes it look that way. It passes thru the signal from the RF in. All the time. So I feed this to my VCR where I can record a 2nd program at the same time.

Mike

So, what you're saying is it's for passing through whatever comes into the RF In, correct? So it will not pass out whatever DVD you're playing, correct?
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post #202 of 549 Old 01-21-2006, 06:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bagdropper View Post

So, what you're saying is it's for passing through whatever comes into the RF In, correct? So it will not pass out whatever DVD you're playing, correct?


Correct, it will not output the DVD you are playing. Hook it up up to your TV RF input and you will see this.

Mike
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post #203 of 549 Old 01-21-2006, 08:04 AM
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Hello:

Great Thread!


I bought my es-20 about a week ago and all seemed to work well---so well that I riped off the UPC code to send for my rebate!

Well---last night---I had a recording (mon-fri news) set to start at 6am and off at 7am. It turned on---I guess on time---but---when I got up at 8---it was still recording---It did not shut off!

I went in to the disc---it did record my program for an hour---and nothing else appreared on the disc---but it did not shut off! Has not happened since.

I notice there is a firmware update that amoung other things---corrects "weekly recording/region code bug"---whatever that means. I downloaded the patch but have not applied it yet (actually---I am afraid to, since if I screw it up---or the patch screws it up---I cannot return the unit----STUPID ME!!!).

Have you had or heard of this problem?

Just one screwup is unacceptable in an age where DVD recorders are sort of "pushed" on us to keep up with technology.

Funny---my "ld technologyy"10 year old VCR still works flawlessly!
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post #204 of 549 Old 01-21-2006, 09:44 AM
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I don't understand. How could it still be recording but not have anything on the disc for the second hour? Was there a channel programmed into the shedule? I have found certain quirks with the ES 20( freezing ,wouldn't power off once) but have not as yet run across your problem. I don't like to mess with the box or packaging for the 30 days a piece of equipment is returnable so I never cut off UPC codes until then. I was going to return my ES 20 for a fresh one because of the few quirks I encountered but then I saw it had jumped back to 199 from 169 at BB so I feared they would charge me the difference when I got a store credit. So I've kept it and most problems have ironed themselves out. Just couldn't finalize two or three discs out of close to 100 burned. But I wrote that off to the media.
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post #205 of 549 Old 01-21-2006, 12:59 PM
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hey, Dix:

thx for the reply. Have not had a problem since that one episode---so---I figure maybe I did something I should not have!

Anyway---

let me ask you----when you insert a new unformatted -rw--------do you get a messgae to format or do you get an "err" on the front and then have to go into disc management and formay manually?

also: do you know if settings are saved after a power failure?

thx, my friend
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post #206 of 549 Old 01-21-2006, 08:29 PM
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As mentioned in the very first posting, there was a problem with CM Skip when using non- DVD-RAM discs. I have only used RAM, until today. I made a DVD-R and the CM Skip does not work.

Has anyone had luck with CM Skip on DVD-R discs? Or any other non- RAM media?

Mike
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post #207 of 549 Old 01-21-2006, 09:18 PM
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When does the resolution decrease from 720 x 480?
When does the bit rate change?

I thought I read that 4 hr LP was still 720 x 480, but at a reduced bit rate. However I cannot find that information at the moment.

Is there a chart that shows resolution and bit rates for the various recording modes?

At what point does the "FR" time take a nose dive in quality?

Mike
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post #208 of 549 Old 01-21-2006, 09:40 PM
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Well I answered part of my question. I went to Panasonic USA web site, then FAQS, then searched & ended up with this link.

http://panasonic.co.jp/pavc/global/d...e_quality.html

LP is 500 lines resolution, just like SP and XP. But I'm still curious where bit rates take a big decrease.

Mike
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post #209 of 549 Old 01-21-2006, 10:14 PM
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They don't really take a big decrease in a "nonlinear" sense. Not counting the bitrate that you need for the audio portion of the material, the video bitrates correspond to the reciprocal of the duration, i.e., twice the duration (4 hours instead of 2 hours) equates to half the bitrate. Again I will point out that this is not entirely true because the audio portion of the material takes up pretty much the same bitrate regardless of duration. But my point is that if you were to look at bitrates as a function of duration, they would be a smooth curve, starting high at the 1-hour mark (9200Kb/s) and curving at first sharply downward, and then gradually more flat as you moved towards longer durations. Never does that curve have a jump of the kind you are asking about. If anything, the most signicant downward movement of bitrates happens between the 1-hour and 2-hour settings.

What does happen though, is that there is a point along that curve at which there just aren't enough bits per frame (using MPEG2 compression techniques) to "adequately" render the images. That's when the resulting Picture Quality appears to fall of more rapidly. What's "adequate" will depend both on the amount of detail and motion in the specific content involved, and somewhat on the viewer, on their tolerance for compression artifacts. And of course a larger screen will make those artifacts more obvious. Just a wild guess on my part would put it around 3000Kb/s, near the 3-hour setting. But some material may cross that line at closer to the 2-hour setting, some closer to the 4-hour setting, depending on the tolerance of the viewer and of course the quality of the MPEG encoder itself.
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post #210 of 549 Old 01-21-2006, 11:47 PM
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Hi.

I have a cable box on my TV. Because the ES20 does not come with an IR blaster which would change the channel for me in timed recording, I would be stuck with recording only on one channel if I were not home to change the channel on the cable box manually. I went to Circuit City to exchange my ES20S for a DVD recorder that has an IR blaster, but they didn't have anything, so..

I currently have a VCR with a cable controller, which changes the cable box for me so that I can record multiple programs on multiple stations. The cable comes in to the Box, then connects to the VCR Antenna, and the RF out on the VCR connects to the Antenna on the TV. The TV power connects to the Box. This is my current setup and it works fine. Because it records whatever channel is on the cable box, I can record premium channels as well, altho I have to set the box manually for this.

The guys at CC said I could have both the VCR and DVD hooked up at the same time by leaving the current hookup with the VCR exactly as it is, and adding the DVD hookup to it.
This way I could use the VCR when I wanted to, use the DVD when I wanted to, and also (this is odd, I realize) use the VCR to change the channel on my cable box by scheduling a one-minute' program on the VCR, then set the timer recording on the DVD to record the program or movie, and repeat if I wanted another program.

One guy said I should connect the Component cables from the DVD to the VCR and this would enable the DVD player to record whatever the cable box was on because the VCR does this now. But a second guy said I would have to connect the Component cables from the DVD to the TV. It sounds like the first guy is correct, because the VCR controls everything now, but I'm not sure if either one is right.

Can I just add the DVD connection and keep the ability to record either on the VCR or DVD player, whichever I choose. Would the DVD record whatever channel is on the Cable Box? I am not interested in the ability to copy any VHS tapes to the DVD, which is the only connections between the two I've read about

And finally, would it then be possible to record on both the VCR and DVD at the same time (same program)? It seems that I would because they're separate units. I would probably never do this, but I just wondered.

Thanks all. Miriam
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