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post #2971 of 2986 Old 05-12-2014, 05:40 AM
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http://www.meritline.com/verbatim-8x-dl-dvd-plus-r-double-layer-branded-95310---p-18474.aspx?strcoup=MLCX12DN&dealid=24&sectionid=T1&utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=newsletter140512&hq_e=el&hq_m=2879807&hq_l=58&hq_v=111d744405

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post #2972 of 2986 Old 05-12-2014, 06:55 AM
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anyone here have a real life application opinion of the "LTH" discs over the standard ones? Other than Wikipedia stating some French report ...etc..etc
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post #2973 of 2986 Old 05-12-2014, 07:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mickinct View Post

http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B0090WV9XG/ref=dp_olp_new?ie=UTF8&condition=new Why this is not sold here in the states??


If they did I'd snag them up in a NY minute! First they are -R DLs which are as rare as hens teeth in N. America(when you see quality -R DLs they are more than $2 each for Verbatim) and second they are made by Ty(JVC) which we can't even get in N. America(any DL variety). I've seen those discs from Amazon UK but with shipping they are close to the price of Verbatim -R DLs here. Nope, while I'd rather use the -R DLs I'm not going to use Ritek(the only -R DLs we can get close to $1 per) and I'll just stick with the AZO +R DLs I can find in that price range. They burn darn near 100% success and play on all but a few of my devices(old DVD and BD player).

Guess if I were ever in Japan I'd know what I'd be bringing home in my suitcase :D

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post #2974 of 2986 Old 05-12-2014, 07:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billmich View Post

anyone here have a real life application opinion of the "LTH" discs over the standard ones? Other than Wikipedia stating some French report ...etc..etc
The whole LTH disk thing can be swept under the rug -- the chinese killed it, thankfully. Real BD-R disks use a solid-state recording layer that is more stable in use and across manufacturers (especially chinese manufacturers) than a dye-based recording layer. Real BD-R are also more expensive to make -- at least they were in the beginning.

LTH was designed to make "cheaper" BD-R blanks by using a dye instead of the solid-state layer. They could be made in the same equipment used to make dye-based DVD-R. In the beginning they were cheaper. When Verbatim was selling real BD-R for $3/disk, they were also selling LTH for a little under $2/disk.

Couple problems with LTH popped up. Most burners of the time did not support burning LTH. Most players of the time did not support playing LTH. And the death blow -- before LTH could catch on, the chinese collapsed the price structure of real BD-R by offering quality disks based on the more stable solid-state recording layer at around $1/disk -- nearly half the price of dye-based LTH. LTH never really got off the ground -- Verbatim and JVC/T-Y are the only major suppliers of LTH and they are not competitively priced. Verbatim sells real BD-R for only a couple cents/disk more than they sell LTH. A 25 spindle of Verbatim 6x BD-R sells for the same price as a 50 spindle of Optical Quantum 6x BD-R.

Forget about LTH, it is a non-factor in BD-R blanks

All in all it is pretty amazing that we are under $0.50/disk for real BD-R with 5X the capacity of DVD-R. It's like paying under $0.10/disk for quality DVD-R.

jjeff, how would you like to get 5 x 50 disk spindles of DVD-R for $23
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post #2975 of 2986 Old 05-12-2014, 08:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken.F View Post

Ordered. Thanks.
Let us know how they perform for you. In particular, give us the media ID so we can see who actually makes them.

I have a 10pack of Optical Quantum BD-RE that I use for authoring test burns that have been very solid. Would never use BD-RE for archival storage. $14 for 50 BD-RE is an outrageous price, but I simply don't have a need for more BD-RE.

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post #2976 of 2986 Old 05-12-2014, 12:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelson View Post

Let us know how they perform for you. In particular, give us the media ID so we can see who actually makes them.

I have a 10pack of Optical Quantum BD-RE that I use for authoring test burns that have been very solid. Would never use BD-RE for archival storage. $14 for 50 BD-RE is an outrageous price, but I simply don't have a need for more BD-RE.

I'll let you know the MID when they get here. The shipment is originating in CA and being shipped to PA FedEx SmartPost. The the latest activity in the tracking status is "Shipment information sent to FedEx". Most of my Newegg orders come UPS from NJ so they arrive quickly. I'm not holding my breath on this one.

I think a 50 pack of REs will last me a lifetime if only half of them are good ones. I don't plan on using them for long term data storage but I hope the unused blanks have a good shelf life.
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post #2977 of 2986 Old 05-12-2014, 11:42 PM
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A couple of years back, I ordered some TY -R DLs, from somewhere in the US, probably SMS or Meritline. I don't remember how much they cost. I bought them because they were supposedly more friendly with my Pio 640. Supposedly, they would burn faster, and FF faster once burned. Neither proved to be true. Not only that, but I used less than 20 of them, and had one coaster, and one that refused to burn. The rest sit in a drawer. I use Verb +R DLs. exclusively.
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post #2978 of 2986 Old 05-14-2014, 01:05 AM
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I wasn't aware that T-Y ever made -R DL blanks. That's interesting. Since acquiring the JVC name, they used to make a -R DL disk, but it was (almost) never available in the US. I got some from a UK source, but they no longer stock them. frown.gif

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/searchtools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=5391165

As you can see, no longer available.

In my experience using these -R DL disks, they do not burn faster than the +R DL disks from Verbatim, even though the Verbs say they are 2.4x and the JVC T-Ys say they are 8x.

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post #2979 of 2986 Old 05-14-2014, 06:04 AM
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It is odd that +DL took center stage over -DL to the point of near exclusion of -DL in the US market. But then the market for DL in general never really established itself. People are more willing to over-compress their video to fit on an SL disk or split it between two SL disks then to burn it to higher-priced DL. Most DVD recorders did not support burning to DL and people who archived data didn't trust the longevity of DL. I think we'll see the same dynamic played out in the BD-R market. While BD-R (SL) can be had for $0.45/disk, BD-R (DL) is still a bit over $2/disk.

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post #2980 of 2986 Old 05-14-2014, 07:55 AM
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It's a pity because I believe if more people had started using DL DVDs the price would have dropped, resulting in more sales, resulting in lower prices, resulting in more sales. Sounds like as you say, a similar thing is happening with BDs and they will never be cost competitive with SL blanks :( I mean I can see paying 2x for a DL blank but with DVDs anyway DLs are almost 5x the cost of SL blanks :(

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post #2981 of 2986 Old 05-14-2014, 08:30 AM
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This disc cost discussion always amuses me. Doesn't anyone remember the cost of video cassettes? DVDs, even the most expensive DL discs are much cheaper than cassettes used to be (when money was worth more then it is today!) and that would be per unit, per hour of recording time, per inch of shelf space, or any other measure you want to use (per pound? smile.gif). DVDs are much higher quality, and pretty economical if you consider the options that preceded them.

The last time I purchased any media, it was for Verb AZO blanks, for $20 per 100 from Amazon. That's a really good price for excellent media. I have over 2500 blanks on three shelves in my den. I could have put maybe 150 VHS cassettes in the same shelf space.

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Evil is charming and beautiful. It makes you doubt yourself. It asks for one small compromise after another until it whittles you down, and it functions best when no one believes in it.-JOA
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post #2982 of 2986 Old 05-14-2014, 09:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Church AV Guy View Post

I have over 2500 blanks on three shelves in my den. I could have put maybe 150 VHS cassettes in the same shelf space.
I would seriously suggest you stay far, far away from BluRay. Once I burned my first BD-R I suddenly had little use for DVD-R. I have several hundred original T-Y Premiums (bought before the JVC buy-out) I keep trying to figure out what to do with and about 50-60 Verbatim +DL which I may find use for. I've been burning digital photo's to the DVD-R (and making backups of the photos) but that hardly makes a dent.

I can only imagine how perturbed I would be if I had 2500 DVD-R blanks on a shelf that were suddenly obsolete.

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The bitterness of poor quality lasts long after the sweetness of the low price is forgotten . . . life is too short to drink bad wine

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post #2983 of 2986 Old 05-15-2014, 07:17 AM
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Originally Posted by jjeff View Post

It's a pity because I believe if more people had started using DL DVDs the price would have dropped, resulting in more sales, resulting in lower prices, resulting in more sales. Sounds like as you say, a similar thing is happening with BDs and they will never be cost competitive with SL blanks frown.gif I mean I can see paying 2x for a DL blank but with DVDs anyway DLs are almost 5x the cost of SL blanks frown.gif

I was in Amazon and took a quick look at Verbatim prices and was surprised.
Verbatim DVD+DL are selling for $1.14/disk in a 50 pack
Verbatim 6X BD-R are selling for $0.92/disk in a 25 pack

So even Verbatim BD-R are cheaper than DVD+DL.

- kelson h

The bitterness of poor quality lasts long after the sweetness of the low price is forgotten . . . life is too short to drink bad wine

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post #2984 of 2986 Old 05-17-2014, 03:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelson View Post

Let us know how they perform for you. In particular, give us the media ID so we can see who actually makes them.

My Newegg shipment with the $14 RiDATA 25GB BD-RE 50-pack came in today.
MID: RITEK-BW1-001
I've only tried one disc so far and my Pioneer BDR-2209 didn't have any trouble burning it. After formatting it took about 44 minutes to burn a 22GB iso with ImgBurn. The disc plays fine on my Samsung BD-FM59C.

ImgBurn report (Click to show)
15:55:59 ImgBurn Version 2.5.6.0 started!
15:55:59 Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium x64 Edition (6.1, Build 7601 : Service Pack 1)
15:55:59 Total Physical Memory: 6,151,284 KB - Available: 1,837,660 KB
15:55:59 Initialising SPTI...
15:55:59 Searching for SCSI / ATAPI devices...
15:55:59 -> Drive 1 - Info: DTSOFT BDROM 1.05 (E:) (Virtual)
15:55:59 -> Drive 2 - Info: PIONEER BD-RW BDR-209M 1.10 (D:) (SATA)
15:55:59 Found 1 BD-ROM and 1 BD-RE XL!
15:56:15 Operation Started!
15:56:15 Device: [1:0:0] PIONEER BD-RW BDR-209M 1.10 (D:) (SATA)
15:56:15 Media Type: BD-RE (Disc ID: RITEK-BW1-001)
15:56:15 Media Supported Write Speeds: 2x
15:56:15 Quick Erase: No
15:56:15 Format Properly: Yes
15:56:15 Format Size: Preferred
15:56:15 Format With Full Certification: Yes
15:56:15 Format Without Spare Areas: Yes
15:56:15 Erasing Disc...
15:56:16 FormatDisc(FT: 0x31, FST: 0x02) Not Supported!
15:56:16 FormatDisc(FT: 0x31, FST: 0x03) Not Supported!
15:56:39 Operation Successfully Completed! - Duration: 00:00:23
15:56:39 Operation Started!
15:56:39 Device: [1:0:0] PIONEER BD-RW BDR-209M 1.10 (D:) (SATA)
15:56:39 Media Type: BD-RE (Disc ID: RITEK-BW1-001)
15:56:39 Media Supported Write Speeds: 2x
15:56:39 Media Sectors: 12,219,392
15:56:39 BD-RE FastWrite: No
15:56:39 Zeroing Sectors...
16:43:34 Synchronising Cache...
16:43:34 Operation Successfully Completed! - Duration: 00:46:55 - Total Duration: 00:47:18
16:43:34 Average Write Rate: 8,681 KB/s (1.9x)
16:43:35 Operation Started!
16:43:35 Source File: I:\Images\BD Images\SCREAM.iso
16:43:35 Source File Sectors: 11,554,720 (MODE1/2048)
16:43:35 Source File Size: 23,664,066,560 bytes
16:43:35 Source File Volume Identifier: SCREAM
16:43:35 Source File Volume Set Identifier: 5371592A00B04FA0
16:43:35 Source File Application Identifier: BluFab Win v1.0
16:43:35 Source File Implementation Identifier: BluFab
16:43:35 Source File File System(s): UDF (2.50)
16:43:35 Destination Device: [1:0:0] PIONEER BD-RW BDR-209M 1.10 (D:) (SATA)
16:43:35 Destination Media Type: BD-RE (Disc ID: RITEK-BW1-001)
16:43:35 Destination Media Supported Write Speeds: 2x
16:43:35 Destination Media Sectors: 12,219,392
16:43:35 Write Mode: BD
16:43:35 Write Type: DAO
16:43:35 Write Speed: MAX
16:43:35 BD-RE FastWrite: No
16:43:35 Link Size: Auto
16:43:35 Lock Volume: Yes
16:43:35 Test Mode: No
16:43:35 OPC: No
16:43:35 BURN-Proof: Enabled
16:43:35 Write Speed Successfully Set! - Effective: 8,990 KB/s (2x)
16:43:35 Advanced Settings - Optimal Writing Speed: No
16:43:36 Filling Buffer... (40 MB)
16:43:36 Writing LeadIn...
16:43:37 Writing Session 1 of 1... (1 Track, LBA: 0 - 11554719)
16:43:37 Writing Track 1 of 1... (MODE1/2048, LBA: 0 - 11554719)
17:27:44 Synchronising Cache...
17:27:45 Exporting Graph Data...
17:27:45 Graph Data File: C:\Users\Ken\AppData\Roaming\ImgBurn\Graph Data Files\PIONEER_BD-RW_BDR-209M_1.10_SATURDAY-MAY-17-2014_4-43_PM_RITEK-BW1-001_MAX.ibg
17:27:45 Export Successfully Completed!
17:27:45 Operation Successfully Completed! - Duration: 00:44:09
17:27:45 Average Write Rate: 8,733 KB/s (1.9x) - Maximum Write Rate: 9,038 KB/s (2.0x)


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post #2985 of 2986 Old 05-23-2014, 02:25 PM
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post #2986 of 2986 Old 05-23-2014, 09:28 PM
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Not nearly as good a deal as from Amazon for a 25 pack -- $0.92/disk
Even that 10 pack you cite is cheaper at Amazon.

- kelson h

The bitterness of poor quality lasts long after the sweetness of the low price is forgotten . . . life is too short to drink bad wine

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